ched evans

[Beefymcfc]

I've not really followed this, has he been cleared?

[Im_Spartacus]

As far as I was aware, she was drunk and/or passed out and he had sex with her.

She doesn't deny this, he doesn't deny this.

His defence in the first trial was he debated the definition of what constitutes rape. You know you're on a winner when your entire defence is the wording of the law.

I guarantee that without his money and high profile, the review commission doesn't spend 10 months on an investigation to quash a conviction when the time has already been served. And without the decision being overturned, he doesn't play another minute as a footballer. Funny how Chesterfield were in for him the second the verdict was changed.

The problem is, the case for the prosecution also boiled down to the definition of rape because she claimed she couldn't remember. It's an awful case for either side to prove, and his guilt seemed to be determined solely by the fact he was a 'predatory' rich young man rather than the actual evidence

It was a very very strange case, all the moreso given Clayton's outcome. In reality, there is a considerable doubt on just how drunk she actually was (including CCTV evidence that refutes the suggestion she could hardly stand up), so there were enough alarm bells in this case not least about the 'victim's social media and other activity after the event, to have raised enough of a question about whether he was guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

I just find the whole thing really odd, and nobody really has come out of it well.

[kinsey]

This whole case is really a sordid, sorry tale.

I have been in some situations down the years that I would be mortified to have broken down and analysed in a courtroom - and as a consequence, in the court of public opinion and commentary.

That said, all parties involved are adults and I believe that there is a difference between regretting a situation after the event and being complicit before hand.

In relation to his side of it - and apologies for being crude - but why would you want to be with an unconscious bag of spuds? Isn't sex better when there are two active participants?

In relation to the case itself, my understanding of this (based upon comments from someone I know who was professionally involved in the case) boils down to the question "why was one convicted and the other not?" Was it because the evidence was different or was it because critical questions have to be asked of the legal team?

In case anyone thinks otherwise, whilst I have some sympathy for Evans , I think he was a nobhead for putting himself in that position - nobody did it for him. But I have more sympathy for the girl involved. Again, she has a lot of questions to ask of herself, but the way this case has spiralled and gone on and on, I just feel that in many ways, she has paid a bigger price for this than anyone.

Sometimes in law, nobody wins.

[Mase]

In case anyone thinks otherwise, whilst I have some sympathy for Evans , I think he was a nobhead for putting himself in that position - nobody did it for him. But I have more sympathy for the girl involved. Again, she has a lot of questions to ask of herself, but the way this case has spiralled and gone on and on, I just feel that in many ways, she has paid a bigger price for this than anyone.

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

[kinsey]

In case anyone thinks otherwise, whilst I have some sympathy for Evans , I think he was a nobhead for putting himself in that position - nobody did it for him. But I have more sympathy for the girl involved. Again, she has a lot of questions to ask of herself, but the way this case has spiralled and gone on and on, I just feel that in many ways, she has paid a bigger price for this than anyone.

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

Having a little knowledge of the case, I am happy to stand by my comment - he was a nobhead. I expect he would say the same! Although you are right, being a nobhead shouldn't necessarily result in a rape charge.

Please read again what I wrote about her - I said in MANY ways, not EVERY way. Do you think she has not paid ANY price for all of this? Do you honestly believe that she has been able to "get on with the rest of her life"? What the hell are we doing here then talking about it?

As I said, I know that it is easy to deal with absolutes but sometimes, things are not always black and white. And sometimes, there are no winners, only losers.

[patrickblue]

I've not really followed this, has he been cleared?

As far as I'm aware the conviction was quashed as unsafe, and he's got a retrial in October.

[Mase]

In case anyone thinks otherwise, whilst I have some sympathy for Evans , I think he was a nobhead for putting himself in that position - nobody did it for him. But I have more sympathy for the girl involved. Again, she has a lot of questions to ask of herself, but the way this case has spiralled and gone on and on, I just feel that in many ways, she has paid a bigger price for this than anyone.

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

Having a little knowledge of the case, I am happy to stand by my comment - he was a nobhead. I expect he would say the same! Although you are right, being a nobhead shouldn't necessarily result in a rape charge.

Please read again what I wrote about her - I said in MANY ways, not EVERY way. Do you think she has not paid ANY price for all of this? Do you honestly believe that she has been able to "get on with the rest of her life"? What the hell are we doing here then talking about it?

As I said, I know that it is easy to deal with absolutes but sometimes, things are not always black and white. And sometimes, there are no winners, only losers.

She's probably paid some sort of price, yes. But does she deserve that? Absolutely yes! She doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.

[kinsey]

In case anyone thinks otherwise, whilst I have some sympathy for Evans , I think he was a nobhead for putting himself in that position - nobody did it for him. But I have more sympathy for the girl involved. Again, she has a lot of questions to ask of herself, but the way this case has spiralled and gone on and on, I just feel that in many ways, she has paid a bigger price for this than anyone.

