ross.mcfc wrote:I havent seen Weiss as much as Cityger but probably seen him more than most on here.
He is in one of the worst Rangers sides in memory, In an appalling league and he does not stand out like a sore thumb like a player with the talent he is suppose to have should do. He rank in the CL games I saw him in. Full of tricks in the middle of the park yet delivers very little where it counts.
I dont even think he is Premiership standard to behonest. Owen Coyle seems a good judge of a player. I am sure if he saw anything in Weiss he would have tried to buy him after his loan period at Bolton.
ross.mcfc wrote:I havent seen Weiss as much as Cityger but probably seen him more than most on here.
He is in one of the worst Rangers sides in memory, In an appalling league and he does not stand out like a sore thumb like a player with the talent he is suppose to have should do. He rank in the CL games I saw him in. Full of tricks in the middle of the park yet delivers very little where it counts.
I dont even think he is Premiership standard to behonest. Owen Coyle seems a good judge of a player. I am sure if he saw anything in Weiss he would have tried to buy him after his loan period at Bolton.
john68 wrote:Nice to see you back Alan and thanks for the update,
The only thing I would question is this "aquad player" thing. As far as I'm concerned, all players are squad players and those not in the side, for whatever reason, should be of equal quality to those in the team or at least as near as possible to that quality.
If they are brought on, if only from the bench, I expect them to join the fight without any loss to our team.
Ted Hughes wrote:Weiss is better than Jo on the wing but not by as much as he should be, in fact not by much at all. I've watched him for Rangers & can't understand why he's not better. Apart from his lack of physical size, he seems to have a fair bit of everything else but the end result is a bit of a 'nothing' player.
During a game you can see him do each thing brilliantly, but never together & never in a way that makes any sense. Sometimes he'll sprint back 60 yards, tackle the oppo winger then start a move, to huge applause, yet 10 mins later he'll leave the same bloke unmarked when he's within ten yards of him, like Robinho on a bad day, & he'll put a cross in unchallenged. Similarly, he'll ghost past 4 players down the middle of the pitch like Kinkladze then pass the ball backwards to the oppo or be one against one v some wheezing, ginger, fatty & get tackled 5 times in a row.
He seems to be absolutely brimming full of talent & pace too but like most of City's academy graduates; full of bad habits that need fixing & no idea how to play football. If someone could fix him, they'd have a special player. Can't see it though.
Rag_hater wrote:Here is a list that left me a bit flabbergasted.But the guy who compiled it has taken some facts that make sense and applied them quite scientifically I think:
The number beside a player's name is his efficiency, how many of his chances he converts in a percentage. In other words, it is how many goals a player would score in 100 shots.
1. Felipe Caicedo (Levante): 33.3
2. Milivoje Novakovic (Koln): 31.6
3. Javier Hernandez (Manchester United): 26.8
4. Mario Gomez (Bayern Munich): 25.7
5. Theofanis Gekas (Eintracht Frankfurt): 25.4
6. Papiss Cisse (SC Freiburg): 24.4
7. Pedro (FC Barcelona): 24.1
8. Alessandro Matri (Juventus): 23.9
9. Alexandre Pato (AC Milan): 23.6
10. Dimitar Berbatov (Manchester United): 23.5
11. Kevin Nolan (Newcastle United): 23.513. Edinson Cavani (Napoli): 22.9
14. Salomon Rondon (Malaga): 21.4
15. Mladen Petric (Hamburg): 21.2
16. Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona): 20.8
17. Alberto Gilardino (Fiorentina): 20.8
18. Robin Van Persie (Arsenal): 20.4
19. David Trezeguet (Hercules): 20.4
20. Antonio Di Natale (Udinese): 19.7
21. Alexis Sanchez (Udinese): 18.8
22. Raul (Schalke 04): 18.5
23. Andre Schurrle (Mainz): 18.2
24. Samuel Eto'o (Inter Milan): 18.1
25. Nilmar (Villarreal): 18
26. Marco Di Vaio (Bologna): 17.6
27. Giampaolo Pazinni (Inter Milan): 17.6
28. Carlos Tevez (Manchester City): 17.4
29. Roberto Soldado (Valencia): 16.9
30. Lukas Podolski (Koln): 16.4
31. Karim Benzema (Real Madrid): 15.6
32. Luis Fabiano (formerly Sevilla): 15.6
33. Darren Bent (Aston Villa): 15.5
34. Lucas Barrios (Borussia Dortmund): 14.9
35. Andy Carroll (Liverpool): 14.7
36. Fernando Llorente (Athletic Bilbao): 14.6
37. David Villa (FC Barcelona): 14.4
38. Sergio Pellissier (Chievo): 14.3
39. Srdjan Lakic (Kaiserslautern): 13.9
40. Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid): 13.5
41. Robinho (AC Milan): 13.2
42. Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid): 13
43. Wayne Rooney (Manchester United): 13
44. Edin Dzeko (Manchester City): 13
45. Giuseppe Rossi (Villarreal): 12.9
46. Alvaro Negredo (Sevilla): 12.8
47. Marco Borriello (Roma): 12.8
48. Zlatan Ibrahimovic (AC Milan): 12.7
49. Rafael Van der Vaart (Tottenham): 11.9
50. Peter Odemwingie (West Brom): 11.9
51. Javier Pastore (Palermo): 11.2
52. Johan Elmander (Bolton): 10.5
53. Clint Dempsey (Fulham): 9.3
54. Didier Drogba (Chelsea): 8.3
Seems getting big Phill back would be worth it.
