Ballotelli

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Re: Ballotelli

Postby bigblue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:45 pm

kinkylola wrote:honestly I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact that here we have a very talented black man, who has an attitude and displays it carelessly on the pitch. He has designs above his station, and when that happens we see old school british racism pop out it's ugly head. If he was white and petulant ... or even just not black and petulant, he would get no where near the derision he receives, not only from opposing sides, but from his own teams' fans. cristiano ronaldo was as much of a cock and every bit as petulant, he was shamed and laughed at ... but not derided by his own fans. He never received this amount of vitriolic bile that spews from some people's mouths.

It's quite discomforting to witness.


I also agree with this. I think it's a bit strong to call it racist, because the word racist usually implies some degree of intent. And in Balotelli's case, I believe that people react to his skin color in a more subconscious way. Quite a few people have the mentality that because Balotelli is paid 100,000 pound/wk that he is obligated to show his appreciation and behave in a civil manner. That is to say because of the size of his paycheck, he should fit into the socially acceptable role for a successful black man.

Racism and stereotypes are driven by a fear of the unknown; fear that another group of people may be superior to yourself (more appealing to sexual partners, more physically dominant). Combine this underlying fear about the superiority of a foreigner with a confirmation by society that he in fact is superior (makes more money that you do, as money is a huge part of an individual's perceived 'value' in society), and you can start to see people act out on their own insecurities. People do this mainly by attacking the parts of the foreigner where they believe it still possible to prove their own superiority. In Balotelli's case this is his character. We know he will fuck more beautiful women that us, make more money than us, have to work less than us, be celebrated by other people in society more than us, but hey, he's a cunt. We cling to the one piece that we feel can mitigate the threat of the foreigner.

As said above, there is a reason that people like Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard, and John Terry are not attacked by everyone (even their own supporters) on a constant basis, every time they slightly act up. Sure they all have been criticized as some point, but over time it usually gets written off as 'a bad mistake', not an inherent character flaw. You know, he's a good ol' boy at heart. I don't mean to get political, but even with a black man being elected in the white house, you can see racism on a daily basis. Mainly, it's people being offended that Obama doesn't follow the narrative for a successful black man (enjoy what you've been given, don't cause trouble).

In reality, Balotelli doesn't owe us anything besides to score goals and see out his contract. Anything else is up for him to do what he wants.
Last edited by bigblue on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby guv111 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:47 pm

london blue 2 wrote:
guv111 wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:
I am of dark skin.


Maybe a little off topic, but anyone who shrugs off racism ought to be forced to watch a video which is available in full on Google Video. It's called The Untold Story of Emmett Till, and it is nightnare-ish viewing, for many reasons.


I probably missread that but I hope you're not implying that I shrug off racism?

Anyway you're right I think it is off topic. I dont see how thinking a black player is a twat turns into a debate on racism.

Edit: reading it again i'm pretty sure i miss read so my apologies.


No need to aplogise, london blue. I tacked my comment onto that thread of comments as it was the last posted at the time. I was vehement in attacking Balotelli the other day, like many others, but I'm amazed it's still dragging on and that some people are still banging their heads about him. It's time to move on and see how he plays next time. I'm not aware of any racists on MCF, but even the most liberal-minded person needs to look at the history of racism once in a while just to remind themselves of what a disgusting thing it is, hence my mentioning of that documentary.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby guv111 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:02 pm

bigblue wrote:We know he will fuck more beautiful women that us


In my case, I find that highly unlikely.

bigblue wrote:As said above, there is a reason that people like Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard, and John Terry are not attacked by everyone (even their own supporters) on a constant basis, every time they slightly act up. Sure they all have been criticized as some point, but over time it usually gets written off as 'a bad mistake', not an inherent character flaw. You know, a good ol' boy at heart.