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

Having a little knowledge of the case, I am happy to stand by my comment - he was a nobhead. I expect he would say the same! Although you are right, being a nobhead shouldn't necessarily result in a rape charge.

Please read again what I wrote about her - I said in MANY ways, not EVERY way. Do you think she has not paid ANY price for all of this? Do you honestly believe that she has been able to "get on with the rest of her life"? What the hell are we doing here then talking about it?

As I said, I know that it is easy to deal with absolutes but sometimes, things are not always black and white. And sometimes, there are no winners, only losers.

She's probably paid some sort of price, yes. But does she deserve that? Absolutely yes! She doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.

Weird. You demonstrate some empathy for Evans and then go and demonstrate what a lovely human being you are by showing none to her? Why are you so angry about it?

Both have fault. Both have paid a disproportionate price.

[Im_Spartacus]

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

Having a little knowledge of the case, I am happy to stand by my comment - he was a nobhead. I expect he would say the same! Although you are right, being a nobhead shouldn't necessarily result in a rape charge.

Please read again what I wrote about her - I said in MANY ways, not EVERY way. Do you think she has not paid ANY price for all of this? Do you honestly believe that she has been able to "get on with the rest of her life"? What the hell are we doing here then talking about it?

As I said, I know that it is easy to deal with absolutes but sometimes, things are not always black and white. And sometimes, there are no winners, only losers.

She's probably paid some sort of price, yes. But does she deserve that? Absolutely yes! She doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.

Weird. You demonstrate some empathy for Evans and then go and demonstrate what a lovely human being you are by showing none to her? Why are you so angry about it?

Both have fault. Both have paid a disproportionate price.

Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.

[Mase]

In case anyone thinks otherwise, whilst I have some sympathy for Evans , I think he was a nobhead for putting himself in that position - nobody did it for him. But I have more sympathy for the girl involved. Again, she has a lot of questions to ask of herself, but the way this case has spiralled and gone on and on, I just feel that in many ways, she has paid a bigger price for this than anyone.

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

Having a little knowledge of the case, I am happy to stand by my comment - he was a nobhead. I expect he would say the same! Although you are right, being a nobhead shouldn't necessarily result in a rape charge.

Please read again what I wrote about her - I said in MANY ways, not EVERY way. Do you think she has not paid ANY price for all of this? Do you honestly believe that she has been able to "get on with the rest of her life"? What the hell are we doing here then talking about it?

As I said, I know that it is easy to deal with absolutes but sometimes, things are not always black and white. And sometimes, there are no winners, only losers.

She's probably paid some sort of price, yes. But does she deserve that? Absolutely yes! She doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.

Weird. You demonstrate some empathy for Evans and then go and demonstrate what a lovely human being you are by showing none to her? Why are you so angry about it?

Both have fault. Both have paid a disproportionate price.

It's not weird at all. When have I ever claimed to be a 'lovely human being'? When have I claimed to be 'angry' about it?

Of course I empathise with a guy that's spent years of his life in prison for someone crying wolf. It's well documented that there was a message on social media from her admitting she was lying. Why would I feel sorry for someone like that?

[Mase]

Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.

I think that's what really hits home - it could literally happen to anyone that goes home with a girl/lad after a night out and then cries wolf. Anyone's life can be ruined.

[DoomMerchant]

Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.

I think that's what really hits home - it could literally happen to anyone that goes home with a girl/lad after a night out and then cries wolf. Anyone's life can be ruined.

So if you're hanging out with a girl who takes you back to her hotel room when you're completely wankered and she gets on top of you and starts fucking you and you drift in and out of consciousness while that's happening and unbeknownst to you she's called me over and I pop in and decide I can join in and slide my cock in your ass for a bit just cuz yknow we're all having fun --and it seems like me asking you if I could dip my wick in you was met with a soggy affirmation, does that change your feelings at all about her situation?

How would you feel when you piece that together the next morning? Gay? Or raped?

A little more complex than a normal night out for most decent fuckers of any gender believe dude.

Cheers

[Beefymcfc]

I've not really followed this, has he been cleared?

As far as I'm aware the conviction was quashed as unsafe, and he's got a retrial in October.

Cheers Pat. I thought the original ruling was quite bemusing and would have thought he would've been admonished.

[kinsey]

Thousands of male and females throughout the country every Friday and Saturday night put themselves in that position. They don't get charged for rape though.

How the hell has the girl paid the bigger price?!!! Was she locked up away from her family for years? Or was her identity kept secret from the public so she could get on with her life?

What an absolutely crazy statement to make!

Having a little knowledge of the case, I am happy to stand by my comment - he was a nobhead. I expect he would say the same! Although you are right, being a nobhead shouldn't necessarily result in a rape charge.

