European Super League - A Reality? (Poll Added)

[Herb]

If it happens then City will be aboard if they possibly can be because it's business and in business you must move up to the next level, always continue to improve, increase market share and improve again innit.

I have a lot of sympathy with those not keen on change but the changes will happen so no point in being a ludite and every point in embracing the future with a positive attitude.

[Rag_hater]

The way I see it is that the rags,barca ,bayern etc will not leave their national comps where they are guaranteed millions of pounds, euros to enter a comp which has no history or tradition and is a new concept.I am sure it will take a while to establish itself.Also for me I think clubs like the rags will only join a breakaway league if they are forced to by not being able to compete with clubs with new money like us

[Beefymcfc]

If it happens then City will be aboard if they possibly can be because it's business and in business you must move up to the next level, always continue to improve, increase market share and improve again innit.

I have a lot of sympathy with those not keen on change but the changes will happen so no point in being a ludite and every point in embracing the future with a positive attitude.

I don't think it's that mate, I'd be up for any football in a decent format but the way it's being portrayed it'd turn to a bag of shit with a closed shop. Also, this is coming across as jobs for the boys (G14) who have tried to curtail our expansion at every turn so do you really think we'd be invited to the party?

Would I be interested in just a Euro League and no domestic competition, would I fuck like!

[AG7]

And why is everybody assuming that whoever goes on to play EuroSuperLeague, this'll replace PremierLeague as their primary league?

I think the domestic leagues, the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga et all will continue WITH the teams in it, except a third super duper competition will come on (on top of Champions League and Europa League) so degrading those two European competitions or maybe altogether replacing the current Champions League ...

Domestic Leagues don't have any competition with the EuropeSuperLeague and this'll remain for each club in their respective countries ... whether they keep it their priority no 1, or play kids in there (if already assured a place in the EuropeSuperDuperWhatever next year) is something to be seen and will depend on what shape and from this new competition takes.

Here's how I am looking at it ...
We currently play Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup and the League Cup ... if this changes in future, we'll be playing Premier League, EuropeSuperLeague and the FA Cup ...

Hell yeah, bring it on ... sort out the Champions League, give it a more league like shape instead of a cup competition feel and yeah to accommodate more fixtures in that, get us out of the League Cup at home ... sure, why not!?!

[Beefymcfc]

And why is everybody assuming that whoever goes on to play EuroSuperLeague, this'll replace PremierLeague as their primary league?

I think the domestic leagues, the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga et all will continue WITH the teams in it, except a third super duper competition will come on (on top of Champions League and Europa League) so degrading those two European competitions or maybe altogether replacing the current Champions League ...

Domestic Leagues don't have any competition with the EuropeSuperLeague and this'll remain for each club in their respective countries ... whether they keep it their priority no 1, or play kids in there (if already assured a place in the EuropeSuperDuperWhatever next year) is something to be seen and will depend on what shape and from this new competition takes.

Here's how I am looking at it ...
We currently play Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup and the League Cup ... if this changes in future, we'll be playing Premier League, EuropeSuperLeague and the FA Cup ...

Hell yeah, bring it on ... sort out the Champions League, give it a more league like shape instead of a cup competition feel and yeah to accommodate more fixtures in that, get us out of the League Cup at home ... sure, why not!?!

Why are people assuming we are invited, do people forget recent history?

[aaron bond]

I'm against a breakaway European Super League. If a select group of teams were to set-up their own European league and not participate in domestic leagues, it would relegate the domestic leagues to what the Europa is now to the Champions League.

The other concern is I'm not sure we would be invited to participate if it was a locked group of 18-20 teams. The old elite will almost certainly keep all of the places for themselves as they would be the ones driving the implementation of this league, and I doubt they would have 4-5 teams from one country. At this time, United, Arsenal and Chelsea have better political connections than us, and perhaps Liverpool too, who also have a large global fanbase. It's a different situation for other 'new money' clubs such as PSG who don't really have any powerful rivals in their league - Monaco may well prove to be challengers to them in the coming years, but even still, that is only 2 clubs from the French league.

