The team's weaknesses

[Bridge'srightfoot]

I've come to the conlusion that whoever criticises Zonal marking is basing their opinions by listening to the pundits instead of actually studying the two and coming to the actual conclusion that zonal marking is the easiest and most effective way of dealing with set pieces.

Andy Gray and Alan Hansen like to point out when a team has conceded from a set piece due to zonal marking which in their eyes is this modern foriegn shit because it happens every so often. If they were to individually analyse goals conceded from set pieces due to man marking they wouldn't have time to show the other matches.

How can you defend zonal marking? it complicates things. It should just be you stick to your man and if he moves you move.
Just look how many we concede from set pieces.

Another thing why do we bring so many players back to defend set pieces? it just means the other team can put everyone forward.

[brite blu sky]

The buzz word in Rugby league a few years ago was INTENSITY and the reasons given why the GB team seemed to fail against the Aussies was their abilty to play at a high intensity for the whole game, whereas we seemed to switch on and off during a game.

I see that happening with City. We have great ability but it needs switching on and often we just seem to switch it back off.

Sometimes our passing game seems to be slow and contrived. I think as we evolve, we will see it become more flowing and intuitive. We're still new and evolving at this.

I hope you are right John. I have some concerns partly due to the fact this has happened a few times and Mancini and the other coaches have not jumped on it, or at least dont seem to have. Teams can develop characteristics and if not nipped in the bud they can develop. I hope they get an old fashioned bollocking Peter Reid style. I hope too that Kiddo will get vocal on this as he has more experience of english football and the fact that you cannot get away with taking it easy and not being fired up.
Bizzarely now we are showing signs of being able to pass it around like barca we have also caught their occasional weakness too, that of underestimating opponents and the work required to see them off.
Personally i think it would be a mistake to hope this tendency will disappear with time, it needs severely jumping on now as it should have been jumped on after Stoke first half and Everton first half.

[Ted Hughes]

I've come to the conlusion that whoever criticises Zonal marking is basing their opinions by listening to the pundits instead of actually studying the two and coming to the actual conclusion that zonal marking is the easiest and most effective way of dealing with set pieces.

Andy Gray and Alan Hansen like to point out when a team has conceded from a set piece due to zonal marking which in their eyes is this modern foriegn shit because it happens every so often. If they were to individually analyse goals conceded from set pieces due to man marking they wouldn't have time to show the other matches.

Because nobody in the world, apart from you, has the intelligence or knowledge to analyse a system & discuss it's pro's & cons of course?

The funny thing is; you're so ignorant of the subject that you don't even realise that Hansen is an advocate of zonal marking, he used to use it with Liverpool. Get your facts right before you start looking down your nose at people, you just make a tit of yourself.

Personally I don't have a problem with either system, the key, & the point these blokes are making is, whichever one you use; do it properly.

[john68]

Sorry BBS, I think you misunderstood me mate. I agree with you about the intensity and am absolutely certain that it needs to be worked on. The ability to switch on from the kick off and not switch off again until the final whistle blows could be a major obstacle to our progress at the top level.
It is a weakness that many teams have in many sprots and it is no coincidence that the successful teams are the ones that seem to have the better powers of concentration.
We have only to look at the derbies last season to understand that. We come on here and complain about the regularity that the rags get those last minute goals. Is it luck or concentration?

My other point was about the speed of our passing game and my optimism that it will improve as we settle.

Just a note of caution...I know this thread is singularly about our weaknesses but we shouldn't get too carried away with our frailties. Not when there is so much positive stuff happening at the club and we are making so many advances.

[Ted Hughes]

Sorry BBS, I think you misunderstood me mate. I agree with you about the intensity and am absolutely certain that it needs to be worked on. The ability to switch on from the kick off and not switch off again until the final whistle blows could be a major obstacle to our progress at the top level.
It is a weakness that many teams have in many sprots and it is no coincidence that the successful teams are the ones that seem to have the better powers of concentration.
We have only to look at the derbies last season to understand that. We come on here and complain about the regularity that the rags get those last minute goals. Is it luck or concentration?

My other point was about the speed of our passing game and my optimism that it will improve as we settle.

Just a note of caution...I know this thread is singularly about our weaknesses but we shouldn't get too carried away with our frailties. Not when there is so much positive stuff happening at the club and we are making so many advances.

Starting games with intensity is often a good thing to aim for of course but I think if you were to look at each top team over the last few years, there will be plenty of occasions when they don't succeed in doing it & other games when they intentionally don't try. If we keep control of the ball away from home like we did at Villa though, we'll win a lot of games whether we start with intensity or not.

Although it didn't work at Villa because they did a job on us, starting a game like that at Chelsea or the swamp or Goodison or Anfield etc would probably be the correct way to do it; take the sting out of them & their fans straight away by 1st & foremost controlling possession. If we'd started like that at Arsenal & Spurs for instance, rather than giving the ball away all the time, it would have been a lot less stressful!

[brite blu sky]

I think it is me that is not making my point very well. What i am concerned with is more the mentality behind the level of intensity. In other words the actual playing intensity comes form the mentality behind it, so as Ted suggests it doesn't necessarily have to come out 24/7 so to speak.. it can be controlled and used at will. So my point is more that we sometimes dont show that mental ability and struggle to pick up the pace or get stuck in when it is required.
The rags seem like they are so worried about what baconface will say to them as a group if they dont try hard enough, that they put everything into it before HT or in the last minutes, as much to avoid the humiliation he will dish out as anything else.

i dont really know, but the first half perfomances at Stoke, home to Everton and at Villa needed absolutley lambasting in the strongest terms for the players as a group to realise it is just totally unacceptable. So ultimately they can develop the team characteristic that realises this itself and does something about it, without the need for someone else to tell them.

