I actually want rid now

[john68]

@ Flixton Blue....You may not understand this but I'll try and explain...This is a City discussion forum and not a lavatory. It is a place where debate, issues, points, and opinions are exchanged. You have come on and used it as a lavatory...Walked in, dumped your shit, wiped your arse and left a smell, before wandering back out again.
You made a statement...it is up to you too qualify that statement with facts, not ours to prove you wrong. Beyond that I couldn't give a fuck mate.

@ Piccs,
Over the last few days mate, I have been giving the present situation a lot of thought. The debate on here, as was the Hughes one just over 12 months ago is absolutely useless. We can go into the minutiae of the pros and cons, discuss and debate the good and the bad and to what end?
Last year I argued for Hughes to stay for much the same reasons as now. To allow him to put right what wasn't and to improve what wasn't yet good enough. I argued that to expect any manager to get it all right at the 1st attempt was ludicrous and that it would take time. I still have that opinion, yet this time regarding Mancini.
Last year I said quite clearly that if we sack Hughes, a new manager would have to go through a similar process of demolition and rebuilding. He would have to do those hard yards. I said that should Hughes go, we would be in exactly the same position 12 months later....and now 12 months later, we are in that same position.
I haven't a clue if Mancini will ever succeed, nobody has. but should he be sacked, IN 12 MONTHS TIME, WE WILL BE IN EXACTLY THE SAME POSITION AGAIN, AS WE ARE NOW....and that will be 2 years lost. The little impatient lambs on here will be again bleating and demanding yet another change.
Whether you, I or anyone else like it mate...THOSE HARD YARDS HAVE TO BE COVERED. It is a process of us evolving from the midtable to the very top and as each year becomes wasting because of impatience...the pressure will increase.

Bbeyond that, I have now got past caring what happens. I accept that times have moved on and the little lambs, their boxes of tissues and their valium will have their way...and will probably never, ever learn. As ever, they will simply blame the next manager and want him sacked...and sacked ....and sacked.

God Bless City...and all who wander around in the wilderness with her...Amen.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Oh John, don't lose patience with me. I'm normally with you, and I really do understand the validity of your stance. I've always been a "give them time" merchant. A Hughes/Pearce/Keegan/ Royle/Not Ball licker. (You'd never have wanted to be a Ball licker would you?)
But for me this guy is showing what I've had the gut feeling about to be true.
But it is a forum and so we go round in circles discussing he pros and cons no matter how small. It's quite therapeutic really. I don't think any of us really expect to change anything much.

[Ted Hughes]

I agree that sacking Bob could set us back 12 months. The problem is, I'm no longer sure that keeping him won't set us back 24. The answer to that should be obvious in the remaining games. We will surely be able to see if things are going the right way, wherever we finish? If the feeling is positive, it would be daft to sack him.

[john68]

Oh John, don't lose patience with me. I'm normally with you, and I really do understand the validity of your stance. I've always been a "give them time" merchant. A Hughes/Pearce/Keegan/ Royle/Not Ball licker. (You'd never have wanted to be a Ball licker would you?)
But for me this guy is showing what I've had the gut feeling about to be true.
But it is a forum and so we go round in circles discussing he pros and cons no matter how small. It's quite therapeutic really. I don't think any of us really expect to change anything much.

Piccs mate...It is certainly not you I have lost patience with mate. I have far to much personal respect to do that Pal.

It just seems to be the whole atmosphere around City at the moment. I think I have just got to the stage of understanding that no matter what happens at Eastlands...The lesson will never ever be learned. In truth, even with all our wealth, all our star player, sitting 4th in the league and about to embark on our 1st trip to Wembley for many years. Even with an FA Cup Final still within our sights...all I hear is a constant whinge, moan and bleat. Complaint after complaint.
This year it is about mancini and how negative he is...yet we have still scored more than the massively attractive (?) Spurs.
Last year it was about Hughes being too positive...and his inability to be negative.