Obviously a European Super League would be a lot easier to stomach if we were a part of it, but if it contained no promotion or relegation, then it would be a big 'fuck you' to every club not involved, and considering where we were 15 years ago, I think we can empathise with those clubs not involved.

[Dameerto]

There's not enough room in the season for an intensive full league in Europe (containing 20ish teams and playing each other twice) and a domestic football league, so a breakaway league would have to be instead of domestic football - since I want what's best for the club (and since the fans are a major component of the club) I would be against screwing with domestic football.

[zuricity]

There's not enough room in the season for an intensive full league in Europe (containing 20ish teams and playing each other twice) and a domestic football league, so a breakaway league would have to be instead of domestic football - since I want what's best for the club (and since the fans are a major component of the club) I would be against screwing with domestic football.

Yeah , once such a league took off, after a couple of seasons they would be playing in half empty stadiums. Opposition fans couldn't afford the travel costs.
Would give a new meaning to "we're not really here" .

[mcfc1632]

I don't think they would be able to market it as a premium product whilst having to compete with the CL.Maybe in future it might turn out that way but cannot see the people who have not been invited into the Super League giving up without a fight.I cant see the CL disappearing cos the Rags and barca ain't in it,in fact it would make a lot of paying public happier

Surely it would relegate the cl to the status the europa league has now?

The thing is, the chinese wouldnt give a fuck what the competition is, they would tune in to it regardless.

Consider the revenue to be generated by a billion chinese who dont have any feeling for our domestic league, whose only care is to be able to watch united or barca etc play 38 games against a top european club.......this looks like the route to a tv season ticket to me mate, and it would be huge.......just remember that the british, and even wider european market is small fish compared to the global audience.

European customers (not to self, we are not fans in these peoples eyes) will very much be a small consideration when it comes to future tv and marketing deals of the future, and i have no doubt if they wanted to make this happen, they can and will when the time is politically opportune.

Spot on in my view........... The poll might be better worded to ask who believes it will happen and giving options on likely format - because for me it is a given that most CITY fans would oppose it but also a given that it will happen

My forecast is:

1/ a super league will happen and that it will be formed by an elite group that carry global appeal (likely of which we are excluded)

2/ that it will be either closed or have strictly protected entry - perhaps the winners of the replaced CL can get entry for a term, but the Elite clubs will dominate the milking of that revenue stream

3/ that it will be run by UeFA but in whatever format that is dictated to them by the ECA - why (IMO) do people still think UeFA are 'in control'? They are the passenger not the driver - and increasingly recent policies (FFPR) and appointments (Gill) demonstrates which clubs call the tune. UeFA will just cave in. So long as they are allowed to 'drive the bus' and get a share of the gravy they will let the ECA 'set the direction'.

4/ That the games will be played in wide-spread locations and at time zones that secure the highest global customer base - not the European customer - we fans are not going to be of any importance in these considerations - and we are naïve to make all these "... well I would not be interested....." type comments - 'cos they do not give a fuck

5/ that CL and Europa League will be 'redesigned' - in the same way as previously has been done - but meaning that the 'Elite clubs' can still put teams in and milk that revenue stream

6/ that PL will be have key rules changed allowing for the English Elite clubs to field teams and thereby avoid the risk of devaluing their product. The team names will likely stay the same and not be B teams like in Spain, but the approach will likely be similar to that currently taken towards the League Cup - but on-going participation will allow the elite clubs to milk that revenue stream

7/ That SKY will be on-board with the new SL to ensure that it does not become marginalised and that following its setting up the next renegotiation of PL TV rights will see a significant drop off in the amount paid to reflect its reduced value

8/ Previously powerful domestic leagues (such as ours) drop back to becoming less and less important (apart from to the loyal and local fans). Still the Elite clubs are likely to dominate because their domination of all the revenue streams mean that they have a large squad of top players and therefore can do so. Meaning that we do not even get the satisfaction (as RH suggests) of seeing them fuck off

[mcfc1632]

There's not enough room in the season for an intensive full league in Europe (containing 20ish teams and playing each other twice) and a domestic football league, so a breakaway league would have to be instead of domestic football - since I want what's best for the club (and since the fans are a major component of the club) I would be against screwing with domestic football.

