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john68 wrote:Regarding some of the comments aimed at Hart on here. We do not know for certain what he has said nor if he has said anything. The anger and criticisms of Hart are based only on rumour and speculation and so we should temper it until we have a clearer picture and actual evidence of Hart's attitude. At this moment, he is still our player and at some point we will be probably shouting his name in support from the stands.

you do have to admit tho John that his waffling, barely there quote from Monday which i believe i quoted in this thread a few pages back was not the most City-favorable quote. If it were me, and again, maybe i'm a bit unusual, but i'd have paid my employer, my club and their fans a bit of respect and talked about how much i'd love the challenge of getting them into the CL and that i've just been voted keeper of the year and what a fitting end to the season that would be...but INSTEAD we got an "it's got nothing to do with me."

Which, i defy you to find as a City-friendly attitude. It's about as politically "fucl off City" as i can imagine.

just my opinion John...i sincerely hope i'm wrong. McLeish has poisoned the young lad. I believe that. I hate him for it. This happens all the time in business and sports is no different.

cheers

DoomMerchant wrote:

john68 wrote:Regarding some of the comments aimed at Hart on here. We do not know for certain what he has said nor if he has said anything. The anger and criticisms of Hart are based only on rumour and speculation and so we should temper it until we have a clearer picture and actual evidence of Hart's attitude. At this moment, he is still our player and at some point we will be probably shouting his name in support from the stands.

you do have to admit tho John that his waffling, barely there quote from Monday which i believe i quoted in this thread a few pages back was not the most City-favorable quote. If it were me, and again, maybe i'm a bit unusual, but i'd have paid my employer, my club and their fans a bit of respect and talked about how much i'd love the challenge of getting them into the CL and that i've just been voted keeper of the year and what a fitting end to the season that would be...but INSTEAD we got an "it's got nothing to do with me."

Which, i defy you to find as a City-friendly attitude. It's about as politically "fucl off City" as i can imagine.

just my opinion John...i sincerely hope i'm wrong. McLeish has poisoned the young lad. I believe that. I hate him for it. This happens all the time in business and sports is no different.

cheers

Doomie, you may be right, but I would like to believe he has loyalty to Brum. Not McLeish or the supporters, but rather his teammates. For him to say anything other than what he has would probably not be looked upon well in the looker room and training ground. I know if I were in his shoes my only concern would be my current situation. I realize had he come back and played for us, he would be playing for his chance in to be a CL participant, but there were too many hands involved in his loan status to make it a sure thing. He had no choice but to say what he has said.

Any doubt he has about City fans will last as long as the first time he steps on the pitch as a Man City player next August.

You could well be right Doomie mate but like you, I really don't know for sure and am willing to reserve judgement onhim untill the picture is clarified.

You translate his alleged statement of "It's got nothing to do with me" as being anti City.
It is however possible that Joe Hart, when questioned, did not wish to engage the questioner and his answer was a form of "No comment". It having nothing to do with him, left him free to dodge any further interrogation on the issue. It may also be true that Joe Hart doesn't wish to upset either club. Brum, who have been good to him and given him a chance to hone his skills and gain Prem experience, nor City, with whom he has a long term contract.
We all know how the media can twist words to meet their own agendas and sometimes the less you say, the less you can twist.
As the decision whether Joe returns or not was negotiable by the clubs, Joe was in fact telling the truth.

I sincerely don't know if my take on his alleged quote is correct, but it is an alternative translation to the anti City one.

john68 wrote:You could well be right Doomie mate but like you, I really don't know for sure and am willing to reserve judgement onhim untill the picture is clarified.

You translate his alleged statement of "It's got nothing to do with me" as being anti City.
It is however possible that Joe Hart, when questioned, did not wish to engage the questioner and his answer was a form of "No comment". It having nothing to do with him, left him free to dodge any further interrogation on the issue. It may also be true that Joe Hart doesn't wish to upset either club. Brum, who have been good to him and given him a chance to hone his skills and gain Prem experience, nor City, with whom he has a long term contract.
We all know how the media can twist words to meet their own agendas and sometimes the less you say, the less you can twist.
As the decision whether Joe returns or not was negotiable by the clubs, Joe was in fact telling the truth.

