Pep Has To Go The End Of This Season

[Mase]

Well win the quadruple, then there’ll be some red faces

If we do I'll streak naked through the streets of Bury

You still owe them from last time

Though a recent poll suggested only three people still wanted to see it.

Old Doris who thought it’d be funny.

C64

And an ex Bury alumni, Gary Neville

[Mase]

Well win the quadruple, then there’ll be some red faces

If we do I'll streak naked through the streets of Bury

I don’t think the good people of Bury need lose any sleep or be put off their black puddings any time soon

Haha this time I'm certain of it

[Im_Spartacus]

When was the last time our team were really at it against top opposition for 90 mins ? playing with pace and skill, putting our opponents to the sword, winning comfortably. It was the treble season, there has been nothing like it since, just a handful of good games. It’s pitiful actually with what we have at our disposal. Prime Kev, Rodri, Foden, Bernie, Stones and the rest. All those players are either gone or seemingly spent. We are in decline for several reasons, but the most notable reason is that a team in their first CL campaign and haven’t won a game ever in the competition have worked out how to play us and that is down to the manager to find a way and it’s patently obvious that he’s out of ideas.


Unless something extraordinary happens over the next couple of months, and it seems pretty obvious that its not going to happen then he has to go at the end of the season. He’s tainting his reputation and the club’s status. I actually think he’s lost the dressing room and that’s down to him and his arrogance. I’m done with him, and have been for over a year. He’s been a great manager for us and we could not have imagined the success he’d bring but it’s over. I still have hope, I’m a city fan after all and will support us whatever happens but it’s time for a new and fresh approach whatever that may bring. Taxi for Pep !!!!!

Excellent post

I think some have very rose tinted memories of the treble season - it was wank football for a lot of it barring the Real Madrid takedowns, and the outcome was actually more characterised by it being the one occasion in the run in of a season where Guardiola didn't do something fucking stupid or arrogant.

The decline started imperceptably when we started to lose players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and never really replaced them properly or in a timely manner. We've hit gold with Rodri and Haaland, but beyond that it's all very 'Meh', and it just gathered pace the last 2 years when you lose players like KDB, but also when you lose the non-cental players like Mahrez, Walker, you start to realise just how special that group of players were together.

I'm far from a happy clapper, I barely watch City any more because I can't stomach watching the insipid way we tend to play for the most part or the stupid shit Guardiola does - I'd love to get that feeling back again of being excited, But getting a manager who's gonna throw caution to the wind with a squad that will likely never match the centurions, is also going to mean we lose quite often, and there's a feeling I see here that nothing will ever be good enough again.

My question to everyone, guardiola aside - will we ever be satisfied again after what we've seen, or are we destined to be a Real Madrid baying for the managers' blood every year because he's not won the fuckin lot.

So where DO we go from here?

Arsenal 4-1, Liverpool 4-1, Utd 6-3, Spuds 4-2 (from 2-0 down), Palace 4-2 (from 2-0 down), Bayern 3-0, Real 4-0 and so on........we were playing fantastic football that season, the best we've ever played and arguably (no argument in my mind though) the best football the PL has ever seen. That's not through rose tinted glasses, that's reality, I saw it with my own uninhibited eyes. I was enthralled and dizzy with excitement. It's been a downward spiral ever since, although we did win the title the following season, not quite sure how but we certainly were not at the previous season levels. I doubt whether we'll ever see that level again.

The reality is that the pack have caught up, we set the standards and as always the chasers catch up, fathom out how to beat us, even lowly Gustav Klimt worked it out and implemented it on Tuesday. This writing has been on the wall since the beginning of last season and I've seen nothing in the tank either from the players or the coaches to suggest us surging to the front again. There was a glimmer of hope a couple of months ago, but that hope has quickly turned to despair. We are still involved on four fronts, it looks a distinct possibility that all 5 English clubs will make the top eight which is interesting, so plenty to fight for and cheer on....probably in vain, but you never know !!

