Next: Chelsea (Away)

[nottsblue]

Do not know if that was a response to my post - but if so I really think that you are missing a big aspect of how the game is played in 2013/14. You need to have Goalkeepers that are not just excellent at stopping shots - but can then act to start the game moving from defence.

Even more so you need defenders that can, for instance win the header and break up an attack - but increasingly as important link to the M/F and start the attacks. The era of the Lescotts that can do nothing other then pass 5 yards sideways are history. Every Time Lescott has the ball it means that the opposing midfield and defenders have plenty of time to organise before he has worked out in which direction he is going to play the ball for 5 to 10 yards.

BTW - not suggesting that Garcia is anything other than a poor CB - just that I understand if Pellers does not see Micah or Joleon as a preferred option.

Sorry. Not having that. Defenders are there to defend. If they can play a bit that is a bonus but not a requesit. Playing a 5 yard pass to another City shirt is no bad thing. We clearly can't have a team of players who can only do that but if that is all the centre back does then so be it. Just make sure the lad 5 yards away then does something with it

[mcfc1632]

Cool - that is your opinion and I am fine with that. I have a different one - and it seems so does our manager.

[nottsblue]

Cool - that is your opinion and I am fine with that. I have a different one - and it seems so does our manager.

Fair enough. Would like to Demicelis in action though. Cant be worse than Garcia. Apparently he is an organiser which will help

[mcfc1632]

Agreed - I think that Pellers quickly decided that Lescott was not his type of player and not capable of adapting - so made that purchase - then unfortunately he got injured.

So for me Pellers is just waiting for him to be fit and recognising that whoever was used in the interim was a compromise - but he would rather take a risk with Garcia that the Micah or Lescott.

At least that will end up with 2 top CBs - if you subscribe to the theory that Nasti is (or can develop into) one - and a back up that can play the ay that Pellers wants and is willing to be a back up. Or it may be that Nasti drops back to being the back up until he has developed a bit further

[Spurge]

Masterstroke if Kompany does play ...... two fingers up at Sky and Maureen aswell ;-)

Really really want us to beat Chelsea and get our title push rolling big style !

Vinnie has not made it I'm afraid so no master stroke (source: City today off site)

[AG7]

Can someone pls dig up Pellegrini (Malaga) v Mourinho (Real Madrid) head to head records from La Liga (and other cup games etc)? I think Aguero will score, he's in red hot form at the moment ... so then when he scores, we haven't lost a game ... and Jose on the other side hasn't lost at Stamford Bridge (50 games and counting) ... one of these stats will get broken ... unless of course it's a draw ... which at the moment is looking likely and a result that both managers will probably be happy with, but I hope they sit back for a nil-nil draw and we go for the jugular ...

[MilnersJaw]

Do not know if that was a response to my post - but if so I really think that you are missing a big aspect of how the game is played in 2013/14. You need to have Goalkeepers that are not just excellent at stopping shots - but can then act to start the game moving from defence.

Even more so you need defenders that can, for instance win the header and break up an attack - but increasingly as important link to the M/F and start the attacks. The era of the Lescotts that can do nothing other then pass 5 yards sideways are history. Every Time Lescott has the ball it means that the opposing midfield and defenders have plenty of time to organise before he has worked out in which direction he is going to play the ball for 5 to 10 yards.

BTW - not suggesting that Garcia is anything other than a poor CB - just that I understand if Pellers does not see Micah or Joleon as a preferred option. So basically we do not have a satisfactory option - I would criticise Garcia as much as anyone as a CB - but (personal opinion) I can see Micah or Joleon making just as many mistakes.

Yes because Garcia is hitting those long nice passes to silva and co. considering we have no problems attacking in the league having already scored the most, we are failing defensively. But I guess all those goals because Garcia played at cb for a few duh.

[aaron bond]

Agreed - I think that Pellers quickly decided that Lescott was not his type of player and not capable of adapting - so made that purchase - then unfortunately he got injured.

So for me Pellers is just waiting for him to be fit and recognising that whoever was used in the interim was a compromise - but he would rather take a risk with Garcia that the Micah or Lescott.

At least that will end up with 2 top CBs - if you subscribe to the theory that Nasti is (or can develop into) one - and a back up that can play the ay that Pellers wants and is willing to be a back up. Or it may be that Nasti drops back to being the back up until he has developed a bit further

I understand your points on why Pellegrini is choosing Garcia and Nastasic, although don't agree it's the best solution - we had a good discussion on this in another thread a few days back :-)

My concern with Demichelis is that we bought him only when we had the injury crisis. If he was THAT good Pellegrini would have taken him for free when he left Malaga. For me, he can't be any worse than Garcia or Nastasic but I'm not getting my hopes up that he'll be the answer.

