Goals for Pellegrini

[zuricity]

Sorry Ted, but just don't agree that Sorry and Trixie didn't think he was the man for the job. They knew exactly who and what he was and they knew the environment surrounding him regarding players, If in fact much of that is true. They knew all this but still only a short time ago gave him a massive long term contract....2+2 never equal5 mate.

This is quite simply a grab for control. Cementing their positions in charge and ensuring that anyone who could possibly challenge them is out if the way.....Swales anyone?

I am all for stability and having it embedded into the club rather than the manager but Sorry is a businessman and Trixie has nevewr been a coach...and we trust them to control the football at our club.

Sorry succeeded in hugely expanding the commercial side at Barca, but the Barca system and football culture was already in place well before either arrived.

If we are to employ Pellegrini, and he's as good as the advertising says, then fine, as long as he controls the football and not a pair of meddling suits.

you saved me from writing this John , Chapaux!

Pixie and Dixie have never created anything , through connections they got into cushy jobs and as part of the dynamic of the business were able to add something. So far much of the commercial
side to City has been through the owners ancilliary investments.It wouldn't surprise me if Mercedes soon become a major sponsor. Our owner owns a large chunk of that empire too.

These two couldn't put a squad together the way Roberto did and build a team playing beautiful football. They would be laughed off the training pitch. Roberto new what was needed to get to the top level. These two 'yes' men will get found out in time.

[zuricity]

On the subject of targets, why all of a sudden should we have patience with a stranger who we don't know (whoever he is), when patience was patently missing from the treatment given to Mancini who had already won us the League.

The lynch mob on here can't be allowed double standards, can they? Mancini was heavily criticised on here for not winning the Prem with what his executioners said was the best squad. Mancini had no excuse for coming 2nd. If we strengthen further and bring in a BETTER (?) manager. Not only would I expect to win the League, I will fucking demand it or his arse on a platter...with veg of course.

Just a thought about all this...how was it Sorry and Trixie trusted Mancini with a long contract only a few weeks ago, yet only trust their new guy with 2 years?

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

again , well said

[john68]

Merci Zurich.

So few question or examine anything these days. Talk about sheep.
So many lies told by P and D. Not little ones but great big fucking obvious ones that are clearly not true and people gladly accept this shit without blinking. Then carry on as though none of it matters.

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

...And if Mancini, who they now decide was shite and not up to it, was worth a long contract, why is their new choice only worth 2 years.

It may be worth remembering that there have been 2 great football dynasties in England since the 60s. The 1st was Liverpool. Their stability was led by Shankly and their culture was based on the boot room. Succeeding managers after Shankly came from the bootroom and that is what gave it its longevity. It was designed and run by FOOTBALLERS.
The 2nd great dynasty was and still is that at the swamp led by the patriarch that is Taggart. Moyes may have taken over but you can bet his lord and bacon protector will be on hand to ensure that the change is as seamless as problem free for Moyes as posiible....IT WAS DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS...EDWARDS HAD FUCK ALL TO WITH IT.
The Barca dynasty was already in place..DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS.

We on the other hand give carte blanche to control the whole of football at City. From the nursery to the 1st team to a pair of fucking power crazed suits.

Even Bayern have Hoeness and KHR overseeing Munich.

You could not make it up....but all is ok. the PR department said so....my fucking arse.

[zuricity]

Merci Zurich.

So few question or examine anything these days. Talk about sheep.
So many lies told by P and D. Not little ones but great big fucking obvious ones that are clearly not true and people gladly accept this shit without blinking. Then carry on as though none of it matters.

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

...And if Mancini, who they now decide was shite and not up to it, was worth a long contract, why is their new choice only worth 2 years.

It may be worth remembering that there have been 2 great football dynasties in England since the 60s. The 1st was Liverpool. Their stability was led by Shankly and their culture was based on the boot room. Succeeding managers after Shankly came from the bootroom and that is what gave it its longevity. It was designed and run by FOOTBALLERS.
The 2nd great dynasty was and still is that at the swamp led by the patriarch that is Taggart. Moyes may have taken over but you can bet his lord and bacon protector will be on hand to ensure that the change is as seamless as problem free for Moyes as posiible....IT WAS DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS...EDWARDS HAD FUCK ALL TO WITH IT.
The Barca dynasty was already in place..DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS.

We on the other hand give carte blanche to control the whole of football at City. From the nursery to the 1st team to a pair of fucking power crazed suits.

Even Bayern have Hoeness and KHR overseeing Munich.

