OK, how do WE beat Barca?

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Honestly? Pedro is a phenomenal player. Would easily get in our side.

[brite blu sky]

Barca are definitely beatable but one of the issues is how much they respect you as a team. For instance v Real they played a different game and sat back a bit to counter the threat of Real's forward talent, imo that worked and Real just resorted to breaking the play up. Where Barca have come unstuck is playing teams that they don't expect to have trouble with and leave the back exposed then get caught out with very determined fast counter attacking.

So counting that out for CL, they present a massive challenge and basically no-one has much of a coherent plan that works.

We have seen that City are copying Barca's style of no clear front man and the FB's pushing up the field, while controlling midfield at our pace.
My concern and of others here is that City are doing that at the expense of learning the english basics of wide play, pacey attacks and target men... however there is some evidence that this is not going to be forgotten by Mancini and the team will start to mix it up. For me this would be the key to beating Barcelona, but the level that City would have to be at as a team negates being anywhere near good enough until the season after next.
The basics would be something like this though.
1. Have 4 attacking players all good at playing deep. 2 of which are very good on the wings, at least one able to be a traditional target man ( Balo).
2. 3 mids supported by the 2 FBs and not weak tackling wingers. All these 3 must be able to pass their way around a 50p piece and good tacklers. I would push VK up to be one of these 3.
3. only 3 defenders tasked to be the defence. 1 CB (Kolo) & the FBs .

That system would mirror Barca and attempt to have enough bodies in the midfield as needed to win the ball something like 50/50. It would not waste a CB just sat waiting to be outplayed in his own area when Barca get in close, rather it would allow VK to be trying to break up play a bit higher before they get going. Almost most importantly it would give them something to think about at the back... and this is where City would have to be able to mix the play up.. bypassing the midfield at times and trying to put their FBs ill at ease and using our target man to also undermine their confidence in their back line. Midfield would be flooded, if it worked would probably be quite scrappy, but whatever, with the options to release the ball early it would suit City.

They key for me is not to lose shape and to have the right numbers in the right places and enough wildcard play to fuck up Barca's almost robot like routine of playing. I have seen them lose the plot when they can't do what they always do and they have few answers other than do what they always do only a bit more frantically.

It goes without saying that the City players would have to play one of the games of their lives and as a team literally be able to think as one; we are way off that as yet. That said i would say that it would be great to get Barca in the group and have a go at trying to learn something over two the games. If Mancini is here in the Prem to learn something then he must get on with it and he must also show if he has any genius to try and improve on what Barca are capable of.
That is a tall order but not impossible.

[branny]

Defend a damn sight better than they did last night for starters.

[The Original Special One]

Well, Nige would certainly be a huge improvement in what they faced in their opponents midfield yesterday; I presume Ya Ya could do a similar job as he did at Barca and would know their players.
Our full backs would need to lot a lot of bombing up and down the flanks to keep their full backs busy, and Mario has the pace to beat their central defence as long as he was aware of their offside trap

[The Original Special One]

Would any of our players get in their side?
Kompany and Tevez would have a chance imo. It's scary to think Silva wouldn't even get in their side.

Tbh I think Kompany, Tevez, Silva, Yaya, De Jong & Balotelli could all individually swap for their Barca counterparts & there would be no difference provided it was only one of them playing at any time. The way Barca play, if you put all 5 in at once, it would totally fuck them up. I recon any one of those players would immediately start playing the 'Barca way' if they were put in that team, with that movement around them. In our team, they only do it in flashes. The key is to get our whole team doing it all the time. Not easy but not impossible.

I don't think SIlva or Nige would get in. Silva isn't as good as Xavi, Iniesta, Messi or Pedro. Nige isn't good enough on the ball to get in their team.
Yaya never nailed down a permanent place in their side.
Balotelli wouldn't either imo.

Kompany, and Tevez would maybe.

Yaya was a mainstay of their team until Busquets came along. Messi said as much when he left. Many Barca fans would have had Yaya over Busquets as would I. I think Silva would fit into their pattern in place of either Xavi or Iniesta & look every bit as good. The type of football they play is exactly what Silva does.

When rating any of Barcas's players though, however good their system, people need to remember that they all play alongside Lionel Messi. De Jong, Yaya, Messi, Silva ,Tevez, Balotelli playing under direction of Guardiola would give Mascherano, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta Villa, Pedro +A.N. Other, managed by Bob, a serious game & probably beat them imo.