Please read again what I wrote about her - I said in MANY ways, not EVERY way. Do you think she has not paid ANY price for all of this? Do you honestly believe that she has been able to "get on with the rest of her life"? What the hell are we doing here then talking about it?

As I said, I know that it is easy to deal with absolutes but sometimes, things are not always black and white. And sometimes, there are no winners, only losers.

She's probably paid some sort of price, yes. But does she deserve that? Absolutely yes! She doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.

Weird. You demonstrate some empathy for Evans and then go and demonstrate what a lovely human being you are by showing none to her? Why are you so angry about it?

Both have fault. Both have paid a disproportionate price.

Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.

Well at the moment, do we know that she has lied under oath or that she has cried wolf?

As I have just said to Mase, they have both demonstrated considerable stupidity. One is found guilty in court, the other found guilty outside.

I feel sorry for both.

[kinsey]

Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.

I think that's what really hits home - it could literally happen to anyone that goes home with a girl/lad after a night out and then cries wolf. Anyone's life can be ruined.

So if you're hanging out with a girl who takes you back to her hotel room when you're completely wankered and she gets on top of you and starts fucking you and you drift in and out of consciousness while that's happening and unbeknownst to you she's called me over and I pop in and decide I can join in and slide my cock in your ass for a bit just cuz yknow we're all having fun --and it seems like me asking you if I could dip my wick in you was met with a soggy affirmation, does that change your feelings at all about her situation?

How would you feel when you piece that together the next morning? Gay? Or raped?

A little more complex than a normal night out for most decent fuckers of any gender believe dude.

Cheers

Excellent analogy!

This is such a difficult case in so many ways and why rape is so so frequently such a difficult crime to prosecute.

The truth is, the only person who knows the truth of this is her. It is my belief that in those circumstances, even Evans was taking a guess - and he deserves condemnation for that recklessness, regardless of the truth of her intentions.

[Mase]

Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.

I think that's what really hits home - it could literally happen to anyone that goes home with a girl/lad after a night out and then cries wolf. Anyone's life can be ruined.

So if you're hanging out with a girl who takes you back to her hotel room when you're completely wankered and she gets on top of you and starts fucking you and you drift in and out of consciousness while that's happening and unbeknownst to you she's called me over and I pop in and decide I can join in and slide my cock in your ass for a bit just cuz yknow we're all having fun --and it seems like me asking you if I could dip my wick in you was met with a soggy affirmation, does that change your feelings at all about her situation?

How would you feel when you piece that together the next morning? Gay? Or raped?

A little more complex than a normal night out for most decent fuckers of any gender believe dude.

Cheers

Excellent analogy!

This is such a difficult case in so many ways and why rape is so so frequently such a difficult crime to prosecute.

The truth is, the only person who knows the truth of this is her. It is my belief that in those circumstances, even Evans was taking a guess - and he deserves condemnation for that recklessness, regardless of the truth of her intentions.

Not really an 'excellent' analogy is it when that isn't what was claimed.

A far as I'm aware the 'victim' never claimed she'd passed out, rather she 'couldn't remember consenting to sex'. Slightly different to have sex with someone whilst they're passed out than have sex with someone that is 'too drunk to remember'.

The hotel porter provided an account where he heard them having sex. So she definitely wasn't passed out. Read the facts of the case before we go on please.

[kinsey]

Mase - i would hazard a guess that I am more familiar with the facts of the case than you are.

An analogy is not the same as a blow by blow account.

But in an effort to keep you appeased, who did the porter hear have sex?

[Mase]

Mase - i would hazard a guess that I am more familiar with the facts of the case than you are.

An analogy is not the same as a blow by blow account.

But in an effort to keep you appeased, who did the porter hear have sex?

You tell me pal. You are more familiar with the facts of the case than I am.

[patrickblue]

I've not really followed this, has he been cleared?

As far as I'm aware the conviction was quashed as unsafe, and he's got a retrial in October.

Cheers Pat. I thought the original ruling was quite bemusing and would have thought he would've been admonished.

Just to add, Evans states he has new evidence, which when it was presented to the appeal board/court, or whatever was supposedly the deciding factor for the unsafe verdict and retrial decision.
They also ruled that the new evidence cannot be made public until the retrial.
So I'd imagine that it's something very substantial.

[Mase]

I've not really followed this, has he been cleared?

As far as I'm aware the conviction was quashed as unsafe, and he's got a retrial in October.

Cheers Pat. I thought the original ruling was quite bemusing and would have thought he would've been admonished.

Just to add, Evans states he has new evidence, which when it was presented to the appeal board/court, or whatever was supposedly the deciding factor for the unsafe verdict and retrial decision.
They also ruled that the new evidence cannot be made public until the retrial.
So I'd imagine that it's something very substantial.

I think Sis mentioned a message the girl had sent via social media that admitted she was making it up and trying to get money from him, that his legal team were trying to get hold of. Potentially that.