Pellegrini Satisfometer

[Alex Sapphire]

far too many words in this thread
Can anyone summarise it for me please

In rhyming couplets

[DoomMerchant]

far too many words in this thread
Can anyone summarise it for me please

In rhyming couplets

No. No one is capable of that feat.

[Beefymcfc]

Good to see the debate is back on track and we're talking the present.

Ferran and Txiki have been brought in to control the club and it is they that are making the decisions, with input from the manager.

When it comes down to it, it's Txiki and Pellers who make the decisions on the pitch and it's the pair of them that will take the glory when they succeed, or be lambasted if it fails.

I think it's a winner but who knows, only time will tell.

[zuricity]

far too many words in this thread
Can anyone summarise it for me please

In rhyming couplets

Iambic pentameters ok for you ?

[Nigels Tackle]

far too many words in this thread
Can anyone summarise it for me please

In rhyming couplets

some are inferring that...

he comes from chile li le
to manage man city

[Original Dub]

Good to see the debate is back on track and we're talking the present.

Ferran and Txiki have been brought in to control the club and it is they that are making the decisions, with input from the manager.

When it comes down to it, it's Txiki and Pellers who make the decisions on the pitch and it's the pair of them that will take the glory when they succeed, or be lambasted if it fails.

I think it's a winner but who knows, only time will tell.

If they hadn't been brought in, then it would have been the sheikh and co to take the glory and get lambasted. Is that what you think?

[Beefymcfc]

Good to see the debate is back on track and we're talking the present.

Ferran and Txiki have been brought in to control the club and it is they that are making the decisions, with input from the manager.

When it comes down to it, it's Txiki and Pellers who make the decisions on the pitch and it's the pair of them that will take the glory when they succeed, or be lambasted if it fails.

I think it's a winner but who knows, only time will tell.

If they hadn't been brought in, then it would have been the sheikh and co to take the glory and get lambasted. Is that what you think?

Oh fuck off with your bullshit OD. Let's cut the crap about the owner and talk about what's here and now. The good Sheikh puts the money in and allows the rest to do their jobs. Ferran and Glick are there to build the club and bring the money in. Txiki and Pellers are there to bring on the football.

Just cut the thread, cut the fucking board mate because if we're going to take that view we may as well all fuck off because the only people we talk about is the Sheikh. Tell me, was it the Sheikhs fault that Joe fucked up?

I don't get you, why have you had a go at my post, why so defensive of it? It wasn't provocative in any way. I suppose if we win something we can say it's Txiki and Pellers but if we fail we can just debate .... errrr ..... the Sheikh and his failures. Right?

[Alex Sapphire]

Iambic pentameters ok for you ?

Go for it

[Original Dub]

Oh fuck off with your bullshit OD. Let's cut the crap about the owner and talk about what's here and now. The good Sheikh puts the money in and allows the rest to do their jobs. Ferran and Glick are there to build the club and bring the money in. Txiki and Pellers are there to bring on the football.

Just cut the thread, cut the fucking board mate because if we're going to take that view we may as well all fuck off because the only people we talk about is the Sheikh. Tell me, was it the Sheikhs fault that Joe fucked up?

I don't get you, why have you had a go at my post, why so defensive of it? It wasn't provocative in any way. I suppose if we win something we can say it's Txiki and Pellers but if we fail we can just debate .... errrr ..... the Sheikh and his failures. Right?

Not defensive beefy. I just think there is a big issue on this board with the change.

I know for a fact that a number of people want this spanish set up to fail and it disturbs me.

I don't know if you feel that way in some part. I can't figure you out. Each post seems to contradict the one before.

Change takes time. Over the last 12 months we've had major change. Now some folk carry on like it should never have happened before its even had a chance.

We are allowed target these spanish lads, but we are not allowed compare the current manager to the last one?

We are allowed to dicuss the elements of change that suit agendas. That's what I see these days.