Disagree, Iniesta and Xavi are the heartbeat of Barca, even without Messi Barca would dominate. They can keep the ball for 15 minute spells, every single player is comfortable on the ball. The question is would any of our inidvidual players get in the Barca side? And imo with the exception of Kompany and Tevez maybe they wouldn't.

I don't agree; the difference last night was the way Messi skipped and danced his way through the middle of United's defence; it was like The Parting of The Red Sea, every time he picked up the ball around the boundary of the centre circle.

[Rag_hater]

Do what Real did to them in the kings cup.
I think the team Jose is putting together will overtake this Barça side next year.

[Hazy2]

I was there last night as BARCA member I got a ticket through the draw. and IMHO they would take some beating, the ball never stops moving and the times I thought of a former star of there' YaYa jogging back for us looking shagged, would be like scoring for them. Like Rugby in a way if you miss a tackle then space in the end kills you, Barca find space, Xavi and Iniesta are imo simply to good for us and dropping back to hit them on the break is suicide, they will run the legs of you and in the end IMO whatever you do they get you in the end, The best team I have ever seen live, Rag players looked so tired it was tbh shocking they almost looked like they had hit the wall in a marathon. All of the above and then they have Messi the best player the world has ever seen fact. Great to see the rags destroyed, however we are no where near BARCA'S level, BUT WHO IS. THEY ARE SIMPLY AWSOME.

[Ted Hughes]

Barca are awesome & probably the best side I've seen BUT there are very few really top quality defences in modern football so it's difficult to judge. When Mourinho (& Bob) organised one at Inter, they beat them. He's working on organising another at Real & imo wasn't as far away in the recent games as some suggest.

If you could combine an attacking unit 70% as good as Barca's & back it up with a defence much better than Barca's, you would be in with a decent chance. Testing them with the occasional cross wouldn't be a bad idea either, something which Utd do in the Prem but bottled doing in the final ( to Ferguson's fury). The Barca CB's should have been tested by stronger hold up play too. Ferguson's gamble, leaving out Berbatov for Pee, was an absolute disaster imo, handing possession to Barca.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

You just can't beat Barcelona if they play as they did last night.
If Messi has a good day, you can't stop him, simple as. Xavi and Iniesta are impossible to play against.

The fact is bar Mascherano and maybe Busquets, every single Barca player would get in our team.

[Lev Bronstein]

You just can't beat Barcelona if they play as they did last night.
If Messi has a good day, you can't stop him, simple as. Xavi and Iniesta are impossible to play against.

The fact is bar Mascherano and maybe Busquets, every single Barca player would get in our team.

Bizaarly enough, I think that Busquets is one of their more important players. Look how often he picks the ball up and recycles it for Xavi and Iniesta.

[blues-clues]

There seems to be two things, the way they play and the players themselves. The two are inextricably linked. The way they play will be mimicked by many but it is like a highly tuned engine. If something is slightly wrong then it simply wont work.

Whilst the individuals cover huge amounts of ground, very little of it is at break-neck speed. They are just constantly moving, looking for a yard of space and either compressing or stretching play. It takes years playing together to build up the understanding they have of each others movements. This means that whenever a player receives the ball he always has at least two options and he knows what they are before the ball arrives. If options do become limited they have no problem going all he way back and starting again. They virtually never play a long ball unless the receiving player is unmarked or is running into space. Even on corners they dont risk losing possession and play it short more often than not.

They had a free kick with one player behind the wall who peeled off and nearly scored. It was a simple move but hugely effective and they were clearly disappointed it didn't come off but it depended upon perfect timing and would have been a thing of beauty.

The there are the players. For the way they play they probably have 7-8 of the best in the world at playing in that way. Tevez would fit into their team easily but I am not sure who he would replace (Villa or Pedro I guess) he plays the game in nearly the same way, great close control and phenomenal energy, he might be too selfish for Barcelona but I reckon once he realised the quality that was around him he would adapt to that team pretty well. Scary that Villa is probably a weak link in that team but he is still improving and his goal last night was a thing of absolute beauty. All the players work for each other and the overall outcome rather than personal glory. You can question their integrity sometimes, eg v R. Madrid but their ability going forward and playing the Barcelona way is outstanding in every position. Defensively there may be questions but how can you tell? They have been attacked so few times this season!

