Has Mancini lost the dressing room? (genuine question)

[PeterParker]

He's lost a few for sure over the past couple of seasons. Going through it line-by-line might make it clearer albeit with a personal opinion on each case:

HART - Doesn't care who is the manage as long as he's playing every week I reckon
KOLAROV - Think he plays for the manager and often looks to follow his advice
CLICHY - Keeps his head down and gets on with it
KOMPANY - True pro will lead no matter what is happening
LESCOTT - As per Clichy
BRIDGE - No one cares
SAVIC - No one cares what he thinks
RICHARDS - Has had a couple of run ins but mostly positive
TOURE - Maybe not manager based but since his drugs ban he's made a few comment about the club not backing him
ZABBA - Gets on with it but would be influential amongst the spanish speakers
BARRY - Has played most games so I'd imagine he loves the manager
JOHNSON - Numerous press articles from Mancini saying Johnson has to to perform better. Doesn't look a happy relationship
De JONG - Again a couple of articles out there which Nigel questions the team. Don't think he's too impressed
MILNER - Has not been happy many times on the pitch and has shaken his head and argued with the manager on the touchline
NASRI - Keeps his head down
SILVA - Another quiet one, just gets on with it
YAYA - Has questioned the team's experience and desire a couple of times. He's better placed than any to offer his advice on whether we have what it takes to win major honours.
ADEBAYOR - Relationship broken down beyond repair
TEVEZ - See above
DZEKO - Very nearly as the above two
BALOTELLI - A total love/hate relationship currently in a soon to be prolonged hate period
AGUERO - Keeps his head down and gets on with it. Looks like he's thinking of Madrid though these past couple of months.
SANTA CRUZ - No one cares

I think his biggest issue is with strikers. He's lost them for sure, not the dressing room but definitely them. He needs to find a winning formula up front and quick smart too. We need to get our strikers believing again like they did pre-December.

If we continue with abject performances then Khaldoon will start looking at the numbers and with a £50million and £25million pound striker that could come back into the team for another manager - well in the days of FFP then it could have a bearing compared to a couple of seasons ago when it would not have.

This, my point exact MRM.

If there is something from Bob that i really hate, is the fact that he can't handle his relations with players. If you aren't Mario, and do a fuck up, you are out, no mather what.

Just take a look of how he handled the situation with Bellers, Given and Adebayor and their trip in Cook's office after the sacking of Hughes.

[Dameerto]

I pretty much agree it's getting to the point where it will be more costly to the chairman to keep Mancini (taking everything into account) compared to bringing in someone else to work with what we've got (and what we've got on loan or potentially out the door in summer).

[Swales4ever]

No sorry. You are wrong. You can try many things to win a game including missing out the midfield completely.

Football games are not all won by tactical genius or by midfield mastery or anything else. Stoke very rarely win any games by mastering the midfield & many of the games we have lost, we have dominated possession but not created many chances.

We have come back from terrible situations by throwing everything at the opposition recently after our 'plan A' has been fucked up. We have attacked & attacked & the opposition plan has been ripped up.

We had nothing to lose & everything to win Against Arsenal. This is an Arsenal side which is notorious for bottling it when attacked. We tried to play sensible football as if we were playing the game in September & a point was ok, rather than 30 mins away from losing the title at the end of a season.

Ferguson would have won that game with our squad to pick from & he wouldn't have done it by worrying about Arsenal, he would have made them worry about us & tried every kind of attack known to man. We should have finished that game with their penalty area full of City players & even Joe Hart if neccessary. That's what Bacon would have done & that's how you win this league. If they breakaway & score then tough, we lose by 2 or 3 rather than losing anyway by drawing 0-0.


We had one fucking lunatic suffering a mental breakdown, & one player who wants out of the club & hasn't scored at all this season as our only attacking options, 3 fullbacks, two centre backs 2 sitting midfielders & a headless Yorkshireman who was having a fucking nightmare game. That midfield score about 4 goals per season between them & you are trying to tell me this is correct when we need to win in order to win the title ? All those midfielders & defenders are the best selection to win a title in the last 30 mins ?

You are really trying to tell me this is correct ?

You seem to miss my point, and fairly so because I am not capable enough and we all are sick and feeling cheated.
I am not trying to defend anything.