You could not make it up....but all is ok. the PR department said so....my fucking arse.

is that sheep or horse ?? :-)

Bayern also have the Kaiser to oversee things too. !

[kinkylola]

On the subject of targets, why all of a sudden should we have patience with a stranger who we don't know (whoever he is), when patience was patently missing from the treatment given to Mancini who had already won us the League.

The lynch mob on here can't be allowed double standards, can they? Mancini was heavily criticised on here for not winning the Prem with what his executioners said was the best squad. Mancini had no excuse for coming 2nd. If we strengthen further and bring in a BETTER (?) manager. Not only would I expect to win the League, I will fucking demand it or his arse on a platter...with veg of course.

Just a thought about all this...how was it Sorry and Trixie trusted Mancini with a long contract only a few weeks ago, yet only trust their new guy with 2 years?

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

well, from what it seems ... Mancini himself made a power grab after the title winning season, which isn't unreasonable, but I think it did highlight that he isn't always going to play nice, and he probably is not the right person to head an organization that wants consistency and understanding throughout the entire setup.

I would say the damage he (his team, lombardo) did to the youth setup/development would probably be enough to get someone moved on really. I don't think the importance of a productive youth system can be emphasized enough. Beyond that Mancini seemed to have lost it with the players, and kept strange habits and employed friends and even his sons in our reserve team.

With scum-face retiring, the board probably had a sit down to evaluate how to best attack this opportunity, and the end result was 'not mancini.'

Maybe it's because he couldn't get the most out of the players they brought in, so should they be gung-ho about bringing in more with him there? What if we buy isco and he flops and it's because of Mancini? We don't want to create a galacticos team here, we want a fully functional, integrated, high level team. Do the scum have massive stars in each position? Jesus, I don't even rate half their players, and the other half are not any better than what we,chelsea, arsenal or even spuds have at our disposal (with the exception of RVP, which was a coup for them). There are different reasons why they won the league by a margin, and whatever Mancini's talents are as a coach, I don't think man management and cooperation are among them.

SO how to proceed? Do you throw your lot behind Mancini, who by reports, has a fractious relationship with our key players AT BEST .. or do you stick with Tricky and Sorry, and reboot the manager position into an integrated team.

Let's not forget that this is a key point in our transition from Rich team -> Title winners -> perennial powerhouse and dynasty. A good plan (our club development plan for example) executed poorly and slowly is much much much worse than a decent plant executed quickly and decisively.

I think everyone can see the merit in the system that we want to set up (ala Barca integrated club blah blah) ... so why not execute now? I think people are right when they say that we always knew what we were getting with Mancini, and that was someone focused on short term success, and by any measure, achieved that. He was never the person to develop our youth, or be a 5, 10, 20 year manager. Maybe we saw him being around and winning a bit more over the next couple of years, but looking back on all of it, and what i've heard recently, and our stated aim of developing youth, I don't think the plan was to ever have him here for more than 5 years. Maybe that was accelerated by certain events, hard for any of us to say ... but I think the decision was made for us to move on to the next phase of development, and that phase never involved mancini on any level from the get-go.

I see Pelligrini as also being a transitional figure by design. a 2 year deal, an older, savvy coach ... comfortable with a set up behind him where he isn't necessarily tied into the daily running of the club, or transfers ... just gameday and prep.

Mancini wanted control of everything, he was never going to have that, and we were right not to give it to him.

Bright days are ahead, I can see pelligrini coming in for a few years, possibly beyond the 2 contractual ones, and winning ... then stepping down and Vieira stepping into the role and being our Pep. I think that's a pretty clear progression plan. And I like it.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

That's what I've been wondering all along. Mancini as a man and a manager never changed. He was ALWAYS authoritarian, my way or the highway type. He was ALWAYS moaning about transfers. He was NEVER arm around the shoulder, bezzie mates with players manager. EVER. He was ALWAYS stubborn about the tactics. Generally ruthless guy.

None of that was news to ANYONE. Some people pretend that there was this new side of him coming out all of the sudden but I knew all that all along. He was like that in Italy and he was like that with us when we were winning things. Hell, look at the first months after he was appointed and how he treated players he didn't fancy. You ALL knew that. As did Beg-Sor. So why give him new contract at all?

I see Pelligrini as also being a transitional figure by design. a 2 year deal, an older, savvy coach ... comfortable with a set up behind him where he isn't necessarily tied into the daily running of the club, or transfers ... just gameday and prep.

