FA Cup

[Dunne's Half-Time Pint]

If someone offered you 100 million pounds (or the cure for world hunger) to run a marathon tomorrow in under 2 1/2 hours, could you do it?

Not a fair comparison imo unless Sparklehorse has been training professionally towards it for the past ten years.

Of course it's not as black and white as this either way but I have to say I do wonder a bit is players' fitness really as high as it could be. Five years ago I would've been sure it could be better and they're just lazy bastards, but with all the technology and fitness coaches our club uses these days I'm not sure how much more can b done

It's not a comparison (you whopper), it's an illustration of a really basic point:

Incentive is completely irrelevant if you're not physically capable of something.

[nottsblue]

I want to see the strongest team possible. I don't care that we're tired or a few players down.
Winning breeds confidence and is a habit. Going into Barca game having beaten Chelsea 3-0 and getting the feel good factor back will do far more good for our chances than going in having seen a bit-part side taken apart 3-0. Also Chelsea are on a bit of a roll and denting their confidence will knock them down a peg.

How many times have we seen Arsenal go out of one competition, then before we know it they've been knocked out of all 4, end up finishing 4th and winning diddly squat? Losing games is not a habit I want us to get into and for those reasons, strongest line up please.
Furthermore, if we beat Chelsea, then the only 'big' teams left will be Liverpool/Arsenal and Everton, presenting us with a good chance of winning another trophy.

Good post. Agree with virtually all of it especially about winning being a habit and carrying momentum into the Barca game. Also the fact if we do beat Chelsea we are probably favs for the cup as not many top sides left in.

If we had a full squad to choose from I'd be in complete agreement. But we haven't and unfortunately at the moment i'd put League cup and Prem as priorities, followed by Champs league and FA cup next.

[Wonderwall]

I want to see the strongest team possible. I don't care that we're tired or a few players down.
Winning breeds confidence and is a habit. Going into Barca game having beaten Chelsea 3-0 and getting the feel good factor back will do far more good for our chances than going in having seen a bit-part side taken apart 3-0. Also Chelsea are on a bit of a roll and denting their confidence will knock them down a peg.

How many times have we seen Arsenal go out of one competition, then before we know it they've been knocked out of all 4, end up finishing 4th and winning diddly squat? Losing games is not a habit I want us to get into and for those reasons, strongest line up please.
Furthermore, if we beat Chelsea, then the only 'big' teams left will be Liverpool/Arsenal and Everton, presenting us with a good chance of winning another trophy.

Good post. Agree with virtually all of it especially about winning being a habit and carrying momentum into the Barca game. Also the fact if we do beat Chelsea we are probably favs for the cup as not many top sides left in.

If we had a full squad to choose from I'd be in complete agreement. But we haven't and unfortunately at the moment i'd put League cup and Prem as priorities, followed by Champs league and FA cup next.

we have more chance of winning the FA cup than the Champions league. Nobody has ever won the domestic treble. I think we have the squad capable of it, I don't think we are ready to win the champions league, we should give it our best shot, but we should not rest players against Chelsea in preparation for it.

[Beefymcfc]

Are we really comparing football players who are on multi-million pound contracts to those men and women in the services who put their life on the line for an annual wage that equates to approximately a fifth of one of our players weekly wage?

It's not just about fitness, it's also about mental fortitude alongside the moral component. Some things will just drive you on but I wouldn't put winning a game alongside saving the lives of your brothers in arms.

Staggering.

[Dunne's Half-Time Pint]

Are we really comparing football players who are on multi-million pound contracts to those men and women in the services who put their life on the line for an annual wage that equates to approximately a fifth of one of our players weekly wage?

It's not just about fitness, it's also about mental fortitude alongside the moral component. Some things will just drive you on but I wouldn't put winning a game alongside saving the lives of your brothers in arms.

Staggering.

If by "we" you mean Rodney. And by "comparing" you mean saying that the soldiers are fitter and stronger (mentally and physically).

Apart from the irrelevance, what's staggering about that?

[nottsblue]

I want to see the strongest team possible. I don't care that we're tired or a few players down.
Winning breeds confidence and is a habit. Going into Barca game having beaten Chelsea 3-0 and getting the feel good factor back will do far more good for our chances than going in having seen a bit-part side taken apart 3-0. Also Chelsea are on a bit of a roll and denting their confidence will knock them down a peg.

