Changes, if any, to football?

[nottsblue]

So no football for yet another International break. Following on from an article on the BBC this week about improving the game, i thought it might make for an interesting thread.

I rather suspect the BBC article was driven by the furore over the dippers disallowed goal, but it did spark the debate

Does football need more change? VAR was the last big change and arguably it hasn't been a huge success as there are increasing calls to remove it.

Should we simply scrap VAR and go back to how it was? Referees and linesman decisions are final. There will be errors of course but the game will flow better.

I'd personally like to amend the way time is officiated. I wouldn't mind the idea of two halves of 30 minutes actual play time. With the clock stopped when the ball is dead, (throw ins, corners, goal kicks, fouls). Players can then take as long as they like then and it won't matter. Relatively straightforward to implement and manage.

I'd also scrap offside completely. Most controversy is about offside and this, though seemingly extreme, would eliminate it. Also, play would be stretched more alleviating congestion in the middle third. And surely it would lead to more goal chances and goals; ie more excitement which is kind of the point of the game.

Any other thoughts good people?

[aladdinblue]

I agree with a lot of what you've said but just want to put my own view on VAR and the offside rule.

VAR would be a lot better if it was used properly, as a support to the on-field referee instead of being some kind of ivory towered arbiter poking its nose in where it's not really needed. I really like the way VAR can flag something the referee may not have seen, though, and invite him to check replays of any contentious shithousery etc.

The offside rule, for me, should be put back to how it used to be where you had to be behind the defender when the ball was played or (dare I say it) even have clear daylight between them. All this measuring and endless replays is tedious and has ruined things for a lot of people who used to enjoy the game. Scrapping the offside rule completely would end up in chaos, with scores of 20-19 perhaps becoming commonplace. Not sure I would want that if I'm honest despite the obvious entertainment value.

I would love to see a clock counting down the time and have it halted whenever the referee stops play. I fail to see why that can't be implemented in the PL and it would solve some - though not all - of the problems we see week in, week out.

Just my tuppence-worth seeing as I don't post very often these days.

[BlueinBosnia]

I'd personally like to amend the way time is officiated. I wouldn't mind the idea of two halves of 30 minutes actual play time. With the clock stopped when the ball is dead, (throw ins, corners, goal kicks, fouls). Players can then take as long as they like then and it won't matter. Relatively straightforward to implement and manage.

I can see the merits to this, but it would never happen. Lower down the leagues, timekeepers would be too resource-intensive, as you'd need multiple timekeepers for when the ref calls things back, etc., while further up the pyramid it would play merry hell with (the timing of) advertising/TV schedules, so it wouldn't be in organizers' best interests.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

No changes for me. Leave the game alone.

[Im_Spartacus]

I know there would be a lot of unintended consequences to removing the offside rule, but in reality at the moment it really feels like the rule has grown arms and legs that weren't intended.

The original intent of the rule was about goal-hanging, and the tactical shifts if it removed would definitely add new pressure on defenders to counter the attacking team. For example, you could have a 'runner' as a team role...... the fittest centre forward on earth dragging round a defender and wearing them out - so it would definitely change the game, but in time the game would adapt.

But in reality, offside was never about whether some cunt's earlobe was offside and the rule as it is officiated today is getting really fucked up by introducing VAR to scrutinise, but then still applying vague/subjective rules around interfering with play, which makes the whole premise of VAR pointless. A 3 inch head start may be technically offside and our ability to call that today is impressive, but is that really the spirit of what offside was about - I don't think it is about showcasing the accuracy of technology which is what it's become.

I think I'd be tempted to agree about fucking offside off - the game today is different to the 1920s, players are fitter for a start, and the ability to develop data driven tactics would be very interesting to see.

[Indianablue]

I know there would be a lot of unintended consequences to removing the offside rule, but in reality at the moment it really feels like the rule has grown arms and legs that weren't intended.

