Other UEFA league games: match week 5

[Justified logic]

Does that help us before the derby? will they have to play a stronger team to top the group?

there's nothing will help them come December 3rd

december 10th?

and then

They don't play 3rd Dec. They play on the 2nd and the 5th.

[sheblue]

Basel ....

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Basel ....

Perhaps Basel is an anagram for Blasé - and that's how the Scum approached the game ??

[Beefymcfc]

I agree beefy.

And I don't think they'd have gotten out of our group

Well, looking at their struggles against another second class team tonight, I think you're right.

[nottsblue]

I agree beefy.

And I don't think they'd have gotten out of our group

Well, looking at their struggles against another second class team tonight, I think you're right.

They might still not get out of their group yet.

[Wonderwall]

Maureen has screwed up. He now has to play his big hitters in the final group game. If he showed endeavour he could have rested his 1st 11 before the Derby.

[Justified logic]

I agree beefy.

And I don't think they'd have gotten out of our group

Well, looking at their struggles against another second class team tonight, I think you're right.

They might still not get out of their group yet.

They need a point at home to CSKA to be sure of topping the group in the CL but GD and previous results should see them progress.

[nottsblue]

I agree beefy.

And I don't think they'd have gotten out of our group

Well, looking at their struggles against another second class team tonight, I think you're right.

They might still not get out of their group yet.

They need a point at home to CSKA to be sure of topping the group in the CL but GD and previous results should see them progress.

What was their result in Moscow? I know it's unlikely, but if CSKA better it and Basel win at Benfica, them the rags are defending their Europa League trophy

[johnny crossan]

I agree beefy.

And I don't think they'd have gotten out of our group

Well, looking at their struggles against another second class team tonight, I think you're right.

They might still not get out of their group yet.

They need a point at home to CSKA to be sure of topping the group in the CL but GD and previous results should see them progress.

What was their result in Moscow? I know it's unlikely, but if CSKA better it and Basel win at Benfica, them the rags are defending their Europa League trophy

1-4 so 0-3 to the Muscovites should do it

[Justified logic]

I agree beefy.

And I don't think they'd have gotten out of our group

Well, looking at their struggles against another second class team tonight, I think you're right.

They might still not get out of their group yet.

They need a point at home to CSKA to be sure of topping the group in the CL but GD and previous results should see them progress.

What was their result in Moscow? I know it's unlikely, but if CSKA better it and Basel win at Benfica, them the rags are defending their Europa League trophy

It was 1-4. CSKA would have to better that as their GD isn't as good.

If it is decided primarily on GD in the whole group then a 5 goal turn over would be required, and a change of GD with Basel of 4 for United to be consigned to the EL.

I think!

[Beefymcfc]

Just a thought but is Maureen aiming for second place after looking at current positions? The chance of playing Europe's elite will have him curled up in the corner, knowing he's not got a chance against a real team.

[johnny crossan]

Just a thought but is Maureen aiming for second place after looking at current positions? The chance of playing Europe's elite will have him curled up in the corner, knowing he's not got a chance against a real team.

playing the second leg away is not normally by choice

[patrickblue]

Well, it wasn't Basel who were Fawlty.
And it wasn't Basel's car who got a damn good thrashing.
It was moaning minnie's bus.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Not sure if mentioned on here but I see UEFA are investigating Carvajal for intentionally getting himself booked. He's bang to rights here

Should've just took someone out Chopper Harris style like DeBruyne did.

[BlueinBosnia]

Does that help us before the derby? will they have to play a stronger team to top the group?

Still ahead by 3 points and nearest on gd is Basle but 4 goals better off unfortunately so fairly safe.

From how I understand it, CSKA have to beat the Rags by 3, and score at least 4 for them to not top the group.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Does that help us before the derby? will they have to play a stronger team to top the group?

Still ahead by 3 points and nearest on gd is Basle but 4 goals better off unfortunately so fairly safe.

From how I understand it, CSKA have to beat the Rags by 3, and score at least 4 for them to not top the group.

Beating them by 3 or 4 won't be enough. CSKA would need to win by 5 or more to qualify.