Obviously I do hope he can slot right into the side without any issues!

[mcfc1632]

"Yes because Garcia is hitting those long nice passes to silva and co. considering we have no problems attacking in the league having already scored the most, we are failing defensively. But I guess all those goals because Garcia played at CB for a few duh."


Sorry - do not know if you were agreeing with me there or not?

If you are trying to point out that we score more when Garcia is CB rather than Lescott then a quick look at the results would seem to confirm that you are right.

If you were being sarcastic, then I would say that things are not black and white and that few, certainly not me, would advocate that Garcia is a great choice at CB, but in the absence of Demichelis he seems to be the go to choice of Pellers. This could be for the reason that you point out - we seem to score more when defence and midfield connect more positively.

People look for the negatives - fuck me I have my heart in my mouth whenever I see Garcia at CB - but no more than when I see Lescott.Joleon will win you more headers but fuck he is 'limited' when people are coming at him and the ball is on the ground - which it will be against Chelsea.

I would rather have Micah than Lescott and then I remember the times I have previously seen him at CB and my word he is simply no good in that position. Ball winner - yes, winner of headers - yes - but he seems not to have a disciplined football brain and you need that as a modern day CB and he would likely we hopelessly out of position against a fast moving bunch of midfielders and strikers such as Chelsea have.

My starting 2 would obviously be Vinnie and Nasti - Demichelis then as back-up - although I hope he is better than I remember on the few occasions that I recall seeing him on TV - Pellers choice so I assume he must be. I wish we could have kept Kolo but that is history and then if you have to choose between Garcia, Micah and Joleon - I would reluctantly select Garcia as he is 'least bad' - not because I consider him to be 'good'. I actually might prefer Boyata.

I just hope that our academy will be bringing CBs of the future through, those capable of playing in midfield and therefore can play CB in the modern way - like Vinnie - and not the CBs needed of yesteryear like Joleon.

[mcfc1632]

Agreed - I think that Pellers quickly decided that Lescott was not his type of player and not capable of adapting - so made that purchase - then unfortunately he got injured.

So for me Pellers is just waiting for him to be fit and recognising that whoever was used in the interim was a compromise - but he would rather take a risk with Garcia that the Micah or Lescott.

At least that will end up with 2 top CBs - if you subscribe to the theory that Nasti is (or can develop into) one - and a back up that can play the ay that Pellers wants and is willing to be a back up. Or it may be that Nasti drops back to being the back up until he has developed a bit further

I understand your points on why Pellegrini is choosing Garcia and Nastasic, although don't agree it's the best solution - we had a good discussion on this in another thread a few days back :-)

My concern with Demichelis is that we bought him only when we had the injury crisis. If he was THAT good Pellegrini would have taken him for free when he left Malaga. For me, he can't be any worse than Garcia or Nastasic but I'm not getting my hopes up that he'll be the answer.

Obviously I do hope he can slot right into the side without any issues!

I also have my reservations. My memory of having seen him in the past was not 'wow' - but I was not really looking that closely. I think that he is an OK CB that and clearly Pellegrini must believe he can do a solid CB job and link with the midfield - and is happy to be cover, but I do not think that he is a top CB. I agree he was only purchased at the end of the window because of injuries - not a good sign.

When I see the way Kolo is playing at Liverpool so far then I am not expecting Demichelis to offer more than him and therefore I wish he would have been happy to stay as cover.

[zuricity]

I also have my reservations. My memory of having seen him in the past was not 'wow' - but I was not really looking that closely. I think that he is an OK CB that and clearly Pellegrini must believe he can do a solid CB job and link with the midfield - and is happy to be cover, but I do not think that he is a top CB. I agree he was only purchased at the end of the window because of injuries - not a good sign.

When I see the way Kolo is playing at Liverpool so far then I am not expecting Demichelis to offer more than him and therefore I wish he would have been happy to stay as cover.

Your points are very valid. When Vince came to us he was bought as a defensive midfielder. His passing never was and never will be good enough for that role. His sheer size, athletisism and intelligence makes him a perfect candidate for centre back and indeed , with his personality, he also makes a great captain.

Players can grow into roles and Vince aint the fastest player either.

It's all to easy to pick on Garcia , one mistake and he's a clown , or useless. Is Yaya deemed useless for missing a golden chance against CSKA?, no .... he almost got to it!!!! Almost sometimes isn't good enough is it .

