The art of corner taking ......

[Rag_hater]

Its Route 1 football of the most basic kind.

It's part of the game! You don't select parts of football you don't like & decide you're not going to be any good at it because it offends your principles!

'Oh I feel conceding goals is wrong so I'll do withut a goalkeeper'.

I take your point its part of the game but I dont see it as a particular weakness of ours.I think we are about the same as most other teams.If you get about 6/7 corners a game it will be about every 5 or 6 games you score.I should imagine every team is about there,along with us.
Also I think that it is not a skill the top teams have to excell at.For me the top teams should be able to pass their way around stubborn teams.I dont think teams like Barça and AC or them are top of their leagues because they are good at corners.There is a lot more to their game

A goal is a goal however you score it. A scrappy own goal counts all the same as a 50 pass move or a 40 yard volley.
You can't discount it. United are very dangerous from set pieces as are Chelsea. You say you don't want us to score from corners because it's anti football? Get over it. It's a perfectly legitimate way of scoring a goal.
In games such as Villa when we clearly couldn't break them down with passing, it's good to be able to knock a ball into the box, bang, goal.

Very well thanks.
Them and Chelsea are very dangerous from open play aswell as set pieces so that argument has two sides.
Yeah we should obviusly get Pullis as manager and he can teach our boys about lobbing in the box and we will be a much more dangerous proposition.Forget the fact the game we are supposed to be playing is called Football not head ball.If we score in the last minute from a corner I will be as happy as the next blue but it wont stop me thinking that its the kind of goal a pub team would practice or Stoke.
Anybody can do it and the fact we mark Zonally suggets its pretty predictable.If we manage to keep our concentration nobody would score agaist unless they get a huge slice of luck or something flukey happens.
From what I saw we tried it against Villa and it didn't work cos its easy to defend.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

"Anybody can do it " Apparently not

[Rag_hater]

"Anybody can do it " Apparently not

Everybody else can were just shit.
Surely you must have seen millions of goals from corners.Mainly agaist us.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

FFS. SCORING FROM A CORNER IS HARDLY PUB TEAM ISH.
WE'D ALL LIKE TO SEE US SCORE BEAUTIFUL GOALS EVERY GAME BUT IT ISN'T POSSIBLE.
WE NEED TO BECOME MORE THREATENING FROM SET PIECES. END OF.

[mr_nool]

I'm gonna climb out on a limb here ...

Anyone remember how it was 15 years ago? Corners were aimed at the penalty spot, in a high trajectory.Sometimes it resulted in goals, but 7 out of 10 corners were snapped up by the keeper who had plenty of time to leave his line and go out to grab the ball above the heads of even the tallest opponents.

Today players try to hit their corners hard with a very flat and fairly low trajectory. The margin of error - in terms of beating the first man - is much smaller, but when you do, the reward is great. It is very difficult to defend against these sort of corners. The keeper won't have time - or the guts - to go for the ball. Even if you don't find the head of a team mate, the ball can bounce in any direction, like a pinball. And moreover, with everone expecting a flat and hard corner, you can every now and then throw the defence off by hitting it hard an long, like PSV did against Lille last night (2:09 minutes in to the film on this [urlnp=http://www.goalsarena.com/video/uefa-europa-league/17-02-2011-lille-psv-eindhoven-europa-league_en.html]LINK[/urlnp])

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I'm gonna climb out on a limb here ...

Anyone remember how it was 15 years ago? Corners were aimed at the penalty spot, in a high trajectory.Sometimes it resulted in goals, but 7 out of 10 corners were snapped up by the keeper who had plenty of time to leave his line and go out to grab the ball above the heads of even the tallest opponents.

Today players try to hit their corners hard with a very flat and fairly low trajectory. The margin of error - in terms of beating the first man - is much smaller, but when you do, the reward is great. It is very difficult to defend against these sort of corners. The keeper won't have time - or the guts - to go for the ball. Even if you don't find the head of a team mate, the ball can bounce in any direction, like a pinball. And moreover, with everone expecting a flat and hard corner, you can every now and then throw the defence off by hitting it hard an long, like PSV did against Lille last night (2:09 minutes in to the film on this [urlnp=http://www.goalsarena.com/video/uefa-europa-league/17-02-2011-lille-psv-eindhoven-europa-league_en.html]LINK[/urlnp])

Definitely.

