FAO John68 Re: Nagative Fans

[Slim]

I haven't witnessed any negativity about our chances of finishing 4th!?

See, told you to stop it or you'd go blind.

But I enjoy it!

Seriously though, apart form a few miserable fuclers on here I would say the vast majority of City fans are pretty upbeat about our chances.

What a nagative fan? Part horse?

Honestly I could not be more upbeat about this, losing in a derby match won't be the make or break of this season and 3 wins prior to that were somewhat breathtaking at times.

[King Kev]

Honestly I could not be more upbeat about this, losing in a derby match won't be the make or break of this season and 3 wins prior to that were somewhat breathtaking at times.

Exactly! If anything I reckon the defeat will galvanise us into stepping things up a gear or 2. It's still all in our hands and I am confident that we will be in the Champs League next season.

The thing is, I reckon most City fans agree, which is why I was somewhat surprised to see this thread.

[Patrick]

I love the word nagative - it should be included in the oed immediately

Im certain that the internet has a huge effect on the amount of critical comment made about a team

When you go to a game and have a shocking performance you have a good moan for 5 minutes and then try and cheer each other up in the pub

You just wouldnt bother drinking with people who kept on pushing their whinging pint after pint as can happen on the internet

Therefore the pub is better than the internet - fact

[Sister of fu]

I hear a lot of negativity at games and I think Dazby when he came to the Brum game could not believe what he was hearing. For example we were keeping the ball and it happend to make it's way towards Shay who then passed to Kolo (you know keeping the ball and being patient) and people sat near us were doing there nut. Fucking boot it, get it forward, what you fucking doing!! What the fuck???

IMO some of the negativity comes from fans with no football brain who just wanna see Brazilian football and 6-1 wins every week. It's the same sort of fans that would cheer on a lazy fucker like Robby and then slag off Shay for not "booting" it up the pitch!!

[Slim]

I hear a lot of negativity at games and I think Dazby when he came to the Brum game could not believe what he was hearing. For example we were keeping the ball and it happend to make it's way towards Shay who then passed to Kolo (you know keeping the ball and being patient) and people sat near us were doing there nut. Fucking boot it, get it forward, what you fucking doing!! What the fuck???

IMO some of the negativity comes from fans with no football brain who just wanna see Brazilian football and 6-1 wins every week. It's the same sort of fans that would cheer on a lazy fucker like Robby and then slag off Shay for not "booting" it up the pitch!!

I want to see Brazilian football and 6-1 wins every week though.

[Socrates]

Well we did only win that game 5-1...

But I don't get the negative mindset we get after every defeat at all. People talking now like we won't win another match after losing in 93rd minute to them again. But the facts totally contradict that view. Every single time we have lost this season we have bounced back to win the next game. EVERY time. Under both managers! So this view that every defeat means we will never win again is plain ridiculous and really should be challenged at every opportunity.

[john@staustell]

Well we did only win that game 5-1...

But I don't get the negative mindset we get after every defeat at all. People talking now like we won't win another match after losing in 93rd minute to them again. But the facts totally contradict that view. Every single time we have lost this season we have bounced back to win the next game. EVERY time. Under both managers! So this view that every defeat means we will never win again is plain ridiculous and really should be challenged at every opportunity.

The wild mood swings in fans drive you crazy. Sort of reminds you of the ducking the witch scene from ´Holy Grail` (´Burn her...') Or maybe ´what have the Romans (Sheiks) ever done for us?' from 'Life of Brian'. Psychotic or comic, one of the two.

At the end of the day we´re pretty good. More than matched Scum in the second half (instead of hanging on like grim death as in the last 20 odd years). We have a good chance at Arsenal, the best since we won there with Rodney Marsh, Joe Royle etc.

So lets get positive! A win at Arsenal and a defeat for Spuds will turn the cart right over again.

[Slim]

Well sort of...although I hope people won't be booking holidays based on that game either.

Like I said back when the poll was put up, the game it will all come down to will be the Yids game, right now I'd say that being it's at our ground we have the slight advantage...all still to play for and second last game actually means something? Fucking excellent season in my book.

