***Champs v Hammers (H)|Official Match Thread***

[johnny crossan]

All about opinions...

but unbiased ones like ours are preferable

[Mase]

All about opinions...

but unbiased ones like ours are preferable

Hi JC, I used facts to prove my point and you’ve not replied? How come mate?

[johnny crossan]

All about opinions...

but unbiased ones like ours are preferable

Hi JC, I used facts to prove my point and you’ve not replied? How come mate?

I prefer the evidence of my own eyes - admittedly difficult to interpret just before half-time but not as difficult as the leap from "4 bad touches" (one more than Rodri, Gundo, Bernie, Mahrez, Walker, Cancelo, etc btw) to being subbed for gifting possession - nothing to do with right footer for right footer of course.

[Mase]

All about opinions...

but unbiased ones like ours are preferable

Hi JC, I used facts to prove my point and you’ve not replied? How come mate?

I prefer the evidence of my own eyes - admittedly difficult to interpret just before half-time but not as difficult as the leap from "4 bad touches" (one more than Rodri, Gundo, Bernie, Mahrez, Walker, Cancelo, etc btw) to being subbed for gifting possession - nothing to do with right footer for right footer of course.

You might need to look back at the stats as you’ve got them incorrect regarding the players you’ve mentioned.

Fern came on for Sterling so definitely wasn’t a right footer for right footer because Fern didn’t go left-wing.

You and Beefy have your opinions, Carl and Pep have theirs. Ultimately it worked out well and was the right decision to take him off because Fern scored the winner. No one’s opinion is better than anyone else’s as long as Pep gets it right.

Your opinion on a City player can never be unbiased because you’re a City fan.

[johnny crossan]

All about opinions...

but unbiased ones like ours are preferable

Hi JC, I used facts to prove my point and you’ve not replied? How come mate?

I prefer the evidence of my own eyes - admittedly difficult to interpret just before half-time but not as difficult as the leap from "4 bad touches" (one more than Rodri, Gundo, Bernie, Mahrez, Walker, Cancelo, etc btw) to being subbed for gifting possession - nothing to do with right footer for right footer of course.

You might need to look back at the stats as you’ve got them incorrect regarding the players you’ve mentioned.

Fern came on for Sterling so definitely wasn’t a right footer for right footer because Fern didn’t go left-wing.

You and Beefy have your opinions, Carl and Pep have theirs. Ultimately it worked out well and was the right decision to take him off because Fern scored the winner. No one’s opinion is better than anyone else’s as long as Pep gets it right.

Your opinion on a City player can never be unbiased because you’re a City fan.

I prefer to describe my opinions as informed
Jesus replaced Raz on the left btw but please tell me where my stats are incorrect, they were guesses of course...

[stupot]

Definitely all about opinions.
I didn't think Sterling played well yesterday- always seemed to make the wrong decision. Shooting was shit and kept getting tackled..
Gabby did more in his 15 minutes or so down the left than Raz and the 2nd goal was from a lovely move that side.
Unlike some i thought Mahrez did well, made the 1st goal really well and took the disallowed goal really well.
I didn't think Laporte was as bad as some, he got beaten once and was booked but so was Dias. You look at Stones mistake the other night and it was far worse.
Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

[london blue 2]

I thought Raz was no worse than Mahrez to be fair. Yes Mahrez "made the goal" (which was completely fluke, he also hit the post when two players were in place for a tap in). Raz also put Gundo and Jesus 1 on 1 for goal scoring chances, so could quite easily have a "proper" assist or two to his name. Neither were great but I wouldn't say the performance is worth singling out anyone. Another solid team performance where all played their part against a strong opponent.

[Mase]

Definitely all about opinions.
I didn't think Sterling played well yesterday- always seemed to make the wrong decision. Shooting was shit and kept getting tackled..
Gabby did more in his 15 minutes or so down the left than Raz and the 2nd goal was from a lovely move that side.
Unlike some i thought Mahrez did well, made the 1st goal really well and took the disallowed goal really well.
I didn't think Laporte was as bad as some, he got beaten once and was booked but so was Dias. You look at Stones mistake the other night and it was far worse.
Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

I thought Mahrez was decent and always looked a threat. He chose the wrong option when he hit the post but apart from that he didn’t do much wrong.
But even when Mahrez has a poor game he still has that “special moment” in him where he can curl one in from outside the box from absolutely nothing. His first touch is ridiculously good as well, and when we need the front three to keep the ball and protect it then he’s a better option than Sterling, even if it’s just based on that first touch alone.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Definitely all about opinions.
I didn't think Sterling played well yesterday- always seemed to make the wrong decision. Shooting was shit and kept getting tackled..
Gabby did more in his 15 minutes or so down the left than Raz and the 2nd goal was from a lovely move that side.
Unlike some i thought Mahrez did well, made the 1st goal really well and took the disallowed goal really well.
I didn't think Laporte was as bad as some, he got beaten once and was booked but so was Dias. You look at Stones mistake the other night and it was far worse.
Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

About right.