I concede that Bob has been possibly too much stubborn in insisting with the "plan A" and I am convinced he has done so not because he is clueless or limited but because he is trying to instil faith and confidence in the pattern of football he want to establish, first of all in the players mind. he should have felt that not stacking that much with the passing game and moving to a more direct style [when contingently needed] would have affected the bigger scheme of his project in the players confidence. just a personal opinion, tho.

Yesterday game is a no proof, imho, as no manager [including Whiskeynose] wins anything if most of the players don't play. Yesterday I hardly believe anyone would have got anything even throwing in 2 CFs and 2 wide men with educated feet.
I have criticized Mancini when he picked Dzeko at Stoke but didnt lined Kolarov to provide decent feeds. Then came the Sunderland game, when Dzeko had dozens of decent crosses to impact but never did one.
As much as I share everyone's pissing at the attacking output of the last two months we cannot miss to face that the manager had to pick amongst Dzeko, who has even failed to head a ball 9/10 in every recent game he has been given the chance, Aguero who started the season finding the net when shoting very much and from every where, then by sudden just stopped to shot and pretty always missing the last dribbling or the last touch or pass, Tevez back unfit from awol and anyway hard to trust because of his history. it just remained the Balotelli fool... and if You would arse to browse back when he was purchased I raised both my eyebrows at such a huge gamble to be taken by the manager of the richest Club in the world.

In a nutshell, what's up by the above muddled thinkering is that it doesn't matter if me You or Tony Pulis can win several games by bombing the box filled with 2 big towers, nor what we can get by reverting to improbable contingency plans B,C,D: we certainly won't get where MCFC and their Owners want the Club to be established. We can only get there with a powerful, certainly creative and confident domination of the midfield. I know it and so do You because You had eloquently dissertated it along the season, explaining us why City isn't a finished article missing backups for Silva and Yaya and a fast wide man we hardly tried to get with the Sanchez cunt and hoped to replace with Nasri.

I reserve my judgement on the intelligent point raised by Carl re man management, as I am now too much confused to even try a proper understanding and because it's an issue that involves too many shades and info locked in the dressing room nor we exactly do know what part of Mancini public statements are set to smooth and try to lay down the media constant fight for unsettlement. I partly agree on the relative importance of being loved by the team, when You set a professional rather than a friendly approach with the players, but I doubt Mancini might ever be able of the Clough's glorious motivational speech and certainly I think You must have the players confident on Your lead. more importantly and fortunately for the City sake, Khaldoon shall deal with the understanding of this issue and make the final assessment.

thanks anyway and sincerely, for bothering on the my above means of reasoning.

[Ted Hughes]

Mancio, the time to worry about re forming the midfield into a nice passing unit, is in June.

We were supposed to be trying to win the title. If that means putting Joe Hart on Micah Richards shoulders for half an hour in the Arsenal penalty area, then that's what we do. We don't worry that it's against our footballing priciples & that the owner may get upset, he won't, he'll have a party even if we win the league by bouncing the ball off the ref's head & vollying it.

The time for worrying about plans and intricate tactics has gone. We are getting mugged in a streetfight & we just got our wallet & phone nicked & our girlfriend felt up whilst we worried about sticking the boot in.

[brite blu sky]

Mancio isn't completely wrong, but Mancini is struggling to understand the point that ted and everyone else is making. Being calm and regaining some control or foothold in midfield will deliver more opportunities in a match, basically by having enough of the ball to launch attacks. When teams lose any foothold they can't even get out to attack or launch crosses or any other plan. However that calmness has to go at a certain point. It has been noted many times that Mancini doesn't seem to get the idea of mixing it up or equally calling on more direct or emergency tactics.
That said there is more to all this. The team were not performing during any part of the Arse game so I can't look at the AK substitution as any great mistake, my honest opinion is that Mancini could have made little difference to that performance from City regardless who he brought on. I would have played different players from the start but then i'm not seeing them train etc etc.
At best that team would have just held on to a draw, there was no spark and no leadership and no desire from the outset. Mancini has to take responsibility for that, but right now I'm not convinced it is his fault.

Again just to get some perspective on this, City looked as bad as the rags did earlier in the season, was that baconcuntfaces fault ?