If my doomsday scenario(s) happen this issue would not arise as they would be playing squad players - as already happens in cup competitions

[mcfc1632]

There's not enough room in the season for an intensive full league in Europe (containing 20ish teams and playing each other twice) and a domestic football league, so a breakaway league would have to be instead of domestic football - since I want what's best for the club (and since the fans are a major component of the club) I would be against screwing with domestic football.

Yeah , once such a league took off, after a couple of seasons they would be playing in half empty stadiums. Opposition fans couldn't afford the travel costs.
Would give a new meaning to "we're not really here" .

Do not think that this would be a problem either - they could play the games in locations where a large audience is guaranteed. The TV money would probably mean that this did not really matter but they could milk that revenue stream as well

[Hutch's Shoulder]

In this scenario I think I will be watching Bury.

[Duckman]

http://footballisfixed.blogspot.com/

The European Super League And The End Of The Premier League As We Know It
One of our contacts at UEFA has given a colleague the list of clubs involved in discussions over the implementation of the European Super League (ESL) in 2018/19.

Although not mentioned at the time, this is the primary reason for Michel Platini's decision for the UEFA Euro's in 2020 being shared between 13 different countries as opposed to the usual one or two. Euro 2020 will serve as a marketing back up for the ESL as well as a sweetener for nations who miss out on the ESL cash bonanza.

The ESL will feature 20 clubs largely grouped around the G14(18) body which was supposedly disbanded in 2008. But when has a power group ever voluntarily relinquished psychopathic control of a market?

This blog first outlined the inevitability of the ESL back in 2007...
... which makes us prescient!

Both Andrea Agnelli of Juventus and Unal Aysal of Galatasaray were present at the discussions over formation of ESL and have shared the reality in the media in Italy and Turkey. Aysal: “The system has to be put in place, either by UEFA or by the clubs themselves. Then we will decide if a breakaway will be a necessity or not."
So UEFA either encourages and orchestrates the ESL or the clubs will remove themselves from both UEFA and national league structures and set up a free-standing tournament.

And what will this all mean for the Premier League and other leading European leagues? Well, the loss of their major turnover members or their replacement by 'B' teams akin to the Segunda Liga in Spain where Real Madrid B and Barcelona B ply their trades.
We suspect the latter as the option of 'B' teams in England has been discussed openly in recent months.

We have been told the full list of the 20 teams that are involved in the discussions and we reveal those that we are able to below:

Manchester United
Barcelona
AC Milan
Juventus
Ajax Amsterdam
Paris St Germain
Real Madrid
Galatasaray
Bayern Munchen
Borussia Dortmund
Inter Milan
Porto
Shakhtar Donetsk
#######
#########
#############
#####
########
#######
##########

The European Club Association (ECA) claim to know nothing about the ESL but the 2018/19 start date is based on the conclusion of the memorandum of understanding between UEFA and the ECA which expires in 2018. Additionally, the final Champions League three year package terminates in 2018 too.

There have also been rumours of an ESL2 but we are informed that this option is a no-no and will be utilised as part of the bargaining in the negotiations with national associations and the Premier League.
Accept losing your biggest three teams or we will take the biggest 5 or 6.

It is our belief that UEFA will elect to control the ESL and avoid the option of a free-standing insider corrupted body being formed, something that Richard Scudamore at the Premier League understands all too well.

So, in Britain, which clubs out of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City and Celtic will be invited?
That answer is based on accepting Financial Fair Play, not undertaking insider trading and no proximity to local mafiosi groups...
... which leaves just two clubs.

[Rag_hater]

I don't think they would be able to market it as a premium product whilst having to compete with the CL.Maybe in future it might turn out that way but cannot see the people who have not been invited into the Super League giving up without a fight.I cant see the CL disappearing cos the Rags and barca ain't in it,in fact it would make a lot of paying public happier

Surely it would relegate the cl to the status the europa league has now?

The thing is, the chinese wouldnt give a fuck what the competition is, they would tune in to it regardless.

Consider the revenue to be generated by a billion chinese who dont have any feeling for our domestic league, whose only care is to be able to watch united or barca etc play 38 games against a top european club.......this looks like the route to a tv season ticket to me mate, and it would be huge.......just remember that the british, and even wider european market is small fish compared to the global audience.

