More unfounded FIFA allegations

[Beefymcfc]

We can all be cynical and say that this is the way business is done but in reality, it shouldn't. Business is business whilst this for me is sport, and worldwide at that. There's no way a people's sport should be confined to a few individuals who have their own interests at heart. Maybe the Brits were right all those years ago about not wanting to join, and maybe the monster that is now FIFA wanted to make sure that they got their own back on what was once the home of football.

[ant london]

i am a spaz

[ant london]

I don't disagree with the sentiments about this being sport and not business....I agree that in an ideal world the whole affair would be under the stewardship of a more noble organisation and individuals.

Fact is though that the international game is very much under seige at the moment. Increasingly, the clubs do not want to have to play along with national associations and the current FIFA hiatus could potentially play right into some greedy, self-interested hands.

The likes of the Glazers and likely Fenway Sports Group I'm sure would prefer not to have to release their players to participate in tournaments such as the World Cup when they could be more lucratively engaged in playing games in new fat markets, nor do they want those players at risk which could deprive their business of a key asset (for making them more money).

A breakaway "New FIFA" is in many ways the best option but the big unknown for me is whether such a reconfiguration of the power structure would see many of the big clubs putting their feet down in relation to international football and effectively ending much of the competitive picture between nations as we know it. I don't disagree that the international calendar could do with some slimming down but where the big clubs would want it and where most fans (and likely players) would prefer things I fear would be poles apart.

The point I'm kind of making is that I think FIFA (or whatever) has to be run like a business and play by the same rules as business as many of the people on the other side of the table (Berlusconi, Agnelli, Moggi, Calderon, Glazer etc etc) are ruthless greedy self-interested bastards.

We do not want a corrupt, dishonest FIFA but FIFA does have to be run more as a business IMO

[lets all have a disco]

I don't disagree with the sentiments about this being sport and not business....I agree that in an ideal world the whole affair would be under the stewardship of a more noble organisation and individuals.

Fact is though that the international game is very much under seige at the moment. Increasingly, the clubs do not want to have to play along with national associations and the current FIFA hiatus could potentially play right into some greedy, self-interested hands.

The likes of the Glazers and likely Fenway Sports Group I'm sure would prefer not to have to release their players to participate in tournaments such as the World Cup when they could be more lucratively engaged in playing games in new fat markets, nor do they want those players at risk which could deprive their business of a key asset (for making them more money).

A breakaway "New FIFA" is in many ways the best option but the big unknown for me is whether such a reconfiguration of the power structure would see many of the big clubs putting their feet down in relation to international football and effectively ending much of the competitive picture between nations as we know it. I don't disagree that the international calendar could do with some slimming down but where the big clubs would want it and where most fans (and likely players) would prefer things I fear would be poles apart.

The point I'm kind of making is that I think FIFA (or whatever) has to be run like a business and play by the same rules as business as many of the people on the other side of the table (Berlusconi, Agnelli, Moggi, Calderon, Glazer etc etc) are ruthless greedy self-interested bastards.

We do not want a corrupt, dishonest FIFA but FIFA does have to be run more as a business IMO

Thats the thing Anton my desert rat friend,FIFA is trying to portray itself as some whiter than white holy organization thats doing the best for football.

WHEN IT ISNT.

I dont give two fucks if Sepp and all his boys are getting the perks i mentioned earlier.

BUT BE FUCKING TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT AND STOP ACTING LIKE SAINTS WHILE HAVE YOUR COCK STROKED.

Tell everyone what the crack is,tell people to get world cups its about cash and bitches,rather than infrastructure and good will.
THE END.

[Patrick]

No no no, you guys are right, the world cup being handed to those who can show individual voting members just how much they are prepared to pay is exactly how the most important world sporting event should be distributed.

Why bother with the bid process at all, they could save money by just asking for "shrewdness" in a pre envelope declaration

Can I have another sour grape please?