When you look at the data from the treble season, specifically in the league, we can see clear signs that the decline had begun from the previous year. That statement may surprise most people because the 21-22 season wasn't particularly memorable, while everyone will remember 22-23 as the season Haaland arrived and smashed a goal a game in the league.

The treble season was definitely tempered by some of the stand-out results you mentioned, but in every measure of goals scored (-6), goals conceded (+7), points achieved (-5), we were inferior to the season before and notably less consistent.

We completely lost our way for a full 2 months mid-season after liverpool beat us in mid-October, and even the games we won in that spell were tight games/late goals - it wasn't until we were 2.0 down against spurs in mid Jan, something clicked and we went on the rampage for the rest of the season.

But the warning signs of decline were there, as they were there the following season in the way we had to grind the results out before the wheels fully fell off last year.

So we've had these spells like we're having now in ALL seasons under Pep, and as bad as the current run is, it seems after the fact, we all get collective amnesia of how those seasons actually played out. Guardiola has been guilty of not getting the team up for games or stupid tactics in isolated games from day 1 - but the first time we hit a really prolonged bad patch was in the treble season, the difference now is that that the squad is less capable/unable to relying on muscle memory to grind our way out of these spells, which is natural in light of the squad turnover we've now experienced.

[Harry Dowd scored]

Looks like posters on here are not on their own with the views on Pep this article contains a lot of issues highlighted on this thread


https://www.sportinglife.com/football/n ... ind/229925

[PeterParker]

Looks like posters on here are not on their own with the views on Pep this article contains a lot of issues highlighted on this thread


https://www.sportinglife.com/football/n ... ind/229925

He sounded almost sad that he had Guehi available in the press conference earlier.

[Paul68]

Saying shit like this is not helping his cause....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/guardiola-issues-shock-arsenal-verdict-as-man-city-fade-in-title-race/ar-AA1UOYaX?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=69737df3bc254a2d9d7102f4463860cb&ei=21

[Hazy2]

Saying shit like this is not helping his cause....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/guardiola-issues-shock-arsenal-verdict-as-man-city-fade-in-title-race/ar-AA1UOYaX?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=69737df3bc254a2d9d7102f4463860cb&ei=21

Classic Pep. Nothing new there mate.

[Sparklehorse]

When was the last time our team were really at it against top opposition for 90 mins ? playing with pace and skill, putting our opponents to the sword, winning comfortably. It was the treble season, there has been nothing like it since, just a handful of good games. It’s pitiful actually with what we have at our disposal. Prime Kev, Rodri, Foden, Bernie, Stones and the rest. All those players are either gone or seemingly spent. We are in decline for several reasons, but the most notable reason is that a team in their first CL campaign and haven’t won a game ever in the competition have worked out how to play us and that is down to the manager to find a way and it’s patently obvious that he’s out of ideas.


Unless something extraordinary happens over the next couple of months, and it seems pretty obvious that its not going to happen then he has to go at the end of the season. He’s tainting his reputation and the club’s status. I actually think he’s lost the dressing room and that’s down to him and his arrogance. I’m done with him, and have been for over a year. He’s been a great manager for us and we could not have imagined the success he’d bring but it’s over. I still have hope, I’m a city fan after all and will support us whatever happens but it’s time for a new and fresh approach whatever that may bring. Taxi for Pep !!!!!

Excellent post

I think some have very rose tinted memories of the treble season - it was wank football for a lot of it barring the Real Madrid takedowns, and the outcome was actually more characterised by it being the one occasion in the run in of a season where Guardiola didn't do something fucking stupid or arrogant.

The decline started imperceptably when we started to lose players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and never really replaced them properly or in a timely manner. We've hit gold with Rodri and Haaland, but beyond that it's all very 'Meh', and it just gathered pace the last 2 years when you lose players like KDB, but also when you lose the non-cental players like Mahrez, Walker, you start to realise just how special that group of players were together.