How many times have we seen Arsenal go out of one competition, then before we know it they've been knocked out of all 4, end up finishing 4th and winning diddly squat? Losing games is not a habit I want us to get into and for those reasons, strongest line up please.
Furthermore, if we beat Chelsea, then the only 'big' teams left will be Liverpool/Arsenal and Everton, presenting us with a good chance of winning another trophy.

Good post. Agree with virtually all of it especially about winning being a habit and carrying momentum into the Barca game. Also the fact if we do beat Chelsea we are probably favs for the cup as not many top sides left in.

If we had a full squad to choose from I'd be in complete agreement. But we haven't and unfortunately at the moment i'd put League cup and Prem as priorities, followed by Champs league and FA cup next.

we have more chance of winning the FA cup than the Champions league. Nobody has ever won the domestic treble. I think we have the squad capable of it, I don't think we are ready to win the champions league, we should give it our best shot, but we should not rest players against Chelsea in preparation for it.

Again, agree with the sentiment that much as we'd love to beat Barca and progress in Champs league, we have more chance of glory in FA cup. Just think with squad stretched to bursting at present we have to prioritise. As we are already in a final, for me, that is priority. Not suggesting for one second we don't try or throw FA cup game but i don't think it's worth risking playing our best eleven. Couple of the players look tired and lethargic and weeks rest would do world of good. Would love to dump the 'special needs one' out of cup but at what cost?

Think we are more likely to see strong side v Sunderland tomorrow as it really will be a must win game if, as expected, Chelsea beat WBA

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Good post. Agree with virtually all of it especially about winning being a habit and carrying momentum into the Barca game. Also the fact if we do beat Chelsea we are probably favs for the cup as not many top sides left in.

If we had a full squad to choose from I'd be in complete agreement. But we haven't and unfortunately at the moment i'd put League cup and Prem as priorities, followed by Champs league and FA cup next.

The key factors are confidence and momentum. If we play a weak side against Chelsea and get beat, then we could find ourselves being beat by Barcelona, our heads will drop and before we know it we'll be out of both the Fa Cup and Champions League and 6/7 points behind in the title race.
It's happened to Arsenal, remember when they were talked about as potential quadruple winners a few years back? Within about 3 weeks, they lost in the Fa Cup to the rags, lost the League Cup final to Birmingham, went out the CL to Milan (I think) and fell behind in the title race. It could happen to us if we make losing a habit. The season could get away from us in a blink of an eye if we're not careful.
Give it our best shot v Chelsea, win that and get some confidence heading into the Barca game and subsequent league games.
In a way this game could have a defining impact on not just the Fa Cup but the other competitions too.

[nottsblue]

The key factors are confidence and momentum. If we play a weak side against Chelsea and get beat, then we could find ourselves being beat by Barcelona, our heads will drop and before we know it we'll be out of both the Fa Cup and Champions League and 6/7 points behind in the title race.
It's happened to Arsenal, remember when they were talked about as potential quadruple winners a few years back? Within about 3 weeks, they lost in the Fa Cup to the rags, lost the League Cup final to Birmingham, went out the CL to Milan (I think) and fell behind in the title race. It could happen to us if we make losing a habit. The season could get away from us in a blink of an eye if we're not careful.
Give it our best shot v Chelsea, win that and get some confidence heading into the Barca game and subsequent league games.
In a way this game could have a defining impact on not just the Fa Cup but the other competitions too.

What if we played a full side and got beat. Even less confidence going into Barca game. What if our thinly stretched squad picked up another injury or suspension? Players who are tired are more likely to get injured. To be fair i'm not suggesting we play the EDS boys, but i'd advocate giving likes of Silva, Yaya, Beast and Navas a rest.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

The key factors are confidence and momentum. If we play a weak side against Chelsea and get beat, then we could find ourselves being beat by Barcelona, our heads will drop and before we know it we'll be out of both the Fa Cup and Champions League and 6/7 points behind in the title race.
It's happened to Arsenal, remember when they were talked about as potential quadruple winners a few years back? Within about 3 weeks, they lost in the Fa Cup to the rags, lost the League Cup final to Birmingham, went out the CL to Milan (I think) and fell behind in the title race. It could happen to us if we make losing a habit. The season could get away from us in a blink of an eye if we're not careful.
Give it our best shot v Chelsea, win that and get some confidence heading into the Barca game and subsequent league games.
In a way this game could have a defining impact on not just the Fa Cup but the other competitions too.