Yet if we are constantly to discuss change, then the sheikh has to be discussed. He's the biggest change we've ever had and he is responsible for all the changes folk are moaning about.

Either stick to the stuff you can see on the football pitch or send a cv into the mirror because the rest of it is speculative horse shite with no other purpose than to suit an agenda.

This is not targeted at you beefy, but I've read enough rag tops to know bullshit when I see it.

[sheblue]

Isn't it funny the amount of talk in here and to date only 168 have voted.

[Ted Hughes]

If the Fernandinho deal had already been done, how come he had to waive his loyalty bonus in June in order to get it signed ?

Answer: It wasn't. It was 'talks' which established a desire from the player to sign & a potential willingness from his club to sell. Then it's down to the Count as to whether we see it through or spend the money elsewhere. He opted to buy Fernandinho.

When did Barca leak the details of Txiki meeting Pellegrini ? May ? City/Pellegrini had plenty of time to change targets & allocate the budget elsewhere. Fernandinho was one of the top mids in europe last season. Mancini fancied signing him & so did the Count, so he's here. He starts every game possible.

Hughes wanted Silva & Yaya Toure before Mancini arrived. Did Mancini veto it ? Of course not, he went after them full tilt because they are good & he saw a role for them. Same with Fernandinho.

In contrast, Mancini would have gone all out for Cavani & 'the Spaniards' were negotiating for him. Pellegrini has chosen to go for Negredo plus several other players instead, skimp on a cb, & possibly has some more money left in the transfer/wages kitty because of it but we lack a cb; why didn't 'the Spaniards' just sign one ? Ans: because the Count wanted Pepe & he decides.

The Count will have been given a general budget, a list of players/clubs we are already on good terms with in positions required & asked if there were any he specifically wanted as well as discussing which ones may be close to leaving.

The Count will have been told by Txiki, Soriano AND KHALDOON, that he will have to lose some players if he wants to continue making big signings on big wages & can't just stockpile players. This is something Mancini was also told, when we had the exact same nonsense/ people making up stories re Marwood. Even Mancini admitted in the end that he made the decision re signings & that his complaint was re targets missed, not those signed. All the bollocks about Marwood allegedly signing players was exactly that: bollocks. Pellegrini has stated the same re our signings now.

People prefer to believe both were lying because it suits their position.

The same bollocks Marwood suffered is now being levelled at the Spaniards . Of course there is a plan, but that plan isn't to force the manager to accept players, it is to manage the budget effectively. It seems that Kolo, Barry & Lescott are the first casualties & the Count is going along with this plan by allowing some players to go (wrong ones imo).

That WILL be partially down to the Spaniards of course, who will be encouaging the Count to lose older players on biggish wages, but it will also give him space to deal if he plays ball, especially if we sell a big one like Dzeko or similar.

The 1st team squad signings however, will ultimately be picked by Pellegrini. He won't get the cash for his 1st choices unless he ships some out though. The kids we sign will be decided by Vieira Txiki Marwood etc seperate from the first team setup.

If Messi becomes available however, Txiki Soriano will do the deal but Sheikh Manasour will be the bloke who signs him, whether they like it or not. In the end, the club is run by Sheikh Mansour & Khaldoon, & they can put a stop to anything at any time.

They have decided they want two Spanish guys building the club for the future.

Best thing they ever did imo, but if people don't like it; blame the guys who made that decision.

Er yes. What are you talking about? F&T have been hired to run the club. In my view its an excellent decision. Txiki is DoF and his remit is to build and reshape the squad. I know this because Ferran said so. The Fernandinho deal was agreed in January and finalised in the summer. The Barry decision was taken at the end of last season.

As for Marwood and Txiki, Ferran was very clear

"We have Brian Marwood, who takes care of all the young football, and Txiki who takes care of the first-team."