The original intent of the rule was about goal-hanging, and the tactical shifts if it removed would definitely add new pressure on defenders to counter the attacking team. For example, you could have a 'runner' as a team role...... the fittest centre forward on earth dragging round a defender and wearing them out - so it would definitely change the game, but in time the game would adapt.

But in reality, offside was never about whether some cunt's earlobe was offside and the rule as it is officiated today is getting really fucked up by introducing VAR to scrutinise, but then still applying vague/subjective rules around interfering with play, which makes the whole premise of VAR pointless. A 3 inch head start may be technically offside and our ability to call that today is impressive, but is that really the spirit of what offside was about - I don't think it is about showcasing the accuracy of technology which is what it's become.

I think I'd be tempted to agree about fucking offside off - the game today is different to the 1920s, players are fitter for a start, and the ability to develop data driven tactics would be very interesting to see.

After last nights interpretations of the rules
Offside i'd say offside needs to be clear distance between feet of last defender and that of attacker

Handball - if it hits your hand/arm below middleof bicep, its handball , remove natural position or accidental interpretation it's too vague

[PeterParker]

There was a thread here a while back about Corruption.

That is what it is. Football can get fucked for all I care, has lost everything that made it great.

[Im_Spartacus]

I know there would be a lot of unintended consequences to removing the offside rule, but in reality at the moment it really feels like the rule has grown arms and legs that weren't intended.

The original intent of the rule was about goal-hanging, and the tactical shifts if it removed would definitely add new pressure on defenders to counter the attacking team. For example, you could have a 'runner' as a team role...... the fittest centre forward on earth dragging round a defender and wearing them out - so it would definitely change the game, but in time the game would adapt.

But in reality, offside was never about whether some cunt's earlobe was offside and the rule as it is officiated today is getting really fucked up by introducing VAR to scrutinise, but then still applying vague/subjective rules around interfering with play, which makes the whole premise of VAR pointless. A 3 inch head start may be technically offside and our ability to call that today is impressive, but is that really the spirit of what offside was about - I don't think it is about showcasing the accuracy of technology which is what it's become.

I think I'd be tempted to agree about fucking offside off - the game today is different to the 1920s, players are fitter for a start, and the ability to develop data driven tactics would be very interesting to see.

After last nights interpretations of the rules
Offside i'd say offside needs to be clear distance between feet of last defender and that of attacker

Handball - if it hits your hand/arm below middleof bicep, its handball , remove natural position or accidental interpretation it's too vague

I think this weekend's happenings perfectly illustrate why VAR doesn't work in it's current iteration

We are seeing fundamental distortion of purpose. The offside law was a moral and tactical safeguard, designed to prevent goal-hanging and preserve the integrity of contest, not to measure anatomical pixels in pursuit of scientific certainty.

The original intent was simple: no player should gain an unfair positional advantage by waiting beyond the defensive line. The question it sought to answer was qualitative: has the attacker positioned themselves in a way that undermines the contest?

What was once a rule designed to achieve fairness has been re-engineered into a problem of precision engineering.

The sport now behaves as if a 3cm margin materially alters competitive equity. It does not. No meaningful advantage is created by the attacker’s boot being marginally ahead of the defender’s shoulder by the length of a thumbnail. Yet the modern framework treats that sliver as decisive. This is not progress. It is regulatory overreach by technology.

In any normal system of governance, proportionality matters. Regulation must be fit for purpose. The harm being addressed should justify the intensity of control applied. Football has failed this test. VAR, in its current incarnation, has become a solution over-optimised for a problem that is fundamentally human, fluid and contextual.

The law exists to prevent imbalance. But the present application seeks perfection where the game only requires reasonableness. It confuses fairness with mathematical purity.

What we are seeing is the classic failure of technocratic logic: when a system is given the capacity to measure something with microscopic accuracy, it develops an irrational obsession with doing so, even when the output no longer serves the original objective. The tool begins to dictate the rule, rather than the rule defining the tool’s role.