A slightly unfortunate turn of phrase, but perhaps pertinent to some. Some people are less than honest when posed that question.

bigblue wrote:I don't mean to get political, but even with a black man being elected in the white house, you can see racism on a daily basis. Mainly, it's people being offended that Obama doesn't follow the narrative for a successful black man (enjoy what you've been given, don't cause trouble).


That is undoubtedly true. Since Obama's election, there has been a vast increase in the number of race hate groups in the US. We needn't think ourselves superior, either. We need only a moderately leftist Labour government in the UK and we see organisations like the BNP and EDL become much more vocal. We who use decently-minded football forums like this are insulated against much of the hate speech which proliferates elsewhere. We can never consider racism as a relic of the past.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby The Man In Blue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:35 pm

Wow, heavy thread like, man.

Balo is a twenty year old lad. I bet we all had massive fucking chips on our shoulders about some perceived injustices when we were that age. Difference is vast majority of us would not have had millions of people scrutinising our every move like he has.

Show him videos of how he behaves now in five years and I bet he will cringe with embarrassment. That's growing the fuck up, football or no.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby Rag_hater » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:40 pm

carl_feedthegoat wrote:Go do one.

AC Milan - please take this bag of attitude from us - the biggest wanker ever to put on a blue shirt.


To me, I'm only going of the comments you make on here and what I read about Balo and see on the pitch.
You both seem if you don't like me fuck you type of people and I can only imagine you were lets say more vociferous when you were 20 yrs old.
It strikes me as strange that you are not more forgiving of Balo's lets say faults.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:02 pm

Blokes like Balotelli wind some people up the wrong way. It's not true to suggest that all Utd fans are all happy about Rooney or all Chelsea fans are happy about John Terry. When you're winning trophies every season, the dissent isn't as apparent.

I think this thread was grossly unfair on Balotelli but some of the things he's done since we signed him have wound me up too, so if he goes down that road, I'll be joining the people on his case. I think he'll be fine though & the same people will soon be complimenting him. He is one of the biggest nutters in the world of football though so he will cause controversy.

RSC got even more unfair treatment than Balotelli; he keeps his head down, says nowt wrong & smiles at everyone yet some people were almost hoping he'd fuck up & crucified him for the slightest misplaced pass. It's got nothing to do with skin colour. It's just football.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby Goataldo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:28 pm

[quote="Tru_Blu"]I'm black and if you are not you will NEVER be able to understand racism PERIOD.quote]

Is that supposed to be a wind up? Being black might give you a better understanding of racism towards black people. Maybe. It bloody well should do if you have a decent level of intelligence, which despite the above quoted slur of yours, I'm assuming you have.

But your statement is patronising and wrong. How do you know others can't understand racism?? Don't speak of others capabilities of understanding prejudice, ignorance, and racial hatred. It's ignorant and prejudicial of you to do so.

I've experienced quite a bit of racism in my time, and whilst I'm not trying to get into some sort of pissing contest with you about it, even if I hadn't, it wouldn't mean I didn't 'understand racism', whatever you mena by that rather broad and sweeping term.

Please try to read the above without looking at my pic, which might make me look a little like a right-wing nutcase btw! Tru_Blu, maybe you should wear a City shirt at all times, then people will just be prejudiced against you for that instead, unless you're in Manc.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby kinkylola » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:08 pm

Alioune DVToure wrote:I'd really drop it now mate if I were you as, whatever your motives, you are beginning to come across as patronising and superior.


i'm sure you read the thread and after this comment I did offer up an apology. I'm being genuine in everything I say here, and I do believe that racism is a huge problem. And I do believe that there are other factors at work behind the treatment of balotelli beyond his attitude. It just doesn't fit.

"casual racism" and good ole boy mentality go a long way ...