I almost never agree with you over anything but I really really genuinely hope you are wrong. All joking aside, this guy needs to have strong backing to even stand a chance. This is Beg-Sor's guy. They NEED to back him or they themselves should be the next target. That would mean Mancini was sacked just for the sake of it and that is NOT how you improve as a Club. No way.

[kinkylola]

Merci Zurich.

So few question or examine anything these days. Talk about sheep.
So many lies told by P and D. Not little ones but great big fucking obvious ones that are clearly not true and people gladly accept this shit without blinking. Then carry on as though none of it matters.

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

...And if Mancini, who they now decide was shite and not up to it, was worth a long contract, why is their new choice only worth 2 years.

It may be worth remembering that there have been 2 great football dynasties in England since the 60s. The 1st was Liverpool. Their stability was led by Shankly and their culture was based on the boot room. Succeeding managers after Shankly came from the bootroom and that is what gave it its longevity. It was designed and run by FOOTBALLERS.
The 2nd great dynasty was and still is that at the swamp led by the patriarch that is Taggart. Moyes may have taken over but you can bet his lord and bacon protector will be on hand to ensure that the change is as seamless as problem free for Moyes as posiible....IT WAS DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS...EDWARDS HAD FUCK ALL TO WITH IT.
The Barca dynasty was already in place..DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS.

We on the other hand give carte blanche to control the whole of football at City. From the nursery to the 1st team to a pair of fucking power crazed suits.

Even Bayern have Hoeness and KHR overseeing Munich.

You could not make it up....but all is ok. the PR department said so....my fucking arse.

If our actions right now were executed with the idea of having Vieira as manager in 5 years, would you ahve the same objections? And would that be an excellent organic development from Player -> Youth Coach -> first team coach?

And of course the people running the team are suits, personally, I don't want a half punch-drunk former player running the direction of a club that will have substantial commercial interests globally. As far as you know, both of "The 2" are just as much fans of the game as your or I, even if they aren't City born and bred. That's just assumption ... but they are suits, with globally recognized experience and success in global business.

[Wooders]

His flaws were under the microscope this season and were magnified - the owners couldnt see him fixing the issues (remember when he was given the contract it was publicly known that the board stipulated he worked on his man management), if anything they were worse than ever, so he went

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

His flaws were under the microscope this season and were magnified - the owners couldnt see him fixing the issues (remember when he was given the contract it was publicly known that the board stipulated he worked on his man management), if anything they were worse than ever, so he went

But that's what I'm saying. Did Mancini ever strike you as kind of guy who were willing to change his ways just because some suit asked him to? If anything, I'm sure it made him MORE determined to be in his worst behaviour. Extremely poor judge of character if they thought he'd change. Not just that type of man at all.

[kinkylola]

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

That's what I've been wondering all along. Mancini as a man and a manager never changed. He was ALWAYS authoritarian, my way or the highway type. He was ALWAYS moaning about transfers. He was NEVER arm around the shoulder, bezzie mates with players manager. EVER. He was ALWAYS stubborn about the tactics. Generally ruthless guy.

None of that was news to ANYONE. Some people pretend that there was this new side of him coming out all of the sudden but I knew all that all along. He was like that in Italy and he was like that with us when we were winning things. Hell, look at the first months after he was appointed and how he treated players he didn't fancy. You ALL knew that. As did Beg-Sor. So why give him new contract at all?

I see Pelligrini as also being a transitional figure by design. a 2 year deal, an older, savvy coach ... comfortable with a set up behind him where he isn't necessarily tied into the daily running of the club, or transfers ... just gameday and prep.

I almost never agree with you over anything but I really really genuinely hope you are wrong. All joking aside, this guy needs to have strong backing to even stand a chance. This is Beg-Sor's guy. They NEED to back him or they themselves should be the next target. That would mean Mancini was sacked just for the sake of it and that is NOT how you improve as a Club. No way.

I did not mean that they would not back him, but you're not hiring a 60 year old thinking he's going to lead the club for 20+ years are you? This is transition ... it doesn't mean that no one cares about what is happening during the transition, which is exactly why Mancini was fired; they cared about how the transition from buying club to talent producing club would be handled, while still being in contention for winning trophies.

... but i'm also not sure what you were joking about! haha

[kinkylola]

His flaws were under the microscope this season and were magnified - the owners couldnt see him fixing the issues (remember when he was given the contract it was publicly known that the board stipulated he worked on his man management), if anything they were worse than ever, so he went

But that's what I'm saying. Did Mancini ever strike you as kind of guy who were willing to change his ways just because some suit asked him to? If anything, I'm sure it made him MORE determined to be in his worst behaviour. Extremely poor judge of character if they thought he'd change. Not just that type of man at all.