[Spurge]

I also have my reservations. My memory of having seen him in the past was not 'wow' - but I was not really looking that closely. I think that he is an OK CB that and clearly Pellegrini must believe he can do a solid CB job and link with the midfield - and is happy to be cover, but I do not think that he is a top CB. I agree he was only purchased at the end of the window because of injuries - not a good sign.

When I see the way Kolo is playing at Liverpool so far then I am not expecting Demichelis to offer more than him and therefore I wish he would have been happy to stay as cover.

Your points are very valid. When Vince came to us he was bought as a defensive midfielder. His passing never was and never will be good enough for that role. His sheer size, athletisism and intelligence makes him a perfect candidate for centre back and indeed , with his personality, he also makes a great captain.

Players can grow into roles and Vince aint the fastest player either.

It's all to easy to pick on Garcia , one mistake and he's a clown , or useless. Is Yaya deemed useless for missing a golden chance against CSKA?, no .... he almost got to it!!!! Almost sometimes isn't good enough is it .

I certainly wouldn't consider myself to be someone who sticks the knife in at the first sign of a sub standard performance by any player and you make some good observations. However for Javi Garcia it's not just one mistake, there have been plenty. He found the pace of the premier league too much in his natural position, to put him at centre back had some logic to it as it's easier to read the game from there, however his lack of positional sense has found him wanting all too often.

So whilst I don't agree with throwing the sort of insults you describe, at the same time it's clear to me that he isn't able to slot in as a centre back and as pointed out we have others such as Lescott and Richards who are natural centre backs who will do a much better job in there (and Boyatta) so for me it's a no brainer.

You use Yaya as an example to compare against and putting it simply he does much more good than he does bad so is not a good example for comparison I'm afraid.

[Slim]

When that CSKA player beat him all ends up late on, it wasn't a mistake, he got beaten by a better player. I am not saying Garcia is a bad player because of mistakes, I am saying he is a bad player because he's just not good enough, not for this side, not for really any side in this league.

I know our level has been raised and it's easy to become a football snob when we have the team we do, but there is one player who stands out like a sore thumb whenever he plays and that's Garcia(not Nastasic, who has his own problems, but there is potential). I'd love for him to 'come good', but even if he eliminates mistakes from his game, his overcommitment to balls he doesn't get, his lack of position awareness and cheap freekicks given in dangerous areas, I am afraid he would still not be quick enough, be out-muscled by smaller players and in short, not be good enough for this team.

[Herb]

It's odd that so many expert fans label Garci as bloody awful yet Mancini often put him in his 1st 11, Pellegrini selects him over JL regularly and he gets called up by Spain who have one of the strongest squads in world football. All those 'know nothing' managers choose to play him - yeah, he must be really shite eh?

[Blue Since 76]

Do not know if that was a response to my post - but if so I really think that you are missing a big aspect of how the game is played in 2013/14. You need to have Goalkeepers that are not just excellent at stopping shots - but can then act to start the game moving from defence. Even more so you need defenders that can, for instance win the header and break up an attack - but increasingly as important link to the M/F and start the attacks. The era of the Lescotts that can do nothing other then pass 5 yards sideways are history. Every Time Lescott has the ball it means that the opposing midfield and defenders have plenty of time to organise before he has worked out in which direction he is going to play the ball for 5 to 10 yards. BTW - not suggesting that Garcia is anything other than a poor CB - just that I understand if Pellers does not see Micah or Joleon as a preferred option. So basically we do not have a satisfactory option - I would criticise Garcia as much as anyone as a CB - but (personal opinion) I can see Micah or Joleon making just as many mistakes.

Whilst I agree you need ball playing centre halves, they need to have the basics of defending to win the ball in the first place to be able to play it. From what he's shown, Garcia has neither the strength, pace, aggression, positioning, tackling or aerial ability to be a defender. He doesn't therefore get much chance to actually pass the ball out anyway unless we're just knocking the ball about a bit. Otherwise you may as well play Nasri or Silva at centre half, as at least they can pass the ball, just don't expect them to win it in the first place.

If he's fit, and it's a big if, Rodwell may be a better bet as the stand in.

As for tomorrow, Maureen happily took a point at the swamp as he obviously didn't think they were good enough to beat the rags (how wrong he was). I suspect he may do the same tomorrow.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

It's odd that so many expert fans label Garci as bloody awful yet Mancini often put him in his 1st 11, Pellegrini selects him over JL regularly and he gets called up by Spain who have one of the strongest squads in world football. All those 'know nothing' managers choose to play him - yeah, he must be really shite eh?

Mancini didn't often pick him after his settling in period.

Pellers is selecting him as 3rd choice, sure ahead of lescott, but realistically he's doing it because his hand has been forced.