As I said earlier this corner is fantastic imo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHig7bokE8#t=0m54s

[Douglas Higginbottom]

"Anybody can do it " Apparently not

Everybody else can were just shit.
Surely you must have seen millions of goals from corners.Mainly agaist us.

Of course I have seen plenty ( not millions) and we are crap BUT not anybody can do it.It requires a little work,real desire from the attacking and some quality.

[mr_nool]

I'm gonna climb out on a limb here ...

Anyone remember how it was 15 years ago? Corners were aimed at the penalty spot, in a high trajectory.Sometimes it resulted in goals, but 7 out of 10 corners were snapped up by the keeper who had plenty of time to leave his line and go out to grab the ball above the heads of even the tallest opponents.

Today players try to hit their corners hard with a very flat and fairly low trajectory. The margin of error - in terms of beating the first man - is much smaller, but when you do, the reward is great. It is very difficult to defend against these sort of corners. The keeper won't have time - or the guts - to go for the ball. Even if you don't find the head of a team mate, the ball can bounce in any direction, like a pinball. And moreover, with everone expecting a flat and hard corner, you can every now and then throw the defence off by hitting it hard an long, like PSV did against Lille last night (2:09 minutes in to the film on this [urlnp=http://www.goalsarena.com/video/uefa-europa-league/17-02-2011-lille-psv-eindhoven-europa-league_en.html]LINK[/urlnp])

Definitely.

As I said earlier this corner is fantastic imo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHig7bokE8#t=0m54s

Larsson's got one hell of a right foot. Too bad that's all he got.
Watching that corner made me realise that I forgot to mention the most obvious reason why "new corners" are more dangerous the "old corners". To score from a corner with a high trajectory, you actually need to head the ball with force, to give it enough speed to beat the keeper. From a low and hard corner, you only need to put your head to the ball ...

[zuricity]

My opinion on corners is this .

It has become a luxury.....

What do I mean by that?

Well it's as if we have to get the right player to take the corner, and he needs to have twenty seconds to execute the process.

Occasionally a quick short corner will be taken.

Normally it's as if we have to make a telephone call to tell them we are taking a corner.

Rather like Monty pythons Wuthering heights in semaphore.

It must be that certain roles should be picked up by any player, near post far post, etc.
The more unorganized it is , the much likelier there will be errors made by the defense and more opportunities for players in the box.

You know, " Get on with it!"

[Ted Hughes]

It's not a new thing, it's a very old thing. Have a look at videos from the era of Bell Lee & Summerbee (that famous pub team) & see how many corners are involved. Then have a look at the Wyn Davies team. Then have a look at Tony Book's trophy winning pub team & note the way they line up for a corner with Doyle, Watson, Booth, Royle all attacking the ball one after the other. The next season you could add Brian Kidd & Bell to that list. Fucking deadly & would massacre our current defence.

Then have a look at Livrpool's pub team with Keegan & Toshack or the Leeds pub team of Jack Charlton & Mick Jones & Alan Clark or Villa's European Pub cup winning team containing Peter Wythe, Then skip forward to Arsenals pub league winning team with Bould, Adams & Alan Smith, or Blackburn's pub team with Shearer Sutton & Colin Hendry, then Utd's pub team with Steve Bruce & the treble pub winning team with Sherringham & Solskjaer winning the Champion's league with..a corner, then Chelsea with John Terry & Utd & now even Arsenal are getting good at corners again.

Everybody who's any good & wins anything in this country is good at corners & set pieces. If we're not, they will always have an advantage & it may stop us from winning stuff.

[Rag_hater]

It's not a new thing, it's a very old thing. Have a look at videos from the era of Bell Lee & Summerbee (that famous pub team) & see how many corners are involved. Then have a look at the Wyn Davies team. Then have a look at Tony Book's trophy winning pub team & note the way they line up for a corner with Doyle, Watson, Booth, Royle all attacking the ball one after the other. The next season you could add Brian Kidd & Bell to that list. Fucking deadly & would massacre our current defence.

