Hillsborough Report

[Chinners]

Thats the point Slim. Most of the 'released' evidence blamed the fans via the media and doctored police statements, hence them being angry and wanting justice which they might well get in parts now. Sure there are always a couple of knobs at games but the insinuation that the majority caused this is/was risible stuff. Fair play to the Scoucers for not letting it lie is my view, I'd be the same if I knew someone had died and the blame being placed on someone else was bollox.

police blame fans.
fans blame police.

Except the police at the game didn't blame the fans. The praising bits in their reports were deleted ... it was Thatcher and the top brass in the Yorkshire Police force that did the blaming

[Yffi_88]

... What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster...

...It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors...

They have every right to feel victimised.

I am unsure where you're going with that.

Yffi, I am by no means saying the entire situation was the fault of the Liverpool fans, it took a series of mistakes to cause the disaster, any one of which had it been avoided could have had a different outcome. But they are in part responsible for what happened and there is no escaping that fact.

One of the darkest days in football I can remember.

I understand what you were saying mate - I lived in Runcorn for most of my life and there's a lot of LFC fans here so i know what a sensitive issue it is with them, and all merserysiders in fairness.

I wasn't even 1 at the time but one of my best friend from school's dad was killed there. I can't imagine how bad that day was.

I also can't imagine the feeling of walking into a shop and seeing those headlines in the Sun. Despicable.

[Dameerto]

... What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster...

...It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors...

They have every right to feel victimised.

I am unsure where you're going with that.

Yffi, I am by no means saying the entire situation was the fault of the Liverpool fans, it took a series of mistakes to cause the disaster, any one of which had it been avoided could have had a different outcome. But they are in part responsible for what happened and there is no escaping that fact.

One of the darkest days in football I can remember.

Sorry I wasn't very clear - I was meaning you reached the conclusion it was full of vague shite (which I agree with), but highlighted that you didn't include the blame as vague shite when it should have been (in my opinion). I then somewhat confusingly went on to answer a bit of your post that I didn't quote. (meaning they have every right to feel others are out to blame them unfairly)

[Yffi_88]

For those at work/on computer.

BBC website has full video and text commentary on it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19570810

[Slim]

... What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster...

...It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors...

They have every right to feel victimised.

I am unsure where you're going with that.

Yffi, I am by no means saying the entire situation was the fault of the Liverpool fans, it took a series of mistakes to cause the disaster, any one of which had it been avoided could have had a different outcome. But they are in part responsible for what happened and there is no escaping that fact.

One of the darkest days in football I can remember.

Sorry I wasn't very clear - I was meaning you reached the conclusion it was full of vague shite (which I agree with), but highlighted that you didn't include the blame as vague shite when it should have been (in my opinion). I then somewhat confusingly went on to answer a bit of your post that I didn't quote. (meaning they have every right to feel others are out to blame them unfairly)

Well they had a section on tickets and a section on alcohol, but it never stated, "hey Liverpool fans were drunk and that caused it", I still have the report on my PC...here is an exert.

250. There can be no doubt that excessive drinking by fans significantly aggravates problems of crowd
control. Because alcohol tends to remove inhibitions and self control, those who have drunk too much may
become aggressive and even violent especially when provoked. Short of this, however, alcohol can make fans
resistant to sensible and reasonable instructions, more impatient and less considerate of others. All of this
increases the problems for police and stewards in managing large numbers which is difficult enough even
with co-operation.

So while I say alluded, I mean more by the presence of the sections than actually saying anything relevant in regards to the Liverpool fans. That whole section continued with some Scottish Act of 1980 banning alcohol sales in grounds, I mean it lacked ANY focus. I hope Taylor got a lot of money for this, because it's this sort of bullshit report that usually fetches the highest fees.

[Chinners]

Gary Lineker tweets: Remember being in Barcelona watching the tragedy unfold. 23 years on we learn the truth. 23 YEARS!! A national disgrace!

Amen to that Jugears ...

The scale is unbelievable. 164 police statement doctored, and 116 of those had negative criticisms taken out. Blood tests taken from the dead and survivors without permission, and if blood alcohol levels found to be zero, then police records trawled to find any evidence of criminality, just to cover their own arses. Cents

[Alex Sapphire]

... What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster...

...It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors...