I'm far from a happy clapper, I barely watch City any more because I can't stomach watching the insipid way we tend to play for the most part or the stupid shit Guardiola does - I'd love to get that feeling back again of being excited, But getting a manager who's gonna throw caution to the wind with a squad that will likely never match the centurions, is also going to mean we lose quite often, and there's a feeling I see here that nothing will ever be good enough again.

My question to everyone, guardiola aside - will we ever be satisfied again after what we've seen, or are we destined to be a Real Madrid baying for the managers' blood every year because he's not won the fuckin lot.

So where DO we go from here?

Arsenal 4-1, Liverpool 4-1, Utd 6-3, Spuds 4-2 (from 2-0 down), Palace 4-2 (from 2-0 down), Bayern 3-0, Real 4-0 and so on........we were playing fantastic football that season, the best we've ever played and arguably (no argument in my mind though) the best football the PL has ever seen. That's not through rose tinted glasses, that's reality, I saw it with my own uninhibited eyes. I was enthralled and dizzy with excitement. It's been a downward spiral ever since, although we did win the title the following season, not quite sure how but we certainly were not at the previous season levels. I doubt whether we'll ever see that level again.

The reality is that the pack have caught up, we set the standards and as always the chasers catch up, fathom out how to beat us, even lowly Gustav Klimt worked it out and implemented it on Tuesday. This writing has been on the wall since the beginning of last season and I've seen nothing in the tank either from the players or the coaches to suggest us surging to the front again. There was a glimmer of hope a couple of months ago, but that hope has quickly turned to despair. We are still involved on four fronts, it looks a distinct possibility that all 5 English clubs will make the top eight which is interesting, so plenty to fight for and cheer on....probably in vain, but you never know !!

When you look at the data from the treble season, specifically in the league, we can see clear signs that the decline had begun from the previous year. That statement may surprise most people because the 21-22 season wasn't particularly memorable, while everyone will remember 22-23 as the season Haaland arrived and smashed a goal a game in the league.

The treble season was definitely tempered by some of the stand-out results you mentioned, but in every measure of goals scored (-6), goals conceded (+7), points achieved (-5), we were inferior to the season before and notably less consistent.

We completely lost our way for a full 2 months mid-season after liverpool beat us in mid-October, and even the games we won in that spell were tight games/late goals - it wasn't until we were 2.0 down against spurs in mid Jan, something clicked and we went on the rampage for the rest of the season.

But the warning signs of decline were there, as they were there the following season in the way we had to grind the results out before the wheels fully fell off last year.

So we've had these spells like we're having now in ALL seasons under Pep, and as bad as the current run is, it seems after the fact, we all get collective amnesia of how those seasons actually played out. Guardiola has been guilty of not getting the team up for games or stupid tactics in isolated games from day 1 - but the first time we hit a really prolonged bad patch was in the treble season, the difference now is that that the squad is less capable/unable to relying on muscle memory to grind our way out of these spells, which is natural in light of the squad turnover we've now experienced.

The stats are largely irrelevant, you can’t say that a team was worse or better on the basis of scoring 7 goals less or conceding a handful of goals more from one season to the next and calling it the start of a decline. The fact is what we saw on the pitch, we’d not beaten Madrid in the CL before over two legs, they beat us before and have beaten us since but by god they didn’t come close during the treble season. I stand by what I say, I certainly didn’t any sign whatsoever that we were in decline, if a team can win a treble under decline then I’m a Dutchman. We won the league the following season too, admittedly we were not at the sparkling brilliance of the season before we had to grind it out a little, but you cannot be in decline and win the league. In my view the decline started at the beginning of the 24-25 season, we won the first four or five games but not with any swagger and we could all see the writing on the wall and then it all went pear shaped and nothing has really changed, we had a bit of consistency a few weeks back but we are still shit. As I stated in the first sentence of my post, when was the last time we were at it ? The answer is 22-23 as outlined by the matches highlighted and there were many others too. Yes there were a handful of brain farts as there are every season, but that was the pinnacle for me. I write this with respect but to claim that a treble winning side showed signs of decline is absurd to me.

