Drop Hart? (NEW POLL AFTER CHELSEA FARCE))

[MilnersJaw]

Pellegrini will drop Hart, and not just to give Panti a game at Newcastle. He'll drop him for league games too. Hart will then ask for transfer in January and the ragss wil sign him when DeGea goes home to Spain.

Let the rags sign him. Be with his best mates then.

[TheReturnOfTheSpecialOne]

I am not sure Hart will be dropped with the World Cup coming up.He should be dropped,but i am worried Pellegrini might be reluctant to do it for fear off a media backlash.Or mayne even pressure from the FA that dropping him might affect his International form.For me England comes second City comes first.

Pellegrini can drop him then loan him out in January if Panty makes the position his: there's plenty of time for Hart to convince Hodgson, if that is his priority
Apart from 'Head and Shoulders', of course!

[TheReturnOfTheSpecialOne]

saved us vs CSKA but cost us today. too volatile.

He sort of saved us v Moscow but really their player just hit the ball straight at him and it hit his leg.Today sadly he messed up because he had two or 3 decisions to make and got them both on their goal. First he went racing off his line when it was pretty clear Nastasic was in perfect position to head it back to him.Just routine bit of defending from an aimless punt forward.

No he didn't 'sort of saved us v Moscow': that was Quinn and the other Hart cheerleaders in the media trying to big up Hart after his previous cock-up: the same cheerleaders who put this nonsense in his head that he was 'the best goalkeeper in the World
He just got in the way of the shot

[dazby]

I'm a bit sympathetic towards Joe with this. He's taking responsibility trying to clear the danger but its obvious Nasty can't hear him.

Having written that, I still want him dropped.

[Tokyo Blue]

I'm a bit sympathetic towards Joe with this. He's taking responsibility trying to clear the danger but its obvious Nasty can't hear him.

Having written that, I still want him dropped.

If I were Pantilimon, I'd put a written transfer request in first thing Sunday morning if I didn't play the Norwich game.

[Sister of fu]

saved us vs CSKA but cost us today. too volatile.

He sort of saved us v Moscow but really their player just hit the ball straight at him and it hit his leg.Today sadly he messed up because he had two or 3 decisions to make and got them both on their goal. First he went racing off his line when it was pretty clear Nastasic was in perfect position to head it back to him.Just routine bit of defending from an aimless punt forward.

After setting off he should have recognised he should never have started but he didn't.Then finally when Nasti did head the ball he had that split second to handle the ball.It missed his head by a fraction so it would have been easy to just knock it with his hands but he didn't have the awareness to do that.He would have been sent off but we would have got a point that we thoroughly deserved,

That's a great point about getting himself sent off. He should have took one for the team, the ban would have been one game and that game was Wednesday when he wouldn't have played anyway.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

That's a great point about getting himself sent off. He should have took one for the team, the ban would have been one game and that game was Wednesday when he wouldn't have played anyway.

Cheer us up and tell us which outfield you'd have thrown in had he taken one for the team.

I'll start and put Nastasic in as he seems to share Joes lack of giving a fuck at times.

[Two's Kompany]

Don't want to sound like a kid off BM, but what I was told after the Bayern defeat was Pelligrini was more annoyed annoyed about the goal which Muller scored.
Hart apparently called for it so Clichy left it. With Hart taking all the flak (for the other 2 goals), Clichy refused to aportion any more blame on Hart.
All keepers make mistakes like letting the ball go under their bodies etc as this can be worked on in training, but when their decision making is poor that's a major cause of concern apparently.

[sheblue]

Give no hands and shoulders a 'rest' on Wednesday.

[Cit.revenge]

I just watch few times that goal , Nastasic did ok close off Torres watch the ball and put it at the hands of Keeper , normal reaction of CB , but Hart wtf hes doing there in first place Torres is nowhere near to overtake Nastasic , why the fuck he going out of the zone?!!!I do not know is rumor that Manchini is planing to buy Mingolet or Begovic true but i can see why ! This is last season and startof this and in a lot of games he was not up to class keeper we need.

[john@staustell]

You can only 'back' the keeper for so long. Sunday he was so far off the mayk in judgement it was, as they said, like a Sunday League match.

