Ireland Speaks Out

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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Beefymcfc » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:19 pm

Nutzer wrote:
Citeh&Crew wrote:It's funny.. when I first decided to follow City, years ago, we as fans were happy to even compete with the big boys. We took pride in our Academy hopes, and blue collar attitude. And during that time, I emotionally, and erroneously formed an opinion that English fans were sophisticated and knowledgeable about their sport, than Americans were about their sports (e.g. American football, baseball, basketball).

Boy was I wrong.

As it turns out, English fans can be just as myopic, vitriolic, and STUPID as we "Yanks", and this thread proves it 100-fold.

You fools read Ireland's statements, but refuse to understand. There is more to what he is saying than penetrates you pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arses. Instead, you'd rather rip on his physical appearance; twist his words on how he was treated; or attempt to create a false argument concerning his opinion of money and young players. (Here is a hint for your dense bastards: Just because Stevie has some "bling", doesn't invalidate that many young players are morons when it comes to managing their new-found riches)

I've got news for you, you self confessed "myopic, vitriolic and STUPID Yank". We English fans didn't DECIDE to follow City, we just do because we love the club. I've loved this club for a very long time and I do not appreciate being called a "dense bastard", a "pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arse" because I feel aggrieved that a player leaving took our money but neither produced the goods nor cared that he didn't.
P.S. That's an example of how to state your opinion without resorting to name-calling, other than quoting you.

Fuck me, have I missed something? All of a sudden I'm a pint-guzzling (of course), mince-pie eating (don't like them), fat-arse (definately not), myopic (I can see through that)), vitriolic (maybe alcoholic) and stupid (thick as mince yes, stupid, not sure on that one).

Cheers Citeh&Crew, hopefully we'll never get to meet as I'm sure you won't be posting on here again ;-)
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Nutzer » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:22 pm

Kladze wrote:<<Makes mental not not to mess with Nutzer ;-) >>

BTW Nutzer , change the font colour - it's almost unreadable.






Ouch!

That better?
If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, it's just possible that you haven't really grasped the gravity of the situation.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:28 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:
Nutzer wrote:
Citeh&Crew wrote:It's funny.. when I first decided to follow City, years ago, we as fans were happy to even compete with the big boys. We took pride in our Academy hopes, and blue collar attitude. And during that time, I emotionally, and erroneously formed an opinion that English fans were sophisticated and knowledgeable about their sport, than Americans were about their sports (e.g. American football, baseball, basketball).

Boy was I wrong.

As it turns out, English fans can be just as myopic, vitriolic, and STUPID as we "Yanks", and this thread proves it 100-fold.

You fools read Ireland's statements, but refuse to understand. There is more to what he is saying than penetrates you pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arses. Instead, you'd rather rip on his physical appearance; twist his words on how he was treated; or attempt to create a false argument concerning his opinion of money and young players. (Here is a hint for your dense bastards: Just because Stevie has some "bling", doesn't invalidate that many young players are morons when it comes to managing their new-found riches)

I've got news for you, you self confessed "myopic, vitriolic and STUPID Yank". We English fans didn't DECIDE to follow City, we just do because we love the club. I've loved this club for a very long time and I do not appreciate being called a "dense bastard", a "pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arse" because I feel aggrieved that a player leaving took our money but neither produced the goods nor cared that he didn't.
P.S. That's an example of how to state your opinion without resorting to name-calling, other than quoting you.

Fuck me, have I missed something? All of a sudden I'm a pint-guzzling (of course), mince-pie eating (don't like them), fat-arse (definately not), myopic (I can see through that)), vitriolic (maybe alcoholic) and stupid (thick as mince yes, stupid, not sure on that one).

Cheers Citeh&Crew, hopefully we'll never get to meet as I'm sure you won't be posting on here again ;-)



From the land of the obese calling us English fat arses...............you couldnt make it up......... although he just did!
THEY SAY SWEARING IS DUE TO A LIMITED VOCABULARY. I KNOW THOUSANDS OF WORDS, BUT I STILL PREFER "FUCK OFF" TO "GO AWAY"
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Beefymcfc » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:33 pm

carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:
Nutzer wrote:
Citeh&Crew wrote:It's funny.. when I first decided to follow City, years ago, we as fans were happy to even compete with the big boys. We took pride in our Academy hopes, and blue collar attitude. And during that time, I emotionally, and erroneously formed an opinion that English fans were sophisticated and knowledgeable about their sport, than Americans were about their sports (e.g. American football, baseball, basketball).