[Vhero]

I been one of the most positive people on here and got fucking slated for it by negative fans you really cannot win nor have an opinion these days. I get depressed if we lose and try think of a logic reason why we lost but if I am wrong I don't mind somebody telling me why I am wrong. I hate negative people though instead using the situation as a "get in" to personally attack me. Which seems to be the flavour of the place. Luckily for you guys I take it on the chin. The thing is a few of some regulars on here have left because of them and this site will never be bigger than blue moan because of their negative attitudes. Slightly off topic I know but since we talking about negative attitudes I thought I would get that in.

I have had a few pm's which I will not discuss with anybody saying they are not gonna be visiting no more because of how people are talked to on this board. I actually stay in contact with a member who used to be a regular on here who no longer visits because of members attitudes. These members still go around here slating and swearing at other members and mods/admins do fuck all about it. I have really felt like leaving but stuck at it as there are a lot of good members on here and except for the dicks basically this is really the best City board on the web and if it wasn't for these few members it would probably be the biggest City fans site.

Sorry again for the rant/hijacking...

[Slim]

I been one of the most positive people on here and got fucking slated for it by negative fans you really cannot win nor have an opinion these days. I get depressed if we lose and try think of a logic reason why we lost but if I am wrong I don't mind somebody telling me why I am wrong. I hate negative people though instead using the situation as a "get in" to personally attack me. Which seems to be the flavour of the place. Luckily for you guys I take it on the chin. The thing is a few of some regulars on here have left because of them and this site will never be bigger than blue moan because of their negative attitudes. Slightly off topic I know but since we talking about negative attitudes I thought I would get that in.

I have had a few pm's which I will not discuss with anybody saying they are not gonna be visiting no more because of how people are talked to on this board. I actually stay in contact with a member who used to be a regular on here who no longer visits because of members attitudes. These members still go around here slating and swearing at other members and mods/admins do fuck all about it. I have really felt like leaving but stuck at it as there are a lot of good members on here and except for the dicks basically this is really the best City board on the web and if it wasn't for these few members it would probably be the biggest City fans site.

Sorry again for the rant/hijacking...

Fuck off munich.

[Ted Hughes]

I was lucky enough to have started going to some games as a little kid during that Championship winning season & then more & more often in the years that followed.

I have to say that I both agree & disagree with comments by John & Doug etc. I do think that many City fans were positive in their expectations (but that soon changed with some) & it's true that the support of the team today is an absolute waste of time compared to what it was then but I can remember for instance, how shocked I was by the treatment of some 'fringe' players such as Ian Bowyer. Grown men (& women) were shouting dogs abuse at him for merely mis-controlling a ball etc.

It was much much worse than even people like Samaras used to get & I found it appalling even as a kid. There were also groups of whingers who used to start grumbling during games if things weren't going our way & the 'boo boys' particularly in the Platt Lane stand were prominent as soon as we hit a bad spell. As kids we used to bet on when the grumble would rise from there & who would be the main target. It probably got worse the longer Swales was at the club.

If you compare the late 60's & then the 70's team to this one though (similar expectations in the 70's), the support they got was on the whole (apart from against the occasional Carlisle etc) much louder, much more passionate & the belief much stronger.

[Manx Blue]

I been one of the most positive people on here and got fucking slated for it by negative fans you really cannot win nor have an opinion these days. I get depressed if we lose and try think of a logic reason why we lost but if I am wrong I don't mind somebody telling me why I am wrong. I hate negative people though instead using the situation as a "get in" to personally attack me. Which seems to be the flavour of the place. Luckily for you guys I take it on the chin. The thing is a few of some regulars on here have left because of them and this site will never be bigger than blue moan because of their negative attitudes. Slightly off topic I know but since we talking about negative attitudes I thought I would get that in.

I have had a few pm's which I will not discuss with anybody saying they are not gonna be visiting no more because of how people are talked to on this board. I actually stay in contact with a member who used to be a regular on here who no longer visits because of members attitudes. These members still go around here slating and swearing at other members and mods/admins do fuck all about it. I have really felt like leaving but stuck at it as there are a lot of good members on here and except for the dicks basically this is really the best City board on the web and if it wasn't for these few members it would probably be the biggest City fans site.

Sorry again for the rant/hijacking...

Fuck off munich.

Bit of Edge on you this morning Slim?

Nice bits of Nostalgia from John68 there...Shame I was born in '71.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I was lucky enough to have started going to some games as a little kid during that Championship winning season & then more & more often in the years that followed.