City are going to a land where there simply are no excuses, every single game is a cup final and a derby thrown into one and comfort zones physical or mental have no place whatsoever against any opposition be them bottom of the table or top.

Maybe i am jumping the gun a bit and they need a bit more time, but basically we now have a team that has no real weak links, we are solid and can play really well together.. there are no glaring structural problems, from here on in it is all about the characteristic and mentality of the group.
Playing half a game fuclin asleep is not acceptable.

[john68]

I think other words that need inserting into our squad's vocabulary are "ASSERTION", "CONTROL", and "DOMINANCE".
The ability that some teams have to seem have, the power to choose what pace the game is played, in what areas of the pitch and the power to dictate the general flow of the game.

As we have brought new players in and watched as our squad has seemingly become stronger, some have wondered about the time it takes to gel and get player understanding to a level that becomes almost intuitive. Intensity, control, assertion, dominance and other issues, are those final qualities that defines our 25 man squad of individuals as a "TEAM" capable of competing at the very top.

[brite blu sky]

I would say so John yes. There is a time for patience and rightly so, Dzeko as yet needs time to settle in and it will have a knock on effect to those around and the virility of the attack. But the midfield doesn't have any excuses like that and imo there is no need to show any patience towards the players in midfield. So as you say it is all down to the mental ability of the group.

A few years back it would be laughable to be expecting City to win every game, but now it isn't. In fact that is the basic requirement.. the team has to be hyped to the level that they will not accept to get beaten in any game anywhere against any opposition big or small. If things are not going right, someone is having a bad hair day or a collective bad day at the office, then collectively they need to realise it themselves and show the character that pulls themselves up and delivers the intensity that will force the issue with whoever they are playing. Ok that takes experience and like everything else it has to be learnt, which means there have to be situations for that learning to take place... i would argue that there have been namely Stoke, Everton and Villa. Those failures need to be uppermost in the teams mind so they dont go out and start games like they did in those matches. My concern comes from the idea that i would have thought the Everton match was lesson enough.. but apparently not, so now we wait and see if the Villa game was enough or if they will let it shrink from memory and need another harsh lesson to rub it in.

Personally i think that the City first 15 are now the best in the Prem and although we may not see the best of them until next season, they still have now what it takes to beat anyone and basically as we have seen recently we only get beat when we shoot ourselves in the foot before we even start. Opponents know that their only chance of survival is to get stuck in and play like it is a pitched battle, we get caught out by that and even do our bit to oblige by being asleep or believing we can control the game by playing keep ball without any intensity, either way the question is how many more shocks do they need to eradicate that attitude?

[Ted Hughes]

I think playing keep ball is a good idea 1st and foremost but then there should be an acceleration & a purpose in the final 3rd. That's the rags secret. Sometimes it's about throwing a quick ball into an area rather than trying to be precise. Arsenal often lack that & so do we but rags & Chelsea at their best have it.

I don't think we're even close yet to knowing what our abilities are in the final 3rd though. We have players who can shoot & players who can cross but we see very little of either at the moment as it's all so new. At some point, we have to develop a few fallback routines for scoring goals, where the strikers know what kind of ball we may me about to play in & the player on the ball knows where the strikers will be going. The rags have attacking routines like that all the time & their kids teams do the same things. They do a variety of moves quickly & again & again, sometimes the same one over & over, it builds panic in the opposition & then they increase the number of players joining in. The defence end up panicking & kick the ball straight back to them.

Imo Bob will stand or fall by his, and his coaches, ability to get us operating to the correct level in the attacking 3rd. The scary thing for opponents is though, I think we're operating at about 20% of our attacking capability at the moment. At some point over the next 6 months/year Bob will have to start to get us functioning nearer our full capacity or it will show a flaw in his ability as a manager. Ferguson, or even Brian Horton, would be frightening people to death with those players, so sooner or later, Bob has to do the same.

[brite blu sky]

Spot on Ted. agree with all that, especially the idea we will get a lot better. And yes there is nothing wrong in keep ball but it isn't an end in itself and while i think you are right about the final 3rd i would add that it is also what is behind the final 3rd. Maybe sometimes the movement is not there up front and so we slow up and make heavy weather of moving it forward, on the face of it it looks like the midfield are being slow to move it up, but in reality it could be lack of clear options up front, ie lack of movement. That would be easier to gauge from the stands, TV coverage is not good for understanding that kind of thing. Maybe it is a bit of both if the whole team start sleepy.
Turning on the attack and the intensity will improve, no doubt. Starting games on mogadon needs addressing.

[Hazy2]

Not may weaknesses,We have had enough possesion this season and on Saturday to name a game to consider giving for example Villa there own ball. Douge Ellis commented best team he has seen at Villa Park in years last Saturday night. I do think we have the talent to keepit for fun, do we have a Colin Bell Frank Lampard type of player who becomes the man to pounce on the only space in the box or poor clearance. We lack at present the midfielder who gets 10/15 goals, Roberto might to have risk some own half possesion for the player to join in or beyond Dzeko. All that said we should be happy on the whole we are are where want to be, tweaking is no major drama.