English Players at City

[spiny]

Only a few years ago, England sides featured Hart, Richards, Lescott, Barry, Milner and Johnston. Rodwell and Sinclair were recruited but the English contingent has struggled to start at City. Only Hart will be down as a first choice selection for England at the World Cup in Brazil.

There was a camaraderie or clique between them, albeit no different from any group of same nationalities or similar culture. They came under scrutiny from Mancini and were not fancied by Pellegrini. The puzzling thing is why they have not made a greater impact?

AJ was shipped out because he didn’t show enough whilst Sinclair failed to show at all. Lescott is a solid defender but not good on the ball and lacking the mobility needed at the very top level. “Micah is made of glass” quoted Mancini. Rodwell shares Richards appalling injury record as well as questionable defensive awareness and ball skills. They need to regain fitness and prove themselves quickly.

Gareth Barry is the consummate professional, now strutting his stuff on loan at Everton with great success. This season we would have benefitted from his presence but few would argue Fernandinho is not an improvement. Like Lescott, he helped build the new City but is in the last year of his contract with limited future prospects at the club.

Milner remains an enigma. Very capable and energetic but with limitations, he is under-rated and over-rated in equal measure. Unless he ups his game he is likely to remain a supporting player, always at risk from players coming through.

The 2013 Joe Hart model failed to deliver and was ready to be sold. After a break and changes to his game, the 2014 version of Joe Hart has more than met expectations. Performances and even body language show he is making the transition that could see him become an all time great goal keeper as first choice for City and England for years to come.

It is important for City and football to have a quota of English players. The age, physical and skill attributes of players are important but application, drive, awareness and the mental strength to overcome adversity and consistently be a winner. Only Hart is showing these qualities at present.

There is no better opportunity than being at Manchester City. Training and every match should be an audition to play a part in the next game. Too many of our English players appear to be failing auditions so bringing their future into question. Time will tell if future English signings or EDS graduates make the grade.

[Renato_CTID]

Totally agree with you, mate! Even if I'm Italian I want to watch 4 or 5 English players in our beloved English club. Our identity is more important for me than anything else!

[Hazy2]

The Barry one is a failure by the club, Space was made for Garcia to blossom. Milner despite injuries was the apprentice to Barry. We see now Barry is missed and Garcia is Garcia.

[Ted Hughes]

The problem with that is, that very few of the current England team or the U21's, would get in our team, if any. We would have to 'dumb down' to accomodate them.

We will still have have 4 'home produced' players to fit that part of the squad quota at the moment, 3 of which are English: Hart, Milner, Rodwell (plus Clichy makes 4), so unless any of those leave, we don't actually need to sign any 'home produced' players to replace them, so only exceptional English players who improve our squad, will be considered.

The other 4 quota spots have to be 'club trained' so we can't sign any English players for those spots anyway apart from perhaps Daniel Sturridge.

We just have Micah & that's it.

So if there is to be an English heart to City's team, it will have to come from the EDS, which is not going to happen anytime soon.

We do however have promising English kids in all the various age groups.

The older EDS English kids with a chance would probably be Facey, Leigh (both will be fullbacks imo) Cole, Hiwula (both forwards) not sure about George Evans (midfield) but doing very well at Crewe.

All talented lads. Good enough for City ? Not sure but definitely worth trying out at the right moments. Would expect all of those to be in consideration for the 1st team squad next season but in the situation Lopes is in now; ie rare appearences.

Two fullbacks would be my shout for the most likely to make it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the strikers suddenly went up a level. It happens like that sometimes & they are definitely good, no doubt about it. Just not Aguero.

U18s off the top of my head: Smith Brown, Barker, Boadu, Bryan all very very talented & there are some more including a big centre back & a couple of midfielders whose names escape me, but thay all have a chance & I recon a couple will be stars.

Few of these are going to be first team regulars in the next few seasons though. They are not big units like Micah or Ned, so most would have to come through gradually to adjust to the physical side of the adult game.

Just forgot to to add, I don't give a toss where they come from. We have some great kids coming through & some of them are English, as well as Welsh & Irish. But we have loads of other nationalities, some of which are as good or better.

[MilnersJaw]

here is one of the problems. you completely write off lescott saying he cannot perform at the top level when in the title winning season he showed he could perform at that level.


Wasn't barrys biggest fan at all but i'd have him playing anyday over garcia and demi in the mid if we were not playing fernandinho or milner there or a 5 man midfield.