[Ted Hughes]

Mancio isn't completely wrong, but Mancini is struggling to understand the point that ted and everyone else is making. Being calm and regaining some control or foothold in midfield will deliver more opportunities in a match, basically by having enough of the ball to launch attacks. When teams lose any foothold they can't even get out to attack or launch crosses or any other plan. However that calmness has to go at a certain point. It has been noted many times that Mancini doesn't seem to get the idea of mixing it up or equally calling on more direct or emergency tactics.
That said there is more to all this. The team were not performing during any part of the Arse game so I can't look at the AK substitution as any great mistake, my honest opinion is that Mancini could have made little difference to that performance from City regardless who he brought on. I would have played different players from the start but then i'm not seeing them train etc etc.
At best that team would have just held on to a draw, there was no spark and no leadership and no desire from the outset. Mancini has to take responsibility for that, but right now I'm not convinced it is his fault.

Again just to get some perspective on this, City looked as bad as the rags did earlier in the season, was that baconcuntfaces fault ?

It's not 'earlier in the season'. It's now. That's the point. Earlier in the season, a point away at a full strength Arsenal would be disappointing but perfectly acceptable & if we were struggling in a game, keeping it tight would be a reasonable option.

Utd haven't looked very good in many games all season & Arsenal would beat them if they played them tomorrow, they are too good for Utd's defence. Ferguson has performed a miracle to keep them in the title race. If he'd lost to Arsenal at this stage though, he would have done so finishing with at least 4 forwards on the pitch & at least trying to do something about it. I recon once he threw the kitchen sink at them, they're arses would go & Utd would pull back a goal & finish on top with their fans screaming & shouting them on, going down with a fight not a whimper.

The way people are describing yesterday's game is not the game I saw. I saw a game where Arsenal came out flying, we dug in, had a few close shaves & then basically took control of the game for a long period. We missed an absolute sitter then, rather than go for the kill, we sat there, Pizarro got more and more tired but Mancini did nothing & we handed Arsenal the initiative by not reacting and pushing forward. Then Mancini became worried about concedibng not about winning & we conceded.

He basically got EVERYTHING wrong and was basically fucking useless at his job both tactically & inspirationally.

I don't agree that therte was no desire but if that's true, it's his fault as well, as is any lack of leadership.

It's not good enough & all he's talking about in the piece I've just read is about how we shouldn't have conceded a goal because 'maybe' we might score afterwards. Just shit.

[brite blu sky]

Yes the fact that it is now is a big big point and it makes all the difference.
The game I saw City rarely had any kind of control, when they did it looked tentative and they looked insecure. City to me looked like losing all control in the game basically at any point, they could not get a grip in the center of the park, Barry was chasing not in control, Milner was just running around. I think Komps could see this from where he was and from quite early on tried to make some plays through the midfield.. right idea.. very very poor execution all afternoon, about 8 times he never got the ball to the target. Pizzaro also tried. Nasri had no-one to play with, Aguero and Mario were poor. In my view looking to Dzeko and Tevez was not the answer and would have not turned it around.. in fact I'd say it would have made it worse as someone in the midfield would have to have come off, leaving Milner chasing more shadows than he already was.

In a simple way City were not set up for the intensity that Arse put in, could not play themselves out of trouble and losing Yaya they lost the lynchpin to doing that. City had some good spells basically only when Arse took their foot off the gas. Without some decent defending City would have got panned as Arsenal were walzing through the midfield at will. When Nasri did get the ball there was no support behind him from Barry or Milner, who looked like they were in a time warp playing a completely different team on another day, abject.

With hindsight imo the team should have been with Micah at RB, NDJ sat and possibly Zabba on for Yaya. Milner and or Barry could then be linking with Nasri and the forwards when City were on the front foot.
Mistake if any was the wrong team. On the day we were outplayed nearly to a man.

[Ted Hughes]

Yes the fact that it is now is a big big point and it makes all the difference.
The game I saw City rarely had any kind of control, when they did it looked tentative and they looked insecure. City to me looked like losing all control in the game basically at any point, they could not get a grip in the center of the park, Barry was chasing not in control, Milner was just running around. I think Komps could see this from where he was and from quite early on tried to make some plays through the midfield.. right idea.. very very poor execution all afternoon, about 8 times he never got the ball to the target. Pizzaro also tried. Nasri had no-one to play with, Aguero and Mario were poor. In my view looking to Dzeko and Tevez was not the answer and would have not turned it around.. in fact I'd say it would have made it worse as someone in the midfield would have to have come off, leaving Milner chasing more shadows than he already was.

