***tonight's title decider official match thread***

[PrezIke]

^^^^^^,

That might have been „Inshallah“ they were saying and not „it‘s Salah“.

Haha...nice one...but it was definitely "Salah!"

[phips]

im not surprised that somebody above only listed 2 youngers as possibly having a future at City. our youngster model is that of Chelsea: buy cheap talented kids, loan them out, hopefully flip a small percentage for big money to make the whole thing worth it. i'd be surprised if in 3 seasons from now more than 2 youngsters have broken into the side. Foden & Diaz last season dont count; they did nothing. im talking about playing consistently (& not just in cups); whether thats starting or almost always being one of the 3 subs (like a Bernardo Silva last season for instance)

[Outcast]

im not surprised that somebody above only listed 2 youngers as possibly having a future at City. our youngster model is that of Chelsea: buy cheap talented kids, loan them out, hopefully flip a small percentage for big money to make the whole thing worth it. i'd be surprised if in 3 seeasons from now more than 2 youngsters have broken into the side. Foden & Diaz last season dont count; they did nothing. im not talking about playing consistently (& not just in cups); whether thats starting or almost always being one of the 3 subs (like a Bernardo Silva last season for instance)

I know we have defencies and imperfections that might take years to iron out, but seriously, do you have anything positive to say about City? E.g. Harry kane was loaned out numerous times (I stand corrected) before he came back and excelled. It takes time and patience

[City64]

im not surprised that somebody above only listed 2 youngers as possibly having a future at City. our youngster model is that of Chelsea: buy cheap talented kids, loan them out, hopefully flip a small percentage for big money to make the whole thing worth it. i'd be surprised if in 3 seeasons from now more than 2 youngsters have broken into the side. Foden & Diaz last season dont count; they did nothing. im not talking about playing consistently (& not just in cups); whether thats starting or almost always being one of the 3 subs (like a Bernardo Silva last season for instance)

All you do is fucking slag city off ! Have you ever been to a game in the 2 years since you "followed" the mighty blues of Manchester ??? We are playing in your country why aren't you at least one game ???? Have you ever been to Manchester ??? Absolute fucking knob jockey , fuck off to a Dortmund forum !

[PrezIke]

That was actually a good game to watch despite it being pre-season, and despite us playing a slightly reinforced EDS team.
It was great seeing the kids having a go, and I thought most of them did very well. That said, I do think only one or two may actually have a future at City (Garcia and Gomes).

We obviously struggled in the second half when Salah and Mané came on, but it was also down to us shifting and changing the whole defence. However, the biggest impact, in my opinion, was Mahrez goin off and Zinchenko being moved to left back and subsequently taken off. The Zinch was actually doing really well in the DM role from a build up point of view (his defensive work is not good enough) - the guy is clearly a very gifted footballer - and provided an outlet for the back three. He really looked to have the steady influence of a senior player despite being around the same age as some of the EDS kids (Harrison is actually older). That Mahrez dropped down from his number 10 position and participated in the build up also helped.

Ad for the kids, I thought Harrison had a great first half. His crossing is really something else. That said, I don't think he's nearly talented enough to ever be a regular City player, but he does deserve a good loan and who knows, maybe we will make a good buck on him?

Bolton on the right is two years younger (only 19) and looked really good, both as a right wing back in the first half and slightly further up the pitch in the second. the lad got some speed. It will be interesting to see if he will be loaned out this season or stay with the EDS one more year. If it's the latter, I do believe he can get cameo appearances in the cups.

Eric Garcia looks like such a great prospect. I would not be surprised to see him being a regular starter for us in a few years time (he's only 17!). Humphreys was also good last night, but would probably benefit from a loan this season. He's turning 20 in August and would probably benefit from playing senior football.

Diaz started great, but faded. maybe because of the overly stern Liverpool defending? Foden ticked away nicely the whole game and looks very tidy, however, next to Zinchenko he did look inexperienced.

Nmecha did really well in the first half. He's only 19, but I still think a loan move would be good for him. He will get very limited game time with the first team if he stays seeing that both Sané and Sterling can play as back-up strikers. He does look really strong and pacey, but I just don't think he's suited to the way we play.