We constantly read on here that we have a great squad...yet in the same threads, each player, one by one is taken apart and crucified for his weaknessses and vulnerabilities. Are there actually any City players that are popular?

City fans want perfection...they want the perfect players, all perfectly playing perfectly together in a perfect formation. So the perfect little lambs can perfectly enjoy sitting in their perfect seats, with their perfect views, eating their perfect pies in their perfect little worlds.
Hardly an ounce of credit is given to anything City...no celebration of much about city, hardly a positive or a smile...just a continuing conveyor belt of whining, whingeing, moaning and complaining.

Sorry Piccs, I have spent a lifetime defending an indefensible City against all comers and particularly the rags. I am sick to the back teeth of now having to defend City against fucking City fans.

[Alioune DVToure]

Oh John, don't lose patience with me. I'm normally with you, and I really do understand the validity of your stance. I've always been a "give them time" merchant. A Hughes/Pearce/Keegan/ Royle/Not Ball licker. (You'd never have wanted to be a Ball licker would you?)
But for me this guy is showing what I've had the gut feeling about to be true.
But it is a forum and so we go round in circles discussing he pros and cons no matter how small. It's quite therapeutic really. I don't think any of us really expect to change anything much.

Piccs mate...It is certainly not you I have lost patience with mate. I have far to much personal respect to do that Pal.

It just seems to be the whole atmosphere around City at the moment. I think I have just got to the stage of understanding that no matter what happens at Eastlands...The lesson will never ever be learned. In truth, even with all our wealth, all our star player, sitting 4th in the league and about to embark on our 1st trip to Wembley for many years. Even with an FA Cup Final still within our sights...all I hear is a constant whinge, moan and bleat. Complaint after complaint.
This year it is about mancini and how negative he is...yet we have still scored more than the massively attractive (?) Spurs.
Last year it was about Hughes being too positive...and his inability to be negative.

We constantly read on here that we have a great squad...yet in the same threads, each player, one by one is taken apart and crucified for his weaknessses and vulnerabilities. Are there actually any City players that are popular?

City fans want perfection...they want the perfect players, all perfectly playing perfectly together in a perfect formation. [highlight]So the perfect little lambs can perfectly enjoy sitting in their perfect seats, with their perfect views, eating their perfect pies in their perfect little worlds.[/highlight]
Hardly an ounce of credit is given to anything City...no celebration of much about city, hardly a positive or a smile...just a continuing conveyor belt of whining, whingeing, moaning and complaining.

Sorry Piccs, I have spent a lifetime defending an indefensible City against all comers and particularly the rags. I am sick to the back teeth of now having to defend City against fucking City fans.

I agree with all of this, bar the one little highlighted bit.

Whilst the atmosphere has dipped in recent years and impatience/expectation has supeseded enjoyment, I'm still convinced that the stadium is a more positive/realistic place than the internet forums.

I've said this before and I'm sorry if it gets a few backs up, but it seems to me that the majority of people who are constantly kicking up a stink about every successive manager and the "direction" of the club varely rarely attend matches (for whatever reason).

I bet if you did a three stage poll on the site that went something like this....

1) Do you attend more than 25% of matches? Yes or No.
2) Do you want Mancini out? Yes or no.
3) Did you want Hughes out? Yes or no.

.... then a majority of those answering question one with a 'yes' would follow with two 'no's, and a majority of those answering question one with a 'no' would answer questions two and three with a 'yes'.

I might be wrong BUT I honestly don't meet a lot of people at Eastlands (and Maine Road before that) who bitch and moan beyond all reason like some members of this and other sites do (and I've had a season ticket since 1993, which obviously covers the club's gloomiest period).

I find it sad but predictable that a lot of those who led the charge against "Hughes lickers" like myself are now the ones most vociferously calling for Mancini's head (whilst the likes of you and I, John68, are not).