Also ... seems like new contract had a clause for only having to pay him 1 year if he was let go. I read that somewhere I think.

They probably gave him a raise to get the stipulation in ... and then fired him. That being said, i'm not too sure how long he had left on his current deal, if it was very short, that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

[Lee_R]

Two trophies and/or top 2 in league and CL qtrs minimum.

Im excited by what Ive read but concerned about fitness and his preference of using
a small squad of core players (as reported)

[kinkylola]

Oh right ... goals for Pelligrini:

1. Be good, win
2. Don't be bad, don't lose.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

That's what I've been wondering all along. Mancini as a man and a manager never changed. He was ALWAYS authoritarian, my way or the highway type. He was ALWAYS moaning about transfers. He was NEVER arm around the shoulder, bezzie mates with players manager. EVER. He was ALWAYS stubborn about the tactics. Generally ruthless guy.

None of that was news to ANYONE. Some people pretend that there was this new side of him coming out all of the sudden but I knew all that all along. He was like that in Italy and he was like that with us when we were winning things. Hell, look at the first months after he was appointed and how he treated players he didn't fancy. You ALL knew that. As did Beg-Sor. So why give him new contract at all?

I see Pelligrini as also being a transitional figure by design. a 2 year deal, an older, savvy coach ... comfortable with a set up behind him where he isn't necessarily tied into the daily running of the club, or transfers ... just gameday and prep.

I almost never agree with you over anything but I really really genuinely hope you are wrong. All joking aside, this guy needs to have strong backing to even stand a chance. This is Beg-Sor's guy. They NEED to back him or they themselves should be the next target. That would mean Mancini was sacked just for the sake of it and that is NOT how you improve as a Club. No way.

I did not mean that they would not back him, but you're not hiring a 60 year old thinking he's going to lead the club for 20+ years are you? This is transition ... it doesn't mean that no one cares about what is happening during the transition, which is exactly why Mancini was fired; they cared about how the transition from buying club to talent producing club would be handled, while still being in contention for winning trophies.

... but i'm also not sure what you were joking about! haha

Joking about expectations in this topic.

I don't understand the talk about "transitional period" at all. Transition to what? Looking at the team we have I would say we are at very least on the brink. Even objectively saying we are one of the top 10 teams (and by team here I mean the players and even management that was sacked) in the world. Couple of key additions in summer and we really genuinely should be competing for a long time.

[Wooders]

Transition to a team that has a steady line of talent produced by the academy - transition to a club ethos instilled in the likes of barca, bayern and, dare i say, the rags

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Transition to a team that has a steady line of talent produced by the academy - transition to a club ethos instilled in the likes of barca, bayern and, dare i say, the rags

Bayern have produced lot of good players but essentially have been buying team for past decade or so. Their strategy has mostly been to let "smaller" teams in Germany and to lesser extent abroad bring through these players and then steal them JUST when they are on the verge of a break through. Same goes for rags really.

Barcelona, yeah that's the model they are aiming for sure but what does Pellegrini have to do with that?

[zuricity]

Transition to a team that has a steady line of talent produced by the academy - transition to a club ethos instilled in the likes of barca, bayern and, dare i say, the rags

You're opening a can of worms with those sentences. i hope John68 is on his coffee break

[john68]

Wahey, KINKYLOLA

"From what it seems?"...Evidence please...or from what it seems remains speculation and innuendo. And where did this shit come from? The media....woo woo, and they wouldn't lie to us would they. What bit of power was Mancini grabbing at? Don't remember anyone trying to grab anything.

What damage to the youth system is that?...and please be specific. What bad habits are they? Nail Biting? Drinking wine with his pasta?

The board probably had a sit down...they could have probably had a cup of tea and a fucking biscuit. Another piece of damning guesswork against Mancini.

I love the next bit...He never got the best out of the players they got for him...so they never trusted him. He won the fucking League with those underachieving players and they never bothered buying the ones he wanted to strengthen. Remember Marwood getting the blame for that? You can't get much higher than 1st with underachievers...shame that.

What if Isco flops for Mancini...what if he flops BECAUSE OF the next guy...WHAT IF HE HADN'T?

If we don't want a galacticos team here...I suggest you check the names on the wish list thread on here. It may suggest a Galacticos team is just what most fans want.

