Drop Hart? (NEW POLL AFTER CHELSEA FARCE))

[Ted Hughes]

I am crirical of Joe Hart, he has to sort it or he is heading for a Ben Foster type of career, Decent keeper not top class. Cassilas rumour or the Malaga Keeper will see the Back 4 more in tune with how the Count wants to Play.
Hart has stopped improving and like all players when you get sussed you need to adjust. Over to him only he can sort it.

Spot on.

He can get his head down & sort it, or become Nicky Weaver.

[Hazy2]

apart from mistakes in goal his kick outs and distribution of the ball are not good.

I think your being very generous with your description of his kicking and distribution.Its so bad its almost as if hes been blindfolded.

Last night a pass to Hart from one of our players was as good as a pass to the opposition. Not solely down to Hart as they pressed us really well, but his distribution was at its worst.

And at its most brainless.

At times, Bayern hadn't actually picked up our players as they were having a breather, but he was too stupid to notice.

Nastasic, on the ball, was worse than Lescott has ever been last night when put under pressure btw. Like Gerry Taggart at times, so I get why Hart was nervous, but it's not his decision to change our style of play.

The ratting by BM was a classic example of how you breed success, no sitting on there past glory of last year, we got battered by a team without 3 or 4 players who would walk into any team in Europe. Lessons learned is we are miles off the best of the best and I have Bayern currently as good as anything I have seen better than two yrs ago. We look to open against average last night we looked scared after the 1st goal. It looked like they had 15 players at times. Lahm coverted to MF was a master-stroke, Get Pep ASAP. He killed our plans and allowed them to run rings around us, and many others I am sure before the season is done, I do Fancy a PSG with the arrogance of Zlatan plus the quality they have to maybe come up with a better plan though, we will see. Top team against a team in transition a dodgy defence/keeper.

[Ted Hughes]

apart from mistakes in goal his kick outs and distribution of the ball are not good.

I think your being very generous with your description of his kicking and distribution.Its so bad its almost as if hes been blindfolded.

Last night a pass to Hart from one of our players was as good as a pass to the opposition. Not solely down to Hart as they pressed us really well, but his distribution was at its worst.

And at its most brainless.

At times, Bayern hadn't actually picked up our players as they were having a breather, but he was too stupid to notice.

Nastasic, on the ball, was worse than Lescott has ever been last night when put under pressure btw. Like Gerry Taggart at times, so I get why Hart was nervous, but it's not his decision to change our style of play.

The ratting by BM was a classic example of how you breed success, no sitting on there past glory of last year, we got battered by a team without 3 or 4 players who would walk into any team in Europe. Lessons learned is we are miles off the best of the best and I have Bayern currently as good as anything I have seen better than two yrs ago. We look to open against average last night we looked scared after the 1st goal. It looked like they had 15 players at times. Lahm coverted to MF was a master-stroke, Get Pep ASAP. He killed our plans and allowed them to run rings around us, and many others I am sure before the season is done, I do Fancy a PSG with the arrogance of Zlatan plus the quality they have to maybe come up with a better plan though, we will see. Top team against a team in transition a dodgy defence/keeper.

A top manager, watching how Bayern play, should now set his team up to try to do something about it. Guardiola paid us the respect of starting the game without a striker. He is an attack-minded manager, but he saw that as the best way to dominate us & attack.

Pellegrini has had a look now & seen our system can be dismantled by that system, even with the quality of players we have.

If he just sets up like that again in Germany, he wants sacking there & then, before kickoff.

[sheblue]

away to bayern...
panti
zabba, komps, lescott, clichy
yaya ferdi, milner, navas, nasri, silva...

SORTED.

[Hazy2]

It must have panned out a lot easier then they would have ever expected. Almost men against boys. Englandesq against a top team.

I wonder how Berigistan and Pep spent the hour or so after the game chewing the fat. Pep your team has many problems.
Berigistan I know, now fuck off and I see you here in 3 yrs ok, seriously Ted for our resources, desire to be the best, something must have dawned of the 2 amigos last night, this is a mamouth task BM are looking to more improvement on what they have, Stripping Dortmund of RL. Nobody is unbeatable, we are just well shy of that level to be the ones.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

apart from mistakes in goal his kick outs and distribution of the ball are not good.

I think your being very generous with your description of his kicking and distribution.Its so bad its almost as if hes been blindfolded.

Last night a pass to Hart from one of our players was as good as a pass to the opposition. Not solely down to Hart as they pressed us really well, but his distribution was at its worst.

And at its most brainless.

At times, Bayern hadn't actually picked up our players as they were having a breather, but he was too stupid to notice.
er
Nastasic, on the ball, was worse than Lescott has ever been last night when put under pressure btw. Like Gerry Taggart at times, so I get why Hart was nervous, but it's not his decision to change our style of play.

Nastasic has been poor this season. And playing Richards was (albeit understandable given his pace) a mistake by the manager. Clichy didn't cover himself in glory either. We have some ongoing and worrying defensive problems this season.

