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A further bit to add to Ant's post, this taken from the BBC:

'Rennes claim Helan signed a pre-contract agreement with them as a 13-year-old that tied the player and club to a deal if the player represented France at junior level. The defender, dubbed the new Patrice Evra, went on to captain the France Under-16 team'

If we've got any lawyer types on here; does that not equate to signing a player to a pro contract when he's 13? They're putting in clauses when he's 13 that he's theirs as a pro if France pick him??! ..and WE'RE the fucking bad guys??!!

Surely this must be a breach of FIFA regulations & it's THEM who should be answering charges? That stinks worse than any kind of tapping up imo. What a fucking deal to give to 13 year old kid, involving coaches at the national level & the possibilities for corruption are mind boggling.

Most importantly, are all these transfer bannings going to effect championship manager 2010?

Ted Hughes wrote:A further bit to add to Ant's post, this taken from the BBC:

'Rennes claim Helan signed a pre-contract agreement with them as a 13-year-old that tied the player and club to a deal if the player represented France at junior level. The defender, dubbed the new Patrice Evra, went on to captain the France Under-16 team'

If we've got any lawyer types on here; does that not equate to signing a player to a pro contract when he's 13? They're putting in clauses when he's 13 that he's theirs as a pro if France pick him??! ..and WE'RE the fucking bad guys??!!

Surely this must be a breach of FIFA regulations & it's THEM who should be answering charges? That stinks worse than any kind of tapping up imo. What a fucking deal to give to 13 year old kid, involving coaches at the national level & the possibilities for corruption are mind boggling.

I'm guessing that a parent or guardian would have had to play a major part in such an agreement, and then the question would arise about whose best interests this person was obliged to act for; the child or Rennes, and whether this person could be proven to have acted improperly at any point. Any cash involved in the agreement (I'm guessing at least a small sum exchanged hands somewhere) would, I guess, not have been given directly to the kid, so it would be interesting to know what happened there.

Anyway, they're French. They should give up without too much of a fight.

BlueinBosnia wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:A further bit to add to Ant's post, this taken from the BBC:

'Rennes claim Helan signed a pre-contract agreement with them as a 13-year-old that tied the player and club to a deal if the player represented France at junior level. The defender, dubbed the new Patrice Evra, went on to captain the France Under-16 team'

If we've got any lawyer types on here; does that not equate to signing a player to a pro contract when he's 13? They're putting in clauses when he's 13 that he's theirs as a pro if France pick him??! ..and WE'RE the fucking bad guys??!!

Surely this must be a breach of FIFA regulations & it's THEM who should be answering charges? That stinks worse than any kind of tapping up imo. What a fucking deal to give to 13 year old kid, involving coaches at the national level & the possibilities for corruption are mind boggling.

I'm guessing that a parent or guardian would have had to play a major part in such an agreement, and then the question would arise about whose best interests this person was obliged to act for; the child or Rennes, and whether this person could be proven to have acted improperly at any point. Any cash involved in the agreement (I'm guessing at least a small sum exchanged hands somewhere) would, I guess, not have been given directly to the kid, so it would be interesting to know what happened there.

Anyway, they're French. They should give up without too much of a fight.

...but still be whinging about it & blaming us in 100 years..

Bingo Lewis wrote:If we've done it, we've gotta accept the consequences.
I just hope the club have some kind of contingency in case Chelseagate MKII does happen.

what like buying 5 years worth of players in two windows ;)

From what I gather, if anyone is guilty of anything it's the young player - he didn't need inducing to break a contract because he was already in a legal battle with the club about it in the first place. I am not concerned about these aligations in the slightest and City have nothing to answer.

ross.mcfc wrote:

IanBishopsHaircut wrote:

ross.mcfc wrote:

IanBishopsHaircut wrote:I'm sorry but it's really hard not to be a conspiracy theorist looking at this...the top clubs in the UK being targeted...a hefty transfer window ban to a Champions league contender with the promise of more big english teams following suit when clubs in this country are the dominant force...meanwhile Real Madrid and the European elite seemingly being overlooked?

Platini must be rubbing his hands in glee

Where abouts in the UK are Roma?

If we are found guilty then we should face the concequences. Its a highly immoral practise and if it takes a few clubs getting a transfer ban including us I will back Fifa all the way.

Ahhh because Roma are a real dominant European force arn't they...get off your fucking soapbox...you'll be bringing back pigskin balls next...

This is the fucking 21 century and money rules the world...So you think dragging youngsters out of poverty is a bad thing? Maybe from the point of view of the club that has nurtured his talent...but that club will survive...it will churn out more youngsters...some will succeed...most will fail...so what if I bigger club comes in waving its cheque book...once in a lifetime opportunities come round exactly like it says on the tin...once...and who can blame the kids...or the parents for that matter...having their heads turned by mind boggling amounts of money...anyone would do the same...smaller clubs will ALWAYS be feeders to the bigger clubs...cold hard facts...the food chain...simple as that

Certainly a more dominant force than we have been in the last 30 years. Certainly a bigger name and history than City and Chelsea. A Swiss side have also already been done for this so Fifa are treating everyone the same. If your guilty of the crime you should be punished regardless of your country of origin.