In the second half there were so many subs and position changes that it was difficult to make any assessments. That said, I thought Tosin looked very shaky and I though he was outshone by Garcia and Humpreys. Gomes didn't quite look up to speed and gave the ball away too easily on quite a few occasions. I do think he looks very promising as a DM, though. Will probably get som game time in the cups this season.

Almost identical assessment mate! Nice additions on some of the other players.

I thought Gomes showed quality under some pressure, almost initiating a quick counter at one point, and visibly trying to lead the defence after Salah came on as he and Mane started causing some players problems. It at least appears Gomes was trying to direct and communicate with some of his teammates on the pitch to resolve some issues, which is nice to see given he just arrived. Hopefully that went over well rather than "Who's this new kid?"

[zuricity]

We should get one of those banners like the rags had. At what time was it when Kun scored 5-28 ? soon to be 6-29 ?.

That should shut them up.

[PrezIke]

im not surprised that somebody above only listed 2 youngers as possibly having a future at City. our youngster model is that of Chelsea: buy cheap talented kids, loan them out, hopefully flip a small percentage for big money to make the whole thing worth it. i'd be surprised if in 3 seeasons from now more than 2 youngsters have broken into the side. Foden & Diaz last season dont count; they did nothing. im not talking about playing consistently (& not just in cups); whether thats starting or almost always being one of the 3 subs (like a Bernardo Silva last season for instance)

Sheesh. Debbie downer over here!

I think you're being a bit harsh, which I have gathered is your style over the years. I get what you're saying but reality is no top club is going to rely heavily on young players barring an injury crisis or some major drop in form from senior first teamers.

Who are these young players going to replace as we are competing for 4 trophies that require the best players to win? RM and Barca don't play youth players from their system now. Name some who have come up through theirs lately and are in their first teams.

There is no question, as Chairman Mubarak has made clear, that the academy is ALSO about generating revenues for the club. Yet, we still have a few players that might make it. The problem is when some get near good enough for real game time at PL levels we are not really going to keep too many spaces open because it's too risky, so the idea is to use Girona as a good place for them to get experience, or worst case the sell + buy back clause approach.

Let's see what happens with Brahim, but I think there are more than 4 who could come through. Say:

Foden
Brahim (??)
Garcia
Gomes

That's 4, not 2.

We have others on loan elsewhere who MIGHT, although the track record has not been great there, but Maffeo was close to making the team if Danilo had not shown improvement later in the season. I think otherwise Pep might have given him a real chance.

[Slim]

How old is Zinchenko?

[phips]

im not surprised that somebody above only listed 2 youngers as possibly having a future at City. our youngster model is that of Chelsea: buy cheap talented kids, loan them out, hopefully flip a small percentage for big money to make the whole thing worth it. i'd be surprised if in 3 seasons from no more than 2 youngsters have broken into the side. Foden & Diaz last season dont count; they did nothing. im not talking about playing consistently (& not just in cups); whether thats starting or almost always being one of the 3 subs (like a Bernardo Silva last season for instance)

I get what you're saying but reality is no top club is going to rely heavily on young players barring an injury crisis or some major drop in form from senior first teamers. Exactly. i never implied it was unique to us.

Who are these young players going to replace as we are competing for 4 trophies that require the best players to win? RM and Barca don't play youth players from their system now. Name some who have come up through theirs lately and are in their first teams. See above response. You make it sound like I'm singling out City & chastising them for not doing something that other clubs do. Far from it. its the sobering truth.

There is no question, as Chairman Mubarak has made clear, that the academy is ALSO about generating revenues for the club. I'd argue that's its #1 goal as Pep (nor any big time manager at a big club like City now) isnt going to risk winning things by, for example, starting Brahim as a #10 when Silva leaves/retires. He's gonna buy a big name player. it's how it works these days.