12. Didier Ya Konan (Hannover): 23.1
Dameerto wrote:So playing in a top-loaded league such as Spain scientifically proves that Caicedo is a better player than someone in a more balanced league like the Prem such as Drogba? What that shows is that you can try to make a case for anything with stats. (And that stats without context are worthless)
Rag_hater wrote:Dameerto wrote:So playing in a top-loaded league such as Spain scientifically proves that Caicedo is a better player than someone in a more balanced league like the Prem such as Drogba? What that shows is that you can try to make a case for anything with stats. (And that stats without context are worthless)
If you think the prem is balanced then we have a difference of opinion.I think the fact that we are 10 points behind the leaders at this stage of the season to me indicates anything but balance.The fact that the same teams keep winning it.Is that balance?
If Barça and Real had to play teams like Wigan ,Blackpool etc... they would unbalance the prem aswell.
And those stats just show me some more information and a different way of looking at things.
And Phill still has a long way to go so if his career turns out to be better than Drogba's in the long run its to early to tell cos niether have stopped playing.
And is it so hard to grasp Nobody is saying Phill is better than Drogba,just on the measure that is being looked at Phill is doing better than others he is measured against using that yardstick.
Mike J wrote:i was just this minute reading an article about phil on the MEN site. apparently we have already sold him for 860k! we really are shit at transfer dealings. he may not be to everyones taste but he is having a great season with a shite team. they are getting a bargain. levante then hope to sell him on for 4million! why dont we cut them out and flog him to moscow for that price.
i know we dont need the money, but still....!
mancini wouldnt have bellamy back, no matter how much the fans did.
BlueinBosnia wrote:Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:Yeah I'd have Nedum back straight away too.
Forgot he was only on loan. I'd love to have him back, too. All four of them, in fact, for next season. I think Big Phil would pair up well with Dzeko, were it not for the complete lack of pace this would give us up front.
Dubciteh wrote:Rag_hater wrote:Here is a list that left me a bit flabbergasted.But the guy who compiled it has taken some facts that make sense and applied them quite scientifically I think:
The number beside a player's name is his efficiency, how many of his chances he converts in a percentage. In other words, it is how many goals a player would score in 100 shots.
