Lescott

[carl_feedthegoat]

The way some fo you lot go on about lescott you would think we would be fucked without him.....as it happens we have won nearly everything in front of us since the beginning of November and he wasn't even fuckign playing for the most part , so that puts that to bed on how important he is to us.

I agree Nasty isn't the answer...but neither is Lescott.

[Slim]

Okay Carl, who would you bring in? Unless you think Demi and Boyata are the answer, which I doubt.

[dazby]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, you've gone too far with the Nastasic hate. He isn't that bad. He is going to be a quality player. He needs more developing.

[dazby]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, you've gone too far with the Nastasic hate. He isn't that bad. He is going to be a quality player. He needs more developing.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, you've gone too far with the Nastasic hate. He isn't that bad. He is going to be a quality player. He needs more developing.

Agree with your 1st post but not your 2nd. :)


The problem is nobody knows how people will develop. My main gripe with him is his lack of any one outstanding quality to make me feel better about waiting for the rest to catch up or accepting the compromise.

[aaron bond]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, you've gone too far with the Nastasic hate. He isn't that bad. He is going to be a quality player. He needs more developing.

Agree with your 1st post but not your 2nd. :)


The problem is nobody knows how people will develop. My main gripe with him is his lack of any one outstanding quality to make me feel better about waiting for the rest to catch up or accepting the compromise.

This is my issue with him.

People have been saying he's going to be this, he's going to be that...but he has shown nothing at all to suggest he will become a top player. We spent a fortune on him so obviously I want him to do well. But when you have a defender who can't head the ball, has no positional awareness, is hopeless in one-on-one situations and gives away needless free kicks in dangerous areas, you're not left with much else.

If he had played like he did last night and it was his debut or one of his first games for us, then I could understand. But he's been playing regularly now for 18 months and has shown no improvement, perhaps even getting worse.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, you've gone too far with the Nastasic hate. He isn't that bad. He is going to be a quality player. He needs more developing.

Also, when Lescott comes on after not having played for a long time he's rusty and needs game time before he hits his stride. When nasty comes on after being away for a while he's just shite, shite and shite. In summary. Now if you want a summary of the striker debate you have to pay me.

[Cocacolajojo1]

If he had played like he did last night and it was his debut or one of his first games for us, then I could understand. But he's been playing regularly now for 18 months and has shown no improvement, perhaps even getting worse.

He's been out injured though mate, people tend to get rusty after not having played for a while. I don't know if he really was that bad yesterday as you say though.

Without him that spare-part Nastacic would be lost, all he does is avoid responsibility and pass (slowly) to either the other CB or the goalie.

All centre backs pass the ball forward, they seem to have been instructed to do so. Kompany does it, Lescott does it, Demi does it and Nasty does it. To suggest that Nasty doesn't pass the ball forward and only passes slowly sideways is to really reveal that you have no capability of having a sensible opinion. Great stuff mate.

[aaron bond]

If he had played like he did last night and it was his debut or one of his first games for us, then I could understand. But he's been playing regularly now for 18 months and has shown no improvement, perhaps even getting worse.

He's been out injured though mate, people tend to get rusty after not having played for a while. I don't know if he really was that bad yesterday as you say though.

Fair point regarding the injury, and I can cut him some slack for that. But as his performances are almost always pretty poor for us, how he played last night wasn't really any different. At least with Lescott, he has demonstrated that given a run of games, he is a very good player, so if he's rusty in his first game back, I know his performances will improve with a run in the side. With Nastasic, that's not likely to happen.

He didn't really make any mistakes in the second half last night, but in the first half he gave away a stupid free kick in a dangerous position because he doesn't know what to do when a player runs at him. He does things like that in every game, and it's not good enough for a team of our ambition.

For the record, I still believe we need to buy another centre back. 4 centre backs of Kompany, a new player, Lescott and Demichelis is fine with me. Nastasic is just the person who should make way for the new player.

[Cocacolajojo1]

We paid an embarrassing amount for a really poor player in Nastasic, and if we could fool a club out there into taking him from us then we should make it happen.

I've seen this statement of yours called a couple of times to no avail but I'm gonna try once for myself.

According to transfermarkt, one of the best sites for gathering information on players statistics and actual transfer worth during transfers (I can't say I understand how they value players during seasons and when not being transferred but I'm not using that statistic here so it's a moot question though), Nastasic cost 13 000 000 Euros when we bought him with Savic going the other way for 8 000 000 Euros.