[PeterParker]

Saying shit like this is not helping his cause....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/guardiola-issues-shock-arsenal-verdict-as-man-city-fade-in-title-race/ar-AA1UOYaX?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=69737df3bc254a2d9d7102f4463860cb&ei=21

Don't mind this to be honest. The media are making arse bigger than they actually are so that can come back and bite them.

[Scatman]

Saying shit like this is not helping his cause....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/guardiola-issues-shock-arsenal-verdict-as-man-city-fade-in-title-race/ar-AA1UOYaX?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=69737df3bc254a2d9d7102f4463860cb&ei=21

It was Fergie Mind Games 15 years ago and it worked a treat

[nottsblue]

Saying shit like this is not helping his cause....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/guardiola-issues-shock-arsenal-verdict-as-man-city-fade-in-title-race/ar-AA1UOYaX?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=69737df3bc254a2d9d7102f4463860cb&ei=21

Don't mind this to be honest. The media are making arse bigger than they actually are so that can come back and bite them.

To be fair if he said we were in a good position he’d be pilloried

[zabbadabbado]

Rumours going around Slott going to be sacked by Liverpool this week.

Alonso lined up to be their next Manager.

I think Liverpool fear we might be in for him so will move on him fast.

Enrique looks more likely for us at this point,.

[zuricity]

Rumours going around Slott going to be sacked by Liverpool this week.

Alonso lined up to be their next Manager.

I think Liverpool fear we might be in for him so will move on him fast.

Enrique looks more likely for us at this point,.

I hope scouse do get Alonso, they have spent all their winnings on injury ridden or poor performers.

He will have no margin or money to work with. Also they are all old now. Defense needs a complete rebuild midfield is slow and their attack is either injured or about to be pensioned off

Xhaka, was fundamental to Alonso's winning team, he's been an inspiration at Sunderland. Was missing injured at whu . He is telling sunderland to go for the Leverkusen goalie, who is quite a good goalie.

I don't like Xhaka's arrogance , but he seems to get teams performing. I think this helped Alonso.

Scouse were very lucky with VAR and extra time in games early season

[Scatman]

What's Ancelotti doing in September? And Deschamps? Some big names will be available after the world cup. I'm not too worried about Liverpool panicking about Alonso

[Outcast]

Rumours going around Slott going to be sacked by Liverpool this week.

Alonso lined up to be their next Manager.

I think Liverpool fear we might be in for him so will move on him fast.

Enrique looks more likely for us at this point,.

I hope scouse do get Alonso, they have spent all their winnings on injury ridden or poor performers.

He will have no margin or money to work with. Also they are all old now. Defense needs a complete rebuild midfield is slow and their attack is either injured or about to be pensioned off

Xhaka, was fundamental to Alonso's winning team, he's been an inspiration at Sunderland. Was missing injured at whu . He is telling sunderland to go for the Leverkusen goalie, who is quite a good goalie.

I don't like Xhaka's arrogance , but he seems to get teams performing. I think this helped Alonso.

Scouse were very lucky with VAR and extra time in games early season

Last time you made a prediction [Arseanl vs Villa] we ended up not winning a game until yesterday. In fact you were confident Villa would get the win and we'll end up top.

[Blue Jam]

Keep Pep.

[zuricity]

Rumours going around Slott going to be sacked by Liverpool this week.

Alonso lined up to be their next Manager.

I think Liverpool fear we might be in for him so will move on him fast.

Enrique looks more likely for us at this point,.

I hope scouse do get Alonso, they have spent all their winnings on injury ridden or poor performers.