And on managers or head coaches Ferran sees them having a shorter life cycle of 2 or 3 years but underpinning that will be the core squad as built and shaped by Txiki. Pellers is here as much for his willingness to buy into the way we are now doing things but it does not mean he has no say or input. Again to quote Ferran its as much a collaboration as anything else but the manager has to manage 'within the essence of what we do'. Pellers can suggest/recommend players and as long as they fit in with the overall budget and Txiki's vision of what the squad should be in terms of balance and numbers etc, etc I have no doubt we will go after them just as we did with Isco.

Its just how we operate. Chelsea operate the same way except we have people who know something about football. I just don't see why its a problem or why we have to get hysterical at the thought Pellers isn't controlling every aspect of the first team.

No need for the 'erm yes' etc smartarsed bollocks. The fact is we have signed a bunch of players many of whom, if you bother to take an interest, are connected to Pellegrini, not just Demichelis.

Fernandinho was not done in Jan at all, that is complete bullshit, we had to pull all kinds of tricks to appease their owner, in order to sign him. That ocurred after the Count had been talking with Txiki for some time. The idea that signing a bunch of players Pellegrini has followed for years is just a coincidence, is fucking ridiculous. Of course he wanted them.

You keep quoting Soriano but missing out the bits where he says the manager is in charge re the first team & their job is to set up the rest of the club to support it , why is that ?

[Hazy2]

If we lose Sunday is the count in a spin. Away form plus being 8th-11th, just asking a question here. I for one thought it would be a bumpy ride, for Pelli until he gets the players on the same page. I said that months ago, He has broke the curse of the chumps.The injuries/ mistakes plus the form of the keeper have made the 1st phase great /frustrating and crazy all at the same time, this must be wierd for him as he is the settled type, things in its place/ underpants laid out socks paired. Team in his head playing how he wants most of the time, no fuck ups week in week out, Spuds are in a similar place, Away from home they feel better than at WHL. I hope we do not have a misfire at home after a ton of goals,the red journos be in like flint. He might just get a taste of what Mancini had if the result goes the wrong way.11th on Sunday night will not be pretty.

[Ted Hughes]

If we lose Sunday is the count in a spin. Away form plus being 8th-11th, just asking a question here. I for one thought it would be a bumpy ride, for Pelli until he gets the players on the same page. I said that months ago, He has broke the curse of the chumps.The injuries/ mistakes plus the form of the keeper have made the 1st phase great /frustrating and crazy all at the same time, this must be wierd for him as he is the settled type, things in its place/ underpants laid out socks paired. Team in his head playing how he wants most of the time, no fuck ups week in week out, Spuds are in a similar place, Away from home they feel better than at WHL. I hope we do not have a misfire at home after a ton of goals,the red journos be in like flint. He might just get a taste of what Mancini had if the result goes the wrong way.11th on Sunday night will not be pretty.

I think the Count will get serious shit if we lose on Sunday & some of it will be deserved.

Until we play a sustained spell with VK in the team though, I won't be remotely writing him off. We don't function properly without him & that is a fact. It shouldn't be like that but it is the case & it has been for years, even when we won the title.

If the Count gets time to build a back 4 with Vinny in it & we can't compete, then he can fuck off imo. But until he gets that opportunity, I can only judge him on the attacking efforts, which are heading in the right direction imo.

[BobKowalski]

No need for the 'erm yes' etc smartarsed bollocks. The fact is we have signed a bunch of players many of whom, if you bother to take an interest, are connected to Pellegrini, not just Demichelis.

Fernandinho was not done in Jan at all, that is complete bullshit, we had to pull all kinds of tricks to appease their owner, in order to sign him. That ocurred after the Count had been talking with Pellegrini for some time. The idea that signing a bunch of players Pellegrini has followed for years is just a coincidence, is fucking ridiculous. Of course he wanted them.

You keep quoting Soriano but missing out the bits where he says the manager is in charge re the first team & their job is to set up the rest of the club to support it , why is that ?

You mean this bit?