In a simple way City were not set up for the intensity that Arse put in, could not play themselves out of trouble and losing Yaya they lost the lynchpin to doing that. City had some good spells basically only when Arse took their foot off the gas. Without some decent defending City would have got panned as Arsenal were walzing through the midfield at will. When Nasri did get the ball there was no support behind him from Barry or Milner, who looked like they were in a time warp playing a completely different team on another day, abject.

With hindsight imo the team should have been with Micah at RB, NDJ sat and possibly Zabba on for Yaya. Milner and or Barry could then be linking with Nasri and the forwards when City were on the front foot.
Mistake if any was the wrong team. On the day we were outplayed nearly to a man.

We were well on top possession wise for a decent period & then Pizarro started to tire, at which case Bob should have moved swiftly to take the initiative. He did nothing & Arsenal started to take over the game more & more. Then he tried to defend against it rather than try to make them defend against us.

If you try everything to win & fail, you can say 'well done' to the oppo & 'see you next year'.

If you don't try, there is no point in saying 'oh I don't think it would have worked' because you will never know because you didn't try, which is an utter disgrace.

[brite blu sky]

I'd take Milner's view of the game as fair enough - written out over Chinner bollox.

- weren't good enough, didn't hold the ball, not ruthless enough (in away games in general).

That last point can be aimed at Mancini and that is a fair point, we have said it before and probably say it again. Unlike others I think Mancini's style is evolving in PL and I hope he takes the criticism seriously. What he can do about the players not holding the ball on any particular day I dont fucking know.

[carl_feedthegoat]

I'd take Milner's view of the game as fair enough - written out over Chinner bollox.

- weren't good enough, didn't hold the ball, not ruthless enough (in away games in general).

That last point can be aimed at Mancini and that is a fair point, we have said it before and probably say it again. Unlike others I think Mancini's style is evolving in PL and I hope he takes the criticism seriously. What he can do about the players not holding the ball on any particular day I dont fucking know.

Milner should have a long hard look at his overall performance for us this seaosn before he opens his fucking mouth...he was the worst player on the pitch the other day.

[brite blu sky]

I'd take Milner's view of the game as fair enough - written out over Chinner bollox.

- weren't good enough, didn't hold the ball, not ruthless enough (in away games in general).

That last point can be aimed at Mancini and that is a fair point, we have said it before and probably say it again. Unlike others I think Mancini's style is evolving in PL and I hope he takes the criticism seriously. What he can do about the players not holding the ball on any particular day I dont fucking know.

Milner should have a long hard look at his overall performance for us this seaosn before he opens his fucking mouth...he was the worst player on the pitch the other day.

Ha, yeah that was my initial reaction as well, got a damn cheek coming out and saying anything after such a performance. But on reading it I thought at least it is honest, would have been better if he had said he was shit himself.
I get the feeling with Milner he has hardly ever been played where he wants to be, but then he has to prove his worth.. ultimately he looks at the ground or the ball too much for me. Think he may have hit his ceiling, sad cos I like him.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Milner should have a long hard look at his overall performance for us this seaosn before he opens his fucking mouth...he was the worst player on the pitch the other day.

Nasri and balotelli were worse for my money.

The sad thing is I'm not saying that to defend Milner either. He was shit too :(

[Swales4ever]

Mancio, the time to worry about re forming the midfield into a nice passing unit, is in June.

We were supposed to be trying to win the title. If that means putting Joe Hart on Micah Richards shoulders for half an hour in the Arsenal penalty area, then that's what we do. We don't worry that it's against our footballing priciples & that the owner may get upset, he won't, he'll have a party even if we win the league by bouncing the ball off the ref's head & vollying it.

The time for worrying about plans and intricate tactics has gone. We are getting mugged in a streetfight & we just got our wallet & phone nicked & our girlfriend felt up whilst we worried about sticking the boot in.