He will have no margin or money to work with. Also they are all old now. Defense needs a complete rebuild midfield is slow and their attack is either injured or about to be pensioned off

Xhaka, was fundamental to Alonso's winning team, he's been an inspiration at Sunderland. Was missing injured at whu . He is telling sunderland to go for the Leverkusen goalie, who is quite a good goalie.

I don't like Xhaka's arrogance , but he seems to get teams performing. I think this helped Alonso.

Scouse were very lucky with VAR and extra time in games early season

Last time you made a prediction [Arseanl vs Villa] we ended up not winning a game until yesterday. In fact you were confident Villa would get the win and we'll end up top.

I don't think there is a prediction in those sentences you have just quoted. What has City's run of bad form got to do with whether Villa beat Arsenal or not ?

[Im_Spartacus]

The stats are largely irrelevant, you can’t say that a team was worse or better on the basis of scoring 7 goals less or conceding a handful of goals more from one season to the next and calling it the start of a decline. The fact is what we saw on the pitch, we’d not beaten Madrid in the CL before over two legs, they beat us before and have beaten us since but by god they didn’t come close during the treble season. I stand by what I say, I certainly didn’t any sign whatsoever that we were in decline, if a team can win a treble under decline then I’m a Dutchman. We won the league the following season too, admittedly we were not at the sparkling brilliance of the season before we had to grind it out a little, but you cannot be in decline and win the league. In my view the decline started at the beginning of the 24-25 season, we won the first four or five games but not with any swagger and we could all see the writing on the wall and then it all went pear shaped and nothing has really changed, we had a bit of consistency a few weeks back but we are still shit. As I stated in the first sentence of my post, when was the last time we were at it ? The answer is 22-23 as outlined by the matches highlighted and there were many others too. Yes there were a handful of brain farts as there are every season, but that was the pinnacle for me. I write this with respect but to claim that a treble winning side showed signs of decline is absurd to me.

Winning the treble is the pinnacle of achievement - but it's not automatically the primary measure of "performance", and that's a really important nuance. The trophies signalled the peak achievement in that particular era, but it wasn't the era's statistical performance peak.

If you want to understand how good a team truly is, you always look first at the league because over 38 league games, variance fades - wheras cup games outcomes can be over-amplified by minor variables like a bad referreeing call, a deflection, Pep's tactical brainfarts etc.

To win a treble you have to be a remarkable team, but you also need to have less of that cup variation/amplification - or that variation goes in your favour at key times. Otherwise we'd have surely won a treble in 2017 and 2018 when we were most dominant!

By repeatable indicators (points, goals conceded, xG/xGA, shot volume, possession), the data proves empiricallty that we were considerably less dominant in the treble season than 2021–22, which however we want to dress it up, proves that performance had peaked the previous year.

Points: 93 (2021–22) → 89 (2022–23)
Wins/Draws/Losses: 29–6–3 → 28–5–5 (more losses)
Goals scored: 99 → 94
Goals conceded: 26 → 33
xG (chance quality/volume aggregated): 92.03 → 81.97
xGA (quality conceded): 25.09 → 33.63
Shots: 713 → 600
Possession: 68.4% → 65.4%

By all the same measures, city were most dominant in 2017 to 2019, they fell back a little the next 2 years and hit peak dominance again the year before winning the treble, since when we have had a pretty linear 3 year decline.

While the trophies tell one story, we can't simply ignore the data or say it's irrelevant - at elite performance level, the data shows decline long before anything else is visible, and you can bet your house City knows and has all the evidence - for me therefore the question is why the fuck they didn't strengthen immediately after the CL final.

Interestingly, using the same measures for this season, we're practically identical in terms of overall performance from last year, but the nuance statistically is the xGA is significantly better, while our xG has declined - the result is that we see a markedly better league position than last year, but much of that can be explained by the drop off in performance of both Liverpool and Chelsea, rather than us actually being any better overall. It does also show however the argument that defence is more important than attack in terms of league position.