He cost 5 million euros.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/stefan-savic/transfers/spieler_107010_778253.html
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/matija-nastasic/transfers/spieler_143559_778254.html

[Cocacolajojo1]

Fair point regarding the injury, and I can cut him some slack for that. But as his performances are almost always pretty poor for us, how he played last night wasn't really any different. At least with Lescott, he has demonstrated that given a run of games, he is a very good player, so if he's rusty in his first game back, I know his performances will improve with a run in the side. With Nastasic, that's not likely to happen.

He didn't really make any mistakes in the second half last night, but in the first half he gave away a stupid free kick in a dangerous position because he doesn't know what to do when a player runs at him. He does things like that in every game, and it's not good enough for a team of our ambition.

For the record, I still believe we need to buy another centre back. 4 centre backs of Kompany, a new player, Lescott and Demichelis is fine with me. Nastasic is just the person who should make way for the new player.

Fair points. It was a very bad tackle and it was actually a double whammy where he first didn't contain the player running at him and then hacked him down. I don't know if that is indeed what we see of him every time he plays but you can't defend that type of... well... defending. It's not something we want to see out of him regurarly.

Also, I think we'll see both of them go in the near future. Perhaps Pellegrini might persist with Nasty a bit longer but I think it's inevitable that both will move on regardless of what their qualities might be. It's sad though, because out of the four at the back Demi is the one I don't really see the point of having in the squad, at least as a centre back.

[Mase]

I've seen this statement of yours called a couple of times to no avail but I'm gonna try once for myself. According to transfermarkt, one of the best sites for gathering information on players statistics and actual transfer worth during transfers (I can't say I understand how they value players during seasons and when not being transferred but I'm not using that statistic here so it's a moot question though), Nastasic cost 13 000 000 Euros when we bought him with Savic going the other way for 8 000 000 Euros. He cost 5 million euros. [url="http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/stefan-savic/transfers/spieler_107010_778253.html"]http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/stefan-savic/transfers/spieler_107010_778253.html[/url] [url="http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/matija-nastasic/transfers/spieler_143559_778254.html"]http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/matija-nastasic/transfers/spieler_143559_778254.html[/url]

I'm glad you pointed that out. We paid hardly anything for him compared to other players, plus we got rid of Savic.

[aaron bond]

We paid an embarrassing amount for a really poor player in Nastasic, and if we could fool a club out there into taking him from us then we should make it happen.

I've seen this statement of yours called a couple of times to no avail but I'm gonna try once for myself.

According to transfermarkt, one of the best sites for gathering information on players statistics and actual transfer worth during transfers (I can't say I understand how they value players during seasons and when not being transferred but I'm not using that statistic here so it's a moot question though), Nastasic cost 13 000 000 Euros when we bought him with Savic going the other way for 8 000 000 Euros.

He cost 5 million euros.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/stefan-savic/transfers/spieler_107010_778253.html
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/matija-nastasic/transfers/spieler_143559_778254.html

From what I can tell, that website says we paid £10.560M for Savic and £13.376M for Nastasic - 2 figures which I've not seen anywhere written anywhere so not sure if that website is too trustworthy. Admittedly it's difficult to get genuine figures as most transfers these days are 'undisclosed'.

But most sources at the time suggested we paid £6-7M for Savic, and then £12M for Nastasic. Even if you deducted the fee for Savic from the £12m paid to Fiorentina, we still had to pay the £6-7m for Savic in the first place. So, Nastasic still essentially cost us around £12m. Also, whether Savic was still valued at £6-7m when we sold him after his disastrous season with us is another thing.

After spending that sort of money, we deserve a far better player than the one we have.

Whatever the cost, we have him now and there isn't any sign of us letting him go this January. If there is no improvement by the summer, which is extremely unlikely in my opinion, then he should be moved on in the summer.

[john@staustell]

Lescott was truly appalling, Nastasic worse - he seems the only player to regress under Pellegrini - and as for Clichy - dont even get me started.

But it's good we can still keep clean sheets with that lot and the giant behind them, miraculous maybe.

Anyone who was touting either of these CBs ahead of Demichelis has serious issues.