Taking children out of poverty? Who are you? Bono. You know the exact family details and background of this kid in question do you? Last time I checked France wasnt a 3rd world nation.

I dont disagree about the food chain but it only works if the bottom of the food chain is duly rewarded. Stealing them for nothing will f**k the whole thing up. If we were still struggling at the bottom end of the premiership without a penny to rub together and found out Chelsea had done the same with our kids we would be going mad.

HAHA

Made me piss that one!

By the way I hope FIFA are going to investigate how it can be possible that this club can get a 13 year old to sign a contract like that in the first place, surely that's not right either.

I wonder how many who thought it was wonderful when Chelsea received their punishment still think the same now. This was so obvious, a man on a galloping horse could have spotted it.

I have faith in City, I am sure that if they did any wrong doing then they will get away from it, afterall I am sure City can afford the top law firms in the world to fight the case?

mr_nool wrote:

irblinx wrote:Hardly surprising this, every Prem team will end up accused and of course twatini will be loving it

Every case on its own merits of course but I can see the clubs going to the European courts over this and the whole football transfer system getting ripped to pieces along with Twatini's proposed foreign player quotas. Fifa are basically presiding over a rulebook which breaks most of the labour laws as it is, for them to continue their crusade against the Prem League by dragging this up may well bring the entire house of cards tumbling down around them.

Agree. I think it's quite morally grey to have 12-13 year old kids sign long term contracts as well, like the French clubs have been doing. And don't you think they tapped the players from their village clubs when doing so?

i read somewhere, can't recall where i read this tho atm, that Platini has created a program throughout the years where he inseminates loads and loads of french immigrant women with his supersperm which is why they know which of them to offer a contract to at such young ages. He marks their hovels with a lock of his hair so that the Clairefontaine stasi can stop by and scoop up the lad when he's about 5 or 6. i'm not saying i believe it, but just saying that i read it somewhere. I mean, FFS, why else is he losing his hair? think about it people.

i've also heard that he's a Cylon, a Body Snatcher, the Borg, and also maybe just French. Bon soir regret.

cheers

DoomMerchant wrote:

mr_nool wrote:

irblinx wrote:Hardly surprising this, every Prem team will end up accused and of course twatini will be loving it

Every case on its own merits of course but I can see the clubs going to the European courts over this and the whole football transfer system getting ripped to pieces along with Twatini's proposed foreign player quotas. Fifa are basically presiding over a rulebook which breaks most of the labour laws as it is, for them to continue their crusade against the Prem League by dragging this up may well bring the entire house of cards tumbling down around them.

Agree. I think it's quite morally grey to have 12-13 year old kids sign long term contracts as well, like the French clubs have been doing. And don't you think they tapped the players from their village clubs when doing so?

i read somewhere, can't recall where i read this tho atm, that Platini has created a program throughout the years where he inseminates loads and loads of french immigrant women with his supersperm which is why they know which of them to offer a contract to at such young ages. He marks their hovels with a lock of his hair so that the Clairefontaine stasi can stop by and scoop up the lad when he's about 5 or 6. i'm not saying i believe it, but just saying that i read it somewhere. I mean, FFS, why else is he losing his hair? think about it people.

i've also heard that he's a Cylon, a Body Snatcher, the Borg, and also maybe just French. Bon soir regret.

cheers

He clearly works for the company. I will use my abillities to bring him down.

mr_nool wrote:

DoomMerchant wrote:

mr_nool wrote:

irblinx wrote:Hardly surprising this, every Prem team will end up accused and of course twatini will be loving it

Every case on its own merits of course but I can see the clubs going to the European courts over this and the whole football transfer system getting ripped to pieces along with Twatini's proposed foreign player quotas. Fifa are basically presiding over a rulebook which breaks most of the labour laws as it is, for them to continue their crusade against the Prem League by dragging this up may well bring the entire house of cards tumbling down around them.

Agree. I think it's quite morally grey to have 12-13 year old kids sign long term contracts as well, like the French clubs have been doing. And don't you think they tapped the players from their village clubs when doing so?

i read somewhere, can't recall where i read this tho atm, that Platini has created a program throughout the years where he inseminates loads and loads of french immigrant women with his supersperm which is why they know which of them to offer a contract to at such young ages. He marks their hovels with a lock of his hair so that the Clairefontaine stasi can stop by and scoop up the lad when he's about 5 or 6. i'm not saying i believe it, but just saying that i read it somewhere. I mean, FFS, why else is he losing his hair? think about it people.

i've also heard that he's a Cylon, a Body Snatcher, the Borg, and also maybe just French. Bon soir regret.

cheers

He clearly works for the company. I will use my abillities to bring him down.

i love when you talk dirty...

cheers

I have absolutely no idea what you two are on about there

FUCKING FRENCH - STICK TO BOILING SNAILS WITH GARLIC INSTEAD OF WHINGING ABOUT WHO NICKED WHO FROM WHO.......YOUR FOOTBALLS FUCKING SHITE...AND IT,S GETTING WORSE.