'We are not telling the manager how to do his job, we are just providing for the manager technically skilled players who are talented enough to play this kind of beautiful football. He can then do that as he wants.’

Pellers is in charge of coaching the first team. He is given a remit- win trophies, play good football - and a squad of players to achieve this. Txiki's job is to take care of the first team. Txiki's job is to build a squad along with a footballing concept (philosophy). From an article following the sit down with Ferran

'The South American will look after short-term results and performances while Begiristain will work to the longer-term and, crucially, have the decisive say in the acquisition of players.'

I have said more than once that Pellers does have input on players as will any subsequent manager. Isco was clearly on Pellers wish list even if Txiki didn't go that extra mile to land the player.

I have zero issue with any of this. If you want to believe that Pellers is the main guy when it comes to the first team squad and Txiki is just there to play 'fetch' and go after the players that Pellers has identified and wants then knock yourself out. Although it does make you wonder how Txiki will build a squad and footballing philosophy for the long term if he has to pander to the short term needs of each and every new manager that we employ. The answer is that each new manager has to work within the footballing concepts as laid down by Txiki and in return Txiki has to be aware of any short term needs or requests from the manager in areas that need addressing. The current CB issue being a prime example.

[Ted Hughes]

No need for the 'erm yes' etc smartarsed bollocks. The fact is we have signed a bunch of players many of whom, if you bother to take an interest, are connected to Pellegrini, not just Demichelis.

Fernandinho was not done in Jan at all, that is complete bullshit, we had to pull all kinds of tricks to appease their owner, in order to sign him. That ocurred after the Count had been talking with Pellegrini for some time. The idea that signing a bunch of players Pellegrini has followed for years is just a coincidence, is fucking ridiculous. Of course he wanted them.

You keep quoting Soriano but missing out the bits where he says the manager is in charge re the first team & their job is to set up the rest of the club to support it , why is that ?

You mean this bit?

'We are not telling the manager how to do his job, we are just providing for the manager technically skilled players who are talented enough to play this kind of beautiful football. He can then do that as he wants.’

Pellers is in charge of coaching the first team. He is given a remit- win trophies, play good football - and a squad of players to achieve this. Txiki's job is to take care of the first team. Txiki's job is to build a squad along with a footballing concept (philosophy). From an article following the sit down with Ferran

'The South American will look after short-term results and performances while Begiristain will work to the longer-term and, crucially, have the decisive say in the acquisition of players.'

I have said more than once that Pellers does have input on players as will any subsequent manager. Isco was clearly on Pellers wish list even if Txiki didn't go that extra mile to land the player.

I have zero issue with any of this. If you want to believe that Pellers is the main guy when it comes to the first team squad and Txiki is just there to play 'fetch' and go after the players that Pellers has identified and wants then knock yourself out. Although it does make you wonder how Txiki will build a squad and footballing philosophy for the long term if he has to pander to the short term needs of each and every new manager that we employ. The answer is that each new manager has to work within the footballing concepts as laid down by Txiki and in return Txiki has to be aware of any short term needs or requests from the manager in areas that need addressing. The current CB issue being a prime example.

It is a perfect example. The Count wants Pepe. Txiki doesn't fancy paying over the odds for him. THAT is where his job comes in. Note: he didn't just go out & sign someone else, as people are suggesting he ( & Marwood) do.

He is working WITH Pellegrini to decide on the best solution. He will present alternatives & the Count will present some of his own & Txiki may also tell him he can have an expensive Pepe or similar, if we shift out enough wages of similar aged players.

They will negotiate exactly as would have happened with a Chairman board of directors, then a decision will be reached on who we sign & who we sell, exactly how any manager has to do.

The difference is that it will be Txiki/Soriano/Khaldoon who agree the outcome, not Peter Swales or Martin Edwards & a bunch of pipe smoking clowns.

