The kids tonight (in Ted's opinion).

[Ted Hughes]

Suarez: couldn't get into the game but imo is a talented lad & has got a lot bigger physically. Whether he can be a genius is a different matter but he can certainly be a quality footballer once he learns the tempo of the higher level. Did nothing good or bad tonight though; game passed him by.

Nastasic. 1st half had literally nothing whatsoever to do defensively on left of 3, & I mean nothing; ball hardly went near him. One header is all he was required to do defensively. Everything was in the middle & Lescott was doing all the defending there. Neat & tidy on the ball though. 2nd half Bob swapped him with Lescott (probably to test him more & see what he was made of). For about 10 mins, he was superb, covering brilliantly for slips by both Kolo & Lescott but then charged out of position twice, (2nd time Villa scored through the middle) & then instantly Bob took off Lescott either to protect him or to test Nasti even more in a back 4. From then on he was really truly dreadful; as bad or worse than Savic. One goal he just watched as the bloke ran straight through the middle, then another he became Stephen Jordan. I still think he's got all the potential but this was truly frightening stuff.

Razak: This was interesting because imo he was both the best & worse player on the pitch. Must have been caught in possession 5 times, once leading to a goal, but some of the other stuff he did made Barry & Milner (& Garcia) look like pensioners. So sharp at times. He really has got talent, much more imo than any of our def midfielders but he has a shocking habit of taking an extra 3 touches & trying to beat players in dangerous areas (over confident perhaps) which will be the finish of him unless he stops it. He did the same v rags' reserves last season & it helped lose us the game. If he sorts that though, he's 1st team material now imo.

[twosips]

So you're basically saying that Razak is the defensive midfielder version of Sturridge :)

[Ted Hughes]

So you're basically saying that Razak is the defensive midfielder version of Sturridge :)

No. he used the ball really well at times, much better than Barry or Milner, but he thinks he's playing in Mexico 1970 for Brazil at times & can just turn around in circles, poncing around on the ball & get away with it. Gets nailed pretty much every time he tries it.

If you took that out of the equation, I'd give him 8.5 out of ten. With it: 5.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I think we have a gem in Nastasic as long as he can keep his head down. He is bit naive occasionally but all the basic tools are there.

Suarez has got talent but doesn't have the killer instinct to get involved in game. I'd rather see youngster make few stupid mistakes trying to get involved in game than sulking just cause the game is so much faster than what he is used to. Reading all the reports he has these problems for Academy and Spain youth teams as well. Not good.

Which takes us to Razak. I really don't know what to make of him. On one hand he seems to have everything you want from promising young def mid. On the other he seems occasionally completely lost with ball on his feet and takes way too many touches. His ceiling is Barcelona while his floor is Barnet. Really REALLY needs to hone his ball skills and concentration. With that much raw material to work with, if he doesn't make it I really have to question our current youth set up. If there ever was diamond in rough....

[Goaters 103]

Razak can win a tackle, but wanted too much time on the ball so kept getting caught in possession. When that didnt happen he also gave the ball away far too cheaply. On last nights showing he played like Fitzroy Simpson - great at winning a tackle but utterly useless when in possession. One of the anchor midfielder's principle job descriptions is to gain possession, and then play the simple ball to the players who can actually play the game.

Suarez was anonymous. He's only a kid, granted, but he had zero impact on the game. Those around him certainly didnt help either and Im sure he will learn from it. We simply didnt have enough possession in the game, or a decent enough foothold in it whilst he was on the park, for him to have any major impact.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Razak can win a tackle, but wanted too much time on the ball so kept getting caught in possession. When that didnt happen he also gave the ball away far too cheaply. On last nights showing he played like Fitzroy Simpson - great at winning a tackle but utterly useless when in possession. One of the anchor midfielder's principle job descriptions is to gain possession, and then play the simple ball to the players who can actually play the game.

Suarez was anonymous. He's only a kid, granted, but he had zero impact on the game. Those around him certainly didnt help either and Im sure he will learn from it. We simply didnt have enough possession in the game, or a decent enough foothold in it whilst he was on the park, for him to have any major impact.

My problem with Suarez as stated above was that he didn't show kind of desire I want to see from kids. Sure older players didn't help him, and fuck them for not helping the kid, but what I wanted to see from him was that burning in the eyes that says "this is my fucking big chance and for better or for worse I will try to make my mark". It's that burning inside that separates talented kids from future stars.