[Cocacolajojo1]

From what I can tell, that website says we paid £10.560M for Savic and £13.376M for Nastasic - 2 figures which I've not seen anywhere written anywhere so not sure if that website is too trustworthy. Admittedly it's difficult to get genuine figures as most transfers these days are 'undisclosed'.

But most sources at the time suggested we paid £6-7M for Savic, and then £12M for Nastasic. Even if you deducted the fee for Savic from the £12m paid to Fiorentina, we still had to pay the £6-7m for Savic in the first place. So, Nastasic still essentially cost us around £12m. Also, whether Savic was still valued at £6-7m when we sold him after his disastrous season with us is another thing.

After spending that sort of money, we deserve a far better player than the one we have.

I can see where you're coming from mate but I don't think it's solid to count the way you do. You can't add the value of the purchase of the player we had on the same position before, because that player would then be worth what we paid for him plus the player we had on that position before him, and so on all the way back to our first purchase of a striker ever.

It seems I misunderstood the numbers on that site though as it was a free transfer it seems. Sorry about that. This means that Nastasic did cost 13 million euros as there was no fee going the other way for Savic. Soz.

[aaron bond]

From what I can tell, that website says we paid £10.560M for Savic and £13.376M for Nastasic - 2 figures which I've not seen anywhere written anywhere so not sure if that website is too trustworthy. Admittedly it's difficult to get genuine figures as most transfers these days are 'undisclosed'.

But most sources at the time suggested we paid £6-7M for Savic, and then £12M for Nastasic. Even if you deducted the fee for Savic from the £12m paid to Fiorentina, we still had to pay the £6-7m for Savic in the first place. So, Nastasic still essentially cost us around £12m. Also, whether Savic was still valued at £6-7m when we sold him after his disastrous season with us is another thing.

After spending that sort of money, we deserve a far better player than the one we have.

I can see where you're coming from mate but I don't think it's solid to count the way you do. You can't add the value of the purchase of the player we had on the same position before, because that player would then be worth what we paid for him plus the player we had on that position before him, and so on all the way back to our first purchase of a striker ever.

It seems I misunderstood the numbers on that site though as it was a free transfer it seems. Sorry about that. This means that Nastasic did cost 13 million euros as there was no fee going the other way for Savic. Soz.

My inclusion of Savic in the Nastasic number wasn't because he played in the same position, it was because he moved there as part of the deal, i.e. Nastasic = A fee + Savic

But anyway, that's moving away from our original discussion :-)

I think we're agreed that the club will be looking to bring in at least one new centre back. Whether we can get anyone in January who is both good enough, and not at a ridiculous fee, is another thing.

[Dubciteh]

Lescott was truly appalling, Nastasic worse - he seems the only player to regress under Pellegrini - and as for Clichy - dont even get me started.

But it's good we can still keep clean sheets with that lot and the giant behind them, miraculous maybe.

Anyone who was touting either of these CBs ahead of Demichelis has serious issues.

I guess i have serious issues then and also lescott was not seriously appalling.

Nastasic was terrible but that doesnt surprise me, he was at fault in the second half too when Pants made a good save at two nil.

I thought we paid 12m plus savic for him, either way we paid way too much for both him and savic, both are a couple of mill pound defenders for me. I would take a drunk richard dunne over both them for the past couple of years!

[Ted Hughes]

As there have been suggestions I have labelled Nastasic as 'shit' I would like to clarify: Nastasic is 20 years old (21 in March).

If he's the same player at 22 as he is now, then he will indeed be 'shit'imo & in fact as bad as Savic, but he is only 20 & could still get better. Savic was older.

He has occasional spells in games when he suddenly wakes up & starts defending like a proper player, then goes back to doing his usual fuck all.

Now even Stuart Brennan, a long time Lescott hater, has marked him below Lescott probably for the first time ever, yet he was no different last night; it's always been like that. Now it's more obvious because we are more 'open' than under Mancini, but every player to run at Nastasic has skinned him at some point (even Connor Wickham) & most players who challenge him for headers have got free ones at some point.

He is no worse now than he was when he first came into the team though & still has 'potential'. The difference then was the alliance of Lescott haters & Mancini's God squad, meant that it was a crime to question Nastasic, ( & crime to question Mancini) I was just being 'bitter' if I mentioned it so I only mentioned about 10% of his fuckups. Young players fuck up though.

