Franchising the Premier League?

[bluej]

We'll all be American soon anyway. Might as well fall in line.

More likely to all be Chinese to be honest.

Can't see this idea taking off at all, and think the Premier League have come out and rubbished it today.

[DoomMerchant]

the end of relegation can never happen in English football. As an American, i can tell you that this is such an absolutely powerful tool in this league, and the entire system. If baseball or basketball had such a thing in America those sports would benefit greatly from it. The NFL not so much because in essence our University teams are basically the "lower leagues" as twisted as that is...

Relegation and Promotion are the bedrock of a strong, entertaining system and i cannot imagine any owner who is a true fan embracing any change.

Is it the Venky's guys, maybe and a journo stirring up a shitpot from one fucked up perspective? most likely i'd say.

cheers

Dommie, you can't even compare the two. The NBA is a hard comparison to make, but if you look at the NHL or MLB the "lower" leagues are teams that are either owned by the teams at the top level or totally populated by players controlled by one or two teams (that would be the NHL) so it would be like allowing the reserves to promote, so it is structurally impossible in those sports. The are essentially the reserves and the EDS we have at City.

Obvioulsy a reserve side would not be in contention to promote, so even if the Chicago Cubs team in the highest level of the minors were in position to say promote and the Cubs were going to drop, they could either promote their own players to assure they are not replaced by their own team. Not only that.. I do not think Des Moines, Iowa would be financially rewarding to the MLB franchise, that system could never work here. And again, impossible to fathom.

Same thing goes even with MLS. MLS is closed to anything but expansion. Could you imagine if the current last place team in MLS the New England Revolution were to be relegated and replaced by the 2nd best team in the NASL (second tier in USA) which was the Puerto Rica Islanders? The Revolution average 13000 per game (lower quarter of MSL) but the Islanders average about 5000 per game. The population of Great Boston is larger than all of the Puerto Rican island. Plus the money is not there to expand the stadium, nor would there be that prize money.

I do agree the Premier League and all of English Football would be forever broken if this were actually true. As a matter of fact, I see no other sport that can realistically do it, and I see no way it could happen in any sport in the USA.

i know how baseball's minor league system works dude...but what baseball needs is some system to make teams relevant and give a spark.

Look, there are loads of ballparks all over the US and A. Someone, if they wanted, could fix baseball and find a way to introduce the concept of relegation.

And, no, don't tell me the Brewers having one good season out of 30 is parity or reasonable. or the Rangers either. Baseball as a sport has been cooked since the Roids scandals, and would have been done before that if they didn't realize how much they needed steroids to fix it.

[Florida Blue]

the end of relegation can never happen in English football. As an American, i can tell you that this is such an absolutely powerful tool in this league, and the entire system. If baseball or basketball had such a thing in America those sports would benefit greatly from it. The NFL not so much because in essence our University teams are basically the "lower leagues" as twisted as that is...

Relegation and Promotion are the bedrock of a strong, entertaining system and i cannot imagine any owner who is a true fan embracing any change.

Is it the Venky's guys, maybe and a journo stirring up a shitpot from one fucked up perspective? most likely i'd say.

cheers

Dommie, you can't even compare the two. The NBA is a hard comparison to make, but if you look at the NHL or MLB the "lower" leagues are teams that are either owned by the teams at the top level or totally populated by players controlled by one or two teams (that would be the NHL) so it would be like allowing the reserves to promote, so it is structurally impossible in those sports. The are essentially the reserves and the EDS we have at City.

Obvioulsy a reserve side would not be in contention to promote, so even if the Chicago Cubs team in the highest level of the minors were in position to say promote and the Cubs were going to drop, they could either promote their own players to assure they are not replaced by their own team. Not only that.. I do not think Des Moines, Iowa would be financially rewarding to the MLB franchise, that system could never work here. And again, impossible to fathom.

Same thing goes even with MLS. MLS is closed to anything but expansion. Could you imagine if the current last place team in MLS the New England Revolution were to be relegated and replaced by the 2nd best team in the NASL (second tier in USA) which was the Puerto Rica Islanders? The Revolution average 13000 per game (lower quarter of MSL) but the Islanders average about 5000 per game. The population of Great Boston is larger than all of the Puerto Rican island. Plus the money is not there to expand the stadium, nor would there be that prize money.

I do agree the Premier League and all of English Football would be forever broken if this were actually true. As a matter of fact, I see no other sport that can realistically do it, and I see no way it could happen in any sport in the USA.

i know how baseball's minor league system works dude...but what baseball needs is some system to make teams relevant and give a spark.