1. Felipe Caicedo (Levante): 33.3
2. Milivoje Novakovic (Koln): 31.6
3. Javier Hernandez (Manchester United): 26.8
4. Mario Gomez (Bayern Munich): 25.7
5. Theofanis Gekas (Eintracht Frankfurt): 25.4
6. Papiss Cisse (SC Freiburg): 24.4
7. Pedro (FC Barcelona): 24.1
8. Alessandro Matri (Juventus): 23.9
9. Alexandre Pato (AC Milan): 23.6
10. Dimitar Berbatov (Manchester United): 23.5
11. Kevin Nolan (Newcastle United): 23.513. Edinson Cavani (Napoli): 22.9
14. Salomon Rondon (Malaga): 21.4
15. Mladen Petric (Hamburg): 21.2
16. Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona): 20.8
17. Alberto Gilardino (Fiorentina): 20.8
18. Robin Van Persie (Arsenal): 20.4
19. David Trezeguet (Hercules): 20.4
20. Antonio Di Natale (Udinese): 19.7
21. Alexis Sanchez (Udinese): 18.8
22. Raul (Schalke 04): 18.5
23. Andre Schurrle (Mainz): 18.2
24. Samuel Eto'o (Inter Milan): 18.1
25. Nilmar (Villarreal): 18
26. Marco Di Vaio (Bologna): 17.6
27. Giampaolo Pazinni (Inter Milan): 17.6
28. Carlos Tevez (Manchester City): 17.4
29. Roberto Soldado (Valencia): 16.9
30. Lukas Podolski (Koln): 16.4
31. Karim Benzema (Real Madrid): 15.6
32. Luis Fabiano (formerly Sevilla): 15.6
33. Darren Bent (Aston Villa): 15.5
34. Lucas Barrios (Borussia Dortmund): 14.9
35. Andy Carroll (Liverpool): 14.7
36. Fernando Llorente (Athletic Bilbao): 14.6
37. David Villa (FC Barcelona): 14.4
38. Sergio Pellissier (Chievo): 14.3
39. Srdjan Lakic (Kaiserslautern): 13.9
40. Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid): 13.5
41. Robinho (AC Milan): 13.2
42. Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid): 13
43. Wayne Rooney (Manchester United): 13
44. Edin Dzeko (Manchester City): 13
45. Giuseppe Rossi (Villarreal): 12.9
46. Alvaro Negredo (Sevilla): 12.8
47. Marco Borriello (Roma): 12.8
48. Zlatan Ibrahimovic (AC Milan): 12.7
49. Rafael Van der Vaart (Tottenham): 11.9
50. Peter Odemwingie (West Brom): 11.9
51. Javier Pastore (Palermo): 11.2
52. Johan Elmander (Bolton): 10.5
53. Clint Dempsey (Fulham): 9.3
54. Didier Drogba (Chelsea): 8.3
Seems getting big Phill back would be worth it.
12. Didier Ya Konan (Hannover): 23.1
hmm thats quite interesting, is it confirmed hes been sold already?
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Dubciteh wrote:Rag_hater wrote:Here is a list that left me a bit flabbergasted.But the guy who compiled it has taken some facts that make sense and applied them quite scientifically I think:
The number beside a player's name is his efficiency, how many of his chances he converts in a percentage. In other words, it is how many goals a player would score in 100 shots.
1. Felipe Caicedo (Levante): 33.3
2. Milivoje Novakovic (Koln): 31.6
3. Javier Hernandez (Manchester United): 26.8
4. Mario Gomez (Bayern Munich): 25.7
5. Theofanis Gekas (Eintracht Frankfurt): 25.4
6. Papiss Cisse (SC Freiburg): 24.4
7. Pedro (FC Barcelona): 24.1
8. Alessandro Matri (Juventus): 23.9
9. Alexandre Pato (AC Milan): 23.6
10. Dimitar Berbatov (Manchester United): 23.5
11. Kevin Nolan (Newcastle United): 23.513. Edinson Cavani (Napoli): 22.9
14. Salomon Rondon (Malaga): 21.4
15. Mladen Petric (Hamburg): 21.2
16. Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona): 20.8
17. Alberto Gilardino (Fiorentina): 20.8
18. Robin Van Persie (Arsenal): 20.4
19. David Trezeguet (Hercules): 20.4
20. Antonio Di Natale (Udinese): 19.7
21. Alexis Sanchez (Udinese): 18.8
22. Raul (Schalke 04): 18.5
23. Andre Schurrle (Mainz): 18.2
24. Samuel Eto'o (Inter Milan): 18.1
25. Nilmar (Villarreal): 18
26. Marco Di Vaio (Bologna): 17.6
27. Giampaolo Pazinni (Inter Milan): 17.6
28. Carlos Tevez (Manchester City): 17.4
29. Roberto Soldado (Valencia): 16.9
30. Lukas Podolski (Koln): 16.4
31. Karim Benzema (Real Madrid): 15.6
32. Luis Fabiano (formerly Sevilla): 15.6
33. Darren Bent (Aston Villa): 15.5
34. Lucas Barrios (Borussia Dortmund): 14.9
35. Andy Carroll (Liverpool): 14.7
36. Fernando Llorente (Athletic Bilbao): 14.6
37. David Villa (FC Barcelona): 14.4
38. Sergio Pellissier (Chievo): 14.3
39. Srdjan Lakic (Kaiserslautern): 13.9
40. Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid): 13.5
41. Robinho (AC Milan): 13.2
42. Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid): 13
43. Wayne Rooney (Manchester United): 13
44. Edin Dzeko (Manchester City): 13
45. Giuseppe Rossi (Villarreal): 12.9
46. Alvaro Negredo (Sevilla): 12.8
47. Marco Borriello (Roma): 12.8
48. Zlatan Ibrahimovic (AC Milan): 12.7
49. Rafael Van der Vaart (Tottenham): 11.9
50. Peter Odemwingie (West Brom): 11.9
51. Javier Pastore (Palermo): 11.2
52. Johan Elmander (Bolton): 10.5
53. Clint Dempsey (Fulham): 9.3
54. Didier Drogba (Chelsea): 8.3
Seems getting big Phill back would be worth it.