I sincerely don't know if my take on his alleged quote is correct, but it is an alternative translation to the anti City one.

i can't be sure either John, but it just smacks of giving them at least equal weighting as the club who owns his rights. maybe he's been convinced that he'll move there permanently. who can say. And i agree with Bryan's feedback in his post above about him maybe wanting to focus on his current teammates as a priority. I get that.

But i'm kinda old school. We gave him the shot to be Joe Hart...he's our keeper, and he ought to fuclin show the club and the fans some respect. if he'd thrashed around a bit and made some noise maybe Brum would have had to let him go and he'd be our No 1 now and next season and it would be Shay who'd have to supplant him.

What better fuclin opportunity to earn your stripes and your way to SA this summer than by returning to your club and winning some matches for them to get into CL. You could almost guarantee it would have sealed a spot in SA and possibly as the No 1 option imho. What the fuck is he going to do at Brum that can even come close to the story we have for him? Short-sighted at best and downright insubordinate at worst.

that's just how my cynical mind sees it John. Hope i'm wrong, but i think he could have been here if he'd wanted to. He'll pay for this in the long run i think. He really missed some chances on several levels by not sacking up and raising his hand to get in the shit and do battle.

Who's with me here? isn't it that simple?

cheers

Actually what I know for sure happened was City approached Brum, Brum agreed in principle with a certain exorbitant compensation package for Joe, the FA got wind of it and thought the fact money was changing hands on a player to loan a player under contract to us was questionable in integrity so squashed the possibility.

Everything else is just column filler.

Slim wrote:Actually what I know for sure happened was City approached Brum, Brum agreed in principle with a certain exorbitant compensation package for Joe, the FA got wind of it and thought the fact money was changing hands on a player to loan a player under contract to us was questionable in integrity so squashed the possibility.

Everything else is just column filler.

that is true. the emotional element for me tho still rings a bell that doesn't sit well. But those are the dispassionate facts as you laid them out.

i hope he comes back in the summer with a great attitude and has a great season next year.

Up until this issue following the Given injury the Hart loan was an excellent example of how we can benefit from the loan arrangements - we have a key prospect out at a good club getting 1st team experience against top opposition - he has come on really well and therefore he is likely to be our and England's 1st choice keeper for years to come (after another year or 3 - he will still be very young)

So we should not just get pissed because of this incident - although we should learn lessons that inform how we set out future contracts for loan deals - although that said - a season long loan should mean that - the Given injury was a real bit of bad lick.

We should not look for Hart to say / do anything - he is our player doing what we told him to do - and if what we say he should do next year is something different then that is up to us. We have him on a long contract - on terms Brum cannot match - and his development is going well.

We should be careful of getting too arrogant and start 'lording it' over Birmingham - the deal as gone well - we have 2 of the best keepers in the league. I used to be envious of Chelsea - we now have that position - but a keeper needs to play - so we have satisfied that - whereas Chelsea did not to their detriment.

If Shay is fit for the start of the season it would be sensible to loan him to Birmingham again (or somewhere similar) - he will improve further and then be ready to step in - solving us a problem of buying one of the world's best at many millions

Other loan deals - e.g. Vlad - have not worked so well - lets not lose perspective

If we can loan a player from Sunderland I can't see why we can't loan a player from Birmingham.

The only people blocking Hart coming back to us are Birmingham City.

Wouldn't you love to be the person who answers that phone call from them when they ask if they can keep him for another season!?

King Kev wrote:If we can loan a player from Sunderland I can't see why we can't loan a player from Birmingham.

The only people blocking Hart coming back to us are Birmingham City.

Wouldn't you love to be the person who answers that phone call from them when they ask if they can keep him for another season!?

Which is what Mancini said in his interview.

Birmingham.....sister city with Newcastle....neither can speak proper English ,fucking mongs of England both of them.

(Spaghetti junction should finish in a knot)