What if we played a full side and got beat. Even less confidence going into Barca game. What if our thinly stretched squad picked up another injury or suspension? Players who are tired are more likely to get injured. To be fair i'm not suggesting we play the EDS boys, but i'd advocate giving likes of Silva, Yaya, Beast and Navas a rest.

We can't think like that. We play our best side and they give it their best shot. If they get beat, they get beat but I'd rather get beat knowing we'd given it everything, then go out because we've played a reserve side.
We have to be confident. We can beat them and it would give everyone a boost if we did. Had we beaten them last week and gone clear at the top then i'd say maybe you are right but we didn't. We can't let Chelsea get another one over us.
We need this.

[Hutch's Shoulder]

Strongest team v Sunderland then think about the cups

[Sparklehorse]

This, all day long as well as previous comment about wining breeds confidence. Dont want Barca to rock up on Tuesday with our last game a loss coz we thought we would save our best for them - that's nonsense. Win on Sat and the mood and confidence will be a lot higher than a loss.

hear hear !!

[Twobob]

I'm sure you would. I imagine - assuming that you're in decent shape, work out etc. - that you'd be at somewhere between the 10 and 20 mile mark after that amount of time. Which would mean that despite your very best efforts and the rewards on offer, your body would only allow you to do about 1/2 to 2/3 of what was necessary to take home the big fat sack of cash. In football, against Chelsea and Barcelona, 1/2 to 2/3 of the required performance level is not enough to win. As someone else said, the margins are very fine indeed and even though the players will be (more or less) in peak condition and up fot it, it's very doubtful that their bodies will let them perform at 100% for 90 minutes 3 times in 7 days (or whatever). In fact, it's certain. It amazes me that I still hear this shit from people who watch football regularly really - it should be an absolute given that too many games too close together has an effect on results (no matter how much they're paid).

Spot on mate, if both teams for each game had played the same amount of high intensity football , not Sunday league, then it would not be an issue.

As you quite rightly said, a full team playing at two thirds fitness will begin to lose concentration and pace throughout the 2nd half. We like ti start with a fast tempo so you'd also see mistakes hitting in even before half time in my opinion.

The comparisons to fighting forces are old hat and frustrating , a footballers life is not on the line as far as i know - some chaps need to give their heads a wobble.

[Moonchesteri]

Personally however I'd play full strength team one game at a time, using subs to rest players, if possible. Not sure if the count agrees but we'll find out soon enough

[Sparklehorse]

What I'm driving at is that only two weeks ago we were thinking and others were saying that City are a very special team indeed. One pundit even went as far as to say we are probably the best team on the planet at the moment. I don't agree with that but with our strongest eleven we'll take some beating.

Without Nasri and Aguero for half the game against Totenham and yet we looked like world beaters. No sign of fatigue, the important players subbed so they didn't even play 90 mins. Five days later we play Chelsea and we didn't play particularly well despite having 65% possession and more efforts on goal. Chelsea were just more efficient against a team with pretty much no midfield.

A struggle against Norwich and all of a sudden we're tired and jaded and players need resting and all that garbage. We are talking about men in their prime of fitness being asked to perform for 90 mins every three or four days. This is nothing, the only reason they look tired is because their confidence took a severe denting. If we score two goals in the first 15 mins against Sunderland I will guarantee you that we'll be running around like gazelles looking as sharp as razors again. I just don't buy this tired business its all about confidence.

[Tim777]

What I'm driving at is that only two weeks ago we were thinking and others were saying that City are a very special team indeed. One pundit even went as far as to say we are probably the best team on the planet at the moment. I don't agree with that but with our strongest eleven we'll take some beating.

Without Nasri and Aguero for half the game against Totenham and yet we looked like world beaters. No sign of fatigue, the important players subbed so they didn't even play 90 mins. Five days later we play Chelsea and we didn't play particularly well despite having 65% possession and more efforts on goal. Chelsea were just more efficient against a team with pretty much no midfield.

A struggle against Norwich and all of a sudden we're tired and jaded and players need resting and all that garbage. We are talking about men in their prime of fitness being asked to perform for 90 mins every three or four days. This is nothing, the only reason they look tired is because their confidence took a severe denting. If we score two goals in the first 15 mins against Sunderland I will guarantee you that we'll be running around like gazelles looking as sharp as razors again. I just don't buy this tired business its all about confidence.