I have to say that I both agree & disagree with comments by John & Doug etc. I do think that many City fans were positive in their expectations (but that soon changed with some) & it's true that the support of the team today is an absolute waste of time compared to what it was then but I can remember for instance, how shocked I was by the treatment of some 'fringe' players such as Ian Bowyer. Grown men (& women) were shouting dogs abuse at him for merely mis-controlling a ball etc.

It was much much worse than even people like Samaras used to get & I found it appalling even as a kid. There were also groups of whingers who used to start grumbling during games if things weren't going our way & the 'boo boys' particularly in the Platt Lane stand were prominent as soon as we hit a bad spell. As kids we used to bet on when the grumble would rise from there & who would be the main target. It probably got worse the longer Swales was at the club.

If you compare the late 60's & then the 70's team to this one though (similar expectations in the 70's), the support they got was on the whole (apart from against the occasional Carlisle etc) much louder, much more passionate & the belief much stronger.

A couple of thoughts on that Ted.I don't actually think my expectations or the majority back in 68 were of winning the league.There vwasn't a pressure to do that given where we had just come from. Certainly not for most of the season until it started to dawn that we were getting to the business end of the season and there we were.That initial lack of expectation is the opposite of this season where so many expected us to rule the world almost instantly with the money we had. No expectations in 68 and no patience in 2009/10.

On the Ian Bowyer whilst he wasn't exactly 1968 was he yes I suppose there was some of that but not around me. I was more surrounded with folk who thought ,although not being a great he gave his all and that was good enough.There will always be players who weren't fans favourites but I don't think ir ever got as vicious as it is now with fans forums and the internet world spreading the bile so quickly.

[lets all have a disco]

If i dont think we'll get the required points to qualify for the chumps i am allowed to say.
Dont give a shit if folk say im negative.

I'll still be at the ground supporting them against Villa.

[brite blu sky]

great memories here from the older lads.

I have a couple of points to add to the debate a bit. One major point is the mind set of some people. There are people who just have a negative view of life, they just cant see the positive or adopt a positive viewpoint for whatever reason.. Growing up in m/c during the 70's i have to be honest and say that the number of such people around was incredible. Although i should qualify that statement by saying that it tended to be the older generations that just seemed to me to be miserable. ( inflation, 3 day week and electricity cuts might have had something to do with it i guess ).

Ok so that said, times have changed, consumerism and disposable income have supposedly cheered people up, but it is highly likely there are still a lot of people who as i say just cant see the positive.
In my own experience these folk are the very same types who slag everything off, its like they are pissed that the world isn't perfect and therefore feel they have a god given right to vent their frustrations, often loudly and always without consideration for others or other ways of thinking/ being.

The second point is about our modern culture, not the internet but the rise of the cynical. In the days that john1868 is talking about, the press and the commentary just wasn't in the mode of taking a contrary stance and asking difficult questions or ripping into people. It was an era when heroes still walked the earth and we all kind of bowed down and didnt ask any questions. it is much more recent ( post punk ) that there was a change in attitude and the press for one started to dig around and not be so naive. So you got a lot more of public figures who were being found out beating their wives, taking backhanders and worse. Before this change no-one asked any questions, in fact it was as though there was never anything wrong at least at a public level.
That changed gradually and the upshot is that nowadays no-one believes anything, everything is taken with a pinch of salt and it is open season to be cynical and critical. Seems almost full circle to me, where if there is something good happening it is kind of ignored and everyone is suggesting there has to be an alternative motive.. something basically negative in nature, but the people who do that never have to justify their cynicism or what their motives are. The press is a good example.

So the younger generations now imo have grown up with this cynicism as normal. Im not saying that is a particularly bad thing in principal, but imo there is no balance, no justification for the negativity shown. the internet just makes this easier to do, to get an audience for your views. We seem to think that it is the way to be.

In relation to football and slagging off players, while i agree with Ted that it has always been the case, it may well be worse now with fans believing they have the right to do so, partly due to what i wrote above and partly the celebrity culture we now have. I mean the press attempts to slag off anyone and everyone who sticks their head above the parapet, so if you are looking for excuses to do the same you dont have to look very far do you ?