Time for a long rest, like a young Joe Corrigan had.

[Herb]

No need to go into details any more because I think there's now a very common acceptance that we can't afford to have a fluffer like Hart throwing games every other week. His errors cost us dearly last season (at least 10 points dropped for no reason) and it looks like his incompetance has all but cost us the title this year too.

[Cocacolajojo1]

No need to go into details any more because I think there's now a very common acceptance that we can't afford to have a fluffer like Hart throwing games every other week. His errors cost us dearly last season (at least 10 points dropped for no reason) and it looks like his incompetance has all but cost us the title this year too.

Ironic post of the season so far.

[Sideshow Bob]

No need to go into details any more because I think there's now a very common acceptance that we can't afford to have a fluffer like Hart throwing games every other week. His errors cost us dearly last season (at least 10 points dropped for no reason) and it looks like his incompetance has all but cost us the title this year too.

Ironic post of the season so far.

oh you noticed a spelling error. good one.

[Cocacolajojo1]

No need to go into details any more because I think there's now a very common acceptance that we can't afford to have a fluffer like Hart throwing games every other week. His errors cost us dearly last season (at least 10 points dropped for no reason) and it looks like his incompetance has all but cost us the title this year too.

Ironic post of the season so far.

oh you noticed a spelling error. good one.

Well if you can't see the humour in that particular spelling error I can't help you.

[Wonderwall]

NEW Poll added following the chelsea farce

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Watched Torres's goal again before and it gets worse every time you see it. WTF was Hart doing? It absolutely baffles me, there was no danger from that long ball at all.

Needs to be dropped immediately.

[Herb]

Ironic post of the season so far.

You're right, it's extremely ironic -Joe Hart takes an unauthorised mental holiday for 18+ months and costs Manchester City FC and it's loyal following 2 or perhaps 3 trophies and . . . . . . and I've made a spelling mistake.

Me and Joe - our situations are just sooo alike.





Is that in the running for sarcastic post of the season so far Coca? ;-)

[Saul Goodman]

I don't know how many of you saw this on skysports today but I found it to be pretty interesting. Unfortunately the images aren't copyable on my mobile so check out the link here:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... int-so-joe

Say it ain't so, Joe

Too confident? Not confident enough? Issues with long-range shots or poor decision making? There are lots of theories behind Joe Hart's struggles. Adam Bate looks at the statistics to find out more...

In the summer of last year, Joe Hart was untouchable. Named in the Premier League team of the year for a second time, a title winner with Manchester City and firmly established as England's No.1, many were confidently proclaiming him as a world-class goalkeeper. "It's nice for people to say that but I know from the inside how quickly things can change in football," he told the Daily Mail. "I'm only where I am because someone else lost his place, so I'm fully aware that I need to play well to keep mine. Nothing is a given."

And so it has proved. By his own admission, Hart's form dipped as City relinquished the title last season with the errors racking up. A couple of mistakes against Southampton in February sparked criticism from then boss Roberto Mancini. "It's not strange because he did two or three mistakes this year and this is not good for us," he told the Guardian. "Joe is a good keeper but a goalkeeper can't do a mistake like this. If Joe continues to make mistakes, he goes on the bench."

The warning was not heeded. An Andy Carroll shot squirmed past him in April and the current season has begun in similar vein with a mistake for England against Scotland before further errors against Cardiff, Aston Villa and Bayern Munich proved costly. But the last-minute rush from his line that led to Chelsea's winner at Stamford Bridge on Sunday was perhaps a new low. Now it's Manuel Pellegrini deciding against publicly backing his goalkeeper. "Of course I'm worried about the mistakes," said the City manager. Cock-ups in games between the two title favourites live on Super Sunday are bound to increase the pressure on Hart but it raises a key issue - Is his form really so bad or are the problems simply being highlighted more than those of others? After all, Fraser Forster can make low-key errors in the Scottish Premier League but still win himself a fan club with a handful of high-profile performances in the Champions League.