[Tru_Blu]

Definitely all about opinions.
I didn't think Sterling played well yesterday- always seemed to make the wrong decision. Shooting was shit and kept getting tackled..
Gabby did more in his 15 minutes or so down the left than Raz and the 2nd goal was from a lovely move that side.
Unlike some i thought Mahrez did well, made the 1st goal really well and took the disallowed goal really well.
I didn't think Laporte was as bad as some, he got beaten once and was booked but so was Dias. You look at Stones mistake the other night and it was far worse.
Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

I thought Mahrez was decent and always looked a threat. He chose the wrong option when he hit the post but apart from that he didn’t do much wrong.
But even when Mahrez has a poor game he still has that “special moment” in him where he can curl one in from outside the box from absolutely nothing. His first touch is ridiculously good as well, and when we need the front three to keep the ball and protect it then he’s a better option than Sterling, even if it’s just based on that first touch alone.

Mahrez as a winger in this City team is useless, the guy never takes on a player down the wing just passes it backwards, goes down way to easy. One moment in the game he has but its not enough for my liking. I would rather he move on if someone had to go.

[stupot]

Definitely all about opinions.
I didn't think Sterling played well yesterday- always seemed to make the wrong decision. Shooting was shit and kept getting tackled..
Gabby did more in his 15 minutes or so down the left than Raz and the 2nd goal was from a lovely move that side.
Unlike some i thought Mahrez did well, made the 1st goal really well and took the disallowed goal really well.
I didn't think Laporte was as bad as some, he got beaten once and was booked but so was Dias. You look at Stones mistake the other night and it was far worse.
Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

I thought Mahrez was decent and always looked a threat. He chose the wrong option when he hit the post but apart from that he didn’t do much wrong.
But even when Mahrez has a poor game he still has that “special moment” in him where he can curl one in from outside the box from absolutely nothing. His first touch is ridiculously good as well, and when we need the front three to keep the ball and protect it then he’s a better option than Sterling, even if it’s just based on that first touch alone.

Mahrez as a winger in this City team is useless, the guy never takes on a player down the wing just passes it backwards, goes down way to easy. One moment in the game he has but its not enough for my liking. I would rather he move on if someone had to go.

Like i said it's opinions.
I thought he did well yesterday and against PSG he was great. Made the winning goal superbly and like Mase said his 1st touch is just ridiculous.

[patrickblue]

Definitely all about opinions.
I didn't think Sterling played well yesterday- always seemed to make the wrong decision. Shooting was shit and kept getting tackled..
Gabby did more in his 15 minutes or so down the left than Raz and the 2nd goal was from a lovely move that side.
Unlike some i thought Mahrez did well, made the 1st goal really well and took the disallowed goal really well.
I didn't think Laporte was as bad as some, he got beaten once and was booked but so was Dias. You look at Stones mistake the other night and it was far worse.
Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

I thought Mahrez was decent and always looked a threat. He chose the wrong option when he hit the post but apart from that he didn’t do much wrong.
But even when Mahrez has a poor game he still has that “special moment” in him where he can curl one in from outside the box from absolutely nothing. His first touch is ridiculously good as well, and when we need the front three to keep the ball and protect it then he’s a better option than Sterling, even if it’s just based on that first touch alone.

Mahrez as a winger in this City team is useless, the guy never takes on a player down the wing just passes it backwards, goes down way to easy. One moment in the game he has but its not enough for my liking. I would rather he move on if someone had to go.

He's not really a winger in the traditional sense, much more an inside forward, as tbh is whoever is playing left wing at the time.
The idea I imagine is the full backs play the wingers traditional role. This works well in a side that's disciplined to track back, and can maintain a high work rate.

[johnny crossan]

...Thought Cancelo was awesome again along with Rodri.
Declan Rice was superb, I'd love him at City.

You are not alone
Rodri has become Manchester City’s Mr Reliable – even in the snow

MANCHESTER, ENGLAND - NOVEMBER 28: Fernandinho of Manchester City celebrates after scoring their side's second goal with Rodrigo during the Premier League match between Manchester City and West Ham United at Etihad Stadium on November 28, 2021 in Manchester, England. (Photo by Naomi Baker/Getty Images)

By Sam Lee Nov 29, 2021 16


This wasn’t Rodri’s most eye-catching game. Maybe that was last Sunday when he unleashed one of those effortless rockets into the Everton net, or afternoons like the one at Stamford Bridge in September when he was racing back and picking N’Golo Kante’s pocket.

But in the 2-1 win against West Ham, on a day when the snow made things difficult and some of his team-mates were sloppier than usual, Rodri put in one of those steady performances that are becoming more and more appreciated.