[Dameerto]

Sometimes you're very American, not often, just sometimes.

do you think my assessment of how this gets done is off base? what's so "american" about it, because clearly if i have a myopic "American" sense of this, then i surely cannot understand without some detail to your argument.

indulge me.

cheers

It's just my personal opinion that there are some subtle differences between business in the US and business in Britain - in general I believe there are more ethical UK business people than US (in percentage terms). There will always be exceptions in both countries, but there seems to be a tendancy towards ruthlessness in the US that hasn't quite made it's way over here yet (though it won't be long, we tend to follow you sooner or later in most things). It certainly wasn't meant as a xenophobic insult, but I should have explained it. Having said that, I have a tendancy towards naivety so maybe my world isn't quite the same thing as the real world.

[Patrick]

Perhaps its just the idea that a thoroughly rotten organisation should be be called to account is not a concept that is popular in "real business"?

[Arjan Van Schotte]

Perhaps its just the idea that a thoroughly rotten organisation should be be called to account is not a concept that is popular in "real business"?

spot on patrick. has everyone forgotten that fifa is meant to be the governing body of football and not a fecking "business" anyway?

that's the whole bastard point!

the IOC eventually got (part of) the message!

[Beefymcfc]

Perhaps its just the idea that a thoroughly rotten organisation should be be called to account is not a concept that is popular in "real business"?

spot on patrick. has everyone forgotten that fifa is meant to be the governing body of football and not a fecking "business" anyway?

that's the whole bastard point!

the IOC eventually got (part of) the message!

Yeah but they made 300 million from the last World Cup, don't you know. FIFA should be a governing body, it ain't a business, but it's turned into a power-base that tells ruling powers what to do. They're just a bunch of megalomaniacs.

[bigblue]

Interesting article I ran across that might be vaguely relevant here. Since Thaskin was widely unpopular for his reign as PM in Thailand, how much of the buy out from Sheikh do you think was to have Thaskin take exile in UAE?

"Thaksin, best known in the UK for owning Manchester City football club from 2007 to 2008. Thaksin spends most of his time in Dubai in self-imposed exile."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... NTCMP=SRCH

Article is a bit old, but when talking about muddling of football and ethics at the FIFA level, it's curious to think about whether the sale of CIty involves more factors than initially thought

[Ted Hughes]

Interesting article I ran across that might be vaguely relevant here. Since Thaskin was widely unpopular for his reign as PM in Thailand, how much of the buy out from Sheikh do you think was to have Thaskin take exile in UAE?

"Thaksin, best known in the UK for owning Manchester City football club from 2007 to 2008. Thaksin spends most of his time in Dubai in self-imposed exile."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... NTCMP=SRCH

Article is a bit old, but when talking about muddling of football and ethics at the FIFA level, it's curious to think about whether the sale of CIty involves more factors than initially thought

Before his takeover of City, Thaksin could be found playing golf in the middle East. Now, after he's sold the club, Thaksin can be found playing golf in the middle East. When asked about his money problems, he always said there was no problem, as he has 'friends' who will help him. When the money problems came about, he was immediately bought out.

Any rules say this is not allowed? No.

[john68]

Ant/Doomie,
Though I understand where both of you are coming from, I think that you are failing to look back at the history of football and the culture that many of us on here will well remember. There was a time, not that long ago when football was a sport and not a business. Decisions were made by clubs, national bodies, EuFAS and FIFA for the benefit of the game, the financial implications being noted but considered secondary. It was dominated historically by Britain and mainly by England and it retained much of the old "Spirit of The Game" or "Good of the Game" ethos. Many of us grew up with that and though it may not have made huge profits, the game benefitted.
I think Dameerto's comments to you Doomie are very relevent, in that being American, the ethos of Sports business is something that is embedded in the American culture, whereas it is not and never was a part of the Football culture.
Traditionally, the local club was owned/run by a local benefactor (the Alexander family, Swales, Lee, Wardle) and that local connection was considered important. It is only recently with the onset of huge investement, Sky money ets that outside investment has taken a hold. It has been a huge cultural leap for many fans to understand that decisions now being made by clubs are commercial ones rather than football ones. We at city are lucky but just look at the furore caused at QPR.
The spirit of football was wiped out at FIFA by Havelange and continued by Blatter and the gang. Though you see what you see everyday with your business and American cultures, it is discomforting to many who not so long ago felt they belonged to a sporting ethos that has only recently been taken from them.