Finally the boo boys and the lack of understanding of football. It is perfect entertainment and if it isn't then ...!
As SoF says there is a direct link between these people and lack of understanding of the basics of the game. Although Barca have a more complicated relationship with their fans, as the club is seen as the expression of the Catalans (and as a result attracts a lot of people who know absolutely jack about football imo ). At the Camp Nou the crowd are fuclin terrible, they sit there in silence and immediately start whistling and booing if Barca dont get into their groove, they dont cheer on attacks, they dont sing, they just sit there complaining unless the team are winning or look like they are going to. the only time this is different is in big games where a good section of the crowd get things going. Normally you can have a conversation on your mobile without having to raise your voice even in the ends!
But then for some reason Catalans are a fuclin miserable bunch despite being rich, living by the sea in a warm and quite beautiful place, go figure that out.

[mcfc1632]

If i dont think we'll get the required points to qualify for the chumps i am allowed to say.
Dont give a shit if folk say im negative.

I'll still be at the ground supporting them against Villa.

Absolutely - What a really silly thread - what purpose???

There are a few of us that have questioned tactics against the scum - big deal - it was clear they were wrong - why is that negative rather than an entirely valid observation made on an internet forum? Is this not the purpose of the forum?

I am flying off after the game tomorrow but will fly back in overnight for the Villa game and I have booked the end of my break to get me back for the Spurs game - I am forking out for hospitality at Upton Park - how can I be negative - I have supported Mancini throughout and it is really strange to see some posters that really slagged off the previous management to even make comments on this thread

[Slim]

Bit of Edge on you this morning Slim?

Nice bits of Nostalgia from John68 there...Shame I was born in '71.

I seriously doubt anyone ran off to Vhero and cried about leaving the forum. I know people, but I won't say who. Just Vhero having a whinge cause he hasn't had an original thought in nearly 10,000 posts and those he copies, he inevitably gets wrong.

@mcfc1632:When I spoke out about the previous management, I was figuratively fucked up the arse by a large number of posters for not being behind the management and therefore not behind the club, not only that but having your say once meant that every fucking thing you posted whether on the topic or not was yet another opportunity certain posters used to have shot after fucking shot on the same subject. It got fucking tedious and it was like "am I not entitled to an opinion around here".

Now we are in a different situation with people switching sides and the same people who claimed that not being behind the management was not being behind the team are crying foul, saying they aren't entitled to an opinion? Well they were, and again, and again. Eventually you just gotta tell them to suck it the fuck up and get behind the team, which they use to whinge about not being entitled to an opinion? Fucking hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Being pro-Hughes seems to equal being anti-Mancini and they are singing from the rooftops at every set back, win 3 and the place was a ghost town, lose the derby(a match I bank on zero points on every season) and the place explodes, people should really be able to admit they were wrong and after destroying teams, Ronan comes out with "we've only won once against top 7 opposition". Not Mancini's only lost once against top 4 opposition. Not Mancini has won as many away games in 4 months that Hughes did in a year and a fucking half. Skew skew skew, just to get Mancini looking like a cunt and making sure that his opinion and his voice were the ones carried the furthest. Same as last year, only it was the minority(hughes out) who were making the most noise right? Wrong, the most noise came from the replies shouting them down, claiming we weren't supporting City because we weren't backing Hughes blindly into 10th place. And why was it cited that we hated hughes? because he was a rag? because he was a thug manager? Actually the one that stuck was that because we didn't want Sven sacked. Fucking hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[Original Dub]

Bit of Edge on you this morning Slim?

Nice bits of Nostalgia from John68 there...Shame I was born in '71.

I seriously doubt anyone ran off to Vhero and cried about leaving the forum. I know people, but I won't say who. Just Vhero having a whinge cause he hasn't had an original thought in nearly 10,000 posts and those he copies, he inevitably gets wrong.

@mcfc1632:When I spoke out about the previous management, I was figuratively fucked up the arse by a large number of posters for not being behind the management and therefore not behind the club, not only that but having your say once meant that every fucking thing you posted whether on the topic or not was yet another opportunity certain posters used to have shot after fucking shot on the same subject. It got fucking tedious and it was like "am I not entitled to an opinion around here".