[Justified logic]

This is taken from the very helpful kassiesa website:

If in the group stage of the Champions League two or more teams finish equal on points after all the group matches have been played, the following criteria are applied to determine the group rankings:

1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches between the teams in question
2. Superior goal difference from the matches between the teams in question
3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches between the teams in question
4. Higher number of goals scored away from home in the matches between the teams in question
5. If teams still have an equal ranking, the above criteria 1-4 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams in question to determine the final ranking. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, the criteria 6-12 below apply
6. Superior goal difference in all group matches
7. Higher number of goals scored in all group matches
8. Higher number of away goals scored in all group matches
9. Higher number of wins in all group matches
10. Higher number of away wins in all group matches
11. Lower disciplinary points from cards in all group matches (red=3, yellow=1)
12. Higher club coefficient

See the Regulations of the Champions League 2017/2018 (pdf file at uefa.com) for a complete and formal description of all regulations.

Currently (excluding results against Benfica):

Team F A GD
Utd 7 2 5
Basel 4 5 -1
CSKA 3 7 -4

From a quick spreadsheet calculation I think that means for United to finish third, CSKA have to win by 5 clear goals and Basel need to win by 2 more goals than United score. To finish second, just the CSKA criterion is important.

[BlueinBosnia]

Does that help us before the derby? will they have to play a stronger team to top the group?

Still ahead by 3 points and nearest on gd is Basle but 4 goals better off unfortunately so fairly safe.

From how I understand it, CSKA have to beat the Rags by 3, and score at least 4 for them to not top the group.

Beating them by 3 or 4 won't be enough. CSKA would need to win by 5 or more to qualify.

Head-to-head takes priority over GD. Therefore, they need to better the score in Moscow.

From how I see it:

Rags lose to CSKA by enough, and Basel win: CSKA first, Rags through as second, due to better head-to-head vs. Basel

Rags lose to CSKA by not enough, Basel win: Rags first, Basel second, as better head-to-head record vs. CSKA

Rags lose to CSKA by not enough, Basel lose or draw: Rags first, CSKA second

CSKA fail to beat Rags: Rags top the group, with Basel needing to match CSKA's result to go through as second

Whatever happens, Rags are through, it seems.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Does that help us before the derby? will they have to play a stronger team to top the group?

Still ahead by 3 points and nearest on gd is Basle but 4 goals better off unfortunately so fairly safe.

From how I understand it, CSKA have to beat the Rags by 3, and score at least 4 for them to not top the group.

Beating them by 3 or 4 won't be enough. CSKA would need to win by 5 or more to qualify.

Head-to-head takes priority over GD. Therefore, they need to better the score in Moscow.

From how I see it:

Rags lose to CSKA by enough, and Basel win: CSKA first, Rags through as second, due to better head-to-head vs. Basel

Rags lose to CSKA by not enough, Basel win: Rags first, Basel second, as better head-to-head record vs. CSKA

Rags lose to CSKA by not enough, Basel lose or draw: Rags first, CSKA second

CSKA fail to beat Rags: Rags top the group, with Basel needing to match CSKA's result to go through as second

Whatever happens, Rags are through, it seems.

Basel have the better of the head to head against CSKA though so in your first example the three teams can't he separated by head to head, so it would have to go to goal difference, I think, which is why I was saying CSKA need to score 5 to qualify.

[BlueinBosnia]

This is taken from the very helpful kassiesa website:

If in the group stage of the Champions League two or more teams finish equal on points after all the group matches have been played, the following criteria are applied to determine the group rankings:

1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches between the teams in question
2. Superior goal difference from the matches between the teams in question
3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches between the teams in question
4. Higher number of goals scored away from home in the matches between the teams in question
5. If teams still have an equal ranking, the above criteria 1-4 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams in question to determine the final ranking. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, the criteria 6-12 below apply
6. Superior goal difference in all group matches
7. Higher number of goals scored in all group matches
8. Higher number of away goals scored in all group matches
9. Higher number of wins in all group matches
10. Higher number of away wins in all group matches
11. Lower disciplinary points from cards in all group matches (red=3, yellow=1)
12. Higher club coefficient

See the Regulations of the Champions League 2017/2018 (pdf file at uefa.com) for a complete and formal description of all regulations.

Currently (excluding results against Benfica):

Team F A GD
Utd 7 2 5
Basel 4 5 -1
CSKA 3 7 -4

From a quick spreadsheet calculation I think that means for United to finish third, CSKA have to win by 5 clear goals and Basel need to win by 2 more goals than United score. To finish second, just the CSKA criterion is important.

Yep, I'd go with that.

I don't know whether a team's ever been eliminated with 12 points in the group stage before. I think we were only the 2nd team to be eliminated with 10 points back in 2011-12.