[Patrick]

Jeeze John, you long winded centurion!

FIFA is there to do nothing else than have world footballs best interests at heart. It doesn't, it's corrupt from top to bottom.

Now blather who has overseen FIFA become a laughing stock over the last decade remains unopposed in this weeks election, despite having a corruption hearing a few days before!

Even if it were an American company it would have gone bust years ago, if it was a government it would be overthrown, but, it answers only to itself and it's members and theyre doing rather well thank you very much

It is beyond a joke

[Original Dub]

FIFA have suspended Jack Warner and Mohammed Bin Hammam and cleared Blatter of any wrong doing.

Stinks.

[Beefymcfc]

FIFA have suspended Jack Warner and Mohammed Bin Hammam and cleared Blatter of any wrong doing.

Stinks.

Did we think anything other would happen.

[DoomMerchant]

Ant/Doomie,
Though I understand where both of you are coming from, I think that you are failing to look back at the history of football and the culture that many of us on here will well remember. There was a time, not that long ago when football was a sport and not a business. Decisions were made by clubs, national bodies, EuFAS and FIFA for the benefit of the game, the financial implications being noted but considered secondary. It was dominated historically by Britain and mainly by England and it retained much of the old "Spirit of The Game" or "Good of the Game" ethos. Many of us grew up with that and though it may not have made huge profits, the game benefitted.
I think Dameerto's comments to you Doomie are very relevent, in that being American, the ethos of Sports business is something that is embedded in the American culture, whereas it is not and never was a part of the Football culture.
Traditionally, the local club was owned/run by a local benefactor (the Alexander family, Swales, Lee, Wardle) and that local connection was considered important. It is only recently with the onset of huge investement, Sky money ets that outside investment has taken a hold. It has been a huge cultural leap for many fans to understand that decisions now being made by clubs are commercial ones rather than football ones. We at city are lucky but just look at the furore caused at QPR.
The spirit of football was wiped out at FIFA by Havelange and continued by Blatter and the gang. Though you see what you see everyday with your business and American cultures, it is discomforting to many who not so long ago felt they belonged to a sporting ethos that has only recently been taken from them.

you can live in the 19th century all you want, but they still found ways to get business done in that century as well old man. Take the Frog ski instructor with you as well in your Black Cab TIme Machine. Probably room for Beefy too unless he truly is, well, Beefy.

FIFA oversees, like some crew of mafioso dons, international football.

You'd have to admit that if you are a purist about this that the NFL, with their Player's Union, and owners and collective bargaining agreements has this shit nailed compared to the mafia, of which i'm glad there are none near me, which runs international footy.

My point is why don't you fuclin cunts get with the program and get some sack and show your power instead of acting like this group of old toothless fucktards is allowed to have you by the balls? Pay what needs to be paid for, within whatever modicum of social or ethical
improprieties are required, and then kill whomever won't fuclin get on board with this program. Simples. You fucks invented this game, and you let some crew of speds run it for the world while you sit back in the passenger seat and bitch because the bus is going over the cliff. Works if yr Thelma and Louise i guess.

You invented it. Invented. It. If your country loves the football so much why can't someone get FIFA sorted one way or another? Play the game, get the shit you need, find their thumbscrews, fuck the whole lot out of existence and redefine the shit on your terms.