It would be interesting to see how they would play on a lumpy wet sticky pitch in the middle of winter. It would be interesting to see how they would cope with an aerial challenge with so many midgets in the team.....this must have been tried but pinning the two wing backs down with long balls down the wing and a couple of greyhounds and a CF who would bust a gut to get into the penalty box....dunno someone must've tried that already?

I think it is easy to get carried away with that performance. I know plenty of rag supporters who feel fortunate to have won anything this season and feel that others have lost it rather than them winning the league, the standard has dropped. They had players who showed plenty of endeavour but simply do not have the ability. Would we really take any of Park, Carrick or Valencia? Do they compare to the midfields that they have had in the past? The midfield was where Barcelona destroyed and humiliated United, and to some extent that was where we beat them at Wembley too.

Can we compete with Barcelona now? I doubt it very much but I would think we could give them a better test than that, I really think our midfield would be better and better prepared. If the rags are the second best team in Europe then I dont think City have a great deal to fear from anyone but Barcelona.

[getdressedmctavish]

I dont know whether you can beat them but there are three important rules. One move up and down as a unit, dont let a big gap develope between your mid field and defence, Xavi and Iniesta will cause havoc if you do. Two keep the ball and wait for the foul, dont try and penetrate too quickly or your mf will be knackered. Three, play in their half when possible looking for free kicks and c orners where they are no better than you. And four, pray.

[john68]

Al that footall technological stuff seems very complicated....Why not just swap shirts before the game starts rather than the end. I could cope with watching Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and co in sky blue.

[Im_Spartacus]

Wait for Mourinho to knock them out, then beat his side.

Good point that pal, he isn't that far away from doing it. I think Mancini could and would employ the same sort of tactics Jose did in the semi, and I think that if you could keep 11 on the pitch you have a chance of nicking an away goal, or taking it to the penalty lottery.

To suggest you could beat them by a clear goal in normal time either as a one off or over two legs is fanciful to say the least.

I said the same to the munes I know, saying Fergie should drop his principles and try to spoil the game, however looking back at it, with only Carrick, Park & Anderson who could contribute to breaking up that mdifield, they were doomed from the start as they just didnt have the players who could do it. I would say that we should fare slightly better in that area, however they would still tear us to shreds up front.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

[halnone]

[youtube]JrDbhVU0kY8&feature=feedlik[/youtube]
Easy

[Hazy2]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

Some would say Messi occupies 6 players during a game. The holding midfielder is shiting himself messi will rob him of the ball the back 4 and GK know he is to good for them and look as Saturday proved spellbound. The player is so good it makes anything we watch look 2nd rate in the Prem. For me go long when its on miss out the chess board minefield, and have a strong player like Tevez another Argie by the way hold it up and get support there even then they sus it out and pass you to death, what was so plain was the energy the rags had to use to stay with them, whatever you do IMHO they are to good to be true and fatigue was major on Saturday.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

Some would say Messi occupies 6 players during a game. The holding midfielder is shiting himself messi will rob him of the ball the back 4 and GK know he is to good for them and look as Saturday proved spellbound. The player is so good it makes anything we watch look 2nd rate in the Prem. For me go long when its on miss out the chess board minefield, and have a strong player like Tevez another Argie by the way hold it up and get support there even then they sus it out and pass you to death, what was so plain was the energy the rags had to use to stay with them, whatever you do IMHO they are to good to be true and fatigue was major on Saturday.

Yes I agree, Messi is the star of the side but Xavi and Iniesta are the foundations. Sorry to be cliche. Mess is brilliant but I watch Barca often and without their central midfield they would suffer more. As good as Messi is you need to get the ball to him.

It's not doing Barca justice to say without Messi they wouldn't be that great, they would still be by far and way the best side in the world.

[dazby]

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/video/470551/Fozz-talks-tactics

Simple but effective.

[Sideshow Bob]

Can we compete with Barcelona now? I doubt it very much but I would think we could give them a better test than that, I really think our midfield would be better and better prepared. If the rags are the second best team in Europe then I dont think City have a great deal to fear from anyone but Barcelona.

How quickly we forget games like Arse at home, Blue Dippers away, etc? We've improved by miles, but we still tend to bend over for teams who control possession or press the ball high up the pitch. Barca would fuck us dry.