Agreed.

[Twobob]

What I'm driving at is that only two weeks ago we were thinking and others were saying that City are a very special team indeed. One pundit even went as far as to say we are probably the best team on the planet at the moment. I don't agree with that but with our strongest eleven we'll take some beating. Without Nasri and Aguero for half the game against Totenham and yet we looked like world beaters. No sign of fatigue, the important players subbed so they didn't even play 90 mins. Five days later we play Chelsea and we didn't play particularly well despite having 65% possession and more efforts on goal. Chelsea were just more efficient against a team with pretty much no midfield. A struggle against Norwich and all of a sudden we're tired and jaded and players need resting and all that garbage. We are talking about men in their prime of fitness being asked to perform for 90 mins every three or four days. This is nothing, the only reason they look tired is because their confidence took a severe denting. If we score two goals in the first 15 mins against Sunderland I will guarantee you that we'll be running around like gazelles looking as sharp as razors again. I just don't buy this tired business its all about confidence.

Fully appreciate what you are saying, the way Chelsea set up we would have had that level of possession but we did little with it, made very silly mistakes and had about 2 shots actually on target.

It was very similar against Norwich.

Confidence obviously plays a part - but thats up to the manager and we've lost games before and not looked as lack-luster up front as we did against Norwich.

We have players apparently playing with injuries or coming back from injury and this would play a part.

It's a combination of affects but we have a squad of players to spread the load of games so when do we use them?

[clawbaggio]

we have more chance of winning the FA cup than the Champions league. Nobody has ever won the domestic treble. I think we have the squad capable of it, I don't think we are ready to win the champions league, we should give it our best shot, but we should not rest players against Chelsea in preparation for it.

Totally agree. Maureen's far too smug and gobby at the moment and needs bringing down a peg or two.
If we beat them in the cup it could knock the wind out of their sails.
Also then getting to the business end of the FA cup. Only 1 game away from getting a semi on!

[Sparklehorse]

Fully appreciate what you are saying, the way Chelsea set up we would have had that level of possession but we did little with it, made very silly mistakes and had about 2 shots actually on target. It was very similar against Norwich. Confidence obviously plays a part - but thats up to the manager and we've lost games before and not looked as lack-luster up front as we did against Norwich. We have players apparently playing with injuries or coming back from injury and this would play a part. It's a combination of affects but we have a squad of players to spread the load of games so when do we use them?

i believe we put out the best possible team we can every time and not sacrifice any competition in the foolish belief that we can pick and choose which to be successful in, because sport doesn't work like that as history will tell us !!!
If the manager is as good as i think he is, and lets face it we have raised the quality bar to new heights in the premiership this season, then we should be gunning for all trophies available to us. We may not win them all but we must try. Just imagine if we did win the quadruple, with nowhere to go I'd just have to go and support Chester City or the Swans or Carmarthen Town ffs !!!

[RodneyRodney]

I really can't see how fatigue can be an excuse ; to me , it's not.
The Marines, the Paras, the SAS,SBS and so on routinely have to meet physical and mental/emotional demands like a 15-20 hr non-stop, cross country march in sub-zero or desert heat temperatures, lugging 40-odd kg of gear, THEN be prepared to fight real/simulated battles making clear-headed split second decisions which can affect life/death or the outcome of an engagement , campaign, or conflict.

THEN clean their weapons thoroughly, read maps , assess intel reports, assess supplies/ammo ; it's too dark, I'm too hot, I'm too cold, I'm too knackered - tough shit - mistakes not allowed.

THEN march another 15-20 hrs , and do it all again.

No nice cushy heated/aircon bus to ride home in . No smick 6 bedroom pad in Alderley Edge to go back to. No physios and ice baths and gentle warm-downs.

Some of these players make more in a WEEK than the above services make in a year . Fatigue my arse .

Now is the time to EARN IT !!

In your war games world, if the SAS had your 20 hour march over broken glass whilst carrying an obese rhino on their back, knowing they had the same return trip but in the middle had to play paintball against an SBS unit who had spent a week relaxing and discussing tactics, knowing they had a trip to a luxury resort the following week, who do you think would win? Or at least have an advantage?

Would it help the SAS if we paid them an extra fiver a week?

The SAS - if they were playing at Old Trafford