Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

You can try to make early(ish) comparisons but they can be skewed with all sorts of statistical type rubbish. We are doing well in Europe, well maybe but we are not out of the league part yet. We have played 4 of the major teams in the prem already ( Liverpool really!) but they have all been at home.

Let's just leave it a while longer , at least till after Christmas , before judging.It could all pick up in the next 3 games as we secure qualification in Europe , beat WBA and the Scum or we could get poor results in all 3 games and the picture is 100% different.

I know that a call for patience is wise. It has usually been the view I've taken in the past. I point to three decades of constant changes resulting only in constant failures. In the main I think it brings problems only.
However, for some reason, I simply have a feeling that Mancini isn't going to be a success for us. I like him, I just think he isn't going to achieve for us. It really set in for me when we played for a useless point at Arsenal last season. He actually set out that day to leave us in a bad position when we had a free stab at a depleted Arse team. Staggering, truly staggering. It says everything about him. He will always be negative I fear. We can talk about overlapping full backs and fluid formations, but I suspect we will never be entertaining and dangerous while he is in charge. And this is such a golden opportunity for City that I just feel that we should ditch somebody who isn't gonna do it, and stop wasting time, especially as there seems to be a time factor involved in the financial rules side. We can't let this chance slip by.
I could be loads off the mark, it wouldn't be the first time, I hope I'm wrong, I really do. But unusually I find myself in the "-------(insert name here) Out!" camp

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I certainly didn't 'love' Hughes. I didn't want him sacked though. But that's what happened so we live with it. I also appreciate the point that comparisons are pointless in many ways.
However, the comparison is interesting if you use the point at which Hughes ran out of time as the threshold of tolerance for our owners. It maybe that they use different factors with Mancini, but on results alone Bobby is walking a fine line.

Like I said earlier, I think he IS walking a fine line. I'm almost 100% certain that their one and only aim for this season is top 4. If he gets us there, he will probably stay. If we are out he will be sacked. Probably regardless if he wins us something.

[avoidconfusion]

I was neither a fan of Mark Hughes nor am I particularly impressed by Mancini but either way, sacking the manager AGAIN would be an incredibly dumb mistake and I really hope the club will not sack Mancini after just one season. City will never win anything if they keep sacking managers.

I mean if they sack Mancini, what then? Who could they even bring in that is better than Mancini? Rijkaard? Don't make me laugh, I do not even understand how Rijkaard could be rated as a manager at all, my Grandmother could have probably won the League with the Barca team he managed.

I really do not see a better manager than Mancini available at the moment. O'Neil would be way out of his depth at City and I think the same would be the case with Moyes.

And even if they find a new manager who is maybe better, what then? Will the squad be completely changed AGAIN, and another 200m spent?

[mcfc1632]

Not aimed at any individual - just a general observation....

I think that this thread was brought back up in a simply light-hearted way – just to point out some of the stuff that was previously said at a time when some on here were incredibly vociferous about the (at the time) incumbent CITY manager – a reflection that things are quite comparable now might just provide some ‘food for thought’ for those that were particularly aggressive and felt the need to pigeon hole other CITY fans with labels such as ‘Hughes lovers / lickers’ etc

It will be interesting (and perhaps a bit amusing) though to see if the comparisons are rejected – and if so on what basis – I mean if its just out of hand rejection – and not because of lots of factors can render comparisons valid / invalid – but this is (and was) always true

Especially, it will be a bit amusing if some of the same people that rattled out arguments, stats, comparisons etc to rubbish the previously incumbent CITY manager last year now end up refuting things and essentially start using the same sort of comments previously used by the then supporters of the incumbent CITY manager last year to defend the Mancini position.

....and I mean this light-heartedly – Hughes is dead – long live Mancini for me – but we were never really Hughes lovers, lickers etc – just CITY fans supporting all things CITY – including the manager


I just hope for everyone's sanity that we do not end up lying 6th with a good chance of finishing the season in the top 4 in a few weeks!! - only joking!!!

[john68]

I have always taken the view that the road to where we want to be would be a long and sometimes very hard road. I considered that Hughes had us moving in the right direction and that given time, Hughes would have surmounted our problems, rectified our weaknesses and eventually succeed.

I thought Hughes was sacked because far too early, mainly because it was believed he would fail to ensure we would qualify for the CL, as it turned out we eventually failed anyway.