[Ted Hughes]

here is one of the problems. you completely write off lescott saying he cannot perform at the top level when in the title winning season he showed he could perform at that level.


Wasn't barrys biggest fan at all but i'd have him playing anyday over garcia and demi in the mid if we were not playing fernandinho or milner there or a 5 man midfield.

Barry & Lescott would both have got new short term contracts for me, but I don't think Txiki is going to hand out big money contracts to older players unless they are considered to be 'stars'.

Hart Kompany, Lescott, Barry, DeJong Tevez was the true spine of City's team imo. The others add the extra dimension.

[spiny]

here is one of the problems. you completely write off lescott saying he cannot perform at the top level when in the title winning season he showed he could perform at that level.


Wasn't barrys biggest fan at all but i'd have him playing anyday over garcia and demi in the mid if we were not playing fernandinho or milner there or a 5 man midfield.

I think you have misread what I wrote. You are looking at Lescott as a player 2 years ago when City were aspiring to be Champions of the Premier League. City's target is now Champions League as well as all other trophies. Succesful sides are moving to a style where the positions are more fluid and players have to be skilled on the ball and where weaknesses are more readily exploited.

Top teams now place more emphasis on attack with fast, tricky players and not always with a target man. Lescott is not so good in these situations and no longer a regular for England. How many really top teams would want to sign him? He is a good player who is entering the last phase of his career. He can do a job but is not at the level of Vincent Kompany who has developed into a great player with us and has set the standard for CB's at City.

I have always rated Gareth Barry.

[Ted Hughes]

here is one of the problems. you completely write off lescott saying he cannot perform at the top level when in the title winning season he showed he could perform at that level.


Wasn't barrys biggest fan at all but i'd have him playing anyday over garcia and demi in the mid if we were not playing fernandinho or milner there or a 5 man midfield.

I think you have misread what I wrote. You are looking at Lescott as a player 2 years ago when City were aspiring to be Champions of the Premier League. City's target is now Champions League as well as all other trophies. Succesful sides are moving to a style where the positions are more fluid and players have to be skilled on the ball and where weaknesses are more readily exploited.

Top teams now place more emphasis on attack with fast, tricky players and not always with a target man. Lescott is not so good in these situations and no longer a regular for England. How many really top teams would want to sign him? He is a good player who is entering the last phase of his career. He can do a job but is not at the level of Vincent Kompany who has developed into a great player with us and has set the standard for CB's at City.

I have always rated Gareth Barry.

Lescott is good enough to play in any organised defence but is not the kind of player Pellegrini wants. If however he had dropped the kind of bollocks Kompany did at Norwich, he would be slaughtered for it. as a defender, Lescott imo on average has probably been better than Kompany, but is not as good when Kompany is injured, as when Kompany is fit. Kompany also drops down a level without Lescott, but still on occasion plays at his best.

Game by game this season though, I would say once again that Lescott has had more good games defensively than any of the others.

[spiny]

here is one of the problems. you completely write off lescott saying he cannot perform at the top level when in the title winning season he showed he could perform at that level.


Wasn't barrys biggest fan at all but i'd have him playing anyday over garcia and demi in the mid if we were not playing fernandinho or milner there or a 5 man midfield.

Barry & Lescott would both have got new short term contracts for me, but I don't think Txiki is going to hand out big money contracts to older players unless they are considered to be 'stars'.

Hart Kompany, Lescott, Barry, DeJong Tevez was the true spine of City's team imo. The others added the extra dimension.

Agreed.

I suspect there is also some juggling of the books involved for FFP and future club finances with those on high pay and deemed not key to the "project" being shipped out.

We also have to accept policy is determined by our Spanish senior executives. Mancini has commented he did not see eye to eye with them and I recall quotes from a City player saying Pellegrini plays a Spanish style at City which could account for certain Latin players finding favour over their English counterparts.

[Ted Hughes]

here is one of the problems. you completely write off lescott saying he cannot perform at the top level when in the title winning season he showed he could perform at that level.


Wasn't barrys biggest fan at all but i'd have him playing anyday over garcia and demi in the mid if we were not playing fernandinho or milner there or a 5 man midfield.

Barry & Lescott would both have got new short term contracts for me, but I don't think Txiki is going to hand out big money contracts to older players unless they are considered to be 'stars'.

Hart Kompany, Lescott, Barry, DeJong Tevez was the true spine of City's team imo. The others added the extra dimension.

Agreed.

I suspect there is also some juggling of the books involved for FFP and future club finances with those on high pay and deemed not key to the "project" being shipped out.