Boy was I wrong.

As it turns out, English fans can be just as myopic, vitriolic, and STUPID as we "Yanks", and this thread proves it 100-fold.

You fools read Ireland's statements, but refuse to understand. There is more to what he is saying than penetrates you pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arses. Instead, you'd rather rip on his physical appearance; twist his words on how he was treated; or attempt to create a false argument concerning his opinion of money and young players. (Here is a hint for your dense bastards: Just because Stevie has some "bling", doesn't invalidate that many young players are morons when it comes to managing their new-found riches)

I've got news for you, you self confessed "myopic, vitriolic and STUPID Yank". We English fans didn't DECIDE to follow City, we just do because we love the club. I've loved this club for a very long time and I do not appreciate being called a "dense bastard", a "pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arse" because I feel aggrieved that a player leaving took our money but neither produced the goods nor cared that he didn't.
P.S. That's an example of how to state your opinion without resorting to name-calling, other than quoting you.

Fuck me, have I missed something? All of a sudden I'm a pint-guzzling (of course), mince-pie eating (don't like them), fat-arse (definately not), myopic (I can see through that)), vitriolic (maybe alcoholic) and stupid (thick as mince yes, stupid, not sure on that one).

Cheers Citeh&Crew, hopefully we'll never get to meet as I'm sure you won't be posting on here again ;-)



From the land of the obese calling us English fat arses...............you couldnt make it up......... although he just did!

I think the biggest point was made in the first line. When you decide to follow a team rather than support them, then you've not really got it in your blood, have you? And if a player leaving sends you into that sort of assault on other City fans opinions, then it does really make you wonder who he is supporting - the player or the club?
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby daveh1962 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:38 pm

If I was the Aston Villa manager I would be worried

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/St ... 33927.html

Stephen Ireland slams Kevin Keegan, Stuart Pearce and Sven Goran Eriksson

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 024033.ece

Stephen Ireland blames Mark Hughes for his loss of form at City

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... r-City.htm

STEPHEN IRELAND has slammed Roberto Mancini for failing to develop relationships with Manchester City players.

do you see a theme emerging here
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Beefymcfc » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:42 pm

daveh1962 wrote:If I was the Aston Villa manager I would be worried

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/St ... 33927.html

Stephen Ireland slams Kevin Keegan, Stuart Pearce and Sven Goran Eriksson

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 024033.ece

Stephen Ireland blames Mark Hughes for his loss of form at City

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... r-City.htm

STEPHEN IRELAND has slammed Roberto Mancini for failing to develop relationships with Manchester City players.

do you see a theme emerging here

Nice digging mate; I like that.

I usually always look for the common denominator in cases like this; I wonder who that could be?
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Citeh&Crew » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:53 pm

maf wrote:I remember when he first broke into the team and Ned and Micah would sing his praises , talking about his incredible technique and skill on the ball , and it allways left me wondering why the hell didnt we see it on match day . Then for that one great season we saw what we hoped would be the real deal , vision passing and an endless energy , but that promise quickly faded and the excuses started . It's clear Ireland isn't the sharpest tool in the box , and now the clubs moved forward he couldnt keep up . The same fight and determination we see in players like Kompany just doesnt seem to be there in Ireland . Ireland cant play well outside his comfort zone it seems , and untill he can , that talent of his will allways have severe limitations .
I'm pissed off with his parting shots , but more than anything they strike me as an insecure player trying to convince himself hes made the right move . I wish he could have sorted his head out and reached his full potential with city , if he had , without doubt he would of been pushing those around him hard for a starting spot , but we all know he didnt and for that he has no-one but himself to blame . Good luck to you Stevie I hope you resurect your career at Villa , I won't be booing you when you return but I do have a feeling that a year from now we might be hearing those excuses again .