Look, there are loads of ballparks all over the US and A. Someone, if they wanted, could fix baseball and find a way to introduce the concept of relegation.

And, no, don't tell me the Brewers having one good season out of 30 is parity or reasonable. or the Rangers either. Baseball as a sport has been cooked since the Roids scandals, and would have been done before that if they didn't realize how much they needed steroids to fix it.

1. You would have to dissolve the minor league structure
2. Teams would have to cap the number of players they hold
3. Revenue sharing wouldn't work if a team from Pawtucket or Norfolk was in the majors.

[DoomMerchant]

the end of relegation can never happen in English football. As an American, i can tell you that this is such an absolutely powerful tool in this league, and the entire system. If baseball or basketball had such a thing in America those sports would benefit greatly from it. The NFL not so much because in essence our University teams are basically the "lower leagues" as twisted as that is...

Relegation and Promotion are the bedrock of a strong, entertaining system and i cannot imagine any owner who is a true fan embracing any change.

Is it the Venky's guys, maybe and a journo stirring up a shitpot from one fucked up perspective? most likely i'd say.

cheers

Dommie, you can't even compare the two. The NBA is a hard comparison to make, but if you look at the NHL or MLB the "lower" leagues are teams that are either owned by the teams at the top level or totally populated by players controlled by one or two teams (that would be the NHL) so it would be like allowing the reserves to promote, so it is structurally impossible in those sports. The are essentially the reserves and the EDS we have at City.

Obvioulsy a reserve side would not be in contention to promote, so even if the Chicago Cubs team in the highest level of the minors were in position to say promote and the Cubs were going to drop, they could either promote their own players to assure they are not replaced by their own team. Not only that.. I do not think Des Moines, Iowa would be financially rewarding to the MLB franchise, that system could never work here. And again, impossible to fathom.

Same thing goes even with MLS. MLS is closed to anything but expansion. Could you imagine if the current last place team in MLS the New England Revolution were to be relegated and replaced by the 2nd best team in the NASL (second tier in USA) which was the Puerto Rica Islanders? The Revolution average 13000 per game (lower quarter of MSL) but the Islanders average about 5000 per game. The population of Great Boston is larger than all of the Puerto Rican island. Plus the money is not there to expand the stadium, nor would there be that prize money.

I do agree the Premier League and all of English Football would be forever broken if this were actually true. As a matter of fact, I see no other sport that can realistically do it, and I see no way it could happen in any sport in the USA.

i know how baseball's minor league system works dude...but what baseball needs is some system to make teams relevant and give a spark.

Look, there are loads of ballparks all over the US and A. Someone, if they wanted, could fix baseball and find a way to introduce the concept of relegation.

And, no, don't tell me the Brewers having one good season out of 30 is parity or reasonable. or the Rangers either. Baseball as a sport has been cooked since the Roids scandals, and would have been done before that if they didn't realize how much they needed steroids to fix it.

1. You would have to dissolve the minor league structure
2. Teams would have to cap the number of players they hold
3. Revenue sharing wouldn't work if a team from Pawtucket or Norfolk was in the majors.

i wonder if any of our European friends give a shit about baseball? ;)

If a team in Pawtucket or Norfolk was in the bigs we'd all love to see them beat the Yankees, wouldn't we? Even if it meant my Pirates played in their beautiful ballpark but in a lower league.

nothing wrong with making the minors more like the academies...no need to dissolve the minors really imho.

[Alioune DVToure]

the end of relegation can never happen in English football. As an American, i can tell you that this is such an absolutely powerful tool in this league, and the entire system. If baseball or basketball had such a thing in America those sports would benefit greatly from it. The NFL not so much because in essence our University teams are basically the "lower leagues" as twisted as that is...

Relegation and Promotion are the bedrock of a strong, entertaining system and i cannot imagine any owner who is a true fan embracing any change.

Is it the Venky's guys, maybe and a journo stirring up a shitpot from one fucked up perspective? most likely i'd say.

cheers

Dommie, you can't even compare the two. The NBA is a hard comparison to make, but if you look at the NHL or MLB the "lower" leagues are teams that are either owned by the teams at the top level or totally populated by players controlled by one or two teams (that would be the NHL) so it would be like allowing the reserves to promote, so it is structurally impossible in those sports. The are essentially the reserves and the EDS we have at City.

Obvioulsy a reserve side would not be in contention to promote, so even if the Chicago Cubs team in the highest level of the minors were in position to say promote and the Cubs were going to drop, they could either promote their own players to assure they are not replaced by their own team. Not only that.. I do not think Des Moines, Iowa would be financially rewarding to the MLB franchise, that system could never work here. And again, impossible to fathom.