[BobKowalski]

No need for the 'erm yes' etc smartarsed bollocks. The fact is we have signed a bunch of players many of whom, if you bother to take an interest, are connected to Pellegrini, not just Demichelis.

Fernandinho was not done in Jan at all, that is complete bullshit, we had to pull all kinds of tricks to appease their owner, in order to sign him. That ocurred after the Count had been talking with Pellegrini for some time. The idea that signing a bunch of players Pellegrini has followed for years is just a coincidence, is fucking ridiculous. Of course he wanted them.

You keep quoting Soriano but missing out the bits where he says the manager is in charge re the first team & their job is to set up the rest of the club to support it , why is that ?

You mean this bit?

'We are not telling the manager how to do his job, we are just providing for the manager technically skilled players who are talented enough to play this kind of beautiful football. He can then do that as he wants.’

Pellers is in charge of coaching the first team. He is given a remit- win trophies, play good football - and a squad of players to achieve this. Txiki's job is to take care of the first team. Txiki's job is to build a squad along with a footballing concept (philosophy). From an article following the sit down with Ferran

'The South American will look after short-term results and performances while Begiristain will work to the longer-term and, crucially, have the decisive say in the acquisition of players.'

I have said more than once that Pellers does have input on players as will any subsequent manager. Isco was clearly on Pellers wish list even if Txiki didn't go that extra mile to land the player.

I have zero issue with any of this. If you want to believe that Pellers is the main guy when it comes to the first team squad and Txiki is just there to play 'fetch' and go after the players that Pellers has identified and wants then knock yourself out. Although it does make you wonder how Txiki will build a squad and footballing philosophy for the long term if he has to pander to the short term needs of each and every new manager that we employ. The answer is that each new manager has to work within the footballing concepts as laid down by Txiki and in return Txiki has to be aware of any short term needs or requests from the manager in areas that need addressing. The current CB issue being a prime example.

It is a perfect example. The Count wants Pepe. Txiki doesn't fancy paying over the odds for him. THAT is where his job comes in. Note: he didn't just go out & sign someone else, as people are suggesting he ( & Marwood) do.

He is working WITH Pellegrini to decide on the best solution. He will present alternatives & the Count will present some of his own & Txiki may also tell him he can have an expensive Pepe or similar, if we shift out enough wages of similar aged players.

They will negotiate exactly as would have happened with a Chairman board of directors, then a decision will be reached on who we sign & who we sell, exactly how any manager has to do.

The difference is that it will be Txiki/Soriano/Khaldoon who agree the outcome, not Peter Swales or Martin Edwards & a bunch of pipe smoking clowns.

Agreed.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I said earlier in this thread that this season reminded me most so far of Keegan’s first, and since then other posters have compared Pellegrini to Keegan as a gambler (on the outcome of his attacking play). As this is a dull FIB, I took the opportunity to compare the current season’s results so far with those from Keegan’s debut, to see if they supported these impressions. All Keegan stats are from Wikipedia.

After 11 league games (out of 46) Keegan had won 6 drawn 1 and lost 4 – exactly the same as the current side (albeit out of 38). At home we had Won 4, drawn 1 lost 1 and away won 2 and lost 3. So we are better at home but worse away this season for the same overall total. Of course, it is a big jump from there to saying that the rest of this season will pan out the same as Kevin’s, but just for the sake of discussion, let’s suppose it did.

In Kev’s 46 game season that gave us 99 points and the title (108 goals scored and a GD of +56, Goater the division top scorer with 32). This was at a win percentage of 82.6% at home and 52.2% away (67.4% in aggregate) and an overall draw percentage of 13%. For a 38 game PL season that would translate into 26 wins and 5 draws (rounded figures) = 83 points. Enough to win the league, I think, in this crazy season.

If we had the same goals-to-games ratio as Keegan’s team then we would score 89 goals, but we are ahead of his rate so far this term and if we continue as we are (2.55 per game) then we would score 96.