They have every right to feel victimised.

I am unsure where you're going with that.

Yffi, I am by no means saying the entire situation was the fault of the Liverpool fans, it took a series of mistakes to cause the disaster, any one of which had it been avoided could have had a different outcome. But they are in part responsible for what happened and there is no escaping that fact.

One of the darkest days in football I can remember.

that's exactlly the attitude that cameron is distancing himself and government from as the cause of unfair hurt caused to victims over 23 years. You really need to read today's info, not the report you've had on your laptop for donkies years

"The evidence shows "conclusively" that Liverpool fans "neither caused nor contributed to the deaths" and shows the extent to which attempts, endorsed by the South Yorkshire chief constable Peter Wright, were made to smear them."

[Yffi_88]

A great point just made as to with the culture of whistle-blowing, expose stories etc, that no major media outlet tackled it in the way we saw the expenses scandals etc and in fact the Sun just made it a whole lot worse. Probably shows News Int's massive power in such matters.

Independent panel about to speak. This will be interesting.

[Burt]

how come this kind of thing never happened at hillsbrough the thousands of times football matches were played there before this incident?

it very nearly did they just ignored the warning signs.
stupid fucking question mind

We can all see what's being inferred with that question grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

The reason it didn't happen is because it was an accident waiting to happen. The stand did not have an upto date health & safety certificate. How da fucl did the FA allow them to hold games without having a valid certificate?! It was only a matter of time before a mess like that was going to occur. There are a lot of top brass cunts that should be made liable to scrutiny for this whole disaster.

[Alex Sapphire]

Contents of Cameron's Statement:

FAILURE OF THE AUTHORITIES

First, there is new evidence about how the authorities failed.

There is a trail of new documents which show the extent to which the safety of the crowd at Hillsborough was "compromised at every level".

The ground failed to meet minimum standards and the "deficiencies were well known".

The turnstiles were inadequate.

The ground capacity had been significantly over-calculated.

The crush barriers failed to meet safety standards.

There had been a crush at exactly the same match the year before.

And today's report shows clearly that lessons had not been learnt.

The report backs up again the key finding of the Taylor Report on police failure.

But it goes further by revealing for the first time the shortcomings of the ambulance and emergency services response.

The major incident plan was not fully implemented.

Rescue attempts were held back by failures of leadership and co-ordination.

And, significantly, new documents today show there was a delay from the emergency services when people were being crushed and killed.

ATTEMPT TO BLAME THE FANS

Second, the families have long believed that some of the authorities attempted to create a completely unjust account of events that sought to blame the fans for what happened.

Mr Speaker, the families were right.

The evidence in today's report includes briefings to the media, and attempts by the Police to change the record of events.

On the media. Several newspapers reported false allegations that fans were drunk and violent and stole from the dead.

The Sun's report sensationalised these allegations under a banner headline "The Truth."

This was clearly wrong and caused huge offence, distress and hurt.

News International has co-operated with the Panel and, for the first time, today's report reveals that the source for these despicable untruths was a Sheffield news agency reporting conversations with South Yorkshire Police and Irvine Patnick, the then MP for Sheffield Hallam.

The Report finds that this was part of police efforts - and I quote - "to develop and publicise a version of events that focused on - allegations of drunkenness, ticketlessness and violence."

In terms of changing the record of events, we already know that police reports were significantly altered but the full extent was not drawn to Lord Justice Taylor's attention.

Today's Report finds that 164 statements were significantly amended - and 116 explicitly removed negative comments about the policing operation - including its lack of leadership.

The report also makes important findings about particular actions taken by the police and coroner while investigating the deaths.

There is new evidence which shows that police officers carried out police national computer checks on those who had died in an attempt - and I quote from the report - "to impugn the reputations of the deceased".

The Coroner took blood alcohol levels from all of the deceased including children.

The Panel finds no rationale whatsoever for what it regards as an "exceptional" decision.

The report states clearly that the attempt of the inquest to draw a link between blood alcohol and late arrival was "fundamentally flawed".

And that alcohol consumption was "unremarkable and not exceptional for a social or leisure occasion".

Mr Speaker, over all these years questions have been raised about the role of the government - including whether it did enough to uncover the truth.

It is certainly true that some of the language in the government papers published today was insensitive.