I don't expect balotelli to get special treatment because of his situation, be it good or bad. Right now he is receiving a whole lot of negative treatment from all sides, for reasons that I can't see.

as regards RSC: he got nowhere near the hatred that mario is getting. RSC was never an object of hatred for anyone, he was just became a joke. No matter what he did or didn't do, there were plenty of people who believed he could come good given the chance. Even the people who didn't think he would come good never hated him, they just laughed at him and blamed Hughes. It's not RSC's fault for his injury record after all. No mention of the fact that when he did play he never looked like doing much of anything ... but there is hatred for balotelli.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby The Man In Blue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:34 pm

kinkylola wrote:as regards RSC: he got nowhere near the hatred that mario is getting.


sorry, whist i don't really give a fuck about the rest of this thread have to pull you up on this. RSC got WAY more vitriol than Mario has had. "Worst signing ever" "Fuck off out of my club" etc.
Last edited by The Man In Blue on Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby mr_nool » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:34 pm

guv111 wrote:
bigblue wrote:We know he will fuck more beautiful women that us


In my case, I find that highly unlikely.

bigblue wrote:As said above, there is a reason that people like Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard, and John Terry are not attacked by everyone (even their own supporters) on a constant basis, every time they slightly act up. Sure they all have been criticized as some point, but over time it usually gets written off as 'a bad mistake', not an inherent character flaw. You know, a good ol' boy at heart.


A slightly unfortunate turn of phrase, but perhaps pertinent to some. Some people are less than honest when posed that question.

bigblue wrote:I don't mean to get political, but even with a black man being elected in the white house, you can see racism on a daily basis. Mainly, it's people being offended that Obama doesn't follow the narrative for a successful black man (enjoy what you've been given, don't cause trouble).


That is undoubtedly true. Since Obama's election, there has been a vast increase in the number of race hate groups in the US. We needn't think ourselves superior, either. We need only a moderately leftist Labour government in the UK and we see organisations like the BNP and EDL become much more vocal. We who use decently-minded football forums like this are insulated against much of the hate speech which proliferates elsewhere. We can never consider racism as a relic of the past.


Weren't you the one dishing out death wishes a while back? What happened? Reading this thread you come across as sensible person ...
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby guv111 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:37 pm

uwes_skyblue_duvet wrote:maybe you should wear a City shirt at all times, then people will just be prejudiced against you for that instead, unless you're in Manc.


I was agreeing with much of what you said till that bit. To compare racial prejudice with your disposable ability to wear whatever shirt suits you is incredibly naive.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby Alioune DVToure » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:37 pm

kinkylola wrote:
Alioune DVToure wrote:I'd really drop it now mate if I were you as, whatever your motives, you are beginning to come across as patronising and superior.


i'm sure you read the thread and after this comment I did offer up an apology. I'm being genuine in everything I say here, and I do believe that racism is a huge problem. And I do believe that there are other factors at work behind the treatment of balotelli beyond his attitude. It just doesn't fit.

"casual racism" and good ole boy mentality go a long way ...

I don't expect balotelli to get special treatment because of his situation, be it good or bad. Right now he is receiving a whole lot of negative treatment from all sides, for reasons that I can't see.

as regards RSC: he got nowhere near the hatred that mario is getting. RSC was never an object of hatred for anyone, he was just became a joke. No matter what he did or didn't do, there were plenty of people who believed he could come good given the chance. Even the people who didn't think he would come good never hated him, they just laughed at him and blamed Hughes. It's not RSC's fault for his injury record after all. No mention of the fact that when he did play he never looked like doing much of anything ... but there is hatred for balotelli.


Fair enough if you apologised. I've not criticised Balotelli anyway so I didn't need an apology personally. Still, though, telling people they're racist will get their backs up. Explaining to them exactly why they're racist will really ruffle feathers.

I think you got this one wrong, but a forum is nothing if not a place for debate.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby guv111 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:45 pm

mr_nool wrote:Weren't you the one dishing out death wishes a while back? What happened? Reading this thread you come across as sensible person ...


