Mancini (The Ted Hughes and BBS thread)

[Douglas Higginbottom]

"I guess is kind of what Mancini is trying to do keep everyone guessing with differing formations/tactics/personnel "

If that is really what he is trying to do I will start worrying.It sounds like what somebody would do irrespective of how it affects performances and results just to show who is boss.I don't believe that for a second.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I'm sure there was a very strong plan which Mancini was implementing pretty well. His attempts at expanding that are so far verging on incompetence though. I think he needs to take a step back & re organise, then move forward a bit more slowly. He's gone from almost total negativity & one up front, to random attacking formations with different players in different jobs. Half the team are playing one way & half the other.

You know Ted, you are one of the posters on here that I have most time for, you talk good common sense and see the game and the club in much the same way I do.
I also understand the point you are making about the change in style costing us, you did predict it before it happened so fair play to you. However two points I'd make.
We were hardly convincing in our negative set up. We didn't look like a team that was definitely going to win tricky games. We took a bit of a pasting at Spurs for half an hour, we were absolute shite at Sunderland, simply feeble, we didn't really inspire winning at Wigan and were pretty unconvincing drawing with Blackburn.
Secondly, all the money we have spent, all the top talent we've brought in and we haven't got the ability to attack, that we need to temper any hopes of playing good football we may have had. That hundreds of millions can only get us an organised defence? That simply can't be right. That can't be the extent of our ambitions at this stage surely.

[brite blu sky]

I'm sure there was a very strong plan which Mancini was implementing pretty well. His attempts at expanding that are so far verging on incompetence though. I think he needs to take a step back & re organise, then move forward a bit more slowly. He's gone from almost total negativity & one up front, to random attacking formations with different players in different jobs. Half the team are playing one way & half the other.

You know Ted, you are one of the posters on here that I have most time for, you talk good common sense and see the game and the club in much the same way I do.
I also understand the point you are making about the change in style costing us, you did predict it before it happened so fair play to you. However two points I'd make.
We were hardly convincing in our negative set up. We didn't look like a team that was definitely going to win tricky games. We took a bit of a pasting at Spurs for half an hour, we were absolute shite at Sunderland, simply feeble, we didn't really inspire winning at Wigan and were pretty unconvincing drawing with Blackburn.
Secondly, all the money we have spent, all the top talent we've brought in and we haven't got the ability to attack, that we need to temper any hopes of playing good football we may have had. That hundreds of millions can only get us an organised defence? That simply can't be right. That can't be the extent of our ambitions at this stage surely.

I know that was addressed to Ted but can i ask you Piccs, do you think that because we have spent money that everything should just go our way regardless of injuries, players bedding into the prem and learning about each other and learning about the manager ? cos it sounds like you do.
Dont get me wrong we haven't been very good as yet, but surely we have to take all things into consideration.. no?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

No I don't think we have a devine right to win. I don't expect us to slot into fantastic performances instantly. However, I do expect us to be able to marry the twin aims of the game in the same 90 minutes. i.e. attack and defend. We have bought expensive atackers , expensive defenders and expensive players to link them together, but apparently by November, we still can't manage to do both.
It's not good is it?

[brite blu sky]

No it is not good i fully agree. I do think though that over the last few weeks and particularly after Wolves that one way or another everyone is searching in their own way for answers.. reasons for the inconsistent performance levels, lack of cohesion, mistakes at the back, missed chances at the front. It is easy in all that to miss the times when the play has been either solid as fucl or inspiring or simply downright professional. Ok Wolves has sent us on a downer, quite rightly, but im not convinced by the arguments that just revert to simplistic things like the manager is crap.

In fact i would go further than that and say that it is a reflection of fans that we cant seem to cope with the struggle to emerge as a team that can tilt at the title.

Im not sure i have seen one post that out and out just shouts 'Get a grip lads, take it on the chin as the need to learn and fuck the press, fuck the naysayers, fuck the typical City mongers and be confident we will learn and we will come back stronger'

Truth is there is a lot of positive stuff that has gone on since Mancini arrived and that has just gone out of the window apparently. Im not buying it. I can understand the disappointment but i cant understand the deep negativity that Saturdays result brought out.

[BobKowalski]

"I guess is kind of what Mancini is trying to do keep everyone guessing with differing formations/tactics/personnel "

If that is really what he is trying to do I will start worrying.It sounds like what somebody would do irrespective of how it affects performances and results just to show who is boss.I don't believe that for a second.

Well thats not what I meant. My assumption is that Mancini long term wants a team/squad that can adapt to differing circumstances or a framework of formations that the players can slot in and out of hence the premium on versatility in the players we purchased in the summer. There is an advantage in having the opposition being unsure as to how City will line up tactically before the match.

