OK, how do WE beat Barca?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Can we compete with Barcelona now? I doubt it very much but I would think we could give them a better test than that, I really think our midfield would be better and better prepared. If the rags are the second best team in Europe then I dont think City have a great deal to fear from anyone but Barcelona.

How quickly we forget games like Arse at home, Blue Dippers away, etc? We've improved by miles, but we still tend to bend over for teams who control possession or press the ball high up the pitch. Barca would fuck us dry.

You aren't wrong. There is long way to go still and building side that can compete and win likes of Barcelona will take years and years like Chelsea have found out.

People need to calm down and we'll take one step at a time. I don't think winning the CL is any sort of minimum target next year.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

Some would say Messi occupies 6 players during a game. The holding midfielder is shiting himself messi will rob him of the ball the back 4 and GK know he is to good for them and look as Saturday proved spellbound. The player is so good it makes anything we watch look 2nd rate in the Prem. For me go long when its on miss out the chess board minefield, and have a strong player like Tevez another Argie by the way hold it up and get support there even then they sus it out and pass you to death, what was so plain was the energy the rags had to use to stay with them, whatever you do IMHO they are to good to be true and fatigue was major on Saturday.

Yes I agree, Messi is the star of the side but Xavi and Iniesta are the foundations. Sorry to be cliche. Mess is brilliant but I watch Barca often and without their central midfield they would suffer more. As good as Messi is you need to get the ball to him.

It's not doing Barca justice to say without Messi they wouldn't be that great, they would still be by far and way the best side in the world.

I doubt very much that Barca would be anything less than a great side without Messi but I also don't think they'd be nailed on to win the Chump's Lg & if they played the rags side from 3 years ago (Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney) or Real Madrid or Jose's Chelsea/Inter or even Arsenal, I wouldn't be so sure they would beat them.

I agree that they also miss Xavi when he is injured but the 1st goal v rags for instance was caused by the whole rags defence shitting themselves about Messi, thus being in the wrong place to stop the others.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

Some would say Messi occupies 6 players during a game. The holding midfielder is shiting himself messi will rob him of the ball the back 4 and GK know he is to good for them and look as Saturday proved spellbound. The player is so good it makes anything we watch look 2nd rate in the Prem. For me go long when its on miss out the chess board minefield, and have a strong player like Tevez another Argie by the way hold it up and get support there even then they sus it out and pass you to death, what was so plain was the energy the rags had to use to stay with them, whatever you do IMHO they are to good to be true and fatigue was major on Saturday.

Yes I agree, Messi is the star of the side but Xavi and Iniesta are the foundations. Sorry to be cliche. Mess is brilliant but I watch Barca often and without their central midfield they would suffer more. As good as Messi is you need to get the ball to him.

It's not doing Barca justice to say without Messi they wouldn't be that great, they would still be by far and way the best side in the world.

I doubt very much that Barca would be anything less than a great side without Messi but I also don't think they'd be nailed on to win the Chump's Lg & if they played the rags side from 3 years ago (Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney) or Real Madrid or Jose's Chelsea/Inter or even Arsenal, I wouldn't be so sure they would beat them.

I agree that they also miss Xavi when he is injured but the 1st goal v rags for instance was caused by the whole rags defence shitting themselves about Messi, thus being in the wrong place to stop the others.

Well they still have Pedro who's fantastic and his finiish was brillaint.. I still think they'd easily of won it without Messi. David Villa is the weak link in their attack! Barca's main quality is keeping the ball, in the second half United could get nowhere near it and that was mainly down to the movement and control of Xavi and Iniesta.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

Some would say Messi occupies 6 players during a game. The holding midfielder is shiting himself messi will rob him of the ball the back 4 and GK know he is to good for them and look as Saturday proved spellbound. The player is so good it makes anything we watch look 2nd rate in the Prem. For me go long when its on miss out the chess board minefield, and have a strong player like Tevez another Argie by the way hold it up and get support there even then they sus it out and pass you to death, what was so plain was the energy the rags had to use to stay with them, whatever you do IMHO they are to good to be true and fatigue was major on Saturday.

Yes I agree, Messi is the star of the side but Xavi and Iniesta are the foundations. Sorry to be cliche. Mess is brilliant but I watch Barca often and without their central midfield they would suffer more. As good as Messi is you need to get the ball to him.

It's not doing Barca justice to say without Messi they wouldn't be that great, they would still be by far and way the best side in the world.