Death threats are just a part of my infinitesimal array of delightful character traits ;)
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby The Man In Blue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:47 pm

guv111 wrote:
mr_nool wrote:Weren't you the one dishing out death wishes a while back? What happened? Reading this thread you come across as sensible person ...


Death threats are just a part of my infinitesimal array of delightful character traits ;)


just out of interest, what happened to you that night? always struck me as an intelligent and logical poster before that, than combusted in a fireball of wankerishness. pissed?
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby guv111 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:51 pm

The Man In Blue wrote:
guv111 wrote:
mr_nool wrote:Weren't you the one dishing out death wishes a while back? What happened? Reading this thread you come across as sensible person ...


Death threats are just a part of my infinitesimal array of delightful character traits ;)


just out of interest, what happened to you that night? always struck me as an intelligent and logical poster before that, than combusted in a fireball of wankerishness. pissed?


Yep. Seriously, you wouldn't have wanted to be me when I woke up the next morning. I can only assume the mods took previous good (well, okay, "half decent") behaviour into account.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby The Man In Blue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:56 pm

guv111 wrote:
The Man In Blue wrote:
guv111 wrote:
mr_nool wrote:Weren't you the one dishing out death wishes a while back? What happened? Reading this thread you come across as sensible person ...


Death threats are just a part of my infinitesimal array of delightful character traits ;)


just out of interest, what happened to you that night? always struck me as an intelligent and logical poster before that, than combusted in a fireball of wankerishness. pissed?


Yep. Seriously, you wouldn't have wanted to be me when I woke up the next morning. I can only assume the mods took previous good (well, okay, "half decent") behaviour into account.


we've all been there (well maybe not the death threats). As an aside, Everton seem to bring out the worst. ask Uwe's_Duvet, I almost got us into a proper ruck outside CoMS after one of the recent Everton debacles due to my stupid, cuntish behaviour.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby guv111 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:05 pm

The Man In Blue wrote:we've all been there (well maybe not the death threats). As an aside, Everton seem to bring out the worst. ask Uwe's_Duvet, I almost got us into a proper ruck outside CoMS after one of the recent Everton debacles due to my stupid, cuntish behaviour.


Good of you to admit it, mate. The annoying thing for me is that I start to think I'm mellowing into this message board lark, then - BAM! - along comes something (like booze, usually) to prove I haven't.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby Goataldo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:03 pm

guv111 wrote:
uwes_skyblue_duvet wrote:maybe you should wear a City shirt at all times, then people will just be prejudiced against you for that instead, unless you're in Manc.


I was agreeing with much of what you said till that bit. To compare racial prejudice with your disposable ability to wear whatever shirt suits you is incredibly naive.


Aw c'mon man, I was trying to inject a little levity, dare I call it humour(?) so I wasn't just banging on about racism. It was a joke.

Maybe I should have included an exclamation mark or summat.

So with that cleared up, you can agree with me completely, like everyone should!
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby Goataldo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:05 pm

The Man In Blue wrote:
guv111 wrote:
The Man In Blue wrote:
guv111 wrote:
mr_nool wrote:Weren't you the one dishing out death wishes a while back? What happened? Reading this thread you come across as sensible person ...


Death threats are just a part of my infinitesimal array of delightful character traits ;)


just out of interest, what happened to you that night? always struck me as an intelligent and logical poster before that, than combusted in a fireball of wankerishness. pissed?


Yep. Seriously, you wouldn't have wanted to be me when I woke up the next morning. I can only assume the mods took previous good (well, okay, "half decent") behaviour into account.


we've all been there (well maybe not the death threats). As an aside, Everton seem to bring out the worst. ask Uwe's_Duvet, I almost got us into a proper ruck outside CoMS after one of the recent Everton debacles due to my stupid, cuntish behaviour.


Yup. A snarling, barging, wounded animal spitting abuse at all comers. Would've smacked him myself if he dint look so threatening.
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Re: Ballotelli

Postby The Man In Blue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:15 pm

Thanks mate, that really means a lot to me.
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