I invite people to prove that my theory is wrong and make me look a cunt.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

>>>can perfectly enjoy sitting in their perfect seats, with their perfect view

I'm not even happy with that. I want to stand!

[CityFanFromRome]

Well, DVTourè, I'd answer no at question 1, no at question 2 and yes at question 3, in which category do I fall? ;)

[Alioune DVToure]

Well, I'd answer no at question 1, no at question 2 and yes at question 3, in which category do I fall? ;)

At least you've not wanted EVERY manager out. Some have.

In my lifetime the only period of relative stability was 1998-2007, during which time we only had Royle, Keegan and Pearce as manager. Look what happened to us over that period. We went from being in seemingly terminal decline to being an established (albeit poor) Premier League side again.

Reservations about Pearce, Keegan and Royle aside, that period of managers getting their feet under the table did lead to a sharp upturn (and then a levelling-out) of our fortunes and laid the foundations for what we are (or should be) enjoying now.

[Ted Hughes]

Well, I'd answer no at question 1, no at question 2 and yes at question 3, in which category do I fall? ;)

At least you've not wanted EVERY manager out. Some have.

In my lifetime the only period of relative stability was 1998-2007, during which time we only had Royle, Keegan and Pearce as manager. Look what happened to us over that period. We went from being in seemingly terminal decline to being an established (albeit poor) Premier League side again.

Reservations about Pearce, Keegan and Royle aside, that period of managers getting their feet under the table did lead to a sharp upturn (and then a levelling-out) of our fortunes and laid the foundations for what we are (or should be) enjoying now.

I think you're right about people being more patient in the ground but that's surely why we come on here; to air our doubts without it harming the team? I sing Bob's name at the ground because I hope he succeeds & I try to support him but I discuss my doubts about him here because I don't know if he will; I still don't know what to make of him, even after all this time.

However, I don't know about the rest of the ground but there is quiet discussion going on in the area I'm sat & nobody is convinced by Bob. It's not knee jerk, it's analysis by people who, just like me, have been going years & don't like sacking managers. None of these were 'Hughes outers' apart from the odd phantom loudmouth (& they've been on Bob's case for months) There's a lot of deliberation & fence sitting going on & whether people jump off it on Bob's side or not, will depend on what happens next.

[Alioune DVToure]

Well, I'd answer no at question 1, no at question 2 and yes at question 3, in which category do I fall? ;)

At least you've not wanted EVERY manager out. Some have.

In my lifetime the only period of relative stability was 1998-2007, during which time we only had Royle, Keegan and Pearce as manager. Look what happened to us over that period. We went from being in seemingly terminal decline to being an established (albeit poor) Premier League side again.

Reservations about Pearce, Keegan and Royle aside, that period of managers getting their feet under the table did lead to a sharp upturn (and then a levelling-out) of our fortunes and laid the foundations for what we are (or should be) enjoying now.

I think you're right about people being more patient in the ground but that's surely why we come on here; to air our doubts without it harming the team? I sing Bob's name at the ground because I hope he succeeds & I try to support him but I discuss my doubts about him here because I don't know if he will; I still don't know what to make of him, even after all this time.

However, I don't know about the rest of the ground but there is quiet discussion going on in the area I'm sat & nobody is convinced by Bob. It's not knee jerk, it's analysis by people who, just like me, have been going years & don't like sacking managers. None of these were 'Hughes outers' apart from the odd phantom loudmouth (& they've been on Bob's case for months) There's a lot of deliberation & fence sitting going on & whether people jump off it on Bob's side or not, will depend on what happens next.

I can't argue with a word of that.

I don't rate Mancini as one of the top managers in the world, nor am I shy of criticising some of the stupid decisions he makes on here. But I do think that he's good enough to start bringing in the pots if he's given the chance to assert himself properly.

I think some people see success as being as simple as throwing together a dream-team of 'name' players and the world's best manager. This definitely isn't the case, especially in the Premier League.