Nothing to argue on the above, fair enough and pretty much spot on.
As I said i am not trying to defend anything and I do not see any worth in insisting to make my point which is well stood by BBS with more obvious eloquence, btw.
But once discounted a fair right for any long suffering Blue to feel upset and want some good steam off, I simply can get why a fine analyst like You are fails (most probably don't want to see right now) to consider that the whole attacking personnel have imploded behyond any possible explaination. as you state in the other thread, even if deemed to a differnt sake, we have been missing anyone to lead the attacking line and I challenge any fair and competent fan to say he had expected (when the market closed in august) that mainly Dzeko but all other strikers in some ways would had dropped any glimpse of their talent to such an extent.
On the same line of reasoning I am quick to stand by your opinion that the dropping of Silva contribution is a big fault of Mancini's choice not to rest him at proper time. there is also an additional possible "HUGE FAULT" to be considered and understood, as suggested by You and Carl, and it's the eventual failure to impose the faith for his leadership: I certainly do not want to dismiss it, just I am nor prepared to concede it right now but it will be certainly shown up by how the players shall compete from now on.

Given the above, I really cannot see what a manager could have done to save the title, apart for going all out according to your suggestion: it would had certainly gained Your praise and pleased the pride of most of our brave fella, but hardly would had sorted it out.
an additional side point we have missed to evaluate is the understanding of how much the atmosphere created by the refereeing double standard have influenced the so called "give up": while I find it difficult to understand that the City players had gone "under pressure" because of the title expectation, I am much more keen to see how even influential professionals like Yaya, Dave and even Vinnie could have lost confidence by knowing that when You go to a place like Stoke they are allowed to elblow You freely but You are not entitled to fight them back, otherwise You are bound to end like a Mario twat and finish the game in 8. and this also knowing that meanwhile Taggart's men are going to dive a get a penalty and a senting off at the beginning of their game.
there is nothing a manager can do when pretty all his personnel give up and work lazy...

So back to square one, we have 6 games to understand whether the players had lost faith and respect for the manager or they had just mentally give up the fight for the title because they have somehow perceived it as simply not applicable.
In the latter case they will regroup once the pressure has pretty almost gone off and finish the season in style, possibly making their loving supporters proud at the derby, otherwise Khaldoon al Moubarack, PhD will make his final assessment.

[Ted Hughes]

But my point is that you don't know that it 'wouldn't have sorted it out', it may possibly have worked & changed the whole outcome of the league. To try it & fail would have been fair enough. To not try it & fail anyway is not good enough, you have to try everything.

Personally I think we would have won the game if we'd kept Nasri on & brought on two more attackers, probably Tevez & Dzeko.

We have looked great recently when fighting to come back from being several goals behind & Arsenal are the worst bottlers in the league. It's really very simple stuff & I'm afraid that Mancini is probably the only manager in the league, probably all the leagues, who wouldn't have tried to do that with the players available.

[Swales4ever]

If you worked in a place whereby the manager always lets off one of the workmates time after time after time after time but he absolutly nails a few others including getting rid of some for much much lesser offences.....dont you think you would pissed off and start wishing for another manager ?

I think it s a fair shout to say most players dont fuckign like him or dont respect his decisions at the very least.

Carl, I must beg Your pardon because I owe to reply on the fair point You raised above: You know, my slut mind always go wet when titillated by Ted arguments and I sidetracked a bit.

If I am not misunderstanding You hold shares of the business You work in, which basically means that all concerns and threats to its prosperity and the future of the people who fall behind your responsability are always seeking for You, even when You are shagging some of the countless birds that my mate Soccs benefits to Your credit: from such a basis You are in perfect position to understand what I mean.
If I was a craftman on wages that many CEOs of companies listed at NYSE or LSE can only dream of and I was earning them in my twenties by playing the most exciting game that God and the Englishmen have gifted to the world, I would have fucking jumped and twisted any time that any Official appointed by my Employers would dictate it.
when we were in our twenties... I was learning the biggest lesson my dad tought me, bursting my eyes on books at day and working as a fucking wop in a restaurant in London for less than a basic salary 6 nights a week, while You were probably flying the Union Jack at the Falklands or somewhere else learning Your trade at risk of Your own life.

this is not an argument, it is a fact that every healthy mind would agree with, no matter what politics you trust more. and I dont give a shit at what a rich football player feels when his manager picks the lineup he see best for the Club sake!