“The season is so long, 11 months, so there are high and lows,” Pep Guardiola said in October when discussing the 25-year-old. “What is important to be a holding midfield is to be always stable: 7, 8, 7, 8. It’s not nice to have a big 10 performance and then a 2 or 3. Maybe wingers or strikers can do it but for a holding midfielder it’s not good.”

And that was the case in Rodri’s first year or so at the club; there were signs of his technical brilliance (another rocket at Burnley) and he was tidy enough on the ball. But too often the nuts and bolts of the holding midfielder’s game weren’t there.

Like a midfield Claudio Bravo, you can be good on the ball all you like, but other things — like making saves, or tackles — are more obvious barometers of success, certainly in British football culture. Especially when the all-action Fernandinho set the standards for so long.

City knew they would need to be patient: from the very start, they expected Rodri to take time to adjust to their game, to know when to pressure his opponent and when to sit back. The problem for him during 2019-20, and the start of 2020-21, was that his new team-mates did him no favours, opening up huge spaces on the pitch and exposing him — and those flaws — to counter-attacks.

He was thrown in at the deep end and when Guardiola’s attempts to tighten things up amounted to an extra holding midfielder and a more risk-averse approach with play funnelled down the middle, there weren’t a huge amount of passing lanes open for him, either.

Rodri was doing less of the things he could do well, and more of the things he couldn’t.

That’s changed now: the team around him is better and he is better, too.

“Now he’s so stable,” Guardiola continued. “He’s always paying attention and he’s realising what we are looking for because sometimes you need time to understand what we are looking for.

“We are more than satisfied. We knew it when we went to him at Atletico, he’s growing and hopefully, he can be a better player. It depends on him and if he opens his mind and understands what he has to do, because he still has the margin to be a better player and hopefully we can help him.”



One of the ways City have helped him is by tightening up all over the pitch, particularly in midfield. With Bernardo Silva playing more and more in midfield alongside Ilkay Gundogan, Rodri has protection on either side of him. When Kevin De Bruyne plays, his role in the team is more forward-thinking and by definition, he leaves spaces behind him, which Rodri has to cover.

Another trick, too: starting in pre-season, Guardiola asked his left-back to tuck right inside next to the holding midfielder when the goalkeeper and centre-backs have the ball. For one thing, it opens up a passing lane out wide, because it attracts a wide opposition player centrally. It also means that if City give the ball away at that point, the midfield is well stocked and counter-attacks can be shunted out wide and slowed down.

Things like that are helping Rodri’s natural abilities thrive, the ones that were already at a high level when he arrived in 2019.

On the pitch, he basically lives under constant pressure: last season, 84 per cent of all of his passes were made under pressure from at least one opponent. When teams try to press City these days, they generally try to stop the ball going to Rodri, rather than press him when he has it.



The graphic above also highlights how his team-mates look for him when in trouble (pressure-relieving passes received) and his ability to find team-mates in space behind a defensive line (line-breaking passes).

Things all clicked into place last season as City improved around Christmas, and that has continued into the current campaign. Squad morale appears to be high at the moment, with more team meals and other bonding exercises permitted by easing COVID-19 restrictions, and Rodri has settled well into life in Manchester city centre.

On Sunday, Guardiola spent much of the first half raging at Ruben Dias, Kyle Walker and Aymeric Laporte for some sloppy play at the back that gave West Ham a clear sight of City’s box. There were spells when nobody seemed to have control of the game, and not even Bernardo or Gundogan could do much to get their foot on the ball and get things in order.

Gundogan got man of the match (when the prize was awarded his goal was the only one of the game), and he did very well, but even he had a short spell when his wayward passes put City under a bit of pressure.

Rodri, by comparison, was solid throughout. Not just solid week after week, as Guardiola noted earlier this season, but minute by minute.



Guardiola’s always had high hopes for a man who, quite simply, plays the game a bit like he did.

“Every day I’m more convinced that this deal will be one of the best this club has done in the last years,” the former Barcelona midfielder said just weeks after Rodri’s arrival. “He will be an incredible holding midfielder for this club, for English football, for many years.”

It took a bit of time, and Guardiola insists there is more to come, but these days it’s much easier to appreciate what Rodri brings to the table.

[patrickblue]

Truth is, we're well spoilt. Not so long ago Sterling would have been a club legend, like Kinky.
As for players like Cancelo and Rodri, they;re both superb players and I've never really understood the flak they used to get.
People complain Cancelo can't defend, and while that's untrue, the whole point is that's not really what he primarily there for.
Up till recently, loads were saying Rodri was slow, when he's the opposite, one of those rare players who can do everything without appearing rushed.
Don't even start me on Gundo and Mahrez.