The bad news for Hart's supporters is that the statistics suggest the 26-year-old keeper is struggling badly. His tally of eight errors leading to goals since the beginning of last season is more than any other Premier League goalkeeper. The only other keeper to make more than five such errors in that time is Wigan's Ali Al-Habsi, a player now fighting for a starting spot in the Championship. Reading's current back-up keeper Adam Federici is among the next on the list. In comparison to his peers at the top of the table, the contrast is stark. When David de Gea was compared to Hart as recently as the spring, it was considered by some to be a slur on the City man. Now it seems he should be flattered by any such link. Hart's eight errors leading to goals since the summer of 2012 are two more than De Gea, Petr Cech, Hugo Lloris and Wojciech Szczesny have been responsible for between them in that time.

So what is his problem? To answer that question, it is perhaps best to start with by discussing what it isn't. For each of the past two seasons, Hart has ranked above average among Premier League goalkeepers in terms of the percentage of saves he makes from shots inside the area. Furthermore, he is in the minority among the 20 first-choice keepers in having yet to drop a cross so far this season.

The difficulty appears to come when dealing with efforts from outside the area. Hart's six saves from shots that were taken outside the 18-yard box is a Premier League low amongst the regular keepers. That shouldn't be too much of a surprise given that City are one of the division's stronger sides. What's alarming is that he has let three goals go past him from outside the box. Only Cardiff's David Marshall has conceded more and he's had to make a whopping 22 such saves.

Of course, there is a danger with such statistics. For example, Andreas Weimann's tapped effort after Hart rushed from his goal is included among those goals from outside the area. But add to this the two Champions League goals that Bayern scored at the Etihad Stadium, when Hart was beaten at his near post, and a picture builds of a keeper who is continually found wanting from angles and distances that should not be troubling a top-class performer. It is sometimes claimed that a key part of keeping out long-range efforts is to get set for the shot. However, with Hart the problem may begin with his trigger movement - a small mini-leap that delays the dive for a split second before pushing off to either side. It certainly seems clear there is an issue. Hart ranks No.20 for stopping shots from outside the box this season and No.18 last season. Relegation form.

Joe Hart conceded twice at his near post in the 3-1 home defeat to Bayern Munich What any speculative technical analysis fails to elucidate is the player's deterioration in performance levels after impressing in the 2011/12 season when he had an overall saves-to-shots ratio approaching 80 per cent rather than this year's 62 per cent. The explanation here seems likely to be mental rather than physical. Some have suggested a lack of concentration is at the root of his difficulties - a situation made worse by the fact that there is little competition for his place at either club or international level.

Others point to the conspicuous over-confidence that Andrea Pirlo spotted before chipping a penalty past him at Euro 2012. "Hart looked very confident in himself, so I thought we had to bring him down a peg or two," said the Italian. Confidence is a fragile beast and there remains a suspicion that Hart did not respond well to the criticism of Mancini. Does an overtly cocky demeanour mask insecurities? Unfortunately for Hart, the life of a goalkeeper is such that in trying to be too assertive, there is a danger of exacerbating the problem.

Goalkeeper-turned-author Justin Bryant has discussed the difficulty professionals face when trying to prove their worth. In referring to one particular trial, Bryant writes: "It wasn't like the early days, when I was a stumbling, hesitant mess, full of self-doubt. It was more a case of being too impatient, too anxious to show that I was good... I tried the extravagant instead of the simple." Perhaps the desire to show he remains an assertive goalkeeper unfazed by his critics was behind Hart's desire to take responsibility at Stamford Bridge rather than leave Matija Nastasic to deal with the situation.

For all the concerns, there is plenty of time to turn things around. All goalkeepers must come through difficult periods. It is the nature of the position. But we are reaching the point at which the blip veers toward the malaise. The man who once invited generous comparisons with England heroes Peter Shilton and David Seaman could be forgiven for instead nervously perusing the Wikipedia page of Paul Robinson - Leeds United player of the year and England international at 23. Both scenarios remain possible. Joe Hart is at the crossroads. And as the man himself says: "Nothing is a given."
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... int-so-joe

Ugh, I can't get the URL to show in its entirety on my mobile. Sorry

[Saul Goodman]

And this:

When does a top-class goalkeeper become a dangerous liability?

That is the question being asked of Manchester City and England No. 1 Joe Hart, who on Sunday was guilty of yet another error when Fernando Torres nipped past him to score a late winner for Chelsea.