Some of the stuff you read on here is unbelievable, especially if you think what the worst case scenario is for this season. We've been much worse off and we'll continue to get better. Let's just settle with a manager and a core group of players.

We're not far off now, and even if we don't make any signings at all in the summer we'll have improved as a unit by the start of next season.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I might be wrong BUT I honestly don't meet a lot of people at Eastlands (and Maine Road before that) who bitch and moan beyond all reason like some members of this and other sites do (and I've had a season ticket since 1993, which obviously covers the club's gloomiest period).

I find it sad but predictable that a lot of those who led the charge against "Hughes lickers" like myself are now the ones most vociferously calling for Mancini's head (whilst the likes of you and I, John68, are not).

I invite people to prove that my theory is wrong and make me look a cunt.

It's Internet though, right? People feel free to say what they REALLY think. I often just nod in a casual real life conversation over various of subjects just to be polite even if deep down I'd completely disagree.

I disagree with your theory regarding Hughes-Mancini-attending games as well. Look at the starter of this topic. When Hughes was in charge he would've eaten his shit with rusty spoon. Now he is calling for Mancini's head. I don't attend 25% of games, I was dead against Hughes and willing to give Mancini time. King Kev attends most of the games and was against Hughes but still seems to be for Mancini. LAHAD and Wonderwall attend majority of games and were against Hughes sacking and both seem to want Mancini out. John68 attends most of the games and was pro-Hughes AND Pro-Mancini. (those were from the top of my head and certainly not having a go at anyone).

People always want to find some patterns on these things but I rarely see anything like that over long term. And I've been following opinions of people here since Royle sacking. I think there are three sorts of people A) people who just say what they feel is the best for the club in any given time (This would be vast majority) B) Eternally positive people who are generally happy no matter what is going on C) People who just want to be entertained and are willing to overlook poor results as long as the match going experience is entertaining(loads of those people in Mancini out crew now and majority of them are regulars).

Edit. Also, I would never call anyone cunt in real life. Kind of proves my point!

[Alioune DVToure]

I might be wrong BUT I honestly don't meet a lot of people at Eastlands (and Maine Road before that) who bitch and moan beyond all reason like some members of this and other sites do (and I've had a season ticket since 1993, which obviously covers the club's gloomiest period).

I find it sad but predictable that a lot of those who led the charge against "Hughes lickers" like myself are now the ones most vociferously calling for Mancini's head (whilst the likes of you and I, John68, are not).

I invite people to prove that my theory is wrong and make me look a cunt.

It's Internet though, right? People feel free to say what they REALLY think. I often just nod in a casual real life conversation over various of subjects just to be polite even if deep down I'd completely disagree.

I disagree with your theory regarding Hughes-Mancini-attending games as well. Look at the starter of this topic. When Hughes was in charge he would've eaten his shit with rusty spoon. Now he is calling for Mancini's head. [highlight]I don't attend 25% of games, I was dead against Hughes and willing to give Mancini time. King Kev attends most of the games and was against Hughes but still seems to be for Mancini. LAHAD and Wonderwall attend majority of games and were against Hughes sacking and both seem to want Mancini out. John68 attends most of the games and was pro-Hughes AND Pro-Mancini. (those were from the top of my head and certainly not having a go at anyone).[/highlight]

People always want to find some patterns on these things but I rarely see anything like that over long term. And I've been following opinions of people here since Royle sacking. I think there are three sorts of people A) people who just say what they feel is the best for the club in any given time (This would be vast majority) B) Eternally positive people who are generally happy no matter what is going on C) People who just want to be entertained and are willing to overlook poor results as long as the match going experience is entertaining(loads of those people in Mancini out crew now and majority of them are regulars).

Edit. Also, I would never call anyone cunt in real life. Kind of proves my point!

I accept that this does seem to debunk my theory so fair enough on that level. But the pattern is repeated among my friends. I've got a lot of friends who are City-supporting, could go every week, and very rarely do.

