The Southgate Plan

[Alioune DVToure]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13634800.stm

Gareth Southgate reveals FA youth football initiative

The Football Association has unveiled plans that could revolutionise youth football in England.

Under the proposals, children will not be allowed to play 11-a-side games until under-13 level.

"In 11-a-side matches there are fewer touches for players," said FA head of elite development Gareth Southgate.

"If we go to that format too young then it becomes much more of an athletic-based game. We have huge pitches that kids can't get around."

This and other proposals, such as games being played on smaller pitches and with smaller goals, are the result of an 18-month investigation of grassroots football.

Any changes will need to win support from 75% of the FA's voting shareholders at a vote in September.

The FA has highlighted that three of the most successful countries in recent years - Spain, France and Italy - do not allow 11-a-side games until under-14 level, and Southgate said he felt there was an appetite for change in the English game.

"People have seen the way that the likes of Barcelona have played this year and they're asking: 'Why can't our kids play that way?'," said the former Middlesbrough manager.

"We want them to play that way. We feel that what we are proposing will give them the environment to develop those skills.

"We have down the years produced some technically gifted players but we want to increase that pool of talent so that if our best one or two players get injured, there is a bigger talent pool to come in."

Research shows that children who are slower to mature physically are being forced out of the game before they reach their potential.

Factors such as the pitches they play on being too big means smaller more gifted players tend to lose out in favour of more athletic players.

Southgate stated: "It benefits the physically stronger players but there's a real danger that we lose the smaller, more technically gifted ones.

"There is a high drop-out of players in that nature."

[Wonderwall]

the timperley and district junior leages were used by the fa to trial the 9 a side as a step towards the 11 aside game. Most juniots go from 7 a side to 11 a side and its a massive difference for the lads. The 9 a side trial was a massive success, the only issue was trying to agree on a goal size to fit between 7 and 11 a side.

Great news in my opinion

[Scatman]

I read a similar thing from Martin Samuel, 4 years ago:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/article2910642.ece

It took the FA 3 years to pick up on it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1279484/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Sir-Trevor-Brooking-realise-kids-lost-land-giants.html

No wonder we didn't get the world cup with these sloths in charge

[BlueinBosnia]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

[Alioune DVToure]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

I've always thought one problem with the development of English players is their reluctance to try their hand abroad. Why not find a league that suits your individual style of play and go and develop there? Players of all other nationalities do it (not so much Italians, but still).

[BlueinBosnia]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

I've always thought one problem with the development of English players is their reluctance to try their hand abroad. Why not find a league that suits your individual style of play and go and develop there? Players of all other nationalities do it (not so much Italians, but still).

Do you mean as youngsters (ie 16 or 17) or as maturing players (22-23)?

I think the language barrier is a major deterrent for English players (someone who speaks 'no' German in Belgium, for example, would easily be able to get at least a GCSE 'B' grade at it in Britain), and also the payscales are incomparable: someone on the bench in a bottom-half Championship team probably earns more than most first-teamers in mid-table Polish/Danish/Belgian top leagues. A mate of mine who was playing for a Belgian Prem team last season (2009-10) (started about 8 games, and came on as a sub in twice as many) earned considerably less than his girlfriend, who works in a temping office.

[Alioune DVToure]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

I've always thought one problem with the development of English players is their reluctance to try their hand abroad. Why not find a league that suits your individual style of play and go and develop there? Players of all other nationalities do it (not so much Italians, but still).

[highlight]Do you mean as youngsters (ie 16 or 17) or as maturing players (22-23)?[/highlight]

I think the language barrier is a major deterrent for English players (someone who speaks 'no' German in Belgium, for example, would easily be able to get at least a GCSE 'B' grade at it in Britain), and also the payscales are incomparable: someone on the bench in a bottom-half Championship team probably earns more than most first-teamers in mid-table Polish/Danish/Belgian top leagues. A mate of mine who was playing for a Belgian Prem team last season (2009-10) (started about 8 games, and came on as a sub in twice as many) earned considerably less than his girlfriend, who works in a temping office.

