john68 wrote:To clarify the issue.
Up and until the late 1970s, the club had always recognised and accepted the date of 1880 as our foundation date. 1880 was the date that St Mark's (West Gorton) was formed and their 1st fixture was played.
Sionce the late 1970s, the club officially accept the date of their foundation as 1894, 14 years later. This was the year that Ardwick AFC folded and the new club named Manchester City FC was formed.
The acceptance of the later date by City, denies our existance in those early 14 years, our foundation and our development into a Football league club. It denies the good efforts of our founders, Anna Connell, William Beastowe and Thomas Goodbehere and it denies the very reason we were born. It denies our club's trophy wins of 1891 and 1892 and even ignores our initial election to the Football league in 1892.
The founding of our club is a fascinating story. We were not just formed by a bunch of pissheads in a pub who fancied a game of footie. We were formed for a reason, we were formed in order to lift an area and its youth out of the gutter and give a meaning to the lives of the youth of West Goron. We were formed to take violence off the streets and give the local lads a purpose in life. We should be justly proud of why we were formed and the efforts of our founders to actually change lives.
Extract from Club History: 1875 - 1902
1880 St Mark’s Church forms a football team which would later evolve into MCFC.
1884 The first known ‘City shirt’ is created – in black, with a Maltese-style cross. Some say this is because of the club’s strong links with Freemasonry in the 1880s, others believe the white cross proves the link with St Mark’s was still strong.
1887 St Mark’s team evolves into Ardwick AFC and moves to Hyde Road.
1889 An explosion at the nearby Hyde Road coal mine results in the death of 23 miners – Ardwick and Newton Heath play a friendly match under floodlights in aid of the disaster fund.
1892 The second division of the English Football League is created, with Ardwick AFC as founder members.
1894 Ardwick AFC reforms as Manchester City Football Club, in a bid to represent the whole city.
1889 City finish champions of Division Two, becoming the first team to gain automatic promotion.
1904 The Blues beat Bolton Wanderers in the FA Cup final at Crystal Palace, becoming the first Manchester side to win a major trophy.
john68 wrote:Beefy,
Sorry Mate, I'd just come home from work, knackered and missed that part of your point completely. Hope this helps sort it.
The official web site is one of the few places where the club acknowledges the link beween the original St Marks and the present day club. Outside the site, it is usual for the club to publicise the later date of 1894. A point well made by Gary James in his book on Manchester football. In the club shop, there is actually a line of clothing containing the 1894 logo.
Why the decision was taken in the late 70s to change to the later date, is open to conjecture but it is my belief (which could be well wide of the mark) that Mr Swales didn't want our centenary (1980) to be celebrated at a time when the club was undergoing turmoil and for the 1st time in years, be seen to be failing. The Book era (as manager) was coming to a close and we near the bottom of the League.
I also believe that it was never changed back simply because it never became an issue and nobody questioned it. This is what I am trying to do now.
The 1894 date does have credibility as a founding date. Ardwick had failed and the new club, under the leadership of Joshua Parlby had to apply to the FL to remain in the league...as a new and seperate club. It was also the year that Manchester City became a limited company. The fact remains however that the new club was formed directly from the old one (Ardwick) with most of the same personnell, and at the same ground (Hyde Rd). The new club was simply the old club in a new guise.
Hope that little lot helps you.
Why the decision was taken in the late 70s to change to the later date, is open to conjecture but it is my belief (which could be well wide of the mark) that Mr Swales didn't want our centenary (1980) to be celebrated at a time when the club was undergoing turmoil and for the 1st time in years, be seen to be failing. The Book era (as manager) was coming to a close and we near the bottom of the League.
I also believe that it was never changed back simply because it never became an issue and nobody questioned it. This is what I am trying to do now.
Cheeky fucler! We have quite a wide audience on this site thank you very much.BobbyJ1956 wrote:This is good stuff. Please post the question and your argument on MCIVTA. I know people read both but many only see MCIVTA and it deserves a wide audience. Gary James goes on there quite a bit and he will probably reply if he sees his name mentioned in the post. Send it to Heidi, editor@mcivta.city-fans.org
King Kev wrote:Cheeky fucler! We have quite a wide audience on this site thank you very much.BobbyJ1956 wrote:This is good stuff. Please post the question and your argument on MCIVTA. I know people read both but many only see MCIVTA and it deserves a wide audience. Gary James goes on there quite a bit and he will probably reply if he sees his name mentioned in the post. Send it to Heidi, editor@mcivta.city-fans.org
mr_nool wrote:King Kev wrote:Cheeky fucler! We have quite a wide audience on this site thank you very much.BobbyJ1956 wrote:This is good stuff. Please post the question and your argument on MCIVTA. I know people read both but many only see MCIVTA and it deserves a wide audience. Gary James goes on there quite a bit and he will probably reply if he sees his name mentioned in the post. Send it to Heidi, editor@mcivta.city-fans.org
it seemslike a very active place,still advertising the bolton game ...
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