My view hasn't changed on the time it might take for us to reach our destination. I have never believed that money always equals success, there are far too many other factors to be considered. Money does however allow us to rectify mistakes but that will take time.

Far too many times we have gone so far down the road, only to abort the mission part way. Just for once, can we not panic? Just for once can we be a bit unCitylike and try another tack? Just for once can we sit tight, hold our nerve, ignore the gutter tabloid media pressure exerted against us? just for once can we accept that it will take time, there will be setbacks, it will not all be fun and celebrations and just see what happens...WE MAY BE VERY PLEASANTLY SURPRISED.....eventually!!!!

[mcfc1632]

I am with you John - I hated the thought of sacking Reid!!!

I now want wholehearted support for Mancini - just wonder though if some of those really aggressive people of a year ago might just find the humility to think a bit along the lines "whoops - perhaps I should not have been so OTT....." - and wonder further if they will be able to bring themselves to be big and 'fess up'

And I really am meaning this only light-heartedly....

[BobKowalski]

I am with you John - I hated the thought of sacking Reid!!!

I now want wholehearted support for Mancini - just wonder though if some of those really aggressive people of a year ago might just find the humility to think a bit along the lines "whoops - perhaps I should not have been so OTT....." - and wonder further if they will be able to bring themselves to be big and 'fess up'

And I really am meaning this only light-heartedly....

Well in a similar light-hearted fashion :)

I was in favour of sacking Hughes albeit I would have wanted it done in the summer of '09 or '10. Mid season is not the time to sack managers unless you are bottom of the table with no hope in sight which was not the case.

My reasoning was simple in that I always felt that he was out of his depth. Hughes is not a top 4 manager. Neither is Steve Bruce, Fat Sam, MoN, Moyes, Hogdson et al. I was not against Hughes prior to the takeover because under Mad Frank I felt Hughes was an excellent choice. We needed a manager who could steady us and see us through what I thought could be our most perilous time.

Once the takeover happened and the scale and enormity of the project became apparent I felt Hughes was pretty much doomed. My only surprise was that ADUG gave him 18 months. Whether this was for PR reasons or they listened to Cook or simply Hughes talked a good game and they liked what they heard I have no idea.

I also said long ago that we would know when Sheikh Mansour had his manager of choice at the helm when the Sheikh finally turned up for a game and give it his personal blessing. I also think Tevez will stay at City because he had his hair cut similar to Mancini. I like looking for the little things.

[mcfc1632]

Good answer Bob - with hindsight I wish that ADUG had acted sooner.

I was against getting rid of Hughes in mid-season and was in general against more change of management - but if ADUG was not going to be 'for' Hughes - I wish they had made the change in the previous close-season.

Good and well reasoned response - lots of logic - which is of course means (without putting words in your mouth I hope) that you can probably appreciate the concerns at the time for those of us who were simply anxious about more change / ill-thought through change? Concerns equally founded in good logic and well reasoned thinking - with lots of relevant experience I would suggest.

The issue that some of had at the time was the aggressive labelling of us as being 'Hughes lovers / lickers' etc - when in fact we had reasons for concerns as based in logic at least to a level similar to those you put forward - hopefully you can see why we were 'put out' to be so labelled at the time (by others)

I just thought it would be interesting to see (and I genuinely mean in a light-hearted manner) if those who were so 'passionate' about getting rid of Hughes that they were willing to rip into fellow blues could bring themselves to 'fess up' to their (at the time) extremism - and (hopefully without being to sycophantic) let me say that I am not surprised to see a well reasoned response from your good self - I will be intrigued to see other responses though - in a light-hearted way

As an example of similar thinking - I fully admit to having been very much on Micah's case - just sooooo pissed off with him being a world class jogger and showing that he has no football brain etc........................

So - if a year from now I find that he has stepped up big time and holds the RB slot by right etc - I will have to have a pair and say something like - "....fuck me I got that totally wrong.... - I spoke too quickly - I made the wrong comparisons etc etc - what a dickhead I was etc" - I am just wondering is some of the anti-Hughes extremists of a year ago can bring themselves to say something like "... fuck me - I cannot believe that a year on - with another £150m spent - we really have not moved on much beyond where Hughes was or could have got us to - perhaps I was a bit over the top...."