Nice post. Too bad you're leaving out a few things.

We've had what.. three managers in four seasons? At least two of them valued Steven Ireland. And lest we forget, that great season he had was due to his diligence in the off-season AND the fact that he had the confidence of the manager.

When a player doesn't fit into a manager's plans, for whatever reasons, I would guess that trying to keep spirits while fighting for a starting spot that is nigh impossible to attain no matter what one does is more than a bit disheartening. And let's not assume that Steven was "crap" just for no reason; I am quite sure than Mancini made it apparent from the get-go that Stevie wasn't his type of player. Heck, if I as a FAN realized this within the first five games of Mancini's reign (i.e. his playing time went downhill), I am sure Ireland knew it within the first couple of weeks, at longest.

Look, people here, and probably on other City forums have a history of completely slagging a player once he leaves, and has a few things to say. Dunne's "parting shots" were far more tame, and he got slagged just as badly. Funny.. now Dunne has "revived" himself (as if he were ever on the down-swing with us) at Villa. Has Lescott even been half as good for us, as Dunne has been with Villa? You seriously don't think Ireland will do the same as Dunne at Villa?

Bellers is another person who has received some "stick" on these boards.. it's as if people have forgotten what he did for us in his brief time. I'll never forget his heroics at Old Trafford (despite it being a losing effort). He is a quality player, well one par IMO with any of what we have right now, including Mario and Tevez. It's just too bad that his knees won't allow him to play a full season. Regardless, I still think he would be invaluable as a member of our club.

Bottom line is that people here are too critical, and have a sense of entitlement, now that the club have seemingly limitless funds to play with. I personally value players that come up through the academy (even if they drive me nuts at times, a la Micah) and provide a more personal link to the fans. When I visited London, and went around to various grounds and spoke to fans in the respective communities, I was really struck by how attached fans were to their respective teams. It wasn't just a game, for a lot of fans, and their club(s) seemed to be part of how they defined themselves.

But of course, I guess that kind of devotion can turn ugly as well, can't it? After all, if a player isn't producing, or acts out for whatever reasons, he is "shit", even if he has been a loyal person and hard-worker, who has generally performed well (i.e. Dunney). And money generally magnifies that behavior among fans.

How can there be any loyalty or genuine reciprocation of appreciation between fans, players, and management under these conditions? Yes, I understand that this is a "results-driven" business, but even then, there has to be some foundation for loyalty and respect, or ultimately, we as fans become no better than a bunch of people rooting for mercenaries.

I can just see it: We cheer the mercenaries and praise them as "true blue" as long as they produce, while the players claim to be "loyal servants" as long as they get paid.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby daveh1962 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:02 pm

Citeh&Crew wrote:
maf wrote:I remember when he first broke into the team and Ned and Micah would sing his praises , talking about his incredible technique and skill on the ball , and it allways left me wondering why the hell didnt we see it on match day . Then for that one great season we saw what we hoped would be the real deal , vision passing and an endless energy , but that promise quickly faded and the excuses started . It's clear Ireland isn't the sharpest tool in the box , and now the clubs moved forward he couldnt keep up . The same fight and determination we see in players like Kompany just doesnt seem to be there in Ireland . Ireland cant play well outside his comfort zone it seems , and untill he can , that talent of his will allways have severe limitations .
I'm pissed off with his parting shots , but more than anything they strike me as an insecure player trying to convince himself hes made the right move . I wish he could have sorted his head out and reached his full potential with city , if he had , without doubt he would of been pushing those around him hard for a starting spot , but we all know he didnt and for that he has no-one but himself to blame . Good luck to you Stevie I hope you resurect your career at Villa , I won't be booing you when you return but I do have a feeling that a year from now we might be hearing those excuses again .


Nice post. Too bad you're leaving out a few things.

We've had what.. three managers in four seasons? At least two of them valued Steven Ireland. And lest we forget, that great season he had was due to his diligence in the off-season AND the fact that he had the confidence of the manager.