FUCK OFF PLATINI AND WHILE YOUR AT IT...TELL MARSHMELLOW TO FUCK OFF AS WELL.


MORE IMPORTANTLY - WHATS THE STARTING 11 AGAINST THE GUNNERS?

What sort of two bob country would allow minors to enter into legally binding contracts .......... ah, it is France I suppose

irblinx wrote:What sort of two bob country would allow minors to enter into legally binding contracts .......... ah, it is France I suppose

What? What? I'll have no Welsh or Yorshire Pit workers in my Country I can tell ya!

Moaning bastards - Jobs? Pah ...

City ignored warnings over Hélan's 'contract'

Premier League club in 'poaching' row claim player's ties to Rennes were void

By Ian Herbert, Deputy Football Correspondent
Wednesday, 9 September 2009

The French teenager Jérémy Hélan was also a target for Manchester Scum
Manchester City were told that teenage defender Jérémy Hélan was contractually bound to the French club Rennes a month before dismissing the claims and signing him for their academy.

Rennes, who have reported City's actions to football's world governing body Fifa and expect a transfer ban to be imposed similar to the punishment handed out to Chelsea in the Gaël Kakuta case, have a file on the case which includes the letter they wrote to City's solicitor George Davies on 27 January and another to executive chairman, Garry Cook, and chairman, Khaldoon al Mubarak, a day later, reminding them of the player's contractual obligations to them. Davies replied to say that City did not consider Hélan to be tied to the French side.

City remain confident that they acted entirely within the bounds of football law in the new case, details of which were revealed by The Independent yesterday. Legal advice was sought on the validity of the original contract, which Hélan signed at the age of 13 before heading for the French Football Federation's (FFF) famed Clairefontaine academy, and the response is understood to include the conclusion that it was void on at least three grounds.

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But Rennes, who lodged the case with Fifa in March, insist that the contract Hélan was tied to was binding enough to make Manchester United abandon their pursuit of the same player, having offered Rennes a fee for him. The Rennes technical director, Pierre Dreossi, told The Independent yesterday that his club had held discussions with United about Hélan after the defender decided he wanted to play at Old Trafford instead of joining them after Clairefontaine.

"We had a meeting with Manchester United and they made us an offer about this player," Dreossi said. "We discussed the offer once but United [realised the position] and said: 'It is not possible to make a deal with you as you do not want to sell.' They said, 'fair play,' and it was closed but the player went in secret to Manchester City. Our letters to City said it was not possible to sign him as he was our player. City have played him anyway but they can't. It's forbidden. He has a contract with us and can't have a contract with two clubs. We told them that."

The loss of Hélan from the national youth system has been a source of more indignation in France than Kakuta over the past 18 months. United's initial approach prompted a robust response from L'Equipe, including the headline "Manchester pillerait Clairefontaine?" ("Is Manchester pillaging Clairefontaine?"). That was in May of last year when Old Trafford, rather than Eastlands, appeared to be the player's destination. Reports on the case at that time suggested that he was also attracting the interest of Milan, Newcastle United and Everton.

Ironically, Rennes are known in France as the club which provides the greatest incentives to buy young players from smaller clubs. But Hélan was theirs from an early age and they have certainly been supported within the country on this case. It is understood that the French football league, the Ligue de Football Professionnel (LFP), stepped in on their behalf when United had made their move.

The FFF evidently blundered initially when a secretary sent the player's International Transfer Certificate (ITC), clearing his move to City, to the Football Association by mistake. But Dreossi said that the federation realised its error and within a week had contacted the FA to point it out. The picture is complicated by the fact that Hélan is trying to establish in the French courts that his contract was void. This case has now reached a French labour tribunal after the French League commissions and the French Olympic Committee rejected his case.

Rennes insist the case is actually more clear-cut than that of Kakuta, whose move to Chelsea and the west London club's subsequent transfer window ban, has prompted the current examination of the signing of teenage players. While Kakuta's pre-contract agreement offered the possibility of a proper contract, Hélan's agreement guaranteed a two-year deal if he represented the France while at Clairefontaine. Hélan, now 17, was France's Under-16 captain, a year before Kakuta.

Fifa confirmed yesterday that the Hélan case had been referred to it, as has Fiorentina's complaint about the way that Manchester United signed their former youth player Michele Fornasier. No investigation has been started in the Fornasier case as Fifa does not have all the documentation. Fifa is also examining United's approach for the Empoli youngster Alberto Massacci. The Italian Football Federation has not granted an ITC and neither has the FFF in the case of Paul Pogba, whose move to Old Trafford has left Le Havre unhappy.