Human rights

[Beefymcfc]

Conn by name, con by nature. Was it proved that these individuals were tortured, and if so, by what means; 2006-07 end of season review?

[paulh]

the rags loving this throwing at people from all directions

if we look at the rags they are owned by American/Jews now I am not getting personal with individuals from these countries but both have shocking human rights records and are hated by the greater world in general due to their current and past goverments

[carl_feedthegoat]

I accept this is far from black and white and that they needed to act to prevent an islamic revolution. It is a long road to successful democracy in that part of the world and I have little doubt that that family remains the best option for the Emirates. The fact the prison terms are not draconian and that a proportion were cleared stands out but I will nontheless heavily criticise tge use of torture same as I would in my own or any other country!

Torture is aceptable in extreme cases but certainly not for crimes mentioned in the article.

[Original Dub]

Fuck conn, he's a dick.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

the rags loving this throwing at people from all directions

if we look at the rags they are owned by American/Jews now I am not getting personal with individuals from these countries but both have shocking human rights records and are hated by the greater world in general due to their current and past goverments

Jews are hated by the greater world?

And the slight difference is, the glazers don't rule the USA.

Beefy, the UAE governments don't really even attempt to deny torture as it is routinely used.

[paulh]

the united owners have links with Israel and the USA though

I would argue both Israel and the USA are hated by a lot of nations to (again not my opinion just an observation)

Without being political or narrow minded couldnt a person argue ok the UAE has a bad human rights record but there is a very low crime rate in this country etc? (this is not my opinion just chucking an example in)

[sandman]

fuck 'em, they should live in a civilised country. as long as we're winning games of football, that's all that matters.

1,000,000 x This ^^^

[Mansour21]

Jews are hated by the greater world?

And the slight difference is, the glazers don't rule the USA.

Beefy, the UAE governments don't really even attempt to deny torture as it is routinely used.

Routinely used? Arjan mate can i ask when did you notice that UAE has HMR issues? Like how many years.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

This thread reminds me of that episode of Father Ted where they're protesting outside a cinema iirc holding signs reading ' down with this sort of thing '.

The way I see it is that Sheikh Mansour buying City and other businesses in the western world is a good thing as it educates people on both sides of the cultural divide, which in turn leads to less oppressive rulers in the world.

I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread as football is my release from all this bollox.

ps David Conn is a twat.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

I don't understand the relevance of the question, but specifically it was 1991.

Your earlier post extolling the benefits to a UAE citizen, none of that applies to the vast majority of the population does it?

[bigblue]

I accept this is far from black and white and that they needed to act to prevent an islamic revolution. It is a long road to successful democracy in that part of the world and I have little doubt that that family remains the best option for the Emirates. The fact the prison terms are not draconian and that a proportion were cleared stands out but I will nontheless heavily criticise tge use of torture same as I would in my own or any other country!

Torture is aceptable in extreme cases but certainly not for crimes mentioned in the article.

May be acceptable morally in your mind but that point ignores the larger issue... Torture is primarily used as a deterrent/punishment or a way for interrogators to appear useful within the organization. It is extremely ineffective at drawing out accurate information. Not only is it inhumane, it is also pointless and a waste of time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-5011381.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/us/po ... html?_r=1&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effectiven ... errogation

[Mansour21]

I don't understand the relevance of the question, but specifically it was 1991.

Your earlier post extolling the benefits to a UAE citizen, none of that applies to the vast majority of the population does it?

It does, to all.

I asked you this question because from the court hearing a witness who attended their secret meetings said that their first plan in 2011 was to change the image of the country, large amounts of money have been paid to some people in Europe to incite the western public opinion against UAE.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

It does, to all.

I asked you this question because from the court hearing a witness who attended their secret meetings said that their first plan in 2011 was to change the image of the country, large amounts of money have been paid to some people in Europe to incite the western public opinion against UAE.

Oh please.

[Socrates]

I don't understand the relevance of the question, but specifically it was 1991.