Then have a look at Livrpool's pub team with Keegan & Toshack or the Leeds pub team of Jack Charlton & Mick Jones & Alan Clark or Villa's European Pub cup winning team containing Peter Wythe, Then skip forward to Arsenals pub league winning team with Bould, Adams & Alan Smith, or Blackburn's pub team with Shearer Sutton & Colin Hendry, then Utd's pub team with Steve Bruce & the treble pub winning team with Sherringham & Solskjaer winning the Champion's league with..a corner, then Chelsea with John Terry & Utd & now even Arsenal are getting good at corners again.

Everybody who's any good & wins anything in this country is good at corners & set pieces. If we're not, they will always have an advantage & it may stop us from winning stuff.

All good points and well said some of that was an education for me.
However I think that the game has moved on since the references you make and the defenders today would have studied what people like Watson etc were going to do.Nowadays players can't take each other by suprise so much and have seen most of it before and know how to defend against it.And also the protection goalies get makes the job more difficult.
And its unlikely that current defences would have a pint or fag at half time so I don't think they would get massacared they'd have more energy.

[Ted Hughes]

It's not a new thing, it's a very old thing. Have a look at videos from the era of Bell Lee & Summerbee (that famous pub team) & see how many corners are involved. Then have a look at the Wyn Davies team. Then have a look at Tony Book's trophy winning pub team & note the way they line up for a corner with Doyle, Watson, Booth, Royle all attacking the ball one after the other. The next season you could add Brian Kidd & Bell to that list. Fucking deadly & would massacre our current defence.

Then have a look at Livrpool's pub team with Keegan & Toshack or the Leeds pub team of Jack Charlton & Mick Jones & Alan Clark or Villa's European Pub cup winning team containing Peter Wythe, Then skip forward to Arsenals pub league winning team with Bould, Adams & Alan Smith, or Blackburn's pub team with Shearer Sutton & Colin Hendry, then Utd's pub team with Steve Bruce & the treble pub winning team with Sherringham & Solskjaer winning the Champion's league with..a corner, then Chelsea with John Terry & Utd & now even Arsenal are getting good at corners again.

Everybody who's any good & wins anything in this country is good at corners & set pieces. If we're not, they will always have an advantage & it may stop us from winning stuff.

All good points and well said some of that was an education for me.
However I think that the game has moved on since the references you make and the defenders today would have studied what people like Watson etc were going to do.Nowadays players can't take each other by suprise so much and have seen most of it before and know how to defend against it.And also the protection goalies get makes the job more difficult.
And its unlikely that current defences would have a pint or fag at half time so I don't think they would get massacared they'd have more energy.

Modern day players are sometimes better at jumping than the old time players (but only sometimes, Joe Royle was a school age high jump champion), however imo, very few have the actual skill & timing with their heads that many had in the old days & was possessed even by some smaller players like Keegan & Denis Law. They also attacked the ball with much more ferocity in those days & were unafraid of either getting hurt or hurting an opponent; not so many people collapsing holding their heads every time there was a contact, they just got on with it. If City put the right ball in though, peole like Lescott will attack it. It was a bit easier with the old ball but should still be a fairly simple task for a pro footballer.

The only modern day player with the kind of power & presence (& intimidation) that the old mob had though, that I've seen is Andy Carrol & he scored v us from a corner. Andy Morrison was the last City player in that mould.

[TheGOAT]

A random sample of English Premier League matches found that a goal was scored once every 36 corner kicks (Taylor et al, 2005). This study also reported that of 217 corners attempted only 31% resulted in a shot. A study of the Euro 2008 tournament (31 matches) showed that 313 corner kicks resulted in 26 shots (8%) and 5 goals – a 1:63 goals to corner ratio.

I dont think taking good corner is as easy as people here assume.
Anything thats high enough to beat the first man is gonna be easy fodder for a half decent goalie.

This is spot on!!
I can't stand people who moan about this first man bollocks!! The reason there is a man standing there is becasue it is the most dangerous position to attack the goal. The important thing about a corner is the pace it is hit at. If you get it right they are harder to defend against!!

[Ted Hughes]

A random sample of English Premier League matches found that a goal was scored once every 36 corner kicks (Taylor et al, 2005). This study also reported that of 217 corners attempted only 31% resulted in a shot. A study of the Euro 2008 tournament (31 matches) showed that 313 corner kicks resulted in 26 shots (8%) and 5 goals – a 1:63 goals to corner ratio.

I dont think taking good corner is as easy as people here assume.
Anything thats high enough to beat the first man is gonna be easy fodder for a half decent goalie.