When a player doesn't fit into a manager's plans, for whatever reasons, I would guess that trying to keep spirits while fighting for a starting spot that is nigh impossible to attain no matter what one does is more than a bit disheartening. And let's not assume that Steven was "crap" just for no reason; I am quite sure than Mancini made it apparent from the get-go that Stevie wasn't his type of player. Heck, if I as a FAN realized this within the first five games of Mancini's reign (i.e. his playing time went downhill), I am sure Ireland knew it within the first couple of weeks, at longest.

Look, people here, and probably on other City forums have a history of completely slagging a player once he leaves, and has a few things to say. Dunne's "parting shots" were far more tame, and he got slagged just as badly. Funny.. now Dunne has "revived" himself (as if he were ever on the down-swing with us) at Villa. Has Lescott even been half as good for us, as Dunne has been with Villa? You seriously don't think Ireland will do the same as Dunne at Villa?

Bellers is another person who has received some "stick" on these boards.. it's as if people have forgotten what he did for us in his brief time. I'll never forget his heroics at Old Trafford (despite it being a losing effort). He is a quality player, well one par IMO with any of what we have right now, including Mario and Tevez. It's just too bad that his knees won't allow him to play a full season. Regardless, I still think he would be invaluable as a member of our club.

Bottom line is that people here are too critical, and have a sense of entitlement, now that the club have seemingly limitless funds to play with. I personally value players that come up through the academy (even if they drive me nuts at times, a la Micah) and provide a more personal link to the fans. When I visited London, and went around to various grounds and spoke to fans in the respective communities, I was really struck by how attached fans were to their respective teams. It wasn't just a game, for a lot of fans, and their club(s) seemed to be part of how they defined themselves.

But of course, I guess that kind of devotion can turn ugly as well, can't it? After all, if a player isn't producing, or acts out for whatever reasons, he is "shit", even if he has been a loyal person and hard-worker, who has generally performed well (i.e. Dunney). And money generally magnifies that behavior among fans.

How can there be any loyalty or genuine reciprocation of appreciation between fans, players, and management under these conditions? Yes, I understand that this is a "results-driven" business, but even then, there has to be some foundation for loyalty and respect, or ultimately, we as fans become no better than a bunch of people rooting for mercenaries.

I can just see it: We cheer the mercenaries and praise them as "true blue" as long as they produce, while the players claim to be "loyal servants" as long as they get paid.


Look at how Ireland has described his managers would you call that loyal..When have any players shown loyalty the moment a better offer comes from another club they are off. Ireland has had one good season and admits that he was not interested last year and it showed. Where is his professionalism. They are all mercenaries they enjoy what football gets them but to them its a job and yes provided they produce for my club I will cheer them to the rafters.

It has nothing to do with money I supported the players when we were in the old Division as long as they show they care for my club when they are playing I have had no issue with quality for we have had many years of shocking quality but as long as the players gave all they had I was satified. Clearly for 2 out of 3 years and pre season this Ireland only played well when HE felt like it which is not on
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Citeh&Crew » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:06 pm

Nutzer wrote:
Citeh&Crew wrote:It's funny.. when I first decided to follow City, years ago, we as fans were happy to even compete with the big boys. We took pride in our Academy hopes, and blue collar attitude. And during that time, I emotionally, and erroneously formed an opinion that English fans were sophisticated and knowledgeable about their sport, than Americans were about their sports (e.g. American football, baseball, basketball).

Boy was I wrong.

As it turns out, English fans can be just as myopic, vitriolic, and STUPID as we "Yanks", and this thread proves it 100-fold.

You fools read Ireland's statements, but refuse to understand. There is more to what he is saying than penetrates you pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arses. Instead, you'd rather rip on his physical appearance; twist his words on how he was treated; or attempt to create a false argument concerning his opinion of money and young players. (Here is a hint for your dense bastards: Just because Stevie has some "bling", doesn't invalidate that many young players are morons when it comes to managing their new-found riches)

I've got news for you, you self confessed "myopic, vitriolic and STUPID Yank". We English fans didn't DECIDE to follow City, we just do because we love the club. I've loved this club for a very long time and I do not appreciate being called a "dense bastard", a "pint-guzzling, mince-pie eating fat-arse" because I feel aggrieved that a player leaving took our money but neither produced the goods nor cared that he didn't.
P.S. That's an example of how to state your opinion without resorting to name-calling, other than quoting you.