Your earlier post extolling the benefits to a UAE citizen, none of that applies to the vast majority of the population does it?

My understanding is that the vast majority of the local population do very well indeed, it is the imported cheap labour who are horribly exploited.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

My understanding is that the vast majority of the local population do very well indeed, it is the imported cheap labour who are horribly exploited.

I'm talking about the long list of benefits that emiratis get, didn't want people thinking that applied to everyone (they don't even all apply to emirati women), but yes

[Mansour21]

I'm talking about the long list of benefits that emiratis get, didn't want people thinking that applied to everyone (they don't even all apply to emirati women), but yes

What?! What does not apply to all emiratee women? Stop saying these things unless it is true! All the benefits that i listed before are applied to both men and women except for the land part she needs to be divorced to apply for a land.

[paulh]

why should a country follow what we think is right???? the world is different across regions and has different practices and beliefs.

for example if i AM using our country then i dont think its right to be in a war against a nation far way because our friend the usa says so!

I dont think its right this country created the first concentration camps!

not being lefist just giving examples that every country and continent has good and bad doings

[Arjan Van Schotte]

What?! What does not apply to all emiratee women? Stop saying these things unless it is true! All the benefits that i listed before are applied to both men and women except for the land part she needs to be divorced to apply for a land.

Yes, that was the one I meant, so my assertion was correct.

[Beefymcfc]

the rags loving this throwing at people from all directions

if we look at the rags they are owned by American/Jews now I am not getting personal with individuals from these countries but both have shocking human rights records and are hated by the greater world in general due to their current and past goverments

Jews are hated by the greater world?

And the slight difference is, the glazers don't rule the USA.

Beefy, the UAE governments don't really even attempt to deny torture as it is routinely used.

I'm not saying they don't do it mate but in this case it's just alledged and guilt seems to be proved by assumption.

We all know that they have a crude, to say the least, Human Rights Bill and if I remember right they are now looking at efforts to improve their policies. The transient demographic have it hard but at the same time they still want to go there as it's better there than their own country - live in poverty with no chance of a future or live with a future with no chance of poverty.

What has got to be rememered is that 'we' have had good relations with the UAE for hundreds of years and when it suits we have decent trade. Only this year the Queen, and mainly the government, invited our owner (and Co) to talks to cement further relations. That says to me that the wider issue of HRs is negligible and the thought of sustained relations is far more important to us, and them, in this current climate.

What also has to be remembered is that they have different rules and regulations to us. They are an Islamic state who have far different values to us which have to be respected. Over here we allow protests and such whilst also allowing many things that can lead to repercussions down the road whereas in the UAE, and most Middle Eastern states, they take a zero tolerance attitude to people breaking their laws and treat offenders accordingly.

As I said mate, when in Rome act as a Roman, and that's what I like to see in this country. Problems occur when people decide to flout the law and then run to the soft arses for protection.

As Carl would say, this is what leads to 'Broken Britiain', a place where many no longer understand where they live.

As for the story in place, it's brought enough talk on here but I'm still not sure why it should be applied to Manchester City Football Club. Does the Sheikh stop people from feeding their face over Ramadan or drinking alcohol at the match; stop people from attending who have homosexual tendancies or prevent entry because individuals are not married? Like I say mate, they have their laws, we have ours. Seems we have no respect these days and that every country should follow the version of our events.

[Cocacolajojo1]

I Think there's a big difference in accepting that the world is rotten in general and consciously buying products from someone you know has blood on their hands.

Welfare bought through torture, dictatorship and patriarchy is freedom based on the acceptance of captivity.

I'm still gonna watch city but I don't like our owners' political luggage.

Judging by the moral relativism here I would have thought I was in academia and I watch football to get some release from that stuff.

I'm not judging anyone, we all have our own conscience and values.

We could do something though, if we wanted. Politics isn't hard. Big corporations are as sensitive as teenagers when it comes to criticism.