As for Spain, don't watch enough to be an expert, but yeah it suprises me. I've always assumed they don't defend that much, certainly not when I'm watching anyway.

[Wonderwall]

It's odd that so many expert fans label Garci as bloody awful yet Mancini often put him in his 1st 11, Pellegrini selects him over JL regularly and he gets called up by Spain who have one of the strongest squads in world football. All those 'know nothing' managers choose to play him - yeah, he must be really shite eh?

Do you watch the games? If so please tell me what you see. Because I am baffled

[Herb]

It's odd that so many expert fans label Garci as bloody awful yet Mancini often put him in his 1st 11, Pellegrini selects him over JL regularly and he gets called up by Spain who have one of the strongest squads in world football. All those 'know nothing' managers choose to play him - yeah, he must be really shite eh?

Do you watch the games? If so please tell me what you see. Because I am baffled

I didn't mention 'what I see' because while I see plenty I don't set myself up as an expert like you do.
What I did point out to your obvious annoyance is that our last manager thought Garcia was good, our current manager thinks Garcia is good and Vincente del Bosque (the bloke who manages the current European and World Champions) thinks Garcia is good . . . but you know better than them so I'm baffled as to how you're not managing a top flight football team - crying shame really to have such a talent going to waste casting pearls to swine on a minority internet forum when it should be taking the game to the next level.

Oh, and as for 'Do I watch the game" - well, I posted a valid factual point not an opinion so you can fuck off having a pop at me because the fact that Mancini, Pellegrini and del Bosque don't care to share your expert view on Garcia isn't my fault so you're well out of order mate.

[Blue Since 76]

I didn't mention 'what I see' because while I see plenty I don't set myself up as an expert like you do. What I did point out to your obvious annoyance is that our last manager thought Garcia was good, our current manager thinks Garcia is good and Vincente del Bosque (the bloke who manages the current European and World Champions) thinks Garcia is good . . . but you know better than them so I'm baffled as to how you're not managing a top flight football team - crying shame really to have such a talent going to waste casting pearls to swine on a minority internet forum when it should be taking the game to the next level. Oh, and as for 'Do I watch the game" - well, I posted a valid factual point not an opinion so you can fuck off having a pop at me because the fact that Mancini, Pellegrini and del Bosque don't care to share your expert view on Garcia isn't my fault so you're well out of order mate.

And yet every TV pundit picks holes in his game as well as the fans.

After his first couple of months, how many times did he start under Mancini? I'd have said he was behind Yaya and Barry and probably Rodwell if he was ever fit.

How many times has he started for Pellegrini as a first choice? The current problem is that Pellegrini hasn't worked out that a ball playing mard arse centre half is a chocolate fire guard in England, whereas he may have looked ok doing that in Spain. Once one team spots a weakness, they all go for it as Moscow did. If he plays tomorrow, I'll be amazed if Chelsea don't hit high balls in his direction for Torres, Eto and the midfielders to pressure him with.

So far he has contributed the square root of fuck all to City. That's not to say he's a bad player, although I suspect he is, but just going off what we've all seen on the pitch.

Of maybe Pellegrini gets nothing wrong and Honda is renowned for his aerial prowess.

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

With the news that Kompany is out tomorrow clearly that porous looking back line is the biggest problem for Pellegrini to address.
In many ways both sides will likely play into each other's hands with Chelsea preferring to play on the counter and City looking to dominate possession and it's set up to be a much better game than last years corresponding fixture when Rafa spoilt the game with his mustn't lose ethos.
Be interesting to see who comes out on top of Fernandinho and Ramires for the watching Brazilian coach as both look to show their World Cup credentials.After a slow start Fernandinho is really finding his feet and his partnership with Yaya is getting better by the game,they will be crucial tomorrow in shielding the back 4 from the impressive Chelsea midfield.

If Garcia is persevered with at centre back then Richards and Milner,who I expect to start on the right, need to be very aware to cover his lack of pace and I suspect it's an area that mourinho will be keen to target.Whoever gets the nod there,be it a very left footed Lescott & Nastasic partnership or Demichellis/Richards with zabaleta at right back it's going to be far less secure than it would've been with Vinnie there.

Considering all the plaudits that Arsenal have received this season so far,it's actually Chelsea who have impressed me more,mourinho appears to have whetted Torres appetite and they look like they are ticking now.
Would take a draw without question
On the virgin train at 10-30 to Euston in the morning,anyone else heading to the. bridge?
Preferred line up
Hart
Zabaleta Richards Nastasic Clichy
Milner yaya Fernandinho
Aguero Silva
Negredo