12. Didier Ya Konan (Hannover): 23.1
hmm thats quite interesting, is it confirmed hes been sold already?
And is that list legit? I mean where has he gathered the list of shots by player? I think Premier League and Bundesleague are the only ones that publish them.
Esky wrote:Man City outcast Caicedo proves to be La Liga's bargain of the season
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sid_lowe/03/24/caicedo.levante/index.html#ixzz1Iw8bpkJw
"Talent contest." Normally, it's one of television's biggest lies. Whispers suggest that most of the time, the producers have already decided who is going to win. And as for talent -- real talent -- sadly, it's often conspicuous by its absence. But this time was different. This time was an exception, even if it took a while for us to realize as much; even if it was not until his fifth club and his sixth season that it became apparent just how talented he is.
The real test, though, still lies ahead: next season he'll tread a different stage, a bigger stage than anyone could have imagined 10 months back. The question now is: which one?
Felipe Caicedo was just 17 when he came to Europe to play for FC Basle in Switzerland. He had won Ecuador's equivalent of Pop Idol two years before -- only this was not for pop stars in the waiting, it was for future soccer players. It was called Camino de la Gloria, the road to glory. Alongside Edder Vaca, Javier Jaramillo, Jonatan Monar, Eder Moreira and Ángel Pután, a 15-year-old Caicedo was a winner. Thirty-four other hopefuls were left behind. The road led to River Plate in Argentina, but it did not yet lead to glory.
The experience, the chance to train with the Argentine club, was short-lived but valuable. A finishing school for players, except that Caicedo was still some way off being the finished article. It might not have launched Caicedo's career, but it did bring him to prominence and improvement. He returned to Rocafuerte, the amateur club where he had played for almost a decade, and he was called up for Ecuador's U-16s at the South American championships. Ecuador was runner-up and Caicedo got the chance to cross the ocean; he also got the chance to make the step up to the full national team -- making his debut for Ecuador at just 16 in 2005 against Italy.
FC Basle were among those with scouts at the tournament. And they were impressed. More impressed, in truth, than River had been. Caicedo wasn't so sure, but he was persuaded that this was an opportunity that was too good to pass up. His parents told him to go; so did his club. An Ecuadorean who has a tattoo of a tear near his eye to represent, as he puts it, "the hard times," Caicedo grew up as the only brother to six sisters in a Guayaquil neighborhood he describes as "dangerous," but was still just a kid. In a different country, a different world.
Off the pitch was one thing; on the pitch, another. Things went reasonably well. At first he was forced to sign youth forms and not allowed to be part of the first team squad. However, he did make his debut in September 2006, having not yet turned 18. He got a league title in his second season. He got 16 goals in 45 games over two seasons. He was second top scorer, from the left wing, and a looming, imposing presence -- powerful, fast, big. He stood out in Switzerland and in the UEFA Cup. Enough for Manchester City to make him the most expensive Ecuadorean of all time (until Antonio Valencia blew that figure apart when he signed for Man United), paying €7 million ($9.9M) for him in January 2008.
This was it. Or at least it looked that way. Three goals in three consecutive games -- against West Brom, Racing Santander and Hull City -- had the then-coach Mark Hughes predicting a fantastic future. At Ecuador training camps, this battering ram of a striker stood out.
But this was Manchester City, where even Emmanuel Adebayor had to go running for the door. A club with lots of money but little patience. And fewer opportunities. Even Hughes, who rated Caicedo, was gone before too long. Caicedo did not stagnate so much as not have the opportunities. There were hints of unhappiness off the pitch too. It just wasn't happening.