Of course, Keegan’s squad significantly upped the success rate later in the season and we will have to do the same this time if we want to match his outcome, but let’s hope we don’t have to win two home games whilst playing most of the match with ten men (Benarbia and Berkovic sent off in consecutive home games)!

There's lot of similarities with the way Keegan and Pellegrini see the game but their shortcomings in the end of the day are quite different. Keegan was an innovator and for him making constant tactical changes and even changing the fundamental system every now and then was possibility....often when there was no need for it too. Pellegrini is pretty steady with his system but seems to need right type of guys for his system and therefore sometimes leaves us little bit vulnerable when the pieces don't work well together (and don't take that as tactical naivety). I agree that for both of them winning is not good enough, you need to with some style.

I'm starting to wonder whether Pellegrini either is suitable to Director of Football system. It seems to me that he is looking for right kind of player profiles and when the players are given to you, what you need most is tactical flexibility. To make talented group of players play to their strenghts and get results. To my recollection, he was talking about having been given wrong blend of players when he was in similar situation in Madrid.

He has clearly stated that he asked for the players he got. I don't understand this business of persisting with the idea that he has been told who to sign. Even the players themselves have, for the most part, talked about their past connections with Pellegrini.

The players he has been 'given' are the ones who were already at City, most of whom are pretty good. The signings are picked by the Count; he says so & they say so.

Its unlikely that Pellers was involved in all of the signings if only because of the timings. The Fernandinho deal was done in January and Txiki was working on the Navas deal for months beforehand. The squad is assembled and shaped primarily by Txiki. Its his job. Its the same with existing players. Barry was told at the end of last season that he would be surplus and whilst he may have hoped to impress the new manager the decision had already been made by Txiki. This is not to say Pellers or any future manager will not have input. Isco would have been down to Pellers and Demichelis is all Pellers but the composition of the squad is primarily down to Txiki.

All of this and the way we will work in the future was laid out by Ferran when he gave his interview in New York.

"The difference in role between Txiki and the manager is that the director of football has, and has to have, a long-term view. So what we are asking him to do is build a squad, but also football concepts, and a way of working that will last for the next 10 years"

Personally I have always liked the DoF structure with the manager/head coach focused on coaching the first team so the idea that Pellers did not pick the summer signings is no big deal. Its just the way we operate.

That really is the bottom line. If that isn't his job then what is it?

[Beefymcfc]

Oh fuck off with your bullshit OD. Let's cut the crap about the owner and talk about what's here and now. The good Sheikh puts the money in and allows the rest to do their jobs. Ferran and Glick are there to build the club and bring the money in. Txiki and Pellers are there to bring on the football.

Just cut the thread, cut the fucking board mate because if we're going to take that view we may as well all fuck off because the only people we talk about is the Sheikh. Tell me, was it the Sheikhs fault that Joe fucked up?

I don't get you, why have you had a go at my post, why so defensive of it? It wasn't provocative in any way. I suppose if we win something we can say it's Txiki and Pellers but if we fail we can just debate .... errrr ..... the Sheikh and his failures. Right?

Not defensive beefy. I just think there is a big issue on this board with the change.

I know for a fact that a number of people want this spanish set up to fail and it disturbs me.

I don't know if you feel that way in some part. I can't figure you out. Each post seems to contradict the one before.

Change takes time. Over the last 12 months we've had major change. Now some folk carry on like it should never have happened before its even had a chance.

We are allowed target these spanish lads, but we are not allowed compare the current manager to the last one?

We are allowed to dicuss the elements of change that suit agendas. That's what I see these days.

Yet if we are constantly to discuss change, then the sheikh has to be discussed. He's the biggest change we've ever had and he is responsible for all the changes folk are moaning about.

Either stick to the stuff you can see on the football pitch or send a cv into the mirror because the rest of it is speculative horse shite with no other purpose than to suit an agenda.