[youtube]WLKbcrC0krQ[/youtube]

[Ted Hughes]

Ant/Doomie,
Though I understand where both of you are coming from, I think that you are failing to look back at the history of football and the culture that many of us on here will well remember. There was a time, not that long ago when football was a sport and not a business. Decisions were made by clubs, national bodies, EuFAS and FIFA for the benefit of the game, the financial implications being noted but considered secondary. It was dominated historically by Britain and mainly by England and it retained much of the old "Spirit of The Game" or "Good of the Game" ethos. Many of us grew up with that and though it may not have made huge profits, the game benefitted.
I think Dameerto's comments to you Doomie are very relevent, in that being American, the ethos of Sports business is something that is embedded in the American culture, whereas it is not and never was a part of the Football culture.
Traditionally, the local club was owned/run by a local benefactor (the Alexander family, Swales, Lee, Wardle) and that local connection was considered important. It is only recently with the onset of huge investement, Sky money ets that outside investment has taken a hold. It has been a huge cultural leap for many fans to understand that decisions now being made by clubs are commercial ones rather than football ones. We at city are lucky but just look at the furore caused at QPR.
The spirit of football was wiped out at FIFA by Havelange and continued by Blatter and the gang. Though you see what you see everyday with your business and American cultures, it is discomforting to many who not so long ago felt they belonged to a sporting ethos that has only recently been taken from them.

you can live in the 19th century all you want, but they still found ways to get business done in that century as well old man. Take the Frog ski instructor with you as well in your Black Cab TIme Machine. Probably room for Beefy too unless he truly is, well, Beefy.

FIFA oversees, like some crew of mafioso dons, international football.

You'd have to admit that if you are a purist about this that the NFL, with their Player's Union, and owners and collective bargaining agreements has this shit nailed compared to the mafia, of which i'm glad there are none near me, which runs international footy.

My point is why don't you fuclin cunts get with the program and get some sack and show your power instead of acting like this group of old toothless fucktards is allowed to have you by the balls? Pay what needs to be paid for, within whatever modicum of social or ethical
improprieties are required, and then kill whomever won't fuclin get on board with this program. Simples. You fucks invented this game, and you let some crew of speds run it for the world while you sit back in the passenger seat and bitch because the bus is going over the cliff. Works if yr Thelma and Louise i guess.

You invented it. Invented. It. If your country loves the football so much why can't someone get FIFA sorted one way or another? Play the game, get the shit you need, find their thumbscrews, fuck the whole lot out of existence and redefine the shit on your terms.

[youtube]WLKbcrC0krQ[/youtube]

I would rather pay to have Sepp Blatter killed, than pay him.

[DoomMerchant]

Ant/Doomie,
Though I understand where both of you are coming from, I think that you are failing to look back at the history of football and the culture that many of us on here will well remember. There was a time, not that long ago when football was a sport and not a business. Decisions were made by clubs, national bodies, EuFAS and FIFA for the benefit of the game, the financial implications being noted but considered secondary. It was dominated historically by Britain and mainly by England and it retained much of the old "Spirit of The Game" or "Good of the Game" ethos. Many of us grew up with that and though it may not have made huge profits, the game benefitted.
I think Dameerto's comments to you Doomie are very relevent, in that being American, the ethos of Sports business is something that is embedded in the American culture, whereas it is not and never was a part of the Football culture.
Traditionally, the local club was owned/run by a local benefactor (the Alexander family, Swales, Lee, Wardle) and that local connection was considered important. It is only recently with the onset of huge investement, Sky money ets that outside investment has taken a hold. It has been a huge cultural leap for many fans to understand that decisions now being made by clubs are commercial ones rather than football ones. We at city are lucky but just look at the furore caused at QPR.
The spirit of football was wiped out at FIFA by Havelange and continued by Blatter and the gang. Though you see what you see everyday with your business and American cultures, it is discomforting to many who not so long ago felt they belonged to a sporting ethos that has only recently been taken from them.

you can live in the 19th century all you want, but they still found ways to get business done in that century as well old man. Take the Frog ski instructor with you as well in your Black Cab TIme Machine. Probably room for Beefy too unless he truly is, well, Beefy.

FIFA oversees, like some crew of mafioso dons, international football.

You'd have to admit that if you are a purist about this that the NFL, with their Player's Union, and owners and collective bargaining agreements has this shit nailed compared to the mafia, of which i'm glad there are none near me, which runs international footy.