In Nastasic I see that desire.

[Blue Since 76]

Thankfully, Nastasic was defending the opposite end of the ground for me in the second half so I've no idea how he played.

Suarez - game just passed him by. Too big a step up last night in a game we always struggled in midfield.

Razak - I was impressed. Yes he got caught in possession a few times, but that looked like the step up from reserves to a virtual premier league game. Again, I'd have to ask how much support or warning he got from those around him. At other times, he got himself out of trouble very neatly. He also tried a few nice balls to the forwards, none of which came off - a bit like Silva on Sunday. If he continues training with the first team and maybe gets a few appearances when we're winning games comfortably (does anyone remember those days?), I think he could be a real prospect.

[lets all have a disco]

Nastasic-Not ready, but composed when not under pressure a talent for the future.
Suarez-Passenger,needs to be more aware of the space around him and time on the ball.
Razak-All action,distribution is garbage,does all the hard work then messes up a 5 yard pass.

[Green & Blue]

Thanks for the run down Ted, did not get to see the game so nice to have an idea of how they performed.

They are the biggest losers from last night.The league cup was their best opportunity to get some playing time at a higher level, it's real pity for them.

[bobby brows]

Very insightful OP

I thought Suarez was anonymous too. Worse is that he didn't show the required movement to get involved.

Razak had good moments and bad moments but he faded badly from the hour mark. He did however play midfield on his own as Barry was a complete passenger and Milner had to play right back even when Kolo Toure was there.

At least we got to see Jeremy Helan.

[Ted Hughes]

I think we have a gem in Nastasic as long as he can keep his head down. He is bit naive occasionally but all the basic tools are there.

Suarez has got talent but doesn't have the killer instinct to get involved in game. I'd rather see youngster make few stupid mistakes trying to get involved in game than sulking just cause the game is so much faster than what he is used to. Reading all the reports he has these problems for Academy and Spain youth teams as well. Not good.

Which takes us to Razak. I really don't know what to make of him. On one hand he seems to have everything you want from promising young def mid. On the other he seems occasionally completely lost with ball on his feet and takes way too many touches. His ceiling is Barcelona while his floor is Barnet. Really REALLY needs to hone his ball skills and concentration. With that much raw material to work with, if he doesn't make it I really have to question our current youth set up. If there ever was diamond in rough....

I agree about Nastasic; for a spell of about 10 mins he looked like he could walk into the first team but he suddenly started to lose it & then he completely cracked up & was getting worse & worse. I think he may be lacking the required fitness for first team level & that could be the reason behind it. Whatever, something went wrong; badly wrong. It really was similar to a game when Stephen Jordan seemed to give up. Nastasic almost seemed as if he'd thrown the towel in last night.

(This began in normal time btw, before Villa's 3rd goal).

[Douglas Higginbottom]

The comments re Razak are the same as a year or two back.Good aggressive defensive midfielder but with a nasty habit of overplaying and losing the ball in key positions.He has been used to getting out of awkward situations with his strength but that's not easy to do at the top level.Not great with the ball but as long as he keeps it simple he is adequate.

Suarez remains an enigma to me.Clear talent but games can pass him by like last night and I have seen the same in some EDS/21's or 18's games.At least in those the rest of the team look to pass him the ball but in the first team he has to find spaces and demand it but he isnt very good at that.

[Goataldo]

(in Goataldo's opinion, just in case missed from inevitably dying 'match thread')

Nasti goes from looking very calm and composed beyond his years, to looking like a 19 year old who's being fast -tracked, well - a little too fast. Bit harsh to impose the 'make-or-break' situation of sticking him right in the firing line all the time, as it's a massive gamble, and depending on how certain match situations pan out, bits of fortune good and bad here and there, it could shatter his confidence, get the fans on his back, and basically write off his City career before it's had chance to get going. Possible pattern emerging here with Boyata, Savic (I firmly believe Nasti is far superior to Savic), and now possibly Nasti.

I'm surprised people are heaping praise on Razak relative to Suarez. Razak was more involved yes, but from where I was sitting he was more involved negatively that positively. Dwelled, miscontrolled, mis-passed, created scoring opportunities for Villa. Yeah he showed the odd flash, but if that was me out there, I'd be extremely pissed off with myself, given that there is quality under there which was outweighed by shite.