On the whole they're much bigger drama queens than those of us who do go. They're always "I'm sick of this .... fucking shit that .... suchabody out." On the other hand, I think those of us who've been to some grim places watching City lose away in (then) Division Two aren't so ready to label Yaya Toure "fucking shite" or suggest that it would be a "total disaster" if we didn't get top 4.

I haven't got a RealMancsAreBlue-esque prejudice against foreign or faraway fans. I think I've said before that my missus is an American blue and I've converted loads of other foreign football fans to the cause. I also like this site because I think a lot of the stuff said by the likes of Nooly, yourself, CityFanFromRome etc. is actually a higher level of football debate than I get with most of my real-life mates. I'd also suggest that your active interest in all things City makes you bigger fans than they claim to be just by virtue of being 'locals'.

I just tend to think that if you were a City season ticket holder 12/13 years ago and you still are now, and you go to Eastlands and look at the magnificent stadium and the players we have on show, and then think back to how things were, I imagine that by and large you'll be more inclined to be happy, patient, craving stability, and more willing to sit tight.

That fair?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I might be wrong BUT I honestly don't meet a lot of people at Eastlands (and Maine Road before that) who bitch and moan beyond all reason like some members of this and other sites do (and I've had a season ticket since 1993, which obviously covers the club's gloomiest period).

I find it sad but predictable that a lot of those who led the charge against "Hughes lickers" like myself are now the ones most vociferously calling for Mancini's head (whilst the likes of you and I, John68, are not).

I invite people to prove that my theory is wrong and make me look a cunt.

It's Internet though, right? People feel free to say what they REALLY think. I often just nod in a casual real life conversation over various of subjects just to be polite even if deep down I'd completely disagree.

I disagree with your theory regarding Hughes-Mancini-attending games as well. Look at the starter of this topic. When Hughes was in charge he would've eaten his shit with rusty spoon. Now he is calling for Mancini's head. [highlight]I don't attend 25% of games, I was dead against Hughes and willing to give Mancini time. King Kev attends most of the games and was against Hughes but still seems to be for Mancini. LAHAD and Wonderwall attend majority of games and were against Hughes sacking and both seem to want Mancini out. John68 attends most of the games and was pro-Hughes AND Pro-Mancini. (those were from the top of my head and certainly not having a go at anyone).[/highlight]

People always want to find some patterns on these things but I rarely see anything like that over long term. And I've been following opinions of people here since Royle sacking. I think there are three sorts of people A) people who just say what they feel is the best for the club in any given time (This would be vast majority) B) Eternally positive people who are generally happy no matter what is going on C) People who just want to be entertained and are willing to overlook poor results as long as the match going experience is entertaining(loads of those people in Mancini out crew now and majority of them are regulars).

Edit. Also, I would never call anyone cunt in real life. Kind of proves my point!

I accept that this does seem to debunk my theory so fair enough on that level. But the pattern is repeated among my friends. I've got a lot of friends who are City-supporting, could go every week, and very rarely do.

On the whole they're much bigger drama queens than those of us who do go. They're always "I'm sick of this .... fucking shit that .... suchabody out." On the other hand, I think those of us who've been to some grim places watching City lose away in (then) Division Two aren't so ready to label Yaya Toure "fucking shite" or suggest that it would be a "total disaster" if we didn't get top 4.

I haven't got a RealMancsAreBlue-esque prejudice against foreign or faraway fans. I think I've said before that my missus is an American blue and I've converted loads of other foreign football fans to the cause. I also like this site because I think a lot of the stuff said by the likes of Nooly, yourself, CityFanFromRome etc. is actually a higher level of football debate than I get with most of my real-life mates. I'd also suggest that your active interest in all things City makes you bigger fans than they claim to be just by virtue of being 'locals'.