Playing a one size fits all system also has merit in that players know instinctively where they should be at any phase in the game whereas against wolves and with the introduction of a new player in Balotelli we seemed anything but sure once wolves got to grips with the game. As Ted has said this uncertainty and the chopping around of the back 4 has sent us backwards.

I suspect that Mancini will push for his long term goal but it will inevitably tempered by short term considerations namely points. Its a tricky balancing act and prior to the Blackpool and wolves games I would have argued that these where the right games to try out a more attacking mode. We got away with it at Blackpool and got our arses handed to us at wolves. Mancini will continue to experiment as the season goes on and there are going to be times when it goes tits which is fine provided its in the context of a season where we get a minimum of a CL spot.

[BobKowalski]

No it is not good i fully agree. I do think though that over the last few weeks and particularly after Wolves that one way or another everyone is searching in their own way for answers.. reasons for the inconsistent performance levels, lack of cohesion, mistakes at the back, missed chances at the front. It is easy in all that to miss the times when the play has been either solid as fucl or inspiring or simply downright professional. Ok Wolves has sent us on a downer, quite rightly, but im not convinced by the arguments that just revert to simplistic things like the manager is crap.

In fact i would go further than that and say that it is a reflection of fans that we cant seem to cope with the struggle to emerge as a team that can tilt at the title.

Im not sure i have seen one post that out and out just shouts 'Get a grip lads, take it on the chin as the need to learn and fuck the press, fuck the naysayers, fuck the typical City mongers and be confident we will learn and we will come back stronger'

Truth is there is a lot of positive stuff that has gone on since Mancini arrived and that has just gone out of the window apparently. Im not buying it. I can understand the disappointment but i cant understand the deep negativity that Saturdays result brought out.

Agreed. But as they say its the hope that kills you. Failure and the expectation of failure is easier to live with. Hope though can be a bitch.

[brite blu sky]

No it is not good i fully agree. I do think though that over the last few weeks and particularly after Wolves that one way or another everyone is searching in their own way for answers.. reasons for the inconsistent performance levels, lack of cohesion, mistakes at the back, missed chances at the front. It is easy in all that to miss the times when the play has been either solid as fucl or inspiring or simply downright professional. Ok Wolves has sent us on a downer, quite rightly, but im not convinced by the arguments that just revert to simplistic things like the manager is crap.

In fact i would go further than that and say that it is a reflection of fans that we cant seem to cope with the struggle to emerge as a team that can tilt at the title.

Im not sure i have seen one post that out and out just shouts 'Get a grip lads, take it on the chin as the need to learn and fuck the press, fuck the naysayers, fuck the typical City mongers and be confident we will learn and we will come back stronger'

Truth is there is a lot of positive stuff that has gone on since Mancini arrived and that has just gone out of the window apparently. Im not buying it. I can understand the disappointment but i cant understand the deep negativity that Saturdays result brought out.

Agreed. But as they say its the hope that kills you. Failure and the expectation of failure is easier to live with. Hope though can be a bitch.

Too true, but the hope is that we get a reward from the seasons efforts.. so any one game or so is not really the issue.. if hope is destroyed by a couple of poor performances and results then questions have to be asked of those doing the hoping ;)

I suppose now we are hoping that we bounce back.. so if we dont then hope is going to look like a right old worn out fucler!

My view is that set backs make you stronger, overall we are trying to build a title winning mentality, so if the players have a week of introspection and frustration then so be it, it will make winners of them if they have ambitions to be that.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm sure there was a very strong plan which Mancini was implementing pretty well. His attempts at expanding that are so far verging on incompetence though. I think he needs to take a step back & re organise, then move forward a bit more slowly. He's gone from almost total negativity & one up front, to random attacking formations with different players in different jobs. Half the team are playing one way & half the other.

You know Ted, you are one of the posters on here that I have most time for, you talk good common sense and see the game and the club in much the same way I do.
I also understand the point you are making about the change in style costing us, you did predict it before it happened so fair play to you. However two points I'd make.
We were hardly convincing in our negative set up. We didn't look like a team that was definitely going to win tricky games. We took a bit of a pasting at Spurs for half an hour, we were absolute shite at Sunderland, simply feeble, we didn't really inspire winning at Wigan and were pretty unconvincing drawing with Blackburn.
Secondly, all the money we have spent, all the top talent we've brought in and we haven't got the ability to attack, that we need to temper any hopes of playing good football we may have had. That hundreds of millions can only get us an organised defence? That simply can't be right. That can't be the extent of our ambitions at this stage surely.

I think people are a bit deluded at times when they think that just because you spend money you automatically succeed straight away. I was gobsmacked when Hughes was sacked because I thought it was frankly ridiculous to expect a certain outcome with so many new faces, not just from last season but from the season before, to gel into a team. Sure it CAN all come together if you're lucky but usually it needs a few years of setting up. Bob is now in the next phase but once again we now have so many new players we're almost going through last season again. We have so much quality now though that I see it as only a matter of time before it all comes together. That 'time' though could be halfway through next season & that wouldn't be an unreasonable time to wait if neccessary.