And really really - I mean this only as an interesting study in jovial interaction between blues - no desire for inappropriate debate - just a desire to see if some people can have a bit of a laugh at themselves - for what it is worth - despite how much I was against replacing Hughes at the time - I really think Mancini is a better manager for the short, medium and long term

[Beefymcfc]

I miss Sparky :(

[Wonderwall]

I really think Mancini is a better manager for the short, medium and long term

I sincerely hope you are right! I admit that I was VERY angry over the Hughes affair and probably over-defended him because of the hysterical reaction of some. However, I am City through and through and will still be here long after Mancini and all the current crop have long since left (if the good lord so wishes....just in case he reads this board!).

Mancini has me really frustrated, as I sit there and think WTF are you doing Mancini, you haven't got a clue and then it turns out to be a master stroke. However, the next game I am sitting there thinking the same thing again and it turns out I was right , he is fuclin clueless.

Some on here were saying "we are going to batter someone soon", however. if we do, it will be a freak result IMO as I cant see any signs of it whatsoever in the premier league. We have been far from good so far this season and it is a good job that others around us have also faltered. If we had lost to chelsea instead of winning, we would be 14 points behind them and languishing behind newcastle in the league table. Over a 1/4 of the way through the season and we are averaging 1.7 points a game, equating to a total of 64 points if we keep this up. That might see us sneak a europa spot.

I have no doubt that I want Mancini get it right, but he needs to sort it out and soon. This, new players, injuries and gelling excuse is old hat for years now.

[john68]

The new players and the gelling is only old hat because we have yet to allow most managers enough time to go through the process. There is also the exuce of rectifying what isn't working 1st time around too Bob.
It all takes time and until we allow the process to happen, we'll never know mate.
I thought at the time, your views regarding Hughes were pretty much on target. There were a few on here being triumphal and a touch arrogant immediately after his sacking.
I too don't see us taking any teams apart, from the style we currently play. Hopefully as the new players finally get into the team and gain experience, the tactics will change.

[Lev Bronstein]

It's all very strange. Three weeks ago we were sitting pretty. Four wins, including Chelsea and Liverpool, a couple of draws, a slice of luck against Spurs and an out of character rush of blood by Joe Hart, and a loss against Sunderland due to a very late penalty. Only 3 goals conceded, we weren't pulsating to watch, but very difficult to beat and enough skill in the side to get a goal when it was needed. All-in-all we were very competent, very promising and very threatening.

Since then, 7 goals conceded, 2 losses and a dodgy win against Blackpool. We are letting in comedy goals and don't appear to be all that competent. Reading some on here you'd think the roof had fallen in.

Despite scratching my head sometimes at what is going on, and despite feeling that Bobby experiments too much, I can't at the moment think of a better man for the job. I think that he has a strong plan A and is trying to establish a fluid playing style so that the team can cope with a variety of situations. At least I think that's what's going on. Any way, progress is rarely smooth so we should be prepared for bumps on the road, but we'll get there.

Now as for the OP. Mostly I have no objection to the question being asked. However, in the case of Hughes, you don't need me to remind you all of the bitterness and rancour on this board. At times it was impossible to express an opinion without being abused one way or another - and the abuse went beyond banter, many folk just closed their ears and yelled.

Alas I smell old battles being re-fought.

[dazby]

The big difference lev is that our defensive personnel changed. And chopped. And changed.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I really think Mancini is a better manager for the short, medium and long term

I sincerely hope you are right! I admit that I was VERY angry over the Hughes affair and probably over-defended him because of the hysterical reaction of some. However, I am City through and through and will still be here long after Mancini and all the current crop have long since left (if the good lord so wishes....just in case he reads this board!).

Mancini has me really frustrated, as I sit there and think WTF are you doing Mancini, you haven't got a clue and then it turns out to be a master stroke. However, the next game I am sitting there thinking the same thing again and it turns out I was right , he is fuclin clueless.

Some on here were saying "we are going to batter someone soon", however. if we do, it will be a freak result IMO as I cant see any signs of it whatsoever in the premier league. We have been far from good so far this season and it is a good job that others around us have also faltered. If we had lost to chelsea instead of winning, we would be 14 points behind them and languishing behind newcastle in the league table. Over a 1/4 of the way through the season and we are averaging 1.7 points a game, equating to a total of 64 points if we keep this up. That might see us sneak a europa spot.