But having been through every document - and every government document including Cabinet Minutes will be published - the Panel found no evidence of any government trying to conceal the truth.

At the time of the Taylor Report the then Prime Minister was briefed by her private secretary that the defensive and - I quote - "close to deceitful" behaviour of senior South Yorkshire officers was "depressingly familiar."

And it is clear that the then government thought it right that the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire should resign.

But as the Rt Hon Member for Leigh has rightly highlighted, governments then and since have simply not done enough to challenge publicly the unjust and untrue narrative that sought to blame the fans.

ORIGINAL CORONER'S INQUEST

Third, and perhaps most significantly of all, the Bishop of Liverpool's report presents new evidence which casts significant doubt over the adequacy of the original Inquest.

The Coroner - on the advice of pathologists - believed that victims suffered traumatic asphyxia leading to unconsciousness within seconds and death within a few minutes.

As a result he asserted that beyond 3.15pm there were no actions that could have changed the fate of the victims and he limited the scope of the Inquest accordingly.

But by analysing post mortem reports the Panel have found that 28 did not have obstruction of blood circulation and 31 had evidence of heart and lungs continuing to function after the crush.

This means that individuals in those groups could have had potentially reversible asphyxia beyond 3.15pm in contrast to the findings of the Coroner and a subsequent Judicial Review.

And the Panel states clearly that "it is highly likely that what happened to those individuals after 3.15pm was significant" in determining whether they died.

THE RESPONSE

Mr Speaker, the conclusions of this report will be harrowing for many of the families affected.

Anyone who has lost a child knows the pain never leaves you.

But to read a report years afterwards that says - and I quote, "a swifter, more appropriate, better focused and properly equipped response had the potential to save more lives", can only add to the pain

It is for the Attorney General to decide whether to apply to the High Court to quash the original inquest and seek a new one.

In this capacity he acts independently of government. And he will need to examine the evidence himself.

But it is clear to me that the new evidence in today's report raises vital questions which must be examined.

And the Attorney General has assured me that he will examine this new evidence immediately and reach a decision as fast as possible.

But ultimately it is for the High Court to decide.

It is also right that the House should have an opportunity to debate the issues raised in this report fully.

My Rt Hon Friend the Home Secretary will be taking forward a debate in Government time. And this will happen when the House returns in October.

[Yffi_88]

"Evidence 41 of the 96 had "potential to survive" after the 3:15 cut off."

[Yffi_88]

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/do ... 1/0581.pdf

Link to the full documentation.

[Alex Sapphire]

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1213/hc05/0581/0581.pdf

Link to the full documentation.

and here

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/index.html

[Chinners]

"Evidence 41 of the 96 had "potential to survive" after the 3:15 cut off."

... and that ladies and gentlemen is the saddest, most disgusting fact on this whole sorry episode.

[london blue 2]

Fucking hell! I have to admit I’m pretty ignorant to the whole Hillsborough thing but that information is pretty damning!

I disagree that Cameron has nothing to apologise for, as the main representative of the Government he should be the one to apologise on mistakes made by his predecessors.

Shocking news.

[Yffi_88]

Fucking hell! I have to admit I’m pretty ignorant to the whole Hillsborough thing but that information is pretty damning!

I disagree that Cameron has nothing to apologise for, as the main representative of the Government he should be the one to apologise on mistakes made by his predecessors.

Shocking news.

Its not that he doesn't have anything to apologise for, it's just that he shouldn't be the one doing it. 23 years on. Same with Milliband.

Thought he handled it brilliantly today though.

[Goaters 103]

The sheer scale of the cover-up is and the way witness statements, many of them from serving Police officers, were doctored or changed is absolutely stomach turning.

That it has taken 23 years for what really happended in clear black and white brings shame on this country.

[Chinners]

Seems that even the statements of the Ambulance crews were 'doctered' as well .....

[Alex Sapphire]

Seems that even the statements of the Ambulance crews were 'doctered' as well .....

"a letter from an anonymous complainant noted that ‘ambulance personnel are being interviewed individually by a panel of senior officers’.The complaint alleged that ambulance staff were being ‘intimidated’ and were ‘withholding information in case of reprisals’ "

"Of the SYMAS statements disclosed to the Panel, 49 had alterations to ‘final’ statements, 33 of which related solely to correction or clarification. The remaining 16 had more substantial deletions or details added, five of which were more significant."