Same thing goes even with MLS. MLS is closed to anything but expansion. Could you imagine if the current last place team in MLS the New England Revolution were to be relegated and replaced by the 2nd best team in the NASL (second tier in USA) which was the Puerto Rica Islanders? The Revolution average 13000 per game (lower quarter of MSL) but the Islanders average about 5000 per game. The population of Great Boston is larger than all of the Puerto Rican island. Plus the money is not there to expand the stadium, nor would there be that prize money.

I do agree the Premier League and all of English Football would be forever broken if this were actually true. As a matter of fact, I see no other sport that can realistically do it, and I see no way it could happen in any sport in the USA.

i know how baseball's minor league system works dude...but what baseball needs is some system to make teams relevant and give a spark.

Look, there are loads of ballparks all over the US and A. Someone, if they wanted, could fix baseball and find a way to introduce the concept of relegation.

And, no, don't tell me the Brewers having one good season out of 30 is parity or reasonable. or the Rangers either. Baseball as a sport has been cooked since the Roids scandals, and would have been done before that if they didn't realize how much they needed steroids to fix it.

1. You would have to dissolve the minor league structure
2. Teams would have to cap the number of players they hold
3. Revenue sharing wouldn't work if a team from Pawtucket or Norfolk was in the majors.

[highlight]i wonder if any of our European friends give a shit about baseball? ;)[/highlight]

If a team in Pawtucket or Norfolk was in the bigs we'd all love to see them beat the Yankees, wouldn't we? Even if it meant my Pirates played in their beautiful ballpark but in a lower league.

nothing wrong with making the minors more like the academies...no need to dissolve the minors really imho.

I'd like to go on record as saying that I don't. I went to watch the Phillies once. It was top. Really hot evening and I was pissed out of my tree. Didn't have a clue what was happening on the field.

[ronk]

Bevan fears that if more clubs are sold to foreigner investors they may.... INSERT SCARE STORY

This is just trying to scare people off. Franchising wouldn't work because there's too risk involved for individuals clubs to be willing.

The franchise system makes more sense when you look at how leagues formed, died and merged in America. The NFL structure is good at minimising transcontinental travel while having a 32 team league in a sport where 16 games make up the regular season and they all have a chance of winning it.

[phips]

this is as dumb of an idea as Liverpool wanting to negotiate their own TV rights etc. instead of equal sharing, like the Spanish model...which would only kill the EPL just like what has happened to La Liga.

Its fine the way it is. All of it...mostly.

[john@staustell]

Fuckin ludicrous idea by American - I understand - not 'foreign', owners.

So the bottom 12 clubs have nothing to play for or worry about after Xmas? That should really create excitement! Lower crowds and the beginning of the end.

[Alioune DVToure]

Fuckin ludicrous idea by [highlight]American - I understand[/highlight] - not 'foreign', owners.

So the bottom 12 clubs have nothing to play for or worry about after Xmas? That should really create excitement! Lower crowds and the beginning of the end.

How do you?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I have to quote one of the great philosophers, Plato, here. "Fuck that shit".

[colonel_muck]

soon as i saw baseball get mentioned i stopped reading. so for a dingbat, how would this work? the 2o teams we have now are in it til the end of time?

[Kladze]

soon as i saw baseball get mentioned i stopped reading. so for a dingbat, how would this work? the 2o teams we have now are in it til the end of time?

yes

[steveo_88]

i wonder if any of our European friends give a shit about baseball? ;)

[highlight]nothing wrong with making the minors more like the academies...no need to dissolve the minors really imho[/highlight].

I love baseball and hockey. Rangers (NHL) since Dan Cloutier tried to take on the entire fishticks bench and Yankees properly since this year (watched baseball for a good few years but never followed a team until now, thought I'd stick with New York-Eastern Time Zone and Tony Lazzeri sold it).

Never had so much fun in baseball when Bin Dippers 3 screwed up their start to the season. Hand bags in the dug out every single game. Manny's RETIREMENT was interesting to say the least! Can't wait to see where Francona ends up?

NHL-Hartford would have your balls for saying something like that. They're still pissed Winnipeg got back in before them and Quebec are banging on the door to get the Nordiques back. Although Conneticut Whale(Hartford Wolf Pack) are the NY Rangers farm team they'd prefer to be in the NHL on their own.

[JamieMCFC]

Beware any change to a franchise system. Fans are ignored and history doesn't mean diddly squat in a franchise system. I'll tell you something now the SCUM would do everything in their power to get rid of us and claim Manchester as their own, we are always outnumbered as fans at every level of power!