We also have to accept policy is determined by our Spanish senior executives. Mancini has commented he did not see eye to eye with them and I recall quotes from a City player saying Pellegrini plays a Spanish style at City which could account for certain Latin players finding favour over their English counterparts.

All our kids play like that including the English ones. Mancini treated the whole system with disrespect putting his clueless mate in charge of the EDS & sticking his shit sons, & his shit sons' mates in the team.

I said at the time that I thought he was on thin ice with it & people, led by that fucking weirdo Mancini licker, thought I was just being anti Mancini.

The academy has been at the heart of everything Khaldoon has done since he arrived. When we put 6 past Bayern Munich, he was on the fucking pitch with Marwood & Vieira, shaking hands with the lads as they came off. That's how much it means.

[BlueinBosnia]

We will still have have 4 'home produced' players to fit that part of the squad quota at the moment, 3 of which are English: Hart, Milner, Rodwell (plus Clichy makes 4), so unless any of those leave, we don't actually need to sign any 'home produced' players to replace them, so only exceptional English players who improve our squad, will be considered.

The other 4 quota spots have to be 'club trained' so we can't sign any English players for those spots anyway apart from perhaps Daniel Sturridge.

We just have Micah & that's it.

Taylor is also 'homegrown', and Weaver would (as a third-choice keeper replacement) fit the 'club trained' category if we were desperate.

With homegrown/club trained, is there any restriction on nationality whatsoever? If not, I can see us continuing to look abroad for talent, as from what people write on here, the English schools' system, availability of public playing fields and general paranoia about kids being outdoors are hardly conducive to developing players that would benefit us.

[Fidel Castro]

English players are mostly a bit poo though, aren't they?

[Hutch's Shoulder]

English players are mostly a bit poo though, aren't they?

That does affect their chances of selection

[mcfc1632]

10 years from now I predict that we will be the saviour of and provide the foundation for the English national team.

Our academy will produce a significant number of young English born players and others that came from overseas but became qualified to play for England. No other environment exists or is planned that will develop players in such volumes and to such a level.

Meanwhile should CITY sacrifice their success by implementing some England quota system even if the current crop are not very good.?

A good question to ask is how many of the current England squad would be considered a 1st teamer for CITY (not squad player as England players seem not to settle for that)? For me the answer is only Baines at left back and Cahill to partner Vinnie.

Where England have gone wrong (IMO) is to have a policy of shipping straight into the national squad and 1st team any player that represents the scum and red scouse - how many caps have been stolen by the likes of Wes Brown (FFS) in the past and the likes of Cleverley, Smalling and jones (FFS!!!) nowadays?

The current squad is:

Goalkeepers
Forster, Ruddy, Hart
.
Defenders
Jones, Smalling, Jagielka, Walker, Johnson, Cahill, Baines, Cole, Gibbs,
.
Midfielders

Lallana, Barkley, Gerrard, Lampard, Wilshere, Henderson, Milner, Townsend, Cleverley,

Forwards

Lambert, Rodriguez, Defoe, Rooney, Sturridge,

[Blue Since 76]

Goalkeepers
Forster, Ruddy, Hart
.
Defenders
Jones, Smalling, Jagielka, Walker, Johnson, Cahill, Baines, Cole, Gibbs,
.
Midfielders

Lallana, Barkley, Gerrard, Lampard, Wilshere, Henderson, Milner, Townsend, Cleverley,

Forwards

Lambert, Rodriguez, Defoe, Rooney, Sturridge,

If you were building a team to compete for the PL title and in Europe, how many of them would you recruit? Forster and Hart, maybe. Baines, maybe Jagielka. Barkley as one for the future. Shrek and Sturridge.

It's no wonder the biggest teams look overseas. If the above was a PL squad, you'd think it could challenge for 4th, but no more than that.

[roblues]

Happy to see a bit of support for Lescott here - I think he has had the most unfortunate treatment of any of the English players. Signed for massive money in a protracted transfer dispute that drew onto him the wrath of opposition fans, dropped in and out of the side and made to play left back for his first couple of years, finally settled in at CB after Kolo's drug disaster and was, in my opinion, the stronger half of the pair when we won the title. Then benched again for a kid who 'looked' more comfortable on the ball after a mistake against QPR.

He wouldn't improve Chelsea and might struggle to get into the Arsenal team but anyone else in the league would be starting him. I would even go as far as to say they would pay in excess of £10 million for him if the contract situation was not as it stands.