This is not targeted at you beefy, but I've read enough rag tops to know bullshit when I see it.

I can see where you are coming from in part but much of what you say isn't what I'm about. I'm one of those who supports anybody in the seat whether it be player, manager or board member. A few years ago I was asked why I gave Hughes my support even though it was quite obvious that he didn't have the qualities we required. My response was quite simply that I trusted our custodian and his men to run the club correctly and when the time came then I'll trust them again. Why should that change now?

Well, it hasn't. I've had a few rants on here about certain games and in particular the Bayern game. That was when we could clearly see that we'd set-up one way and stick with it until the end. This, coming after the farce of Villa made it even worse.

I think some people will use the sacking of the manager to beat Pellers with but that person is not me. I had no problem with Mancini moving on and understand why he went. The gripe that I had was the manner in which it went and my belief that it undermined our dismal showing in the cup final, one, that if we were fighting as one, should've won with ease.

My take is that I support everything at our club in the here and now and try not to dwell too much on yesterday. We can compare and contrast to different seasons and talk about the issues in hand, namely our shit away form. We can also bring in to question Txiki's roll alongside Pellers as the DoF and Manager should walk hand-in-hand to ensure maximum success. If that's not happening then I feel no reason to not discuss it, just as I'll talk positively when I think we're heading in the right direction.

There's no need to protect it mate, it's just us having a a discussion and although a few go over the top (like my rant against Bayern), it's a good place to discuss where we're at. Using the Sheikh as marker then we can probably say that he is the Dogs Danglies and everybody else has to be measured from there. Soriano and Glick are performing well as we are seeing revenues and infrastructure coming on nicely so it leaves the management group and the players to do the business and although they've done a half decent job they've still not quite sorted their shit out yet. Once that happens, which I'm sure it will, there will still be question marks on whether they really have what it takes.

[Ted Hughes]

I said earlier in this thread that this season reminded me most so far of Keegan’s first, and since then other posters have compared Pellegrini to Keegan as a gambler (on the outcome of his attacking play). As this is a dull FIB, I took the opportunity to compare the current season’s results so far with those from Keegan’s debut, to see if they supported these impressions. All Keegan stats are from Wikipedia.

After 11 league games (out of 46) Keegan had won 6 drawn 1 and lost 4 – exactly the same as the current side (albeit out of 38). At home we had Won 4, drawn 1 lost 1 and away won 2 and lost 3. So we are better at home but worse away this season for the same overall total. Of course, it is a big jump from there to saying that the rest of this season will pan out the same as Kevin’s, but just for the sake of discussion, let’s suppose it did.

In Kev’s 46 game season that gave us 99 points and the title (108 goals scored and a GD of +56, Goater the division top scorer with 32). This was at a win percentage of 82.6% at home and 52.2% away (67.4% in aggregate) and an overall draw percentage of 13%. For a 38 game PL season that would translate into 26 wins and 5 draws (rounded figures) = 83 points. Enough to win the league, I think, in this crazy season.

If we had the same goals-to-games ratio as Keegan’s team then we would score 89 goals, but we are ahead of his rate so far this term and if we continue as we are (2.55 per game) then we would score 96.

Of course, Keegan’s squad significantly upped the success rate later in the season and we will have to do the same this time if we want to match his outcome, but let’s hope we don’t have to win two home games whilst playing most of the match with ten men (Benarbia and Berkovic sent off in consecutive home games)!

There's lot of similarities with the way Keegan and Pellegrini see the game but their shortcomings in the end of the day are quite different. Keegan was an innovator and for him making constant tactical changes and even changing the fundamental system every now and then was possibility....often when there was no need for it too. Pellegrini is pretty steady with his system but seems to need right type of guys for his system and therefore sometimes leaves us little bit vulnerable when the pieces don't work well together (and don't take that as tactical naivety). I agree that for both of them winning is not good enough, you need to with some style.