If the xG situation doesn't improve in the data by the end of the season, Guardiola doesn't deserve to be here next year.

[nottsblue]

The stats are largely irrelevant, you can’t say that a team was worse or better on the basis of scoring 7 goals less or conceding a handful of goals more from one season to the next and calling it the start of a decline. The fact is what we saw on the pitch, we’d not beaten Madrid in the CL before over two legs, they beat us before and have beaten us since but by god they didn’t come close during the treble season. I stand by what I say, I certainly didn’t any sign whatsoever that we were in decline, if a team can win a treble under decline then I’m a Dutchman. We won the league the following season too, admittedly we were not at the sparkling brilliance of the season before we had to grind it out a little, but you cannot be in decline and win the league. In my view the decline started at the beginning of the 24-25 season, we won the first four or five games but not with any swagger and we could all see the writing on the wall and then it all went pear shaped and nothing has really changed, we had a bit of consistency a few weeks back but we are still shit. As I stated in the first sentence of my post, when was the last time we were at it ? The answer is 22-23 as outlined by the matches highlighted and there were many others too. Yes there were a handful of brain farts as there are every season, but that was the pinnacle for me. I write this with respect but to claim that a treble winning side showed signs of decline is absurd to me.

Winning the treble is the pinnacle of achievement - but it's not automatically the primary measure of "performance", and that's a really important nuance. The trophies signalled the peak achievement in that particular era, but it wasn't the era's statistical performance peak.

If you want to understand how good a team truly is, you always look first at the league because over 38 league games, variance fades - wheras cup games outcomes can be over-amplified by minor variables like a bad referreeing call, a deflection, Pep's tactical brainfarts etc.

To win a treble you have to be a remarkable team, but you also need to have less of that cup variation/amplification - or that variation goes in your favour at key times. Otherwise we'd have surely won a treble in 2017 and 2018 when we were most dominant!

By repeatable indicators (points, goals conceded, xG/xGA, shot volume, possession), the data proves empiricallty that we were considerably less dominant in the treble season than 2021–22, which however we want to dress it up, proves that performance had peaked the previous year.

Points: 93 (2021–22) → 89 (2022–23)
Wins/Draws/Losses: 29–6–3 → 28–5–5 (more losses)
Goals scored: 99 → 94
Goals conceded: 26 → 33
xG (chance quality/volume aggregated): 92.03 → 81.97
xGA (quality conceded): 25.09 → 33.63
Shots: 713 → 600
Possession: 68.4% → 65.4%

By all the same measures, city were most dominant in 2017 to 2019, they fell back a little the next 2 years and hit peak dominance again the year before winning the treble, since when we have had a pretty linear 3 year decline.

While the trophies tell one story, we can't simply ignore the data or say it's irrelevant - at elite performance level, the data shows decline long before anything else is visible, and you can bet your house City knows and has all the evidence - for me therefore the question is why the fuck they didn't strengthen immediately after the CL final.

Interestingly, using the same measures for this season, we're practically identical in terms of overall performance from last year, but the nuance statistically is the xGA is significantly better, while our xG has declined - the result is that we see a markedly better league position than last year, but much of that can be explained by the drop off in performance of both Liverpool and Chelsea, rather than us actually being any better overall. It does also show however the argument that defence is more important than attack in terms of league position.

If the xG situation doesn't improve in the data by the end of the season, Guardiola doesn't deserve to be here next year.

Great analysis Sparty. I’ve always said our peak in terms of style and dominance was between 2017-19.

And I was chatting to a mate the other day and we were discussing how many of today’s team get in the team of 17-19

And honestly, there aren’t many from this side that make it. Gvardiol Rodri were two definitely. Even Haaland and Cherki are borderline and probably don’t make it. I’m talking about a best XI for a one off game for the sake of argument

[PeterParker]

I am terrified by the idea that he isn't going in the summer, and that he wants to stay to feed his ego.