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We will all be behind the team on sunday, whoever is in goal. But if an Arse striker breaches our defence, and our defenders and fans are stood watching them go 1 on 1 with the keeper, thinking, hoping, it's at this exact point NOW .. everything relies NOW on the last line of defence .. the keeper .. is he going to save it?

Well I know who I'd rather have in goal at that moment in time to make that save, and I'm sure the defenders do too, and it's the one that makes a difference in that situation between win or lose.

My personal opinion is that honour matters more than anything and that Bravo must play if he has been led to expect to.
I’d rather not collect the pot than be ashamed by my club acting dishonourably, simple as that.

With reference to the dropping of Pantilimon following Hart’s ‘toys out of the pram’ mini-mutiny, well look where that got us?
Pantilimon was treated dishonourably, which was an embarrassment to all of us (and the club carries shame for that), and the game was still lost.

I hope Bravo gets his berth so that we can all walk tall regardless of the result.

Herb wrote:My personal opinion is that honour matters more than anything and that Bravo must play if he has been led to expect to.
I’d rather not collect the pot than be ashamed by my club acting dishonourably, simple as that.

With reference to the dropping of Pantilimon following Hart’s ‘toys out of the pram’ mini-mutiny, well look where that got us?
Pantilimon was treated dishonourably, which was an embarrassment to all of us (and the club carries shame for that), and the game was still lost.

I hope Bravo gets his berth so that we can all walk tall regardless of the result.

Not sure what this honour thing is about. Pantimilon was on top form, Hart wasn't. Ederson is one of the best out there and pep needs a first cup against a tough team that knocked us out last year.

Yes, bravo saved us at pens twice. That is the only arguement he had to start. Has he played well on the way? Not sure.

Difficult one but the fact that " in Spain keeper 2 plays cups no matter how shit he is " is a bollocks justification for potentially losing a cup final.

Nick wrote:

Herb wrote:My personal opinion is that honour matters more than anything and that Bravo must play if he has been led to expect to.
I’d rather not collect the pot than be ashamed by my club acting dishonourably, simple as that.

With reference to the dropping of Pantilimon following Hart’s ‘toys out of the pram’ mini-mutiny, well look where that got us?
Pantilimon was treated dishonourably, which was an embarrassment to all of us (and the club carries shame for that), and the game was still lost.

I hope Bravo gets his berth so that we can all walk tall regardless of the result.

Not sure what this honour thing is about. Pantimilon was on top form, Hart wasn't. Ederson is one of the best out there and pep needs a first cup against a tough team that knocked us out last year.

Yes, bravo saved us at pens twice. That is the only arguement he had to start. Has he played well on the way? Not sure.

Difficult one but the fact that " in Spain keeper 2 plays cups no matter how shit he is " is a bollocks justification for potentially losing a cup final.

If, as Pep has indicated, Bravo has been told he gets the domestic cup games then he should get them and I think he will because Pep has built his reputation by being an honest bloke and acting like a cunt would torch the relationship between him and the squad.
Doing the ‘right’ thing is important because it reinforces the character of a club - acting like twats is not a good look or a good feel and even if it brings good results they’re diminished to the point of embarrassment by the shameful way that they’re achieved.
If I wanted to support a club that had won plenty of trophies but had no honour then I’d have got on a different bandwagon many moons ago and it’s worrying that, as success comes towards us, some of our supporters start to look to the dark side for inspiration - I’d have liked to have thought that we were better than that.

Take some time to think about it and you’ll find you can live easier with the honourable course.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

mr_nool wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:You could argue that Bravo has been unlucky... you'd be wasting your time but you could.

For one reason or another he is regularly unable to stop shots... it adds up and the sum is he is shit.

Take last night's shot, he saw it coming, ie he had time to get himself set. If you look closely at him in the behind the goal camera, he jumps his weight to the right just as Grigg strikes, that left Bravo with just too much to do to throw himself left to get a hand to it. That weight re-position is basically a mistake - he shouldn't be doing that at that moment, it is a goalkeeping error. I suspect he does it a lot but i haven't checked.

To put it in perspective... in the Spuds v Juve game one of the goals left Buffon flat footed - why? b'cos he did exactly the same thing, shifted his weight at the wrong moment. But if you saw Buffon's reaction he was fuming with himself, he knew he made a mistake and he knew he could have gotten a hand to it if he hadn't made that movement.

Ederson is a cooler customer, stays calm and doesn't fidget around... as a result his positioning is superior and so he gets to more and save/ blocks more attempts.

Didn't Ederson do exactly the same for Liverpool's first goal?