Neither actually! I was thinking more of the 18-20 age bracket. If you know you've got the talent to play at the top, but not the muscle to play in the Prem, get your agent pimping you out to teams in Germany, Spain and France where you might get straight into someone's 18.

As far as the language thing goes Silva, Tevez and most hispanohablantes that come over here speak dogshit English at first. They're not all bright guys like Gus Poyet and Roberto Martínez. Clubs will look after you, and if you're an English speaker you'll get by almost anywhere these days.

[BlueinBosnia]

As far as the language thing goes Silva, Tevez and most hispanohablantes that come over here speak dogshit English at first. They're not all bright guys like Gus Poyet and Roberto Martínez. Clubs will look after you, and if you're an English speaker you'll get by almost anywhere these days.

But do other countries' clubs have the infrastructure to do that? Take a look at lower-level Bundesliga squads (Koln, Hoffenheim, Frankfurt & Hannover, for instance); many of their foreign youngsters are from countries where German is mainly taught as a second language, or countries where people emigrated to Germany under the 'Gostarbeiter(sp?)' system, possibly including a player's parents, or the players moved there as children.

Also, it's a bit unfair to compare top-level players who can afford to ship friends and family over (doesn't Robinho have some mental entourage of 40+ family members and friends?) to youngsters who can't quite make the grade. Could an English player of similar calibre to, for example, Big Phil make the same move to Levante? Conversely, a Belgian or other nationality may take that risk to come to Britain, like Kompany's brother, or the Dutchmen and Spaniards who moved to Swansea when they were in League One.

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

Every kids team I've seen have been playing smaller numbers for years.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

Hmmmmmmm...... I've played some futsal myself as grown up to keep fitness up and I have to say that personally I feel it doesn't really have as much to do with proper football as you'd think. Perhaps it improves movement off the ball and some short distance passing but lack of any physical side and direct nature of attacking I feel there are players who are more suited to futsal and players who are more suited to proper football.

The way I see it, it's a good training method among many others.

[Alioune DVToure]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

Hmmmmmmm...... I've played some futsal myself as grown up to keep fitness up and I have to say that personally I feel it doesn't really have as much to do with proper football as you'd think. Perhaps it improves movement off the ball and some short distance passing but lack of any physical side and direct nature of attacking I feel there are players who are more suited to futsal and players who are more suited to proper football.

The way I see it, it's a good training method among many others.

David Silva is the archetypal young Spanish midfielder. His game is all about seeing pockets of space that nobody else has picked up on. This is how they play in their PE lessons - never a chance to go long and, like you say, always having to drop off for the short pass. Makes for a more patient game.

When I was a kid at primary school (not that long ago - I'm 26 now), the Hollywood ball and the 20-yard effort were never discouraged. They should've been.

It'd be foolish to think we'll be at Spain's level in 15 years with these changes, but as a start it's a good one.

[Alioune DVToure]

As far as the language thing goes Silva, Tevez and most hispanohablantes that come over here speak dogshit English at first. They're not all bright guys like Gus Poyet and Roberto Martínez. Clubs will look after you, and if you're an English speaker you'll get by almost anywhere these days.

But do other countries' clubs have the infrastructure to do that? Take a look at lower-level Bundesliga squads (Koln, Hoffenheim, Frankfurt & Hannover, for instance); many of their foreign youngsters are from countries where German is mainly taught as a second language, or countries where people emigrated to Germany under the 'Gostarbeiter(sp?)' system, possibly including a player's parents, or the players moved there as children.

Also, it's a bit unfair to compare top-level players who can afford to ship friends and family over (doesn't Robinho have some mental entourage of 40+ family members and friends?) to youngsters who can't quite make the grade. Could an English player of similar calibre to, for example, Big Phil make the same move to Levante? Conversely, a Belgian or other nationality may take that risk to come to Britain, like Kompany's brother, or the Dutchmen and Spaniards who moved to Swansea when they were in League One.

