The United Kingdom and its leagues

[Dameerto]

..."English" football was built on the back of Scottish players, and without them there wouldn't be anything like we have today or it would have taken a much longer and more circuitous path...

cheers

Things haven't changed much, these days it's Scottish managers though.

[paddyblue]

The fact that the irish clubs are so crap could easily stem from the fact that so many of them would rather watch the premier league than get there arse down to their local club and put their money into their own league.

i assume you do know that the league of ireland is a summer season,not a lot of prem matches to watch then

[sandman]

The fact that the irish clubs are so crap could easily stem from the fact that so many of them would rather watch the premier league than get there arse down to their local club and put their money into their own league.

i assume you do know that the league of ireland is a summer season,not a lot of prem matches to watch then

I do actually, most of my family are from near Lanesborough so I spent countless summers there as a kid, in fact my father is in Tipperary this week.

[Wonderwall]

one historical note of importance...because even tho ole man 68 doesn't think i know anything about football beyond what Wikipedia might tell me of years gone by...here's an interesting titbit i read about in a fantastic book about the history of Football a couple years ago.

most of the early conference and cup successes came from teams largely loaded to the gills with Scottish players. When that started to really shift towards English-borne players i cannae recall but i bet the first 30 years of conference football had their fair share of Scots in them and they dominated the game.

Why? historically it was for several reasons -- while there was an undercurrent of work ethic on the pitch at play which belied their success as it was noted that the Scottish were harder workers when it came to football, with many of the Englishmen of the time preferring Rugby as the more "refined" of the two ball sports, but the most dominating reason at the time was because you couldn't make a professional living at it as an Englishman, whereas clearly the bar was lower for your average Scottish man in the 19th century. The Scottish treated an amateur game professionally, and it was their success which helped create a truly professional class of footballer, created huge fan interest, got mammoth stadia built and created the drama that many of your great or great great granddads probably enjoyed.

"English" football was built on the back of Scottish players, and without them there wouldn't be anything like we have today or it would have taken a much longer and more circuitous path.

Broken Britain..even in say 1905 or so.

cheers

quite a lot of modernised football came from scotland too, if you do a wiki search on Queens Park who play at hampden park you will see they were a massive club once and hold the record for silverware behind celtic and rangers.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Does it need reform? Why are you different countries and yet have the one government? Why do you not allow Scottish Clubs to play in England yet some Welsh clubs are? Why aren't there big Irish clubs? What the hell is going on over there?

Could you have a United Kingdom Premier league with 3 Scottish clubs, two Welsh and Irish and a Northern Irish or whatever?

Fix it please. How do you do it?

It ain't broke.

And Irish clubs are not in the United Kingdom, they're in the Republic of Ireland.

"Why aren't there big Irish clubs?" Simples, no money!

[sandman]

The fact that the irish clubs are so crap could easily stem from the fact that so many of them would rather watch the premier league than get there arse down to their local club and put their money into their own league.

i assume you do know that the league of ireland is a summer season,not a lot of prem matches to watch then

I do actually, most of my family are from near Lanesborough so I spent countless summers there as a kid, in fact my father is in Tipperary this week.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

mmmmm, cardiff, swansea, newport, merthyr, colwyn bay, etc, etc....who can blame them from playing in the english leagues? The LOW is shite, and couldn't handle 3 of those teams - similar reasons that chester and halifax weren't relegated to the bottom rung but scarborough were.

This whole argument is shite - why don't the majority of the NE teams compete in the pyramid? Coz they don't want to/cant afford to.

As for the glasgow teams starting off in the 4th division or wherever - yeah, that'd be fair. Accrington et al playing in a league with 2 of the top 20 (or whatever) turnover teams in europe???? they might as well not bother for a season! and think of the ticketing....lol

remember when wimbledon tried to move to dublin? makes more sense than milton fucking keynes...

as for the NI league - with one or two notable exceptions i wouldn't want any of those clubs anywhere near "our" leagues...

however, if we're playing fantasy football - it probably would be nice to start again - with a UK & Eire pyramid which may well see a dublin team and the glasgows in th etop league and possibly a belfast united team somewhere (i'm kidding about that last one). Of course it won't happen for the same reasons that a GB olympic team is unlikely.

[Curlie]

Does anyone actually know an Irishman that actually supports an Irish club?? We moan about glory hunters and such, but their reasons for not following an Irish club will be 'because Irish clubs are crap'.

Clearly you don't know your football and haven't followed City for very long.
I follow my local Irish League club, Lisburn Distillery, and while the skill level is far below the English 3rd division, I enjoy every minute of the passion and the downs and lows that come from following them.
Very similar to the lows and pain I have experienced and endured this last 40 years with my beloved City.

[ronk]

Irish football got trapped in a chicken and egg situation where fans watched English and Scottish football to watch Irish international footballers, and Irish international footballers went to England because they had to to get into the team. The BBC had a good football product on TV, RTE had little beyond international football.

Before Ryanair it wasn't feasible to have large travelling support or teams flying to domestic league fixtures so Irish based teams were stuck in their own small pool.

International football is the catalyst for many people watching club football, at least until a tradition is built up, but once there's a tradition, it's hard to overcome. The Premier League is watched all over the world.

[john68]

At the time of the union of the kingdom, the English and the Scots joined together as equal partners. The Welsh were considered a conquered nation and joined the union under the English jurisdiction.
Though it sounds like historical nonsense, the above is still reflected in many ways. The Scots have a parliament, whilst the Welsh, merely an Assemby with far less powers. It is also why there is no St David's cross in the union flag. Scotland is a country, Wales a principality. Though largely forgotten or ignored, it is still reflected in many areas of modern sport, where, like cricket and the England and wales Cricket Board being one body, the Welsh football clubs enjoy a closer relationship our FL and FA.
The likes of Cardiff and Swansea naturally had an oppen pathway to the English league, whereas the Scots being a seperate country did not.

The 2 Glasgow clubs make a lot of noise but only want to join the English league for financial reasons. It is not the responsibility of the English to provide for the fiscal security if either of them. Should we consider a couple of Dutch, Belgian odr even French teams?