Plus we have already established that Bravo's got a better save percentage (albeit against poorer opponents) than Ederson this season. In other words, Ederson does not save more.

I'm not saying that Bravo is better than Ederson – in my opinion he clearly isn't – but you can't just make up things to prove your point.

Ederson did and it is why he couldn't reach it. imo he should have got something on that... it wasnt a rocket.

No idea where the stats are that say Bravo has better save ratio ( is it including penalties by any chance )... suppose i'll take your word for it.

I have watched all City games this season and i can tell you when Bravo is in goal and someone is threatening to shoot.. i'm simply expecting a goal.
Ederson on the other hand i'm confident it might not be.

So where does that feeling come from, why do i think that ?

The stats came from taking each game, counting the number of shots on target against and then counting the number of goals conceded.

I miscounted yesterday when I posted them, I said there was 29 shots on target in the cups when there were actually 26, 7 conceded, so that makes it 73% rather than the 75% I posted yesterday.

I've had a look at Ederson's, 67% in the league and a remarkable 79% in CL, so overall that's 73%.

NB this post is not intended to claim that Bravo is better than Ederson or that I'd normally pick him over Ederson, it's just to clarify their numbers.

Thanks for that. Maybe as Noolie says the lack of confidence comes from his first season, although his handling of the Grigg shot didn't do much to dispel the idea he is any better really.

Anyway tbh this isnt the debate is it, we kind of all agree Ed is better. The debate is more about should PG honour his promise. On that i think he should for better or worse, he has no option as he will undermine himself if he goes back on it.

In which case i wish that PG would 'compensate' for that in his line up. ie. slightly adjust to not leave us exposed and bear in mind Bravo's playing out and distribution is not as good as Ed so have an extra mid drop to receive if we get pressed.

To summarise then, evrybody thinks Ed is the better keeper and wishes he was playing but don't expect him to, as Pep will stay a man of his word.
There's differing opinions on whether Pep's stance is correct.
Like a lot of other squad decisions, ultimately I hope and do trust that Pep knows his squad better than any of us including the overall mood and harmony within.
Keeping that balance is his job.

I think the truth of the Ed/Bravo situation is that our defence is not as good as we think it is and Ed's influence in making it look good is immense.
Take that confidence away, by replacing it with Bravo, who is a considerable level down and cracks appear in the back four.

Not all Bravo's fault, but defenders having to defend and make decisions where they they didn't have to think before, puts some of our less quick minded footballers under stress.

Ed allows us to play the way Pep wants us to and this cannot be overstated.

I understand honour and ethics.

I don't understand why a manger would determine his playing staff weeks/months before a game.

Bravo is on how much a week?

The team is decided based on form, objectives etc etc.

Monday meant we have one less chance of a trophy and showed that we are not "as good as we think" , ergo, pep should name a team the day before that is the best , at that time , of winning the cup.

Currently aguero isn't in that list (whole seperate debate). Would it be dishonourable to drop Sergio for Sunday? Personally if Jesus was fit, I don't think pep would start aguero.

Why is it any different to the keeper situation?

Get the league won and play bravo then.

Ultimately bravo may be sold in the summer with gunn as a more than adequate number 2 , with future prospects of challenging ederson (difficulty is ederson is so young and good)

People say we owe zaba, Vinnie and aguero nothing and there is no sentiment in football - but we will weaken our chances of winning a much needed cup by playing a keeper who has been here just 2 years, cost us many points last year and has no ties to the club? Why because pep allocates cup keepers?

To be clear, I don't think bravo has done much wrong this year as is probably the reason we have got to the final.

I'm just saying pressure has increased to win it, therefore take less risks. Results driven business, and play your best team.

If Bravo plays we'll be weaker for it.

If he doesn't pick his best players, and we lose, they'll be no mention of honour from the media and press, it'll be 2 cups we've 'lost' in a week. I'm praying they have no shots on target if Bravo plays.

Spider Legs wrote:If he doesn't pick his best players, and we lose, they'll be no mention of honour from the media and press, it'll be 2 cups we've 'lost' in a week. I'm praying they have no shots on target if Bravo plays.

Fine selection of sig there spiderlimbs but I thought you might have gone for Ian Mellor


https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... san-852918

Nick wrote:I understand honour and ethics.

I don't understand why a manger would determine his playing staff weeks/months before a game.

Bravo is on how much a week?

The team is decided based on form, objectives etc etc.

Monday meant we have one less chance of a trophy and showed that we are not "as good as we think" , ergo, pep should name a team the day before that is the best , at that time , of winning the cup.