A loan deal to Sporting Lisbon in 2009-10 did not bring any goals; midway through the season he was off again, this time on loan to Málaga the following season. Survival came on the final day; four goals in 18 games was not a bad response for a side in desperate trouble but he hardly shone; he was good without being great, mediocre rather than malo (bad). If Málaga thought about keeping him -- and it did -- it did not follow through.
No one did. There was only an hour left of the summer transfer window when Levante bid for him. That's Levante, the club at which the sporting director admits: "We have to wait until everybody else has bought their players before we can move; we get everybody's castoffs, the players they don't want."
Caicedo, in truth, was a player no one wanted. One they had given up on, the guy that was going to be good but never really got there. Even though he was just 21. And that included City. It had decided to cut its losses: it would have sold but no one would buy. It agreed to pay half of his wages -- at €300,000 ($425,500) a year the highest in the squad and yet less than Leo Messi can take home in a week -- and signed a €1 million clause giving Levante the right to buy. City can afford to throw money away but happily signing away a €6 million loss spoke volumes.
So did Caicedo's destination: Camino de la Gloria? Not exactly. This was not River Plate or Manchester City or Sporting Lisbon, nor even Basle or Málaga. This was certain relegation; a team of has-beens and never-really-weres; old, limited and very, very cheap. A club in debt and administration, Levante have signed 40 players in three years. Not one cost a single cent of a euro. Valued at €1 million ($1.4M), Caicedo would be the most expensive of them. Except that, frankly, Levante had little intention of exercising its right to buy. But, hey, he came cheap. It was worth a try.
Well worth it. Levante has every intention of exercising the right to buy now. Few saw it, but Caicedo had something. So too did Levante. Caicedo himself says: "I have never seen a dressing room like this before, such unity. We're really close. This is unique for me; there are hardly words to explain it." Manager Luis García's special skill has been motivation. Players tumble off walls into each other's arms, slogans are posted on the walls and lockers and in the corridors, training sessions are carried out blindfolded. No one feels alone. Caicedo least of all. Even though, physically at least, he often is.
Levante was supposed to go down. Instead, with nine games to go it 11th, level with the side in 10. It is just five points off a European place. Three more points would take it to 38 points -- on last year's measure, sufficient to survive. Few doubt that it'll get them either. Why? Because Levante -- yes, Levante -- is Spain's third best side in the second half of the season. It has won six and lost just one of its last nine -- and that was against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu.
Caicedo has had a huge part to play, a greater part than anyone else. He has scored 11 goals this season from just 17 starts. No one else has more than four in the whole team. And it's not as if that's because he has been fed loads of chances, or because he shoots wildly and often. In fact, he has the best shots-per-goal ratio in the league. Sometimes asked to hold the ball up and bring others into play; more often asked to smash his way past defenders almost on his own. Quick, skillful, strong. And unaided.
A long ball up is an assist. It could hardly be any other way for a team conscious of its limitations. Keen to get the ball into the penalty areas as soon as it can. Keen to get it to Caicedo as fast as is possible. When Levante does, he makes it count. Only two players -- Osvaldo and Andrés Iniesta -- have a higher percentage of shots on target. Astonishingly, he has scored with just under half of his shots this season.
His goals have been evenly spread around and more valuable than anyone else's, too. They have been decisive not adornments. The second in a 2-1 win over Real Sociedad, the first and the second in a 3-1 win over Racing, the second in a 2-0 win over Atlético, the opener against Sporting and Athletic, the winner against Osasuna and the only goal against Espanyol. Goals that, using the meanest of measurements, have been directly responsible for 11 points this season. Eleven of Levante's 35.
Caicedo has become vital for Levante. Both on and off the pitch. Racked by debt, obliged to find €12 million ($17M) a year in repayments, it couldn't afford to pay €1 million for him; now, it can't afford not to. As Caicedo put it: "At €1 million, I am cheap, very cheap." Very, very, very cheap. He is a bargain, but only for Levante. During the winter, one Russian club offered €8.5 million ($12M), Levante said no. Handily, it was alerted to his potential value. Now it will pay Manchester City the €1 million and, with a hint of sadness, say "thank you very much" and sell Caicedo.
Where to, time will tell. One thing is for sure: the Ecuadorean has proved the perfect signing for the team from Valencia, the man who has become Levante's lifeline -- allowing a historic club to hang onto first division status and hang onto to solvency. This time his road may lead to glory; for Levante, his road may lead the team to survival. On and off the pitch.
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