Imo if Bob plays all his cards right though, he can bring that forward & we can break the top 3 this season. I don't think he's getting it right atm & has gone from being over cautious to over experimental. He's cost us a few points imo, by making experimental changes rather than game winning ones. All I was asking was for him to be a bit more positive, especially at home but he's lost his way a bit. If we just get back to basics & build from a solid base, I recon he can try all these tricks as the season moves on. Just let's do it one little bit at a time & then all the little bits may come together just in time for for the run in.

[john68]

Sadly Ted, the point that we both and others have made many times regarding money not automatically buying success and the importance of time and patience to allow a team to evolve and mistakes to be rectified, will probably go unheeded again and again.

Immediate gratification is the order of the day. Instant success is demanded and if it isn't delivered on cue, then changes have to be made. It is a tool that the tabloid press are using and have used aginst other clubs, as well as City. No such thing as blips or learning curves...a couple of defeats and the media and thus the fans are set up to bay for blood.

I note that the press have not only got the knives out for mancini, they are also gunning for Cook too.

[colonel_muck]

mancini is basically rafa benitez with a personality, but unfortunately man city don't have a steven gerrard to pull them out of the shit like benitez did.

[Ted Hughes]

Sadly Ted, the point that we both and others have made many times regarding money not automatically buying success and the importance of time and patience to allow a team to evolve and mistakes to be rectified, will probably go unheeded again and again.

Immediate gratification is the order of the day. Instant success is demanded and if it isn't delivered on cue, then changes have to be made. It is a tool that the tabloid press are using and have used aginst other clubs, as well as City. No such thing as blips or learning curves...a couple of defeats and the media and thus the fans are set up to bay for blood.

I note that the press have not only got the knives out for mancini, they are also gunning for Cook too.

Let's hope we give the rags a good shafting then it'll go very quiet.

[Wooders]

I really am struggling to see the difference between him and hughes at the moment. Apart from the fact the football was generally a lot more enjoyable in the "you score 3, we'll score 4" vain under hughes
I used to cringe at the thought of 2 defensive midfielders, now we're playing 3 and still can't nobble wolves

[The Foggy Blue]

I'm pissed off that this thread exists. Managers need to stick around before a club can progress (unless of course the core of a team/squad already exits a la Chelsea).

Mancini needs to stay or City can write this season off.

[Tokyo Blue]

I'm pissed off that this thread exists. Managers need to stick around before a club can progress (unless of course the core of a team/squad already exits a la Chelsea).

Mancini needs to stay or City can write this season off.

And probably next as well.

[Beefymcfc]

I'm pissed off that this thread exists. Managers need to stick around before a club can progress (unless of course the core of a team/squad already exits a la Chelsea).

Mancini needs to stay or City can write this season off.

Has anyone actually called for the Managers head or are people debating his tactics and substutions?

[The Foggy Blue]

I'm pissed off that this thread exists. Managers need to stick around before a club can progress (unless of course the core of a team/squad already exits a la Chelsea).

Mancini needs to stay or City can write this season off.

Has anyone actually called for the Managers head or are people debating his tactics and substutions?

From original Original Dub post:

I'd like him to leave soon IF this brand of football continues.

Sowing seeds of doubt.

It's a results business and I personally couldn't give two shits about our "brand" of football so long as we win.

[Ted Hughes]

Most City fans aren't calling for Mancini's head at all but the press are trying to move things that way. The worry comes from the fact that the City top brass have got previous. Hardly any City fans were calling for Hughes' head apart from a few in cyberspace but it didn't stop them from sacking him.

[Wooders]

Most City fans aren't calling for Mancini's head at all but the press are trying to move things that way. The worry comes from the fact that the City top brass have got previous. Hardly any City fans were calling for Hughes' head apart from a few in cyberspace but it didn't stop them from sacking him.

to be fair I strongly believe that the sacking of hughes had very little to do with on pitch performances, I think it was his behind the scenes management style that was the undoing of him myself

[Beefymcfc]

I'm pissed off that this thread exists. Managers need to stick around before a club can progress (unless of course the core of a team/squad already exits a la Chelsea).

Mancini needs to stay or City can write this season off.

Has anyone actually called for the Managers head or are people debating his tactics and substutions?

From original Original Dub post:

I'd like him to leave soon IF this brand of football continues.

Sowing seeds of doubt.

It's a results business and I personally couldn't give two shits about our "brand" of football so long as we win.

Now't wrong with that statement Foggy, OD is simply stating his frustration at the way Mancini sets up the team to play. That then leads to some healthy debate which is still going on now.

Or, are you telling me the manager is beyond reproach and you believe everything he is doing is right?