Offside should not be judged on whether a player is 2 or 3 centimetres beyond an invisible line in a freeze-frame selected by a human operator (which at weekend was the wrong frame anyway). A more rational interpretation would return to first principles:

* Did the player gain a meaningful positional advantage?
* Did their position distort the defensive structure?
* Did it materially influence the fairness of the contest?

Those questions cannot be answered by millimetres the guy would have scored whether he was 3cm onside or offside, the outcome would have been no different - precision has become detached from purpose

[Mase]

Thought I'd already posted but can't find it.

Every week the 5 shittest refs (as voted for by fans) get put into a Hunger Games/Battle Royale style competition where they have to kill each other off until one is left.

[sheblue]

Less match rigging?

[Scatman]

I know there would be a lot of unintended consequences to removing the offside rule, but in reality at the moment it really feels like the rule has grown arms and legs that weren't intended.

The original intent of the rule was about goal-hanging, and the tactical shifts if it removed would definitely add new pressure on defenders to counter the attacking team. For example, you could have a 'runner' as a team role...... the fittest centre forward on earth dragging round a defender and wearing them out - so it would definitely change the game, but in time the game would adapt.

But in reality, offside was never about whether some cunt's earlobe was offside and the rule as it is officiated today is getting really fucked up by introducing VAR to scrutinise, but then still applying vague/subjective rules around interfering with play, which makes the whole premise of VAR pointless. A 3 inch head start may be technically offside and our ability to call that today is impressive, but is that really the spirit of what offside was about - I don't think it is about showcasing the accuracy of technology which is what it's become.

I think I'd be tempted to agree about fucking offside off - the game today is different to the 1920s, players are fitter for a start, and the ability to develop data driven tactics would be very interesting to see.

After last nights interpretations of the rules
Offside i'd say offside needs to be clear distance between feet of last defender and that of attacker

Handball - if it hits your hand/arm below middleof bicep, its handball , remove natural position or accidental interpretation it's too vague

I think this weekend's happenings perfectly illustrate why VAR doesn't work in it's current iteration

We are seeing fundamental distortion of purpose. The offside law was a moral and tactical safeguard, designed to prevent goal-hanging and preserve the integrity of contest, not to measure anatomical pixels in pursuit of scientific certainty.

The original intent was simple: no player should gain an unfair positional advantage by waiting beyond the defensive line. The question it sought to answer was qualitative: has the attacker positioned themselves in a way that undermines the contest?

What was once a rule designed to achieve fairness has been re-engineered into a problem of precision engineering.

The sport now behaves as if a 3cm margin materially alters competitive equity. It does not. No meaningful advantage is created by the attacker’s boot being marginally ahead of the defender’s shoulder by the length of a thumbnail. Yet the modern framework treats that sliver as decisive. This is not progress. It is regulatory overreach by technology.

In any normal system of governance, proportionality matters. Regulation must be fit for purpose. The harm being addressed should justify the intensity of control applied. Football has failed this test. VAR, in its current incarnation, has become a solution over-optimised for a problem that is fundamentally human, fluid and contextual.

The law exists to prevent imbalance. But the present application seeks perfection where the game only requires reasonableness. It confuses fairness with mathematical purity.

What we are seeing is the classic failure of technocratic logic: when a system is given the capacity to measure something with microscopic accuracy, it develops an irrational obsession with doing so, even when the output no longer serves the original objective. The tool begins to dictate the rule, rather than the rule defining the tool’s role.

Offside should not be judged on whether a player is 2 or 3 centimetres beyond an invisible line in a freeze-frame selected by a human operator (which at weekend was the wrong frame anyway). A more rational interpretation would return to first principles:

* Did the player gain a meaningful positional advantage?
* Did their position distort the defensive structure?
* Did it materially influence the fairness of the contest?

Those questions cannot be answered by millimetres the guy would have scored whether he was 3cm onside or offside, the outcome would have been no different - precision has become detached from purpose

In other words it was not offside?