This is spot on!!
I can't stand people who moan about this first man bollocks!! The reason there is a man standing there is becasue it is the most dangerous position to attack the goal. The important thing about a corner is the pace it is hit at. If you get it right they are harder to defend against!!

Not if it's nowhere near any attackers it's not. If you have decent headers of the ball, they can generate their own pace & direction if you put the ball where they can actually get a head on it. Part of the problem these days is that corner takers believe that THEY have to almost score the goal with their delivery rather than the bloke recieving the ball. It's not true. Watch Cahill.

[Rag_hater]

I'm gonna climb out on a limb here ...

Anyone remember how it was 15 years ago? Corners were aimed at the penalty spot, in a high trajectory.Sometimes it resulted in goals, but 7 out of 10 corners were snapped up by the keeper who had plenty of time to leave his line and go out to grab the ball above the heads of even the tallest opponents.

Today players try to hit their corners hard with a very flat and fairly low trajectory. The margin of error - in terms of beating the first man - is much smaller, but when you do, the reward is great. It is very difficult to defend against these sort of corners. The keeper won't have time - or the guts - to go for the ball. Even if you don't find the head of a team mate, the ball can bounce in any direction, like a pinball. And moreover, with everone expecting a flat and hard corner, you can every now and then throw the defence off by hitting it hard an long, like PSV did against Lille last night (2:09 minutes in to the film on this [urlnp=http://www.goalsarena.com/video/uefa-europa-league/17-02-2011-lille-psv-eindhoven-europa-league_en.html]LINK[/urlnp])

Some of that sounds right to me.
However I do think that the game has moved on and balls near the penalty spot are what defenders nowadays are ready for.
And I don't buy this argument that players these days are pussies.Just look at how Terry for example plays,he has a reputation for sticking his head in daft places,a few games ago our Pablo had to have his head bandaged, our Micah and Nigel injured each other.If one goes back to last years WC and studies the ammount of times Busquets got his head cut it kind of dispels the argument that players nowadays don't get stuck in.Nigels tackle on Xabi and the leg he broke earlier on against Arfa suggest the game is still as hard as it ever was with lighter and faster balls and equipment.
Unless a team comes up with something original from a corner or unexpected the defending team will be able to cope.Either that or a perfect delivery which is not gonna happen unless a team spend all week preparing.

[colonel_muck]

I think it's just generally the art of crossing that seems to have faded a bit. There's definitely less emphasis on it these days.

couldn't agree more. i think it's because there's been more emphasis on reading the game over the last ten years or so and defenders have learned well. i watch games sometimes where i can tell before it's been crossed that it's not going to be worth it but still the cross goes in, and back out it comes. Incidentally, how bad are City at dealing with the second ball?

[Ted Hughes]

Rags; short corner, chipped into the danger area in the middle of the box, flick of the head 1-0. How many times have they done that short corner to us in the last 20 years? Even in the last 3 or 4?

Simple as having a shit. We're usually fucking constipated unfortunately.

[Rag_hater]

Rags; short corner, chipped into the danger area in the middle of the box, flick of the head 1-0. How many times have they done that short corner to us in the last 20 years? Even in the last 3 or 4?

Simple as having a shit. We're usually fucking constipated unfortunately.

Sounds like a basic form of Route 1 that to me or something you would see the Dog and Duck playing.
And I don't think it happens as often as you say.

[Ted Hughes]

Rags; short corner, chipped into the danger area in the middle of the box, flick of the head 1-0. How many times have they done that short corner to us in the last 20 years? Even in the last 3 or 4?

Simple as having a shit. We're usually fucking constipated unfortunately.

Sounds like a basic form of Route 1 that to me or something you would see the Dog and Duck playing.
And I don't think it happens as often as you say.

So crossig the ball is pub football ? Better tell Kaka & Ronaldo, they did it more than the rags yesterday.

[dazby]

Rags; short corner, chipped into the danger area in the middle of the box, flick of the head 1-0. How many times have they done that short corner to us in the last 20 years? Even in the last 3 or 4?

Simple as having a shit. We're usually fucking constipated unfortunately.

Sounds like a basic form of Route 1 that to me or something you would see the Dog and Duck playing.
And I don't think it happens as often as you say.

Total and utter WUM.