[Wonderwall]

poll added

[Nigels Tackle]

panti is not a top 4 /champs league quality 'keeper
joe has no proper competition and is suffering because of that
should have signed as schwarzer as a stop gap in the summer

joe hart = paul robinson

[Green & Blue]

poll added

Good stuff.

[Beefymcfc]

I'm not sure if he should be dropped as I think he's suffering from nerves due to the change in tactics. He's not got that once reliable defensive system in front of him and even a milli-second of doubt could lead to a goal.

He needs to accept that things have changed and roll with the new system. If he fails to save one because we are open or he misses one because it's a goos shot then just forget about it but letting one in just because he is a little nervous should not be happening.

Give him until Xmas to adopt with the tactics and team mates then give it a call.

[sheblue]

of course dropping a keeper is not good for confidence, but needs must. give panti a run in the side, cant do much worse.

[Big H]

Give him until Xmas to adopt with the tactics and team mates then give it a call.

We may only have the FA Cup to play for by then!

[Colin the King]

As bad as the goals he conceded were, what annoyed me the most was constantly hoofing the ball 70 yards up the field when there were often shorter, better options. Bayern swallowed it up all night. He needs to sit it out on Saturday and refocus. After years of knowing he's #1, we need to make him hungry again and less complacent.

[MilnersJaw]

As much of a clown mourinho is he would have dropped hart by now. Maybe there is someone behind the scenes telling the count to play joe?

I'm not going to defend the indefensible, those goals from Ribery and Robben were poor on Joe's part and his kicking was woeful ( although not helped by a lack of movement from the team ).

But why should he have been dropped before last night? For failing to claim two balls from corners against Cardiff?

because of last season? because of the villa game? every game we have lost this season he has dropped a bollock.

@beefy the whole he is not adapting to the new system and he needs to get used to it is bollocks. he was doing it under mancini and is still doing it now. Him letting in goals that could easily be saved or making stupid decisions is him alone and no one else.

[Herb]

I'm not going to defend the indefensible, those goals from Ribery and Robben were poor on Joe's part and his kicking was woeful ( although not helped by a lack of movement from the team ).

But why should he have been dropped before last night? For failing to claim two balls from corners against Cardiff?

I know you love Joe and I understand that because I thought he was a goalkeeping god myself until I had a hard look at his mistakes last season. I still think he's a great guy but I'd rather he was sat in the stands chewing on a jamie oliver pie (him being one of the few who can afford them) than throwing wins away like he so regularly does.

In answer to your question; because he cost us at least 10 points due to his arm flapping failures last season and because his profound lack of ability has already cost us 6 points by my count this season.
Like I said, I like Joe and can't help but look at him through blue tints - other people have the numbers much higher!
Fact is that he was a very good stopper with a couple of glaring weakness 2 seasons ago. He looked like he could build on his talents and go on to be the world beater that we all hoped for but he's gone backwards and just deteriorated into a regular disaster since then and he's just getting worse I'm afraid.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Herb and MJ, you're both deluded if you think Joe cost us that Villa game.

[Sideshow Bob]

i am at a fucking loss to explain how any of you can even attempt to defend him at this point. it's more absurd than paulus (or his new alias, which escapes me) defending dzonkey's ineptitude!! at least dzonkey scores goals on occasion...what the fuck does hart bring to the table???

[Foreverinbluedreams]

i am at a fucking loss to explain how any of you can even attempt to defend him at this point. it's more absurd than paulus (or his new alias, which escapes me) defending dzonkey's ineptitude!! at least dzonkey scores goals on occasion...what the fuck does hart bring to the table???

It would help if you actually read the fucking thread. I already said I'm not going to defend him on last night's performance.

What does he bring to the table? He had the fourth highest saves to shot ratio in the PL last season, admittedly that is a dip from being top in that particular stat the season before. Perhaps he would benefit from a spell on the sidelines but to ask what does he bring to the table is just fucking nonsense.

[Slim]

i am at a fucking loss to explain how any of you can even attempt to defend him at this point. it's more absurd than paulus (or his new alias, which escapes me) defending dzonkey's ineptitude!! at least dzonkey scores goals on occasion...what the fuck does hart bring to the table???

It's cit.revenge although it looks as though BiB has told him to pull his head in because he's nowhere near as annoying now.

[Herb]

Herb and MJ, you're both deluded if you think Joe cost us that Villa game.

FiBJ,

Well I didn't think I'd mentioned the villa game in this thread but now that you bring it up I can say without fear of logical contradiction that he was shite in the villa game from my perspective.
What I saw was that we had lots of action in the villa area and several shots on their goal but their keeper commanded his box, controlled his defence and kept us at bay in the main . . . they had 3 shots on target and Joe (or 'doh!' as we call him) let 3 in . . yeah, we're deluded and he didn't do that and we took the 3 points . . hurrah for doh! Hart.

PS. Still like the way you stick up for him in the face of all reason . . very British - a bit like extolling the charge of the light brigade as a great moment in our history (when it was an unmitigated disaster - though you may see it as a great victory).