Human rights

[Tokyo Blue]

If one has issues with the owners of a certain football club, what can one do about it?

[mr_nool]

If one has issues with the owners of a certain football club, what can one do about it?

Start supporting Norwich?

[Clowncrete]

I like how people think that having a democracy means having a better nation. I live in India, a democracy and I would rather have a government like the Chinese or UAE government if it means better law and order and more development.

Democracy is definitely not the solution to all problems most eastern countries face as some fools in the west think. Most people have poor education and are unable to judge the candidates properly and regularly vote the corrupt candidate, if he offers them money or is a member of the same community or religion.

[john@staustell]

I like how people think that having a democracy means having a better nation. I live in India, a democracy and I would rather have a government like the Chinese or UAE government if it means better law and order and more development.

Good answer. Amazing how many pompous folk think 'democracy' is the only way to go. And worse still, trying to impose it on every bugger else.

[Clowncrete]

A huge number of people from South Asia move to the UAE. It is the jewel in the crown in the entire region, far better than any other neighboring country. My uncle lives in Oman and travels a lot to the UAE. Why is it that he chose to live a better life in a non-secular "dictatorship" than living in a "secular" democracy?

[Arjan Van Schotte]

I like how people think that having a democracy means having a better nation. I live in India, a democracy and I would rather have a government like the Chinese or UAE government if it means better law and order and more development.

Good answer. Amazing how many pompous folk think 'democracy' is the only way to go. And worse still, trying to impose it on every bugger else.

Just for the record, I haven't called for "democracy", whatever that actually is (that's a whole new debate, and not for here...!).

Oh, and I'm not pompous :) see - smiley face.

[Rag_hater]

Amnesty,HRW, and all the people who think that the abuses in that part of the world are bad,can make as much noise as they like.The fact is they are not gonna change anything.Human rights abuses have been going on there and lots of other places for hundreds probably thousands of years.Its nothing new and the people in power are just doing what they have always done.Looking after themselves.

[brite blu sky]

I think it's pretty clear that AvS is not wailing in any way here. He has some pretty principled views on a number of life's issues which, some I share some I don't and some I probably disagree with but...he has integrity in what he thinks and how he lives in line with or expresses those views.

In that light I think he would think that, in the context of city and those beliefs, he would be a bit of a hypocrite if he didnt voice his (and the inherent potential) issues re these events and the underlying issues in the UAE....either/and he thinks that the debate is worth putting on the table.

That doesn't make him a moaner or a bleater or a wailer

Maybe most on here really don't care about what happens in the UAE (or other countries) full stop. Others may care in principle but would never agitate protest or behave in any kind of militant manner. Some might not believe the reports. Others may care about the issues but their feelings for City (and the underlying fear that criticising the UAE regime "within" City might lead the owners to one day pull the plug and walk away) enable or compel them to not "agree" with others who have issues with this.

Whatever your position is, doesn't mean that those who do want to talk about it shouldn't be able to. These are issues worthy of discussion.

The thing is ant that most of the responses on here have taken a sanguine point of view, not out of lack of interest but on the grounds of the fact that such problems are both complex and require a lot of time to resolve. Arjen seems to want to 'do something' and has mostly ducked those responses outlining the complexity or the obvious propaganda. That to me suggests he hasn't really thought about what exactly he could do as an individual and more than that seems to believe that protesting is some kind of way forward.

As far as I am concerned whatever the merits of any issue protesting is simply a focussed way of moaning. Don't get me wrong it doesn't mean I think we should accept stuff, far far from it. Sometimes protest is the only way forward I know but it requires that it is appropriate to the end goal being demanded.

My prodding of Arjen over these two threads on the issue is to try and get him to offer something pro-active.

Many have pointed out the hypocrisy of pointing the finger.
Mass protest by City fans is not going to be supported is it, as it would be both counter productive and in this case inappropriate. - ie.
What exactly are we protesting about?
What is the aim of protesting - what is it that the protest is trying to get done?

In this case most importantly, Is the body that the protest is aimed at in a position to do what the protest is demanding?