Actually thought the flashes of quality showed by Suarez were better than those of Razak, but maybe that's just me. What a shame we're talking about mere glimpses of quality.

[Sideshow Bob]

nastasic will be a winner for us as long as bob sticks with him and his confidence remains high. future pairing of nastasic and rekik could be immense!! then again - is rekik right or left-footed? can't remember.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

nastasic will be a winner for us as long as bob sticks with him and his confidence remains high. future pairing of nastasic and rekik could be immense!! then again - is rekik right or left-footed? can't remember.

Very very left footed

[Sideshow Bob]

nastasic will be a winner for us as long as bob sticks with him and his confidence remains high. future pairing of nastasic and rekik could be immense!! then again - is rekik right or left-footed? can't remember.

Very very left footed

cheers, doug.

[Blue Since 76]

I'm surprised people are heaping praise on Razak relative to Suarez. Razak was more involved yes, but from where I was sitting he was more involved negatively that positively. Dwelled, miscontrolled, mis-passed, created scoring opportunities for Villa. Yeah he showed the odd flash, but if that was me out there, I'd be extremely pissed off with myself, given that there is quality under there which was outweighed by shite.

Razak was on his own in midfield though almost all night. Barry clearly wasn't fit (so why did he play in Madrid?). Milner was pinned back when we had 3 at the back and then went to right back. Suarez was mostly anonymous and Kolarov scored a free kick and apart from that he, er, can't think of anything.

I'd like to see Razak get some games in a proper midfield when the team is performing before passing judgement. If last night is all he's gotten he's not good enough, but there were flashes there providing he can learn from his mistakes

[Ted Hughes]

I'm surprised people are heaping praise on Razak relative to Suarez. Razak was more involved yes, but from where I was sitting he was more involved negatively that positively. Dwelled, miscontrolled, mis-passed, created scoring opportunities for Villa. Yeah he showed the odd flash, but if that was me out there, I'd be extremely pissed off with myself, given that there is quality under there which was outweighed by shite.

Razak was on his own in midfield though almost all night. Barry clearly wasn't fit (so why did he play in Madrid?). Milner was pinned back when we had 3 at the back and then went to right back. Suarez was mostly anonymous and Kolarov scored a free kick and apart from that he, er, can't think of anything.

I'd like to see Razak get some games in a proper midfield when the team is performing before passing judgement. If last night is all he's gotten he's not good enough, but there were flashes there providing he can learn from his mistakes

The midfield was much much much worse with Milner & Barry compared to Razak & Barry (apart from Razak getting caught in possession). Conditions were bad & Milner, Tevez, Barry & most of Villa's midfield all passed the ball worse than Razak.

[PALUS]

I'm surprised people are heaping praise on Razak relative to Suarez. Razak was more involved yes, but from where I was sitting he was more involved negatively that positively. Dwelled, miscontrolled, mis-passed, created scoring opportunities for Villa. Yeah he showed the odd flash, but if that was me out there, I'd be extremely pissed off with myself, given that there is quality under there which was outweighed by shite.

Razak was on his own in midfield though almost all night. Barry clearly wasn't fit (so why did he play in Madrid?). Milner was pinned back when we had 3 at the back and then went to right back. Suarez was mostly anonymous and Kolarov scored a free kick and apart from that he, er, can't think of anything.

I'd like to see Razak get some games in a proper midfield when the team is performing before passing judgement. If last night is all he's gotten he's not good enough, but there were flashes there providing he can learn from his mistakes

The midfield was much much much worse with Milner & Barry compared to Razak & Barry (apart from Razak getting caught in possession). Conditions were bad & Milner, Tevez, Barry & most of Villa's midfield all passed the ball worse than Razak.

That Kid Suarez i catch him only few times because we dont have cups here until it s close to be over , i like him he had nice work rate and hes quick all that u need for let say next Silva , do he have that quality u watch him more.Is there a game that he shine .

[BlueinBosnia]

My problem with Suarez as stated above was that he didn't show kind of desire I want to see from kids. Sure older players didn't help him, and fuck them for not helping the kid

Like I said in another thread, I feel that had Balo and Dzeko got in to help him out more, he'd have panicked. The midfield seemed crowded and clumsy a lot of the time to me, and I don't think either of them dropping back/infield would have helped his predicament.