I don't the ins and outs of other German/Belgian clubs' policies towards young foreign players so I can't really answer that.

All I can say is a few English players have gone abroad and had good experiences - Matt Darbyshire, Jermaine Pennant and Colin Kazim-Richards spring to mind (yes, I know his dad is Turkish and that's he plays for Turkey, but his footy education was in England). All of them had good experiences as for as I know. More should give it a try.

I'm thinking of young players who had a blistering start to their careers and then lost their way a bit too. Perhaps a move to Portugal after Arsenal might have done Franny Jeffers some good. Who knows? It's a big football world out there.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

Hmmmmmmm...... I've played some futsal myself as grown up to keep fitness up and I have to say that personally I feel it doesn't really have as much to do with proper football as you'd think. Perhaps it improves movement off the ball and some short distance passing but lack of any physical side and direct nature of attacking I feel there are players who are more suited to futsal and players who are more suited to proper football.

The way I see it, it's a good training method among many others.

David Silva is the archetypal young Spanish midfielder. His game is all about seeing pockets of space that nobody else has picked up on. This is how they play in their PE lessons - never a chance to go long and, like you say, always having to drop off for the short pass. Makes for a more patient game.

When I was a kid at primary school (not that long ago - I'm 26 now), the Hollywood ball and the 20-yard effort were never discouraged. They should've been.It'd be foolish to think we'll be at Spain's level in 15 years with these changes, but as a start it's a good one.

I know mate. It was same here. Also, it was all about winning NOW rather than building personal skill level like they do in Netherlands. We had fitness training started at about 12 (like kids that age wouldn't be naturally fit) with cross country running and even some weight training. As a central midfielder if you picked the ball deep coach would always tell me that either pass it quickly forward, spread to the wings or if no one is open boot it long. We were always told NEVER to pass backwards or sideways. Also "every attack has to end with shot in target" was kind of mantra always repeated to us which basically meant that around box rather than looking for opening you'd take a shot from distance.

Kind of kid like David Silva would've probably been discouraged to play football those days and would've ended up doing something else instead here.

I do hope that training has progressed from that everywhere in the world though.

Edit. I also participated to numerous of tournaments where we met youth sides from Netherlands, Spain and France and they'd always pass us to death. You could see the difference even back then. We could hold our own against northern European, British and German sides though.

[Avalon]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

That's because the Dutch don't really bother with Futsal. At least, according to my friends. They also said they play 9 a side on half a pitch for the kids and that is how they get used to football.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I have to say I agree with everything the paper bag-headed, penalty-fluffing, Pizza Hut whore says here. I taught in Spain for a year and the six-a-side on handball courts played with a ball too heavy to launch makes for great little technical players. Well in, Gareth.

I've watched a fair few Futsal internationals. Whereas the Spanish are indisputably the world's best team at the sport, the Dutch (with supposedly the world's best youth training system) are pap, so there's obviously a horses-for-courses thing going on here.

That's because the Dutch don't really bother with Futsal. At least, according to my friends. They also said they play 9 a side on half a pitch for the kids and that is how they get used to football.

9-a-side? Are you sure? I mean when I was kid and started playing in a team when I'd just turned 6, we played 6-a-side (actually 6+goalkeeper) on half pitch until age 11 and then we started playing 11-a-side. I don't think I've even heard of 9-a-side.

What Dutch do best though is that they rotate positions until about 16. I think I was assigned to be central midfielder aged about 7 and stayed there when I had to quit playing actively around 18. I've played hundreds and hundreds games of youth football with different teams and all sorts of youth "select" teams and there has been less than ten games at that level I played any other position. Laughable really in hindsight. Later as a grown up when I moved to playing lower than low league level football, I tried to play other positions just for laugh (and eventually settled in centerback). It was crazy after having dedicated big part of my life playing and training, when I played few games as a striker, I had little idea about movement and timing needed to play the position.

[ashton287]

We don't need to revolutionise the way kids play football. We need a manager with the balls to drop the big names that dont/have never performed at international level.

coughlampardcoughrooneycough