I have no doubt that I want Mancini get it right, but he needs to sort it out and soon. This, new players, injuries and gelling excuse is old hat for years now.

Good point that is sometimes forgotten on this board. All (well most) of us have been through truckload of managers and will see same amount 'til they pass away. Regardless if they are successfull or not.

[john@staustell]

I am a little concerned in that we were playing very well toward the end of last season, and now we are playing worse. Something is very erratic mentally, as for 20 minutes we were really good at Wolves - a comfortable win last year - then we were totally outplayed and appeared largely clueless.

The big alteration in our systems from last season is the introduction of Yaya, which has changed the balance of the whole team. One also wonders why, with DeJong injured, either Barry or Yaya didn't just slot into that role, rather than devising another different formation altogether? The subs would also have baffled Einstein.

Last season - under Bobby - you knew that a first goal would win us the match. We would just shut up shop and maybe get another one or two. That all seems to have gone out of the window now.

For the minute I'll put it down to failure to 'gel', partly because it's fashionable to do so and partly because Bobby must be using the same methods and philosophies etc, just with new players.

He needs to hit on the right formations by Xmas for sure.

[edge275]

I'm just glad Shawzy and others are now starting to see the light. It's quite clear that Hughes was a disgrace tactically. I also think he lacks motivation. Good riddance.

Well I was very happy with the first two games this season. And I'm very happy with Mancini's first two games. Tactics were spot on for all four games.

Lets just wait until its safe to say that Mancini's style and tactics have been stamped on the team before we start sucking each other's cocks, eh Edge?

Because if my memory serves me right, Pearce's tactics and the team's performances were outstanding for his first 8 games. To say Keegan's tactics were a disgrace in comparisson to Pearce would be quite wrong... how do we know this? Because time told us.

Mancini's first two games have impressed me, but new manager syndrome can be extremely powerful and I know better than to call a previous manager's tactics a disgrace from previous experience.

Trust me, this guy is light years ahead of Hughes.

If not, you can pin my comments up by a mast and use them as a stick to verbally beat me with.

Where's that MAST Edge?

I don't know what you're talking about mate ;)

[mcfc1632]

I was one of those firmly against Hughes being sacked - but for the right reasons - being a fan of over 40 years I think that there has been about 30 managerial changes always causing backward steps (of course apart from the obvious exceptions) - I was just desparate to see some stability

For me those wanting stability were clearly on the right CITY agenda - equally those that wanted him out for thr 'right' reasons - perhaps because they could see real faults and see the real strengths of the possible replacements had 'right' agendas - those just going on about rag connections were (IMO) just a bit silly perhaps seeking to demonstrate some 'strength' of their CITY support through such attitudes - when (again IMO) real scum haters (like me) know the difference between 'pure and proper' hatred including what and who to hate - and just the lazy trivial stuff of hating anyone and everything associated with the scum

But anyway this is all under the bridge for me now

Mancini looks like he will be the stability I have craved for - I really hope so - and with the benefit of hindsight I believe that he is a top top manager with outstanding personal attributes and the strong qualities to lead a club at the top for many years

There is almost nothing about how he conducts himself that I have not found to be exemplary, including:

1/ The players he targets - I think that perhaps Hughes was limited in his horizons maybe not able to take in the scale of opportunity

2/ The way he handles players and the media – defusing issues that arise – ‘straight-batting’ the press who seek to get quotes they can use

3/ The way he handles disruptive players – there needs to be a situation where eventually players there and new ones understand it is his way or the highway

4/ Tactics – he knows what he is doing and is not swayed by anyone – including us fans and in particular the press – and of course the players. We are now a really solid outfit and I have seen a ‘loosening’ of the constraints on attacking flair – I think that Mancini is wonderfully able to assess the tactics required for individual games / opponents and he has developed a squad that can deliver his tactics

We might not like the approach against the scum and the arse but he has targets - which I see as top 3 - he is securing this first and is single-minded

5/ I also love the seeming boundless energy he has - he seems to be involved in everything and works closely with the players in training - very hands on unlike many other managers

And many more................

I certainly mean nothing negative towards Hughes – I think that he handled himself with dignity and all that bollocks about Hughes lickers etc was just childishness – but I could not be more pro-Mancini at the moment and I think that the future is very bright