I have always thought Nastasic has some potential, but I prefer cbs who are great in the air, tough to beat on the ground & preferably very fast, as well as reading the game. Lescott & Vinny have most of those qualities but not pace same with Demichelis (slower). Nastasic, to be as good as them, has a lot of improving to do & a lot of John Terry style tricks to learn, as he isn't the same physically as the others. Imo, one more season we should start to see that improvement, if not, get rid. In the meantime, he should be fourth choice & learn his trade.

We have all this to look forward to again if/when Rekik arrives back at the club as Nastasic IS Bobby Moore compared to him.

Another year of "you can't blame the lad for.." "He's only 12....ffs, give him a break" "Oh you just don't like young players" etc.

Sigh.

[mr_nool]

As there have been suggestions I have labelled Nastasic as 'shit' I would like to clarify: Nastasic is 20 years old (21 in March).

If he's the same player at 22 as he is now, then he will indeed be 'shit'imo & in fact as bad as Savic, but he is only 20 & could still get better. Savic was older.

He has occasional spells in games when he suddenly wakes up & starts defending like a proper player, then goes back to doing his usual fuck all.

Now even Stuart Brennan, a long time Lescott hater, has marked him below Lescott probably for the first time ever, yet he was no different last night; it's always been like that. Now it's more obvious because we are more 'open' than under Mancini, but every player to run at Nastasic has skinned him at some point (even Connor Wickham) & most players who challenge him for headers have got free ones at some point.

He is no worse now than he was when he first came into the team though & still has 'potential'. The difference then was the alliance of Lescott haters & Mancini's God squad, meant that it was a crime to question Nastasic, ( & crime to question Mancini) I was just being 'bitter' if I mentioned it so I only mentioned about 10% of his fuckups. Young players fuck up though.

I have always thought Nastasic has some potential, but I prefer cbs who are great in the air, tough to beat on the ground & preferably very fast, as well as reading the game. Lescott & Vinny have most of those qualities but not pace same with Demichelis (slower). Nastasic, to be as good as them, has a lot of improving to do & a lot of John Terry style tricks to learn, as he isn't the same physically as the others. Imo, one more season we should start to see that improvement, if not, get rid. In the meantime, he should be fourth choice & learn his trade.

We have all this to look forward to again if/when Rekik arrives back at the club as Nastasic IS Bobby Moore compared to him.

Another year of "you can't blame the lad for.." "He's only 12....ffs, give him a break" "Oh you just don't like young players" etc.

Sigh.

Word!

[Cocacolajojo1]

As there have been suggestions I have labelled Nastasic as 'shit' I would like to clarify: Nastasic is 20 years old (21 in March).

If he's the same player at 22 as he is now, then he will indeed be 'shit'imo & in fact as bad as Savic, but he is only 20 & could still get better. Savic was older.

He has occasional spells in games when he suddenly wakes up & starts defending like a proper player, then goes back to doing his usual fuck all.

Now even Stuart Brennan, a long time Lescott hater, has marked him below Lescott probably for the first time ever, yet he was no different last night; it's always been like that. Now it's more obvious because we are more 'open' than under Mancini, but every player to run at Nastasic has skinned him at some point (even Connor Wickham) & most players who challenge him for headers have got free ones at some point.

He is no worse now than he was when he first came into the team though & still has 'potential'. The difference then was the alliance of Lescott haters & Mancini's God squad, meant that it was a crime to question Nastasic, ( & crime to question Mancini) I was just being 'bitter' if I mentioned it so I only mentioned about 10% of his fuckups. Young players fuck up though.

I have always thought Nastasic has some potential, but I prefer cbs who are great in the air, tough to beat on the ground & preferably very fast, as well as reading the game. Lescott & Vinny have most of those qualities but not pace same with Demichelis (slower). Nastasic, to be as good as them, has a lot of improving to do & a lot of John Terry style tricks to learn, as he isn't the same physically as the others. Imo, one more season we should start to see that improvement, if not, get rid. In the meantime, he should be fourth choice & learn his trade.

We have all this to look forward to again if/when Rekik arrives back at the club as Nastasic IS Bobby Moore compared to him.

Another year of "you can't blame the lad for.." "He's only 12....ffs, give him a break" "Oh you just don't like young players" etc.

Sigh.

Word!

You guys hate children. If it were up to you humanity would perish.