I just tend to think that if you were a City season ticket holder 12/13 years ago and you still are now, and you go to Eastlands and look at the magnificent stadium and the players we have on show, and then think back to how things were, I imagine that by and large you'll be more inclined to be happy, patient, craving stability, and more willing to sit tight.

That fair?

Very fair. I never meant to discredit you or anything. I've just seen people here (both match going and those who can't go to matches) go from one extreme to another numerous times over different managers.

My basic point was that if I'd have the priviledge to be season ticket holder and you'd talk with me outside the ground about Hughes (let's pretend this is Hughes era) it could go something like this:

You: I quite like where we are heading under Hughes
Me: Yeah, we've made some nice signings and all but it's Mark Hughes though. I don't know what to think about him managing our club.
You: But I'm really enjoying the quality of football right now
Me: Yeah, I suppose it's alright

Two hours later on Internet we meet without knowing

You: I quite like where we are heading under Hughes
Me: The sorry excuse of a man is fucking rag cunt. Get this wank stain out of the Club ASAP.
You: I've talked to loads of people in the ground and they all seem to be enjoying the football
Me: He bought fucking Roque Santa Cuntz. We are going to be booting it long from now on. Hughes can go and take his bum chum with him

Internet tends to polarize opinions of people (me included) as you enjoy the real freedom of speech and you are not restricted by ordinary behavioural norms.

[lets all have a disco]

All i ever wanted with Hughes a status quo.

Mancini has had 18 months and WE ARENT BETTER.By this time Hughed haters wanted him burning on a stake.


Im willing to give Mancini till the end of the season to see if he cuts it if he doesnt he can fuck off,exactly the way people fucked Hughes off.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

All i ever wanted with Hughes a status quo.

Mancini has had 18 months and WE ARENT BETTER.By this time Hughed haters wanted him burning on a stake.


Im willing to give Mancini till the end of the season to see if he cuts it if he doesnt he can fuck off,exactly the way people fucked Hughes off.

Like I said mate, I wasn't having a go at you or anyone else. Just used you as an example.

[mcfc1632]

I really really want some stability and long term planning and management -I think that Mancini is capable of that.

Perhaps Hughes was before him and all I wanted was some stability then as well

Given the 2 I would rather have Mancini - despite Hughes's style of football being better on the eye - I just think that Mancini has more long term to offer

I really really do not want change - and frankly if there is to be change I really really do not want Jose. No matter what bit of short term success there might be, that is not guaranteed - whereas more change and another new start needed in a couple of years is

[avoidconfusion]

I would like some signal from Mancini that would at least give us some hope that he is willing to change the way he has us play football at the moment.

[Kladze]

I just tend to think that if you were a City season ticket holder 12/13 years ago and you still are now, and you go to Eastlands and look at the magnificent stadium and the players we have on show, and then think back to how things were, I imagine that by and large you'll be more inclined to be happy, patient, craving stability, and more willing to sit tight.

That fair?

Excuse me butting into your conversation with NQDP but .......... is that fair ?

Hmmm, yes I suppose it is 'fair' but it isn't necessarily correct.
I believe that, given the money spent and the time used up, we should be more than capable - by now - of playing mind blowingly good football AND winning (the two things are NOT mutually exclusive, ask Pep Guardiola).

There is absolutely no compulsion to look back into our recent past, thank God it's over with, and then settle for much less than is possible.

As for giving Mancini until the end of the season? I'll go along with that ..... I actually like him as a man, I like the way he seems to have taken City to his heart, and it makes me feel like some sort of Judas Iscariot pointing toward the gardens of Gethsemane when I call for his head - and that lot is a good indicator of how sickeningly tedious City's brand of football has become.

[DoomMerchant]

is what we're seeing with Mancini why no big club was in for him after his Inter sacking?

cheers

[Craig B]

is what we're seeing with Mancini why no big club was in for him after his Inter sacking?

cheers

His compensation package with Inter apparently stipulated that he was unemployable by any club from May 2008 to October 2009.