I don't suppose it matters much whether you personally rate any rag's players but remember they didn't just beat us in the league and as bad as they may be...they also beat every other team.

I never said that sacking Mancini was wrong, you assume that. My gripe is that the reasons they have given for his sacking are lies and bullshit. I have seen too many managers wander into the sunset to worry too long about a well paid off Mancini. But please don't treat us fans like fucking sheep.

Neither have I suggested any opposition to an integrated system. I am all in favour of stability embedded into a club. I just happen to think that the design of our football culture and its subsequent control would be better served being run and controlled by someone with football knowledge and not a businessman in a suit and shiny shoes.

Personally, I think if a grown man needs to be cuddled to do his job, he ain't worth a wank. Millions of people go to work every day and do a professional job...can't stand their bosses....His man management was that horrific we actually won trophies...weakens your argument a bit. Don't believe what you have no evidence for. And check out Taggart's hair dryer and boot chucking for good management style.

I'll leave it at that, I think I have made my point. I am not defending Mancini, nor have any intention of being pushed into a corner to do so. I am accusing Pixie and Dixie of treating City fans as sheep by lying through their back teeth.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Personally, I think if a grown man needs to be cuddled to do his job, he ain't worth a wank. Millions of people go to work every day and do a professional job...can't stand their bosses....His man management was that horrific we actually won trophies...weakens your argument a bit. Don't believe what you have no evidence for. And check out Taggart's hair dryer and boot chucking for good management style.

Again, that's EXACTLY what I was trying to say on numerous topics as well. As a matter of fact, my new boss of past six months is pretty cuntish and don't really know shit about what's going. What do I do though? I come to work, do it as well as I've ever done, go home and don't think about it. Unfortunately it's not ME who gets to decide who is my boss. I just get on with things.

Even more so in football. Manager acting as a dictator.... I can't understand how football team could operate properly in any other environment. Holdin hands by campfire singing Kumbayah and talking about how sensitive everyone feels right now.... that's not the way of the football. You expect nit and grit on when they start playing, you don't get that attitude by pampering.

[john68]

Merci Zurich.

So few question or examine anything these days. Talk about sheep.
So many lies told by P and D. Not little ones but great big fucking obvious ones that are clearly not true and people gladly accept this shit without blinking. Then carry on as though none of it matters.

Maine Road Memories gave a clue to what was happening but nobody commented. There was a long piece about Pixie and Dixie giving Mancini a long contract in the full knowledge of who and what he was, only a short time ago. It wasn't a normal contract by today's standards...it was very long term. Now they give us reasons they already knew at that time as reasons for getting rid of him...What do 2 + 2 ADD UP TO?

...And if Mancini, who they now decide was shite and not up to it, was worth a long contract, why is their new choice only worth 2 years.

It may be worth remembering that there have been 2 great football dynasties in England since the 60s. The 1st was Liverpool. Their stability was led by Shankly and their culture was based on the boot room. Succeeding managers after Shankly came from the bootroom and that is what gave it its longevity. It was designed and run by FOOTBALLERS.
The 2nd great dynasty was and still is that at the swamp led by the patriarch that is Taggart. Moyes may have taken over but you can bet his lord and bacon protector will be on hand to ensure that the change is as seamless as problem free for Moyes as posiible....IT WAS DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS...EDWARDS HAD FUCK ALL TO WITH IT.
The Barca dynasty was already in place..DESIGNED AND RUN BY FOOTBALLERS.

We on the other hand give carte blanche to control the whole of football at City. From the nursery to the 1st team to a pair of fucking power crazed suits.

Even Bayern have Hoeness and KHR overseeing Munich.

You could not make it up....but all is ok. the PR department said so....my fucking arse.

If our actions right now were executed with the idea of having Vieira as manager in 5 years, would you ahve the same objections? And would that be an excellent organic development from Player -> Youth Coach -> first team coach?

And of course the people running the team are suits, personally, I don't want a half punch-drunk former player running the direction of a club that will have substantial commercial interests globally. As far as you know, both of "The 2" are just as much fans of the game as your or I, even if they aren't City born and bred. That's just assumption ... but they are suits, with globally recognized experience and success in global business.

Kinky,
Why are all your posts in this preceeded by "IF" If our actions now are being executed with the idea of havin Donal Fucking Duck as our manager...and incense?

And why in God's name would an ex player have to be fucking punch drunk...this has gone beyond ridiculous. and nobody is suggesting they are City fans...you're just making this shit up as you go along. Is it a script for the Edinburgh festival?