Ahh, yes. You see, the "vitriol" is one of the few things that actually gets attention here. It seems that reason in dialogue rarely seems to be returned, when one tries. Thanks for proving my point, you "pint-guzzling fat-arsed jackass". Are you bald too? Because in that case, maybe I should call you a "turtle-head" and say, "oi yer bald! oi oi yer going bald". (What the hell is that anyway? Is it some kind of f-ed up dialect of english?)

Case-in-point: How many times have fans called Stevie, Dunne, Bellamy or even Tevez (albeit briefly) a "cunt" and/or told him to "fuck off", among other insults, when they have had a dispute with club or manager? It doesn't even take much to set some of the "mongs" off. It could be simply, for example, Tevez complaining about 2x training days in the middle of the season.

Anyway, I am simply calling things as I see it. Steven said some negative things about the club, and in retrospect, I don't blame him given how the club has morphed over the past three years. Fans generally don't want to examine both sides of the coin, and people in this thread prove it well.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Citeh&Crew » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:12 pm

daveh1962 wrote:Look at how Ireland has described his managers would you call that loyal..When have any players shown loyalty the moment a better offer comes from another club they are off. Ireland has had one good season and admits that he was not interested last year and it showed. Where is his professionalism. They are all mercenaries they enjoy what football gets them but to them its a job and yes provided they produce for my club I will cheer them to the rafters.

It has nothing to do with money I supported the players when we were in the old Division as long as they show they care for my club when they are playing I have had no issue with quality for we have had many years of shocking quality but as long as the players gave all they had I was satified. Clearly for 2 out of 3 years and pre season this Ireland only played well when HE felt like it which is not on


I don't believe that for a second. One thing I would agree about with Steven, is that he is somewhat mentally fragile. However, that doesn't excuse the inexplicable treatment he has received from Mancini, and at times from Hughes before him. People here who know Steven in some capacity have stated that he would just about die for the club, so something must have gone terribly awry for him to say the things he did. What, you think he went to crap after a fantastic season, for no reason? I agree, he looked listless on the pitch this past season, but there is something behind that. As I said, if one knows that any efforts to gain a starting spot, or even significant playing time, are in vain, then that person is eventually going to become indifferent on and off the pitch. It's a natural human reaction. But of course, I am SURE that fans here (to make a comparison) would stay in an organization that they loved, even if at some point, that organization began to treat them like so much dung. Right? Please...
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby maf » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Citeh&Crew I don't think I was overly critical of Ireland , the truth is no matter what the circumstances Ireland has only briefly reached anything like his full potential at city , and wasn't able to sustain it . From Pearce to Mancini Ireland has sledom reached the heights and often underacheived . It leaves me with the impression that whatever Ireland needs to suceed it cant be provided by a manager alone .
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Dameerto » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:42 pm

colonel_muck wrote:things like this really worry me though, last week robbie savage said he played a game for birmingham where he didn't try cos he wanted to join blackburn, and now this with stevie. there are so many egos in our team it is surely a very real danger that this is what we are faced with?


Compare it with Milner's farewell appearance for Villa though, I think that's the kind of attitude Mancini is hoping for.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Wooders » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:43 pm

Citeh&Crew wrote:
maf wrote:I remember when he first broke into the team and Ned and Micah would sing his praises , talking about his incredible technique and skill on the ball , and it allways left me wondering why the hell didnt we see it on match day . Then for that one great season we saw what we hoped would be the real deal , vision passing and an endless energy , but that promise quickly faded and the excuses started . It's clear Ireland isn't the sharpest tool in the box , and now the clubs moved forward he couldnt keep up . The same fight and determination we see in players like Kompany just doesnt seem to be there in Ireland . Ireland cant play well outside his comfort zone it seems , and untill he can , that talent of his will allways have severe limitations .
I'm pissed off with his parting shots , but more than anything they strike me as an insecure player trying to convince himself hes made the right move . I wish he could have sorted his head out and reached his full potential with city , if he had , without doubt he would of been pushing those around him hard for a starting spot , but we all know he didnt and for that he has no-one but himself to blame . Good luck to you Stevie I hope you resurect your career at Villa , I won't be booing you when you return but I do have a feeling that a year from now we might be hearing those excuses again .