[Beefymcfc]

I'd take Milner's view of the game as fair enough - written out over Chinner bollox.

- weren't good enough, didn't hold the ball, not ruthless enough (in away games in general).

That last point can be aimed at Mancini and that is a fair point, we have said it before and probably say it again. Unlike others I think Mancini's style is evolving in PL and I hope he takes the criticism seriously. What he can do about the players not holding the ball on any particular day I dont fucking know.

Milner should have a long hard look at his overall performance for us this seaosn before he opens his fucking mouth...he was the worst player on the pitch the other day.

Ha, yeah that was my initial reaction as well, got a damn cheek coming out and saying anything after such a performance. But on reading it I thought at least it is honest, would have been better if he had said he was shit himself.
I get the feeling with Milner he has hardly ever been played where he wants to be, but then he has to prove his worth.. ultimately he looks at the ground or the ball too much for me. Think he may have hit his ceiling, sad cos I like him.

Fecking hell man, get your balls out of your piss-flaps. Milner hasn't had a decent run in the side since he was doing a sterling job back in ...... er ....... a long time ago. Let Milner take the stick when deserved, not when he's thrown into a game against a very good in-form team. That was Mancini's fault.

[brite blu sky]

I'd take Milner's view of the game as fair enough - written out over Chinner bollox.

- weren't good enough, didn't hold the ball, not ruthless enough (in away games in general).

That last point can be aimed at Mancini and that is a fair point, we have said it before and probably say it again. Unlike others I think Mancini's style is evolving in PL and I hope he takes the criticism seriously. What he can do about the players not holding the ball on any particular day I dont fucking know.

Milner should have a long hard look at his overall performance for us this seaosn before he opens his fucking mouth...he was the worst player on the pitch the other day.

Ha, yeah that was my initial reaction as well, got a damn cheek coming out and saying anything after such a performance. But on reading it I thought at least it is honest, would have been better if he had said he was shit himself.
I get the feeling with Milner he has hardly ever been played where he wants to be, but then he has to prove his worth.. ultimately he looks at the ground or the ball too much for me. Think he may have hit his ceiling, sad cos I like him.

Fecking hell man, get your balls out of your piss-flaps. Milner hasn't had a decent run in the side since he was doing a sterling job back in ...... er ....... a long time ago. Let Milner take the stick when deserved, not when he's thrown into a game against a very good in-form team. That was Mancini's fault.

Funny I'm sure Doug reported that Milner had a cracking training sesh the day before the Arse game as well. Just goes to show dunnit.

[carl_feedthegoat]

If you worked in a place whereby the manager always lets off one of the workmates time after time after time after time but he absolutly nails a few others including getting rid of some for much much lesser offences.....dont you think you would pissed off and start wishing for another manager ?

I think it s a fair shout to say most players dont fuckign like him or dont respect his decisions at the very least.

Carl, I must beg Your pardon because I owe to reply on the fair point You raised above: You know, my slut mind always go wet when titillated by Ted arguments and I sidetracked a bit.

If I am not misunderstanding You hold shares of the business You work in, which basically means that all concerns and threats to its prosperity and the future of the people who fall behind your responsability are always seeking for You, even when You are shagging some of the countless birds that my mate Soccs benefits to Your credit: from such a basis You are in perfect position to understand what I mean.
If I was a craftman on wages that many CEOs of companies listed at NYSE or LSE can only dream of and I was earning them in my twenties by playing the most exciting game that God and the Englishmen have gifted to the world, I would have fucking jumped and twisted any time that any Official appointed by my Employers would dictate it.
when we were in our twenties... I was learning the biggest lesson my dad tought me, bursting my eyes on books at day and working as a fucking wop in a restaurant in London for less than a basic salary 6 nights a week, while You were probably flying the Union Jack at the Falklands or somewhere else learning Your trade at risk of Your own life.

this is not an argument, it is a fact that every healthy mind would agree with, no matter what politics you trust more. and I dont give a shit at what a rich football player feels when his manager picks the lineup he see best for the Club sake!

For once I agree with you...I think.