I'm starting to wonder whether Pellegrini either is suitable to Director of Football system. It seems to me that he is looking for right kind of player profiles and when the players are given to you, what you need most is tactical flexibility. To make talented group of players play to their strenghts and get results. To my recollection, he was talking about having been given wrong blend of players when he was in similar situation in Madrid.

He has clearly stated that he asked for the players he got. I don't understand this business of persisting with the idea that he has been told who to sign. Even the players themselves have, for the most part, talked about their past connections with Pellegrini.

The players he has been 'given' are the ones who were already at City, most of whom are pretty good. The signings are picked by the Count; he says so & they say so.

Its unlikely that Pellers was involved in all of the signings if only because of the timings. The Fernandinho deal was done in January and Txiki was working on the Navas deal for months beforehand. The squad is assembled and shaped primarily by Txiki. Its his job. Its the same with existing players. Barry was told at the end of last season that he would be surplus and whilst he may have hoped to impress the new manager the decision had already been made by Txiki. This is not to say Pellers or any future manager will not have input. Isco would have been down to Pellers and Demichelis is all Pellers but the composition of the squad is primarily down to Txiki.

All of this and the way we will work in the future was laid out by Ferran when he gave his interview in New York.

"The difference in role between Txiki and the manager is that the director of football has, and has to have, a long-term view. So what we are asking him to do is build a squad, but also football concepts, and a way of working that will last for the next 10 years"

Personally I have always liked the DoF structure with the manager/head coach focused on coaching the first team so the idea that Pellers did not pick the summer signings is no big deal. Its just the way we operate.

That really is the bottom line. If that isn't his job then what is it?

Every aspect of football including helping the manager to assemble the squad & bring in players he wants, showing him options for players we have scouted who he may not have seen or suggesting alternatives to players we can't sign, helping him manage the budget by selling players he wants out, being a link between him & the chairman/owner, making the system work so that players come through from the academy better prepared for the first team & ultimately, assessing the performance of the manager himself & the coaches employed at the club.

If Txiki isn't doing all of those things, who is ?

[Original Dub]

I can see where you are coming from in part but much of what you say isn't what I'm about. I'm one of those who supports anybody in the seat whether it be player, manager or board member. A few years ago I was asked why I gave Hughes my support even though it was quite obvious that he didn't have the qualities we required. My response was quite simply that I trusted our custodian and his men to run the club correctly and when the time came then I'll trust them again. Why should that change now?

Well, it hasn't. I've had a few rants on here about certain games and in particular the Bayern game. That was when we could clearly see that we'd set-up one way and stick with it until the end. This, coming after the farce of Villa made it even worse.

I think some people will use the sacking of the manager to beat Pellers with but that person is not me. I had no problem with Mancini moving on and understand why he went. The gripe that I had was the manner in which it went and my belief that it undermined our dismal showing in the cup final, one, that if we were fighting as one, should've won with ease.

My take is that I support everything at our club in the here and now and try not to dwell too much on yesterday. We can compare and contrast to different seasons and talk about the issues in hand, namely our shit away form. We can also bring in to question Txiki's roll alongside Pellers as the DoF and Manager should walk hand-in-hand to ensure maximum success. If that's not happening then I feel no reason to not discuss it, just as I'll talk positively when I think we're heading in the right direction.

There's no need to protect it mate, it's just us having a a discussion and although a few go over the top (like my rant against Bayern), it's a good place to discuss where we're at. Using the Sheikh as marker then we can probably say that he is the Dogs Danglies and everybody else has to be measured from there. Soriano and Glick are performing well as we are seeing revenues and infrastructure coming on nicely so it leaves the management group and the players to do the business and although they've done a half decent job they've still not quite sorted their shit out yet. Once that happens, which I'm sure it will, there will still be question marks on whether they really have what it takes.

Well that's fair enough.

Solid post and it turns out we're on the same page.

You just play devil's advocate enough to confuse me from time to time ;-)