[JB]

http://www.labour.org.uk/ed-milibands-r ... 2012-09-12


Ed Miliband MP, Leader of the Opposition, said in the House of Commons today:

Mr Speaker,

Can I thank the Prime Minister for his statement.

I join him in remembering the 96 people who died at Hillsborough, the hundreds more who were injured and all of their families and friends.

I think today we also remember all who had to suffer the trauma of being there that day.

Let me state right up front, Mr Speaker, an uncomfortable truth for us all:

It shames us as a country that it has taken 23 years to get to the truth about what happened at Hillsborough.

The Prime Minister was right today to offer an unreserved official apology, but all governments during this period bear their share of responsibility for the failure to get to the truth.

So we on this side also apologise to the families that we didn’t do enough to help.

And what brings us here today, as the Prime Minister has said, is not just the tragedy of Hillsborough.

It is that the victims of this tragedy and the people of Liverpool were systematically smeared and portrayed as its perpetrators.

Imagine for a moment any of us waving a loved one off as they go to a football match.

And then the impossible grief of your loved one not returning.

And then imagine being unable to grieve in peace but facing two decades of torment.

A cloud of suspicion, innuendo and downright lies spread about the person you loved.

Lies about rushing the gate, lies about ticketless fans, lies about the drunkenness of the victims.

Mr Speaker, this is what the Hillsborough families have had to endure from day one of this tragedy.

And while they spoke the truth to power whenever they could, the powerful did not hear.

Nothing can compensate for what the families have suffered, but I pay tribute to all of the victims' families for their 23 year campaign for the truth.

Without the efforts of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, the Hillsborough Justice Campaign, and Hope for Hillsborough, the truth would have remained hidden.

And we would not be here today.

And I also commend the work of the Liverpool Echo who kept the campaign going.

As well as my Rt. Hon. and Hon. Friends for Leigh, Garston and Halewood, Liverpool Walton and Halton.

Most of all I want to pay tribute to all the people of Liverpool and the people across the country who have stood with these families in the dark times, and to every single person who campaigned for this day to come.

Now rightly, as the Prime Minister said, it is the families themselves who have had first access to this report.

And people will want over many days to properly scrutinise all the documents that have been released and I welcome the Prime Minister's decision to have a debate in October.

But some things have been clear for a long time and will be clearer after the report today. I want to put those on the record:

The tragedy was not caused by fans but by an unsafe ground and terrible mistakes and negligence in policing.

There was a systematic attempt by some in the police to cover this up after the event and, disgracefully, to spread the blame to fans.

They were aided and abetted by parts of the media

And finally, it is clear that the original inquest was hopelessly inadequate, declaring the so-called 3.15pm cut-off, assuming that all those who died had sustained fatal injuries by that time.

When in fact, the post-mortem records show this not to be the case and tragically show some of the victims could have been saved.

So the picture is not one of irresponsible victims, but innocent victims.

Let down by the South Yorkshire Police, the emergency services, the Sheffield coroner, and the wider public authorities.

It is a picture not just of a tragedy, but of a gross injustice.

The victims were not only blamed by those who were supposed to protect them.

They were blamed by those who were themselves responsible for the disaster.

Mr Speaker, after truth must come the best justice that can be provided 23 years late.

Let me ask the Prime Minister therefore three questions:

First, about the possibility of new inquests.

Can I welcome what he says about the Attorney General, and can he just reconfirm the urgency that I am sure he and the Attorney recognise from this side of the House for this decision to be made?

Second, today’s revelations also raise profound questions about the behaviour of the public authorities and the police.

Can he tell us what steps he imagines those authorities to take in response to the Panel’s findings and whether he believes there is any way that those responsible can in any way be held accountable?

Third, does he agree with me that just as he has apologised on behalf of the Government and so too have Sheffield Wednesday on behalf of Hillsborough, the same should be forthcoming from all those who wronged the victims, families and supporters, including in the media – and particularly The Sun newspaper?

Mr Speaker, this is a day that has been far too long in coming.

To the families we say:

We are deeply sorry for your loss.

We are deeply sorry for the pain you have suffered.

We sincerely hope that today marks a day of truth.

So that finally you can grieve in peace.