Atlanta (it's not exactly a small City, they weren't the least competitive or the one with no fans) had an NHL Ice Hockey team last season and a half decent one at that, the club is now playing in Winnipeg as the Jets!

In the MLB, NHL there are only a handful of teams that could never be moved:
NHL: The original six.
MLB: Boston Red Sox, Da Bronx Bombers, Chicago Cubs (I still don't understand why people like the Cubs so much, is it because most of the non white Chicago population support the Sox?). Everyone else is up for grabs; there are rumblings in Long Island for the Mets; Los Angeles for the Dodgers and always ALWAYS Oakland (for every franchise Oakland has, remember Los Angeles and Las Vegas really want an NFL team) for the A's.

I've heard whispers the NEW YORK KNICKS could be on their way (That's like moving us to London and if we don't like it tough because fans don't have a say!)!

The Cubs popularity can be attributed to one thing and that's WGN. In the 80's The Cubs were the only team that had a game on nationally everyday. Not sure what makes you think most of the non white Chicago population are Sox fans. As a non white that grew up in the Chicago area as a kid I can assure you there are more non whites that are Cubs fans. Also there is no way the Knicks are moving unless they are sold by Madison Square Garden Inc. You might be getting them mixed up with the Nets who have been talking about moving to Brooklyn for years.

[Kladze]

Beware any change to a franchise system. Fans are ignored and history doesn't mean diddly squat in a franchise system. I'll tell you something now the SCUM would do everything in their power to get rid of us and claim Manchester as their own, we are always outnumbered as fans at every level of power!

Atlanta (it's not exactly a small City, they weren't the least competitive or the one with no fans) had an NHL Ice Hockey team last season and a half decent one at that, the club is now playing in Winnipeg as the Jets!

In the MLB, NHL there are only a handful of teams that could never be moved:
NHL: The original six.
MLB: Boston Red Sox, Da Bronx Bombers, Chicago Cubs (I still don't understand why people like the Cubs so much, is it because most of the non white Chicago population support the Sox?). Everyone else is up for grabs; there are rumblings in Long Island for the Mets; Los Angeles for the Dodgers and always ALWAYS Oakland (for every franchise Oakland has, remember Los Angeles and Las Vegas really want an NFL team) for the A's.

I've heard whispers the NEW YORK KNICKS could be on their way (That's like moving us to London and if we don't like it tough because fans don't have a say!)!

The Cubs popularity can be attributed to one thing and that's WGN. In the 80's The Cubs were the only team that had a game on nationally everyday. Not sure what makes you think most of the non white Chicago population are Sox fans. As a non white that grew up in the Chicago area as a kid I can assure you there are more non whites that are Cubs fans. Also there is no way the Knicks are moving unless they are sold by Madison Square Garden Inc. You might be getting them mixed up with the Nets who have been talking about moving to Brooklyn for years.

WTF ?

Stop with the baseball talk already !!


;-)

[BlueinBosnia]

As a non white that grew up in the Chicago area as a kid.

Sorry if this sounds a bit racist/uneducated, but that really, really surprises me. I guess it's the TV image we get of 'soccer moms' etc, but I thought that football was only really popular with white people (I include Hispanics in that, not sure how the US defines them).

How popular is football (soccer) amongst ethnic minorities in the states would you say?

[Alioune DVToure]

As a non white that grew up in the Chicago area as a kid.

Sorry if this sounds a bit racist/uneducated, but that really, really surprises me. I guess it's the TV image we get of 'soccer moms' etc, but I thought that football was only really popular with white people (I include Hispanics in that, not sure how the US defines them).

How popular is football (soccer) amongst ethnic minorities in the states would you say?

I spend a lot of time in a Philly suburb and, when I'm there, I have a kickabout (Yanks: pick-up game) with all the guys in the town every Sunday morning. The ages go from 18-55 and the participants number black guys, white guys, Hispanic guys, Koreans and a handful of fellas from Eastern Europe (Poland/Ukraine) and the Balkans.

By virtue of where it is (we play on the grounds of a liberal arts college), most of those playing are white and middle class. Nevertheless, most of those who play turn up in replica [strike]shirts[/strike] jerseys and follow the game. From my experience, I'd say that football is a minority sport in general in the States, but no single ethnic/age group predominates within this minority. The game is particularly popular among MEXICANS, not Hispanics per se (Dominicans, Cubans and puertorriqueños follow baseball).

[Chinners]

The term 'ethnic minorities' always makes me chuckle when it's used in reference to black/asian people.