Now we are in a different situation with people switching sides and the same people who claimed that not being behind the management was not being behind the team are crying foul, saying they aren't entitled to an opinion? Well they were, and again, and again. Eventually you just gotta tell them to suck it the fuck up and get behind the team, which they use to whinge about not being entitled to an opinion? Fucking hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Being pro-Hughes seems to equal being anti-Mancini and they are singing from the rooftops at every set back, win 3 and the place was a ghost town, lose the derby(a match I bank on zero points on every season) and the place explodes, people should really be able to admit they were wrong and after destroying teams, Ronan comes out with "we've only won once against top 7 opposition". Not Mancini's only lost once against top 4 opposition. Not Mancini has won as many away games in 4 months that Hughes did in a year and a fucking half. Skew skew skew, just to get Mancini looking like a cunt and making sure that his opinion and his voice were the ones carried the furthest. Same as last year, only it was the minority(hughes out) who were making the most noise right? Wrong, the most noise came from the replies shouting them down, claiming we weren't supporting City because we weren't backing Hughes blindly into 10th place. And why was it cited that we hated hughes? because he was a rag? because he was a thug manager? Actually the one that stuck was that because we didn't want Sven sacked. Fucking hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Good rant chief, nice. However, you fail to note that after our brilliant wins I was on this site loving every minute. You seem to think I want Mancini to fail. That's a load of bollox and the big thing people seem to forget is that there were people on here who WANTED hughes to fail because he was hughes. Simple as that. Some will even admit to that.

That is not the case with Mancini. Everyone wants him to do well. Why would anyone have anything against him?

There is no agenda here like there was last season and you keep pointing out that I wanted hughes gone if we didn't get 7th "then I changed my mind".... BIG SWINGING COCK IF I CHANGED MY MIND!!
Hell, I could well change my mind again a few times. The fact you try to hang me for it at every occasion is fucking childish.

And while we're at it - how come you don't ever pin yourself to the cause? I've said it to you before, for all your shouting, you're the biggest fence sitter on the site. All you do is shout other people's opinions/concerns down.

Have you an opinion of your own and if so, have you had no concerns over any of our play under Mancini?
Also, I mentioned we had only won once in the league against top 8 opposition because its damn relevant when we're about to face three teams from the top 8 where we need 6 points minimum. So fucking drawing or "not losing" doesn't come into it.

I want fourth and I couldn't give a bollox if Mark Hughes, Roberto Mancini or fucking Sven is managing us, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, because you obviously had trouble taking it in:
If I am aprehensive of an up coming game, I will say so. That doesn't mean I want my fucking team to lose.

Hopefully SOME of that has gotten through.

[john68]

Ted,
Whilst you are quite correct about the destructive and abusive negativity meted out to the young Ian Bowyer by City fans, that destroyed the kid as a City player and caused him to be sold on to Forest, Gillie's original point was specific to 1968 and I confined my points and memories to that season.
Bowyer made his debut the following season !968-69, but only made 3 appearances.
It was 2 seasons after Gillie's originally targetted season, in 1969-70 that Bowyer became a 1st team regular and any abuse would only have begun, either during or after that time.

Had Gillie specified a wider group of seasons, I would wholeheartedly agree with you Ted, that the City fans did indeed ultimately destroy Bowyer's City career by some disgusting abuse. The fact that he subsequently went on to become an accomplished player for Forest and won European Cup Winners' and League Championship medals with them adds weight to your point.

[john68]

I think there is a danger of lumping ALL types of criticism into the same pot and going a bit overboard here. Fans have always been critiical of players, tactics, managers etc, That has always gone with the territory. Fans have always had their favourites, had their arguments and points and argued them strongly. Personally, I have never had a problem with constructive criticism nor any analytical critique. Nor should anyone believe that in 1968, everything in the garden was rosy. We had a few who were just as negative then, human nature hasn't changed that much.
We are still work in progress and probably always wil be, there will always be tactics and players that we will discuss and debate but IMHO we should be doing so from the baseline that; we now have a team who's record compares reasonably with 2 of the most iconic tems we have historically ever had. Teams that eventually went on to become Champions.
We should be jumping for joy at the vast amount of progress we have made and celebrating the fact that at this point in the season, we have CL qualification within our own control.
Put the prozac tissues away and get out the champers and streamers. Whatever happens over the next few games, we still have enough reason to party.
The future may be bright and blue...but so is the present.