It just seems to me that Arjen is in some way enamoured with the idea of creating a protest as opposed to really looking at what City fans as a body could do to both understand the situation ( including that of our owners ) and then to look at ways to lever a shift of some nature.

45,000+ fans pulling together could operate some mighty big lever.

Many in this thread have called for a basic respect to be shown of the situation in UAE and quite rightly. City fans would come across as a great bunch of embarrassing ignorant tossers if we piled into a situation that we did not understand, it could backfire incredibly for both fans, club and owners.

No, there are far better ways. Not holier than thou, respectful, collaborative, creative and true to City fans with some decent self effacing humour thrown in.

Just to sum it up, I never said don't be bothered or don't do anything, I have simply said think of something more interesting and pro-active than just having a protest.

If Arjen is at a loss of how to go about something, then can I suggest for starters to write in a formal capacity to our owner asking what his plans are for the future implementation of reforms in UAE, particularly the law relating to human rights and the rights of foreign workers.

Believe me if that was written in the right way it would get a response. After all City fans and our owners share more common interests than meets the eye, (hint: the wellbeing and image of the club is important to all of us). Those interests can be explored and for want of a better word exploited, for the benefit of all.


In the modern connected west seeing your aim as protesting is for wailers, bleaters and moaners. The new way is doing and building together. Get on it.

[Cocacolajojo1]

I think it's pretty clear that AvS is not wailing in any way here. He has some pretty principled views on a number of life's issues which, some I share some I don't and some I probably disagree with but...he has integrity in what he thinks and how he lives in line with or expresses those views.

In that light I think he would think that, in the context of city and those beliefs, he would be a bit of a hypocrite if he didnt voice his (and the inherent potential) issues re these events and the underlying issues in the UAE....either/and he thinks that the debate is worth putting on the table.

That doesn't make him a moaner or a bleater or a wailer

Maybe most on here really don't care about what happens in the UAE (or other countries) full stop. Others may care in principle but would never agitate protest or behave in any kind of militant manner. Some might not believe the reports. Others may care about the issues but their feelings for City (and the underlying fear that criticising the UAE regime "within" City might lead the owners to one day pull the plug and walk away) enable or compel them to not "agree" with others who have issues with this.

Whatever your position is, doesn't mean that those who do want to talk about it shouldn't be able to. These are issues worthy of discussion.

Great post again.

[Cocacolajojo1]

I like how people think that having a democracy means having a better nation. I live in India, a democracy and I would rather have a government like the Chinese or UAE government if it means better law and order and more development.

Democracy is definitely not the solution to all problems most eastern countries face as some fools in the west think. Most people have poor education and are unable to judge the candidates properly and regularly vote the corrupt candidate, if he offers them money or is a member of the same community or religion.

Now I'm leaving the discussion about our football club but I'd just like to point out that this was exactly the argument (people are stupid, people are corrupt) put forward a gazillion million times before universal suffrage was introduced in the west. I'm not saying that democracy works (like works perfectly) but universal suffrage did not mean glaring corruption or a wave of uneducated votes.

Not that your post or my reply has anything to do with this discussion, which is about the connection between civil rights (NOT democracy), our owners and football.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

In the modern connected west seeing your aim as protesting is for wailers, bleaters and moaners. The new way is doing and building together. Get on it.

i disagree, as would millions of others around the world who've taken part in human rights protests over the years, and seen real change happen. I think it's a bit of an insult to them actually.

And your suggestions so far have been a form of protest, otherwise why do anything?

as I've also told you, this issue isn't top of my list, by any means, but you're also making a lot of assumptions again. Who says I haven't "done anything"? That I just sit at a laptop "moaning"? You don't know me mate, you just know my opinion on one subject.

As we seem to be getting off the topic now, I'll leave it there, but IMHO it's been a good debate generally.

[Clowncrete]

I like how people think that having a democracy means having a better nation. I live in India, a democracy and I would rather have a government like the Chinese or UAE government if it means better law and order and more development.

Democracy is definitely not the solution to all problems most eastern countries face as some fools in the west think. Most people have poor education and are unable to judge the candidates properly and regularly vote the corrupt candidate, if he offers them money or is a member of the same community or religion.