My point is why don't you fuclin cunts get with the program and get some sack and show your power instead of acting like this group of old toothless fucktards is allowed to have you by the balls? Pay what needs to be paid for, within whatever modicum of social or ethical
improprieties are required, and then kill whomever won't fuclin get on board with this program. Simples. You fucks invented this game, and you let some crew of speds run it for the world while you sit back in the passenger seat and bitch because the bus is going over the cliff. Works if yr Thelma and Louise i guess.

You invented it. Invented. It. If your country loves the football so much why can't someone get FIFA sorted one way or another? Play the game, get the shit you need, find their thumbscrews, fuck the whole lot out of existence and redefine the shit on your terms.

[youtube]WLKbcrC0krQ[/youtube]

I would rather pay to have Sepp Blatter killed, than pay him.

haha...that's fine...i'm not opposed to that opinion i'm just saying if that's what it takes some mad fucler get it done!

that is all.

[john68]

Doomie,
Tell me...which part of the 1970s was it that was in the 19th Century? For a jibe to be effective, it should have some factual basis or be funny...that was neither. Also...I think I quite plainly stated that "financial implications were noted" and I never denied that football has always had a business aspect, ever since football became a pro sport.
It may be your cultural upbringing in the States where money is king in sport or it may be that you came late into English football after the changes of emphasis in FIFA, UeFA and the Prem but instead of demeaning my point, it may have been useful for you to have looked at the anthropological and historical aspects of the game to widen your narrower view.
Personally, i couldn't give a flying fuck whether England or the states got the World Cup but I sure as fuck think that once we go down the road of filling the trough for the FIFA pigs to feed at, we then simply join them and the game is lost. Our failure was that knowing the levels of corruption, we went ahead and actually put a bid in.
Unlike you, I don't think that either of our nations have sufficient influence or power to change anything, so showing our balls in public would merely make us look like perverts.

Before your very eyes, football has been made to diappear into the bank accounts of the likes of Havelange, and present menbers of the FIFA set up. Yet you seem to be of the opinion of "That's the way it works...pay the man...or have him put to sleep"...Erm!!! Maybe, just maybe, there may be an alternative.
...and as for history being bunk mate....it worked perfectly well in the past...it wasn't broken...why fix it?

[DoomMerchant]

Doomie,
Tell me...which part of the 1970s was it that was in the 19th Century? For a jibe to be effective, it should have some factual basis or be funny...that was neither. Also...I think I quite plainly stated that "financial implications were noted" and I never denied that football has always had a business aspect, ever since football became a pro sport.
It may be your cultural upbringing in the States where money is king in sport or it may be that you came late into English football after the changes of emphasis in FIFA, UeFA and the Prem but instead of demeaning my point, it may have been useful for you to have looked at the anthropological and historical aspects of the game to widen your narrower view.
Personally, i couldn't give a flying fuck whether England or the states got the World Cup but I sure as fuck think that once we go down the road of filling the trough for the FIFA pigs to feed at, we then simply join them and the game is lost. Our failure was that knowing the levels of corruption, we went ahead and actually put a bid in.
Unlike you, I don't think that either of our nations have sufficient influence or power to change anything, so showing our balls in public would merely make us look like perverts.

Before your very eyes, football has been made to diappear into the bank accounts of the likes of Havelange, and present menbers of the FIFA set up. Yet you seem to be of the opinion of "That's the way it works...pay the man...or have him put to sleep"...Erm!!! Maybe, just maybe, there may be an alternative.
...and as for history being bunk mate....it worked perfectly well in the past...it wasn't broken...why fix it?

i'm not sure if you are really this naive and idealistic in your golden years or if yr just upset that your cab isn't really a time machine. Which?

cheers

p.s. the fact that you don't think our nations have the influence of the power to change things is maybe indicative of the shift in world money, but i think we've still got a couple decades of promise ahead if we're lucky before the whole western empire shits the bed and all our women are wearing hijabs and we're stoning each other for petty crimes. Ahem.

cheers