Let's see what happens with Brahim, but I think there are more than 4 who could come through. Say:

Foden
Brahim (??)
Garcia
Gomes

Way too early on the last two but im not sold on the first two. both havent taken advantage of their opportunities so far. yes its early on and im not saying get rid of them now--nothing like that--but the early signs arent good imo. Brahim & Foden are the "elder statesman" amongst our youngsters; they really should be running these preseason friendlies. instead, theyre doing nothing--exactly what theyve done theyre entire time with the first team.

[mr_nool]

How old is Zinchenko?

21

[Grandad Rosler]

shit game on a shit pitch with a shit ref with the reserves
what is the point in these tours??!!

Apparently we get £15 million squids to play in these tournaments. Not bad going really for a reserve run out

[sheblue]

shit game on a shit pitch with a shit ref with the reserves
what is the point in these tours??!!

Apparently we get £15 million squids to play in these tournaments. Not bad going really for a reserve run out

15 mill that's better but its hardly a desperate need now. These tours are good for the marketing department no doubt about that. But the season is looming and I do wonder that following a world cup maybe staying at home preseason might just might be the better policy where preseason preparations are affected by the world cup.

[Nigels Tackle]

shit game on a shit pitch with a shit ref with the reserves
what is the point in these tours??!!

Apparently we get £15 million squids to play in these tournaments. Not bad going really for a reserve run out

is that £15m before or after travel costs for the party of c100 are taken into consideration??
noticed the team were staying at the mandarin oriental in manhattan - that place ain’t cheap!

[iwasthere2012]

Foden
Brahim (??)
Garcia
Gomes

Way too early on the last two but im not sold on the first two. both havent taken advantage of their opportunities so far. yes its early on and im not saying get rid of them now--nothing like that--but the early signs arent good imo. Brahim & Foden are the "elder statesman" amongst our youngsters; they really should be running these preseason friendlies. instead, theyre doing nothing--exactly what theyve done theyre entire time with the first team.

[/quote]

I think that's bullshit.
Foden was only 17 playing last year and is only just gone 18 now.
Diaz is not 19 unil 3rd of August.
These two were fast tracked into the EDS and are still younger than the majority of that squad.

They were promoted to the first team squad because they were well above the standard for their age and are seen to have the most potential.
They are no where near elder statesmen of any City squad.

[bobadji]

im not surprised that somebody above only listed 2 youngers as possibly having a future at City. our youngster model is that of Chelsea: buy cheap talented kids, loan them out, hopefully flip a small percentage for big money to make the whole thing worth it. i'd be surprised if in 3 seeasons from now more than 2 youngsters have broken into the side. Foden & Diaz last season dont count; they did nothing. im not talking about playing consistently (& not just in cups); whether thats starting or almost always being one of the 3 subs (like a Bernardo Silva last season for instance)

I know you get a lot of shit on here phips, but I think this is pretty fair to be honest, and looks like the way we are going.

It's a pretty good business model as well if you ask me, hoover up all the young talent, if they make it, brilliant - if not, we flip them for a profit (adding a buy back clause in case they ever turn out amazing)

I don't see the problem with it, we'll 100% get burnt every so often with this method, but it makes sense to do it. If a gem comes through, maybe Foden is one, maybe he'll turn into nothing, maybe one of the lads who've been out on loan will turn into something special ala Kane - you just can't tell at this stage in their careers.

United have made a fortune selling bang average youngsters over the years, and looking at transfermarkt we've sold the following;

Gunn - 10m
Maffeo - 8m
Angelino - 5m
Kayode (who?) - 2.7m

25m right there on players who might make it or might not.

Last year we did

Kelechi - 25m
Unal - 12.6m
Ntcham - 4.5m
Sobrino - 1.8m
Zuculini - 1.1m

Thats almost 70m!

[Nigels Tackle]

if i was a betting man, i wouldn’t be backing foden to ‘make it’ at city.
nothing i’ve seen from him at senior level so far makes me think that he’s a seriously special player. very tidy, yes. potential mega star, no.

[Slim]

if i was a betting man, i wouldn’t be backing foden to ‘make it’ at city.
nothing i’ve seen from him at senior level so far makes me think that he’s a seriously special player. very tidy, yes. potential mega star, no.