Nice post. Too bad you're leaving out a few things.

We've had what.. three managers in four seasons? At least two of them valued Steven Ireland. And lest we forget, that great season he had was due to his diligence in the off-season AND the fact that he had the confidence of the manager.

When a player doesn't fit into a manager's plans, for whatever reasons, I would guess that trying to keep spirits while fighting for a starting spot that is nigh impossible to attain no matter what one does is more than a bit disheartening. And let's not assume that Steven was "crap" just for no reason; I am quite sure than Mancini made it apparent from the get-go that Stevie wasn't his type of player. Heck, if I as a FAN realized this within the first five games of Mancini's reign (i.e. his playing time went downhill), I am sure Ireland knew it within the first couple of weeks, at longest.

Look, people here, and probably on other City forums have a history of completely slagging a player once he leaves, and has a few things to say. Dunne's "parting shots" were far more tame, and he got slagged just as badly. Funny.. now Dunne has "revived" himself (as if he were ever on the down-swing with us) at Villa. Has Lescott even been half as good for us, as Dunne has been with Villa? You seriously don't think Ireland will do the same as Dunne at Villa?

Bellers is another person who has received some "stick" on these boards.. it's as if people have forgotten what he did for us in his brief time. I'll never forget his heroics at Old Trafford (despite it being a losing effort). He is a quality player, well one par IMO with any of what we have right now, including Mario and Tevez. It's just too bad that his knees won't allow him to play a full season. Regardless, I still think he would be invaluable as a member of our club.

Bottom line is that people here are too critical, and have a sense of entitlement, now that the club have seemingly limitless funds to play with. I personally value players that come up through the academy (even if they drive me nuts at times, a la Micah) and provide a more personal link to the fans. When I visited London, and went around to various grounds and spoke to fans in the respective communities, I was really struck by how attached fans were to their respective teams. It wasn't just a game, for a lot of fans, and their club(s) seemed to be part of how they defined themselves.

But of course, I guess that kind of devotion can turn ugly as well, can't it? After all, if a player isn't producing, or acts out for whatever reasons, he is "shit", even if he has been a loyal person and hard-worker, who has generally performed well (i.e. Dunney). And money generally magnifies that behavior among fans.

How can there be any loyalty or genuine reciprocation of appreciation between fans, players, and management under these conditions? Yes, I understand that this is a "results-driven" business, but even then, there has to be some foundation for loyalty and respect, or ultimately, we as fans become no better than a bunch of people rooting for mercenaries.

I can just see it: We cheer the mercenaries and praise them as "true blue" as long as they produce, while the players claim to be "loyal servants" as long as they get paid.



sorry but one good season out of 5 is not good enough - Micah, who should be endeared to our hearts just as much as Ireland (possibly more so, as he stuck by City when everyone thought he would be the next big thing) gets haranged for it yet Ireland seems to get this love-in - Ireland is a good player who has many faults to his game - all of which are in his head - he is a weakminded person who makes excuses by blaming everyone around him rather than himself - once he realises that he is the big part of the problem, he'll develop - I can't see it happening though
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Bluez » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:51 pm

This is just a very sad episode. Ireland has always been one of my favourite players but even I was saying he should go. I think the most pertinant thing I heard from the club was that on ability he was one of the top 5 in the club, on mental strength he was bottom five. Unfortunately where we are going we need mental strength as well. Never mind that he has struggled to perform regularly for a number of city managers, and his best season was under one he later slagged of for not having confidence in him. But he also messed up with Ireland and that is a completely different set up where he again failed to shine.
He just has to go onto the long list of players that didn't fulfil thier potential. I am not going to hold his comments against him, as I think he is just very insecure and is not the sharpest tool in the box.