With next summer's World Cup firmly on the horizon, there is a real fear Hart will lose his place in the City team to Costel Pantilimon, with manager Manuel Pellegrini in unforgiving mood after a third away defeat of the season already.

And given the catalogue of errors Hart has been responsible for this season, perhaps England should be wondering whether it's time to give Celtic's Fraser Forster a go between the sticks too.

Though Roy Hodgson continues to back Hart, here are eight goals, from this season alone, that explain why the man who was supposed to be England's number one for at least a decade is now on such shaky ground...

1. James Morrison, Scotland v England (August 14)

A dramatic 3-2 friendly win for England against their Auld Enemy gave a first indication that the errors which marred Hart's performances towards the end of last season had not been eradicated over the summer. Morrison produced a rather meek shot from 20 yards at Wembley and Hart only managed to bat the ball down and over the line rather than tipping it round the post.

Gaffe rating: 2/3

2. Fraizer Campbell, Cardiff City v Manchester City (August 25)

As the clock struck 78 minutes of the 3-2 defeat at the hands of the newly-promoted side, a corner was delivered from the right and Hart, jostling with Aron Gunnarsson, completely flapped at the ball, allowing former Manchester United striker Campbell to head home and make it 2-1.

Gaffe rating: 3/3

3. Andreas Weimann, Aston Villa v Manchester City (September 28)

Another 3-2 defeat – this time with City losing away at Aston Villa – saw Hart make another mistake. A long kick-out from Brad Guzan bounced between Matija Nastasic and Vincent Kompany – meaning the centre-backs share a portion of the blame – but when Weimann nipped in between them, Hart was too hesitant in coming out to claim the ball and instead left himself stranded as the Austrian forward nicked the ball past him and tapped into a empty net.

Gaffe rating: 2/3

4. Franck Ribery, Manchester City v Bayern Munich (October 2)

Just seven minutes into the Champions League tie at the Etihad Stadium, Franck Ribery cut in from his usual position on the left and let fly with his right book. His shot had some venom, but Hart had plenty of time to see it come at him from 20 yards and still allowed it to skid under his arm and bounce up into the net.

Gaffe rating: 2/3

5. Thomas Mueller, Manchester City v Bayern Munich (October 2)

Hart was left looking a bit silly for Bayern's second on the night as Mueller took the ball past him and slotted it home. The England keeper was undoubtedly exposed, and could have dealt with the situation with more authority, but really this one was Gael Clichy's fault for the most part: he inexplicably allowed Mueller to run in behind him and collect a high ball over the top.

Gaffe rating: 1/3

6. Arjen Robben, Manchester City v Bayern Munich (October 2)

To complete a miserable evening's work, City were caught on the break at the Etihad Stadium after an hour and conceded again. Arjen Robben danced past Nastasic after being fed on the right wing and then, with his weaker right foot, fired a shot at goal that was at a nice height for the City keeper and at his near post. Hart, though, managed to merely palm it into the net.

Gaffe rating: 2/3

7. Romelu Lukaku, Manchester City v Everton (October 5)

Coming just three days after his horror show against Bayern, Hart needed an incident-free game when Everton faced Manchester City at the Etihad. Unfortunately, he was under the microscope once again when the Toffees took the lead. Joleon Lescott, Aleksandar Kolarov and Nastasic were all arguably at fault to allow Lukaku to race through on goal; the Belgian's strike was close enough for Hart to make the save, however, yet still he allowed it to squeeze past him. At least City went on to win 3-1.

Gaffe rating: 1/3

8. Fernando Torres, Chelsea v Manchester City (October 27)

And so to the final insult. City looked to be on course for a good point at Chelsea on Sunday before a high ball from Willian caused havoc at the back. Hart was clearly seen to be shouting 'keeper' as he advanced from his line to attempt to collect the ball, only for Nastasic to fail to hear him and head it past his team-mate, allowing Torres to race onto it and slot home from a tight angle. However, there was absolutely no need for Hart to come off his line and he should have anticipated that Nastasic, in the final minute at a lively Stamford Bridge, would not be able to hear him. Had he stayed on his line, City would have taken a point.