I doubt very much that Barca would be anything less than a great side without Messi but I also don't think they'd be nailed on to win the Chump's Lg & if they played the rags side from 3 years ago (Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney) or Real Madrid or Jose's Chelsea/Inter or even Arsenal, I wouldn't be so sure they would beat them.

I agree that they also miss Xavi when he is injured but the 1st goal v rags for instance was caused by the whole rags defence shitting themselves about Messi, thus being in the wrong place to stop the others.

Well they still have Pedro who's fantastic and his finiish was brillaint.. I still think they'd easily of won it without Messi. David Villa is the weak link in their attack! Barca's main quality is keeping the ball, in the second half United could get nowhere near it and that was mainly down to the movement and control of Xavi and Iniesta. T

I understand what you mean about Xavi & Iniesta's almost telepathic understanding but 2 things. 1: that Utd midfield wouldn't get anywhere near Silva, Yaya & Tevez either, & 2: WE can knock the ball about all day in the midfield. Our problem is when we try to do something with it. 95% of everything that Barca did, which actually caused the rags problems, was down to Messi. Get a vid of the game if you don't believe me. It's great firing off 80 passes in 7 mins but the bit where the rags suddenly found themselves in the shit, was the bit when Messi touched the ball. They turned to jelly.

When the rags were all over Barca at the start, what happened to kickstart Barca ? Messi dropped deep & got involved with their passing game. Suddenly they were Barca again. You can't close down Xavi & Iniesta when you're up against Lionel Messi; it's impossible. I f he signed for us tomorrow, in two years max, we'd be beating Barca regularly. So long as they've got him, the oppo need either luck or 12/13 players.

[brite blu sky]

Ted makes a very plausible argument to back up the view that Messi is the main man, but it is not a straight bat. Messi always comes deep anyway and the rags were bound to lose the midfield when they lost the initiative of the first burst they put in.

Messi, Xavi and Iniesta made more passes between the 3 of them than the whole rags team, Iniesta & Xavi the majority of those.

I wouldn't take anything away from Messi he is simply brilliant but he doesn't make the team or the majority of the difference, the rags just made it look that way. Maybe it is down to opinion but Xavi & Iniesta together add up to the force that makes what Barca is. Another way of making the point is look at the WC.. where were Argentina? and where were Spain. end of.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted makes a very plausible argument to back up the view that Messi is the main man, but it is not a straight bat. Messi always comes deep anyway and the rags were bound to lose the midfield when they lost the initiative of the first burst they put in.

Messi, Xavi and Iniesta made more passes between the 3 of them than the whole rags team, Iniesta & Xavi the majority of those.

I wouldn't take anything away from Messi he is simply brilliant but he doesn't make the team or the majority of the difference, the rags just made it look that way. Maybe it is down to opinion but Xavi & Iniesta together add up to the force that makes what Barca is. Another way of making the point is look at the WC.. where were Argentina? and where were Spain. end of.

Fantastic point sir, Xavi and Iniesta imo have a bigger influence than Messi.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted makes a very plausible argument to back up the view that Messi is the main man, but it is not a straight bat. Messi always comes deep anyway and the rags were bound to lose the midfield when they lost the initiative of the first burst they put in.

Messi, Xavi and Iniesta made more passes between the 3 of them than the whole rags team, Iniesta & Xavi the majority of those.

I wouldn't take anything away from Messi he is simply brilliant but he doesn't make the team or the majority of the difference, the rags just made it look that way. Maybe it is down to opinion but Xavi & Iniesta together add up to the force that makes what Barca is. Another way of making the point is look at the WC.. where were Argentina? and where were Spain. end of.

Fantastic point sir, Xavi and Iniesta imo have a bigger influence than Messi.

I take neither of you have watched Barca much when Messi is missing then ? They miss Xavi a lot hen he's missing, true but they don't have David Silva or similar to replace him with. They struggle like fuck without Messi & I think I'm right in saying; got nowhere in the Champion's Lg when he was injured/carrying an injury/ a few season's ago ?

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted makes a very plausible argument to back up the view that Messi is the main man, but it is not a straight bat. Messi always comes deep anyway and the rags were bound to lose the midfield when they lost the initiative of the first burst they put in.

Messi, Xavi and Iniesta made more passes between the 3 of them than the whole rags team, Iniesta & Xavi the majority of those.

I wouldn't take anything away from Messi he is simply brilliant but he doesn't make the team or the majority of the difference, the rags just made it look that way. Maybe it is down to opinion but Xavi & Iniesta together add up to the force that makes what Barca is. Another way of making the point is look at the WC.. where were Argentina? and where were Spain. end of.