[sheblue]

Truth is, we're well spoilt. Not so long ago Sterling would have been a club legend, like Kinky.
As for players like Cancelo and Rodri, they;re both superb players and I've never really understood the flak they used to get.
People complain Cancelo can't defend, and while that's untrue, the whole point is that's not really what he primarily there for.
Up till recently, loads were saying Rodri was slow, when he's the opposite, one of those rare players who can do everything without appearing rushed.
Don't even start me on Gundo and Mahrez.

Rodri has improved an awful lot on last season. In fact he looks like a different player. However it did take time and the stuff said about him last season was by and large true and appropriate at that time.
Re Sterling, I thought his performances in the last few games have improved, but many like kicking people when they are down, so the constant river of negativity is understandable.
Cancelo, like Rodri, looks a different player.

[Mase]

Truth is, we're well spoilt. Not so long ago Sterling would have been a club legend, like Kinky.
As for players like Cancelo and Rodri, they;re both superb players and I've never really understood the flak they used to get.
People complain Cancelo can't defend, and while that's untrue, the whole point is that's not really what he primarily there for.
Up till recently, loads were saying Rodri was slow, when he's the opposite, one of those rare players who can do everything without appearing rushed.
Don't even start me on Gundo and Mahrez.

Rodri has improved an awful lot on last season. In fact he looks like a different player. However it did take time and the stuff said about him last season was by and large true and appropriate at that time.
Re Sterling, I thought his performances in the last few games have improved, but many like kicking people when they are down, so the constant river of negativity is understandable.
Cancelo, like Rodri, looks a different player.

This is 100% true. We can’t pretend that Rodri and Cancelo are playing the same as previous seasons and people were just being negative with them for no reason. They’ve drastically improved. Cancelo I always liked (probably the tattoos), but Rodri has been outstanding this season and has grown on me.

Gundo and Mahrez came and weren’t great, but again, they’ve grown on me and I want them in the team more often than not. That’s because they’ve worked hard and they’re both now delivering for the team - which is all we can ask.

[patrickblue]

Truth is, we're well spoilt. Not so long ago Sterling would have been a club legend, like Kinky.
As for players like Cancelo and Rodri, they;re both superb players and I've never really understood the flak they used to get.
People complain Cancelo can't defend, and while that's untrue, the whole point is that's not really what he primarily there for.
Up till recently, loads were saying Rodri was slow, when he's the opposite, one of those rare players who can do everything without appearing rushed.
Don't even start me on Gundo and Mahrez.

Rodri has improved an awful lot on last season. In fact he looks like a different player. However it did take time and the stuff said about him last season was by and large true and appropriate at that time.
Re Sterling, I thought his performances in the last few games have improved, but many like kicking people when they are down, so the constant river of negativity is understandable.
Cancelo, like Rodri, looks a different player.

I know what you're saying, but I do think you and many others are pretty selective when you look back. Both Rodri and Cancelo are both hugely improved to the point they're approaching perfection in what they do.
But last season they were being written off by many as not good enough, especially when the team had a bad result. All a lot ever seemed to see was when they got things wrong.
As for Sterling, I wasn't particularly singing his praises, just pointing out how much expectation levels have gone up, hence the spoilt comment.
Actually though, Sterling went from hero to zero almost instantaneously. A few seasons back you'd get a torrent of abuse on here if you suggested Sterling wasn't the second coming, and there was no "He's ok" period, it just went straight into slagging.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Truth is, we're well spoilt. Not so long ago Sterling would have been a club legend, like Kinky.
As for players like Cancelo and Rodri, they;re both superb players and I've never really understood the flak they used to get.
People complain Cancelo can't defend, and while that's untrue, the whole point is that's not really what he primarily there for.
Up till recently, loads were saying Rodri was slow, when he's the opposite, one of those rare players who can do everything without appearing rushed.
Don't even start me on Gundo and Mahrez.

Rodri has improved an awful lot on last season. In fact he looks like a different player. However it did take time and the stuff said about him last season was by and large true and appropriate at that time.
Re Sterling, I thought his performances in the last few games have improved, but many like kicking people when they are down, so the constant river of negativity is understandable.
Cancelo, like Rodri, looks a different player.

I know what you're saying, but I do think you and many others are pretty selective when you look back. Both Rodri and Cancelo are both hugely improved to the point they're approaching perfection in what they do.
But last season they were being written off by many as not good enough, especially when the team had a bad result. All a lot ever seemed to see was when they got things wrong.
As for Sterling, I wasn't particularly singing his praises, just pointing out how much expectation levels have gone up, hence the spoilt comment.
Actually though, Sterling went from hero to zero almost instantaneously. A few seasons back you'd get a torrent of abuse on here if you suggested Sterling wasn't the second coming, and there was no "He's ok" period, it just went straight into slagging.

It’s always good to bypass the intermediate and get straight to the point )