Good luck Stevie,
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Citeh&Crew » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:08 pm

Wooders wrote:sorry but one good season out of 5 is not good enough - Micah, who should be endeared to our hearts just as much as Ireland (possibly more so, as he stuck by City when everyone thought he would be the next big thing) gets haranged for it yet Ireland seems to get this love-in - Ireland is a good player who has many faults to his game - all of which are in his head - he is a weakminded person who makes excuses by blaming everyone around him rather than himself - once he realises that he is the big part of the problem, he'll develop - I can't see it happening though


I agree with some of your statements, but you are insinuating that other than the one great season Steven had, he was total crap in the other four. Not true.

As for Micah? I hope and hope that he someday turns things around. I WANT him to succeed as a Manchester City product. However, he is far more fallible in games than Steven ever was, IMO. He makes the same on-field mistakes over and over, and doesn't seem to learn, and I think that is why he receives more criticism.

And just to make one case-in-point: How many times over the past.. let's say two seasons (so that we can truly recall without too much haziness) have you seen Micah make a dumb foul somewhere right outside the box, so as to provide the opposition a dangerous free-kick? For me, it's as if he does it at least once every couple of games, if not more. Literally, that often. And the reason he makes such clumsy tackles is because for whatever reasons, he gets caught out-of-position against quick forwards or midfielders, and has to do so, or risk letting someone free to dribble in the box. Now, part of this goes back to something I have stated in the past, which is that Micah is not quick with lateral movement, is thus very vulnerable against smaller, lightning fast forwards who can take him 1v1. This weakness is not so apparent when Micah is actually IN SHAPE (which he is not sometimes), but when he is out-of-shape, he looks like an ox trying to guard a cheetah. No contest. Thus, part of Micah's problems, IMO is that he does not dedicate himself to: a) learning and b) staying fit. Eventually, his natural athleticism will decline with age&injury, so I hope he learns soon.

Sorry to get off topic...
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Bluez » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:16 pm

Citeh&Crew wrote:
Wooders wrote:sorry but one good season out of 5 is not good enough - Micah, who should be endeared to our hearts just as much as Ireland (possibly more so, as he stuck by City when everyone thought he would be the next big thing) gets haranged for it yet Ireland seems to get this love-in - Ireland is a good player who has many faults to his game - all of which are in his head - he is a weakminded person who makes excuses by blaming everyone around him rather than himself - once he realises that he is the big part of the problem, he'll develop - I can't see it happening though


I agree with some of your statements, but you are insinuating that other than the one great season Steven had, he was total crap in the other four. Not true.

As for Micah? I hope and hope that he someday turns things around. I WANT him to succeed as a Manchester City product. However, he is far more fallible in games than Steven ever was, IMO. He makes the same on-field mistakes over and over, and doesn't seem to learn, and I think that is why he receives more criticism.

And just to make one case-in-point: How many times over the past.. let's say two seasons (so that we can truly recall without too much haziness) have you seen Micah make a dumb foul somewhere right outside the box, so as to provide the opposition a dangerous free-kick? For me, it's as if he does it at least once every couple of games, if not more. Literally, that often. And the reason he makes such clumsy tackles is because for whatever reasons, he gets caught out-of-position against quick forwards or midfielders, and has to do so, or risk letting someone free to dribble in the box. Now, part of this goes back to something I have stated in the past, which is that Micah is not quick with lateral movement, is thus very vulnerable against smaller, lightning fast forwards who can take him 1v1. This weakness is not so apparent when Micah is actually IN SHAPE (which he is not sometimes), but when he is out-of-shape, he looks like an ox trying to guard a cheetah. No contest. Thus, part of Micah's problems, IMO is that he does not dedicate himself to: a) learning and b) staying fit. Eventually, his natural athleticism will decline with age&injury, so I hope he learns soon.

Sorry to get off topic...