Now I'm leaving the discussion about our football club but I'd just like to point out that this was exactly the argument (people are stupid, people are corrupt) put forward a gazillion million times before universal suffrage was introduced in the west. I'm not saying that democracy works (like works perfectly) but universal suffrage did not mean glaring corruption or a wave of uneducated votes.

Not that your post or my reply has anything to do with this discussion, which is about the connection between civil rights (NOT democracy), our owners and football.

I just stated my perspective, that UAE and Abu Dhabi are not some dark-holes of human right abuse and is in-fact better than what is described in Conn's article. Singling out Abu-Dhabi is a tad unfair when the entire area suffers from a lot worse. Just because Abu Dhabi doesn't look ideal from a western prism doesn't turn it into a bad place at all.

My democracy point emerged from my experiences from the internet, where I have met many people(generally from the west) who simply believe that democracy is the most beneficial form of government and the solution to every problem. I don't agree to that, but I agree that it doesn't have much to do with the topic.

[Deyna]

Bumping this tread with a (in my point of view) a very interresting article from the same researcher (Nicholas McGeehan). As a Cityfan it's not the most favourable read, but it brings up some quite well-documented details about our owners and their surroundings. From a Sport- and result point of view we are obviously on the right path, but what about the "Disneyification of football" they are claiming, is that what we want as fans?

https://medium.com/@NcGeehan/the-men-behind-man-city-a-documentary-not-coming-soon-to-a-cinema-near-you-14bc8e393e06

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Bumping this tread with a (in my point of view) a very interresting article from the same researcher (Nicholas McGeehan). As a Cityfan it's not the most favourable read, but it brings up some quite well-documented details about our owners and their surroundings. From a Sport- and result point of view we are obviously on the right path, but what about the "Disneyification of football" they are claiming, is that what we want as fans?

https://medium.com/@NcGeehan/the-men-behind-man-city-a-documentary-not-coming-soon-to-a-cinema-near-you-14bc8e393e06

Does the writer actually provide any real evidence that Mansour is not the club's owner? Genuinely curious, this is my second attempt and failure to get through the piece because I got bored,twice.

[Dameerto]

Bumping this tread with a (in my point of view) a very interresting article from the same researcher (Nicholas McGeehan). As a Cityfan it's not the most favourable read, but it brings up some quite well-documented details about our owners and their surroundings. From a Sport- and result point of view we are obviously on the right path, but what about the "Disneyification of football" they are claiming, is that what we want as fans?

https://medium.com/@NcGeehan/the-men-behind-man-city-a-documentary-not-coming-soon-to-a-cinema-near-you-14bc8e393e06

Does the writer actually provide any real evidence that Mansour is not the club's owner? Genuinely curious, this is my second attempt and failure to get through the piece because I got bored,twice.

We're meant to take his word for it, as he jumps to conclusions and assumptions.

[City64]

If one has issues with the owners of a certain football club, what can one do about it?

To be fair Blackpool have had some right shit with their owner for a good while .........

[dazby]

I think just about every football fan who buys their team shirt is guilty of supporting sweat shops.

We are all guilty.

[Tokyo Blue]

If one has issues with the owners of a certain football club, what can one do about it?

To be fair Blackpool have had some right shit with their owner for a good while .........

And have not been able to change a thing. Hence my question, mate.

[zuricity]

I‘m not one to mix politics with football, human rights is a dangerous area to go into.

I mean , at Christmas time anyhow, is is all to easy to add another lost soul to the pile of pity.

But then again, let us take pity at this time on our Rag opposites and the parlous and watered down entrails of footy they have to scavenge at the swamp under Maureen’s guidence.

As Reg says „it is the inalienable right of every man ( or woman ) „ - to watch footy.


Nah ! forget that , i prefer the Scrooge approach, „Bah Humbug!“

Let them eat more of Maureen‘s recipes for disaster.... long may it continue.

[Mase]

If one has issues with the owners of a certain football club, what can one do about it?

To be fair Blackpool have had some right shit with their owner for a good while .........

And have not been able to change a thing. Hence my question, mate.

It hasn’t done Blackburn fans any favours either.