Fantastic point sir, Xavi and Iniesta imo have a bigger influence than Messi.

I take neither of you have watched Barca much when Messi is missing then ? They miss Xavi a lot hen he's missing, true but they don't have David Silva or similar to replace him with. They struggle like fuck without Messi & I think I'm right in saying; got nowhere in the Champion's Lg when he was injured/carrying an injury/ a few season's ago ?

When Barca beat United 2-0 a couple of seasons ago, Messi although he scored was barely in the game. Barca absolutely dominated that game and it was all down to Xavi and Iniesta. As brite blu Sky says- look at how Argentina performed in the World Cup compared to Spain.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted makes a very plausible argument to back up the view that Messi is the main man, but it is not a straight bat. Messi always comes deep anyway and the rags were bound to lose the midfield when they lost the initiative of the first burst they put in.

Messi, Xavi and Iniesta made more passes between the 3 of them than the whole rags team, Iniesta & Xavi the majority of those.

I wouldn't take anything away from Messi he is simply brilliant but he doesn't make the team or the majority of the difference, the rags just made it look that way. Maybe it is down to opinion but Xavi & Iniesta together add up to the force that makes what Barca is. Another way of making the point is look at the WC.. where were Argentina? and where were Spain. end of.

Fantastic point sir, Xavi and Iniesta imo have a bigger influence than Messi.

I take neither of you have watched Barca much when Messi is missing then ? They miss Xavi a lot hen he's missing, true but they don't have David Silva or similar to replace him with. They struggle like fuck without Messi & I think I'm right in saying; got nowhere in the Champion's Lg when he was injured/carrying an injury/ a few season's ago ?

When Barca beat United 2-0 a couple of seasons ago, Messi although he scored was barely in the game. Barca absolutely dominated that game and it was all down to Xavi and Iniesta. As brite blu Sky says- look at how Argentina performed in the World Cup compared to Spain.

That would be Argentina, managed by Maradona ? With, Guttiierez, Heinze, Collocini, Maxi Rodriguez & a 47 year old striker ? That Argentina ? As opposed to a Spain team with Torres & Silva on the bench ? Next question.

When Utd beat Barca a couple of seasons ago, a Messi struggling with injury was the best player on the pitch in both games, just as he was at Wembley. Messi has scored 50, that's FIFTY fucking goals this season. As many as Villa & Pedro put together. Villa was rated as possibly the best striker in the world. Messi scores twice as many, creates goals left right & centre, tackles back, pulls defences out of position, takes 3 or 4 players out of the game in every attack.

Those two are absolutely brilliant at their passing game etc. Messi is as good, but better at EVERYTHING ELSE. There's so much bollox in football these days. People saying Silva is more valuable to us than Tevez, or Xavi/Iniesta more valuable to Barca than Messi. It's just plain daft. Yes it's difficult to replace Xavi or Iniesta but Barca could sign Fabregas tomorrow & still win everything. You can't replace Lionel Messi. He is twice as good as anyone else on that team.

[Hazy2]

Ted- I disagree that Messi makes Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta do. They are the hearbeat of Barca, they control the ball and dictate games, their range of passing and vision is phenomenal. I guarantee Barca would struggle more if you took Xavi out than if you took Messi out. United just couldn't cope with their movement.

Some would say Messi occupies 6 players during a game. The holding midfielder is shiting himself messi will rob him of the ball the back 4 and GK know he is to good for them and look as Saturday proved spellbound. The player is so good it makes anything we watch look 2nd rate in the Prem. For me go long when its on miss out the chess board minefield, and have a strong player like Tevez another Argie by the way hold it up and get support there even then they sus it out and pass you to death, what was so plain was the energy the rags had to use to stay with them, whatever you do IMHO they are to good to be true and fatigue was major on Saturday.

Yes I agree, Messi is the star of the side but Xavi and Iniesta are the foundations. Sorry to be cliche. Mess is brilliant but I watch Barca often and without their central midfield they would suffer more. As good as Messi is you need to get the ball to him.

It's not doing Barca justice to say without Messi they wouldn't be that great, they would still be by far and way the best side in the world.

My point is Midfielders of the level we are talking about need genius to make the passes stick or they look misplaced, in Messi you have brave, skilfull, strong very good on either flank, down the middle great header of the ball when required and to top all he can finish for fun. The other thing which is amazing , he never misses a game despite the stick he takes Ramos tried to decapitate him in El Classico he walked off pulled his socks up and just got on with it , You are right tick tak from the midfield from heaven with a 1 in amillion player reading the game and finishing all the chances or making them.