[Im_Spartacus]

I know there would be a lot of unintended consequences to removing the offside rule, but in reality at the moment it really feels like the rule has grown arms and legs that weren't intended.

The original intent of the rule was about goal-hanging, and the tactical shifts if it removed would definitely add new pressure on defenders to counter the attacking team. For example, you could have a 'runner' as a team role...... the fittest centre forward on earth dragging round a defender and wearing them out - so it would definitely change the game, but in time the game would adapt.

But in reality, offside was never about whether some cunt's earlobe was offside and the rule as it is officiated today is getting really fucked up by introducing VAR to scrutinise, but then still applying vague/subjective rules around interfering with play, which makes the whole premise of VAR pointless. A 3 inch head start may be technically offside and our ability to call that today is impressive, but is that really the spirit of what offside was about - I don't think it is about showcasing the accuracy of technology which is what it's become.

I think I'd be tempted to agree about fucking offside off - the game today is different to the 1920s, players are fitter for a start, and the ability to develop data driven tactics would be very interesting to see.

After last nights interpretations of the rules
Offside i'd say offside needs to be clear distance between feet of last defender and that of attacker

Handball - if it hits your hand/arm below middleof bicep, its handball , remove natural position or accidental interpretation it's too vague

I think this weekend's happenings perfectly illustrate why VAR doesn't work in it's current iteration

We are seeing fundamental distortion of purpose. The offside law was a moral and tactical safeguard, designed to prevent goal-hanging and preserve the integrity of contest, not to measure anatomical pixels in pursuit of scientific certainty.

The original intent was simple: no player should gain an unfair positional advantage by waiting beyond the defensive line. The question it sought to answer was qualitative: has the attacker positioned themselves in a way that undermines the contest?

What was once a rule designed to achieve fairness has been re-engineered into a problem of precision engineering.

The sport now behaves as if a 3cm margin materially alters competitive equity. It does not. No meaningful advantage is created by the attacker’s boot being marginally ahead of the defender’s shoulder by the length of a thumbnail. Yet the modern framework treats that sliver as decisive. This is not progress. It is regulatory overreach by technology.

In any normal system of governance, proportionality matters. Regulation must be fit for purpose. The harm being addressed should justify the intensity of control applied. Football has failed this test. VAR, in its current incarnation, has become a solution over-optimised for a problem that is fundamentally human, fluid and contextual.

The law exists to prevent imbalance. But the present application seeks perfection where the game only requires reasonableness. It confuses fairness with mathematical purity.

What we are seeing is the classic failure of technocratic logic: when a system is given the capacity to measure something with microscopic accuracy, it develops an irrational obsession with doing so, even when the output no longer serves the original objective. The tool begins to dictate the rule, rather than the rule defining the tool’s role.

Offside should not be judged on whether a player is 2 or 3 centimetres beyond an invisible line in a freeze-frame selected by a human operator (which at weekend was the wrong frame anyway). A more rational interpretation would return to first principles:

* Did the player gain a meaningful positional advantage?
* Did their position distort the defensive structure?
* Did it materially influence the fairness of the contest?

Those questions cannot be answered by millimetres the guy would have scored whether he was 3cm onside or offside, the outcome would have been no different - precision has become detached from purpose

In other words it was not offside?

Assuming they had chosen the correct frame and applied the rule correctly, it's clearly offside.

But I'm not arsed about whether it was on or offside, I'm more arsed that we're even talking about it. The games fucked because VAR fundamentally can't answer the question of whether the attacking player gained an unfair advantage by being 5cm further forwards - in which case we've lost sight of why the offside rule exists in the first place.

[branny]

Simplify the scrutiny of offside when it comes to var. No drawing of lines, which as we have seen can be manipulated. If it's that close that the var can't look at a still the moment the ball is played and distinguish whether it's on or off without drawing lines then the benefit of the doubt goes with the attacker.