This isn't off topic, it's the other side of the coin. Ireland won't make it because he is mentally weak, but he is a hugely skillful player which makes fans jump of their seats so we love him, we try to bend the team and teh formation to cater for him. But shouldn't we be looking for hugely skillful players who are more flexible?
Micah has the mental strength but it is not clear if he has the ability, we all hope he will because it would mean an academy product still being in the team.
But ultimately we want to be a top 4 club, our academy has not produced one player that was successful at a top 4 club, so maybe our academy (and its products) is not as good as we hoped.
Its served an excellent purpose keeping the club running when we were mid table but maybe not good enough for where we want to go.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Wooders » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:18 pm

I don''t want to turn this into a micah debate but he's a defender its easier to spot mistakes, and easier for him to make them over someone whose primary role is to attack

anyway - like I say, there is no questioning Stevies talent - mentally though, he doesn't have it
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Citeh&Crew » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:21 pm

Bluez wrote:This isn't off topic, it's the other side of the coin. Ireland won't make it because he is mentally weak, but he is a hugely skillful player which makes fans jump of their seats so we love him, we try to bend the team and teh formation to cater for him. But shouldn't we be looking for hugely skillful players who are more flexible?
Micah has the mental strength but it is not clear if he has the ability, we all hope he will because it would mean an academy product still being in the team.
But ultimately we want to be a top 4 club, our academy has not produced one player that was successful at a top 4 club, so maybe our academy (and its products) is not as good as we hoped.
Its served an excellent purpose keeping the club running when we were mid table but maybe not good enough for where we want to go.


Sadly, you may be correct. Perhaps our Academy simply has not been good enough to produce products that are comparable to what the club can now buy at will. Who knows, maybe our academy will follow suit by pouring enough money into it, so that our academy kids are good enough to play with the first team.

As for skillful players who are "more flexible", yes, we have been looking for, and found a few. Perfect example of a flexible midfielder is Silva.

Good conversation.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Ted Hughes » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:23 pm

Citeh&Crew wrote:
daveh1962 wrote:Look at how Ireland has described his managers would you call that loyal..When have any players shown loyalty the moment a better offer comes from another club they are off. Ireland has had one good season and admits that he was not interested last year and it showed. Where is his professionalism. They are all mercenaries they enjoy what football gets them but to them its a job and yes provided they produce for my club I will cheer them to the rafters.

It has nothing to do with money I supported the players when we were in the old Division as long as they show they care for my club when they are playing I have had no issue with quality for we have had many years of shocking quality but as long as the players gave all they had I was satified. Clearly for 2 out of 3 years and pre season this Ireland only played well when HE felt like it which is not on


I don't believe that for a second. One thing I would agree about with Steven, is that he is somewhat mentally fragile. However, that doesn't excuse the inexplicable treatment he has received from Mancini, and at times from Hughes before him. People here who know Steven in some capacity have stated that he would just about die for the club, so something must have gone terribly awry for him to say the things he did. What, you think he went to crap after a fantastic season, for no reason? I agree, he looked listless on the pitch this past season, but there is something behind that. As I said, if one knows that any efforts to gain a starting spot, or even significant playing time, are in vain, then that person is eventually going to become indifferent on and off the pitch. It's a natural human reaction. But of course, I am SURE that fans here (to make a comparison) would stay in an organization that they loved, even if at some point, that organization began to treat them like so much dung. Right? Please...


If by 'inexplicable treatment' you mean making him train with the reserves as he was being sold then I agree, there was no need for it. That doesn't merit his outburst saying he couldn't be arsed whether we won or lost last season unless he started, or that we were trying to replace him for years.

If you're not referring to that incident please define 'inexplicable treatment'.
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Re: Ireland Speaks Out

Postby Original Dub » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Bluez wrote:This is just a very sad episode. Ireland has always been one of my favourite players but even I was saying he should go. I think the most pertinant thing I heard from the club was that on ability he was one of the top 5 in the club, on mental strength he was bottom five. Unfortunately where we are going we need mental strength as well. Never mind that he has struggled to perform regularly for a number of city managers, and his best season was under one he later slagged of for not having confidence in him. But he also messed up with Ireland and that is a completely different set up where he again failed to shine.
He just has to go onto the long list of players that didn't fulfil thier potential. I am not going to hold his comments against him, as I think he is just very insecure and is not the sharpest tool in the box.

Good luck Stevie,


Good post mate, but you couldn't be more wrong with the part I highlighted.
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