Currently aguero isn't in that list (whole seperate debate). Would it be dishonourable to drop Sergio for Sunday? Personally if Jesus was fit, I don't think pep would start aguero.

Why is it any different to the keeper situation?

Get the league won and play bravo then.

Ultimately bravo may be sold in the summer with gunn as a more than adequate number 2 , with future prospects of challenging ederson (difficulty is ederson is so young and good)

People say we owe zaba, Vinnie and aguero nothing and there is no sentiment in football - but we will weaken our chances of winning a much needed cup by playing a keeper who has been here just 2 years, cost us many points last year and has no ties to the club? Why because pep allocates cup keepers?

Players seem to be picked on merit, except goalkeepers who are promised to be selected unconditionally for each competition, allocated at the start of the season.

Pep talk, Claudio please do not mess this up.

Well JC .. Ian Mellor was a hero of mine at the time because of his long legs and his long hair!! But YOU were the skipper at my very first City game Didn't want anyone thinking I'm a newbie at this! Full marks for spotting the 'handle'.

He's been better than last season but the standards weren't very high as we all know. It's a fascinating debate and there's excellent points being made on both sides of the argument. I'd put my money on Bravo starting, Pep wlll do the 'honourable' thing and we're just gonna have to hope we don't get exposed at the back.

I'd like to see Otemendi and Vinny in front of him. Stones is looking worryingly out of form and I'm not convinced by Laporte yet.

Bravo it will be on Sunday fact.

We are likely to have a Back 3, or 4, in front of him who have never played together this season. Sorry to say that’s a recipe for disaster on its own, complicated by Delph being banned. No doubt the Arse are going to target Zinchenko.

What troubles me is Bravo very rarely anticipates play, and comes off his line to play sweeper as effectively as Ederson does.

If our defence is breached, Arsenal will be clean through with Bravo most likely routed to the spot. We should prepare for this accordingly. We can’t play the same style with a fundamentally different Keeper in Net.

In retrospect it was a bit daft changing the defence and keeper for the Wigan game, we could have done with Vinny marshalling it, instead of Stones. I think we all felt even putting out our Kids we should still have beat the Pie munchers,I am not criticising Pep. No idea what has happened to Stones, he looked like City/England Captain material prior to that injury, now he doesn't even look 10% the player he was, the transformation is mind blowing.

A bit off topic, that bitter bastard Maureen has been at it again tonight, lecturing on losing gracefully, “Big club” etc, the hypocrisy of that eye gouging bastard knows no limits. How he comes out with the shit he does, whilst keeping a straight face really is amazing.

BT Sport called that dour, dull, watching paint dry viewing, a Maureen master class. If we had gone there failing to beat them, you know the narrative would have been so different, I despise paying these bastards and their army of Rag sycophants a Penny of my money. Unfortunately streams are getting harder, and harder to get, and when you do get them are becoming increasingly unreliable.I miss the days of free television (and porn ) with my Kryptview Box.I hate Richard Branson and those Nagra-vision encryption bastards .

zabbadabbado wrote:I despise paying these bastards and their army of Rag sycophants a Penny of my money. Unfortunately streams are getting harder, and harder to get, and when you do get them are becoming increasingly unreliable.I miss the days of free television (and porn ) with my Kryptview Box.I hate Richard Branson and those Nagra-vision encryption bastards .

Sign up to a VPN and foreign streaming service I.e fubo.tv and you'll get more value for your money than BT/Sky Sports. Don't think this can be deemed 'illegal'.either, if that bothers you.

bluemoon wrote:

zabbadabbado wrote:I despise paying these bastards and their army of Rag sycophants a Penny of my money. Unfortunately streams are getting harder, and harder to get, and when you do get them are becoming increasingly unreliable.I miss the days of free television (and porn ) with my Kryptview Box.I hate Richard Branson and those Nagra-vision encryption bastards .

Sign up to a VPN and foreign streaming service I.e fubo.tv and you'll get more value for your money than BT/Sky Sports. Don't think this can be deemed 'illegal'.either, if that bothers you.

Cheers mate will look in to that,

Didnt we have the exact same thread aboit willy in 2016 just before the final after we were hammered by chelsea with the kids? That turner out ok.

Ederson is clearly a better keeper but I would play bravo and i think pep will. Arsenal are playing ospina who is second choice(albeit prob closer to cech than bravo is to ederson but still).

If we play our a game we should still win even with me in goal.

Bravo will be a hero just watch.

Imagine if he makes a save on sunday, would be fantastic and make me so satisfied.