I think the jury is still out. Still all about potential and we could end up with a SWP or a Lee Croft. Remember how highly rated Onuoha was, one injury later and he’s a bit part player behind Micah. Might loan him out and get a stellar player in 12 months.

[carl_feedthegoat]

I think the cunts have had enough days off now - should report back to fucking training tomorrow .

Lazy cunts

[PrezIke]

shit game on a shit pitch with a shit ref with the reserves
what is the point in these tours??!!

Apparently we get £15 million squids to play in these tournaments. Not bad going really for a reserve run out

15 mill that's better but its hardly a desperate need now. These tours are good for the marketing department no doubt about that. But the season is looming and I do wonder that following a world cup maybe staying at home preseason might just might be the better policy where preseason preparations are affected by the world cup.

I think 15m helps more with FFP than I think some may be realising and, yes these tours certainly helps promote the club. We may have a rich owner, but FFP is still a real thing and that money could be utilised in many useful ways, I gather.

How does one define the "needs" of the club? I'm asking this because I think we should be honest with ourselves and come to terms with the reality that purely footballing "needs" are always going to have to be balanced with other needs to ensure remaining as relevant as possible, and of course grow to become the best -- a well known goal for the club.

I'm not going to pretend there aren't some downsides/risks to these tours. I'm sure the managers all wish they could stay closer to home for various preparation purposes, but they are probably in part sold on the tours at least by getting players opportunities to play against good opposition that I think we've seen can motivate some players - particularly younger and fringe players -- to demonstrate their value, which helps managers assess them better. Regardless, I notice managers don't whinge about the tours now, as I am guessing that this has been put into their contracts as something they have to shut up on and is really just part of the deal.

Certainly the impact that travel distance and jet lag have on preparations are the most glaring, but do others who call for "staying home" notice that nearly every "big" club in Europe do these tours? I honestly am struggling to think of one "big" club that does not do similar tours or rotate each summer in the ICC between Asia, Southeast Asia, Australia and North America.

I mean no disrespect, but seems like wishful...or rather fanciful thinking as I don't see this ever happening, or at least anytime soon. It is part of the way it is now with the global exposure and growth of top European football leagues.

I get why the argument is made, and of course I have some bias being from a country who benefits from these tours getting to see the club play games (who I would have to travel to England or maybe Europe otherwise to at a high cost), so I won't hide that. Despite that, I also enjoy seeing "big" clubs in preseason friendlies against CL level clubs in the ICC. However, would it be a fair point to suggest that if one is against these tours that you probably don't really see direct benefits so makes more sense to be more likely to be against them?

Some comforting news could be that we are playing amongst the fewest friendlies of PL sides and will have a good gap between ICC and the charity shield. We didn't travel to the west coast of the USA so the time difference will not be as bad. We have our last game in Miami Sunday 28 July and then 6 days to travel, rest and prepare before the game against Chelsea I think that is a decent gap, and reality is a many of our key players might not really be ready to play in that game anyway.

[BlueinBosnia]

Foden
Brahim (??)
Garcia
Gomes

Way too early on the last two but im not sold on the first two. both havent taken advantage of their opportunities so far. yes its early on and im not saying get rid of them now--nothing like that--but the early signs arent good imo. Brahim & Foden are the "elder statesman" amongst our youngsters; they really should be running these preseason friendlies. instead, theyre doing nothing--exactly what theyve done theyre entire time with the first team.

I think that's bullshit.
Foden was only 17 playing last year and is only just gone 18 now.
Diaz is not 19 unil 3rd of August.
These two were fast tracked into the EDS and are still younger than the majority of that squad.

They were promoted to the first team squad because they were well above the standard for their age and are seen to have the most potential.
They are no where near elder statesmen of any City squad.

I think he's talking in terms of seniority, rather than age. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Diaz and Foden have made the fourth- and fifth-most outfield player appearances for us of any squad member on the tour (behind Zinchenko, Silva and Sane) respectively.