European customers (not to self, we are not fans in these peoples eyes) will very much be a small consideration when it comes to future tv and marketing deals of the future, and i have no doubt if they wanted to make this happen, they can and will when the time is politically opportune.

Spot on in my view........... The poll might be better worded to ask who believes it will happen and giving options on likely format - because for me it is a given that most CITY fans would oppose it but also a given that it will happen

My forecast is:

1/ a super league will happen and that it will be formed by an elite group that carry global appeal (likely of which we are excluded)

2/ that it will be either closed or have strictly protected entry - perhaps the winners of the replaced CL can get entry for a term, but the Elite clubs will dominate the milking of that revenue stream

3/ that it will be run by UeFA but in whatever format that is dictated to them by the ECA - why (IMO) do people still think UeFA are 'in control'? They are the passenger not the driver - and increasingly recent policies (FFPR) and appointments (Gill) demonstrates which clubs call the tune. UeFA will just cave in. So long as they are allowed to 'drive the bus' and get a share of the gravy they will let the ECA 'set the direction'.

4/ That the games will be played in wide-spread locations and at time zones that secure the highest global customer base - not the European customer - we fans are not going to be of any importance in these considerations - and we are naïve to make all these "... well I would not be interested....." type comments - 'cos they do not give a fuck

5/ that CL and Europa League will be 'redesigned' - in the same way as previously has been done - but meaning that the 'Elite clubs' can still put teams in and milk that revenue stream

6/ that PL will be have key rules changed allowing for the English Elite clubs to field teams and thereby avoid the risk of devaluing their product. The team names will likely stay the same and not be B teams like in Spain, but the approach will likely be similar to that currently taken towards the League Cup - but on-going participation will allow the elite clubs to milk that revenue stream

7/ That SKY will be on-board with the new SL to ensure that it does not become marginalised and that following its setting up the next renegotiation of PL TV rights will see a significant drop off in the amount paid to reflect its reduced value

8/ Previously powerful domestic leagues (such as ours) drop back to becoming less and less important (apart from to the loyal and local fans). Still the Elite clubs are likely to dominate because their domination of all the revenue streams mean that they have a large squad of top players and therefore can do so. Meaning that we do not even get the satisfaction (as RH suggests) of seeing them fuck off

We don't need the revenue a Super League would bring the so called elite clubs will only go for it when the constantly can't make the CL.As long as we are competing domestically what the so called elite(paupers) do is of no importance,we don't need them.Those twats need to stay.

[Wonderwall]

4/ That the games will be played in wide-spread locations and at time zones that secure the highest global customer base - not the European customer - we fans are not going to be of any importance in these considerations - and we are naïve to make all these "... well I would not be interested....." type comments - 'cos they do not give a fuck

6/ that PL will be have key rules changed allowing for the English Elite clubs to field teams and thereby avoid the risk of devaluing their product. The team names will likely stay the same and not be B teams like in Spain, but the approach will likely be similar to that currently taken towards the League Cup - but on-going participation will allow the elite clubs to milk that revenue stream

These two points are very interesting to me, I think its very possible that the clubs will form a Super League whilst still remaining in their domestic league, they would just treat the domestic team as their B team and nurture players through to Super League team.

Also the Timezones comment got me thinking, if you are correct and they aim at the asian/american markets, we may well see some very strange kick off times too. I hope it never happens, but in all honesty, I think we are less than a decade away from it.

[mcfc1632]

RH - I am missing the emphasis of your point.

I think that you are repeatedly stating that we are so 'well off' that we do not need revenue streams etc.

This for me - with respect -is missing the main points re the ESL and the main risks to us

What we need / have / want etc. is frankly of little or no relevance or comfort to us - no matter how strong or rich we think that it is.

Indeed the emerging strength, of ourselves and others, could be seen by the ECA members and the fans of those clubs as precisely the need to take assertive action and do so soon, that will 'once and for all' cement their place/position.

Currently we have no real position of substance with the people that matter, unless that is a generally negative one - we are perhaps seen by some as the disease that must be cured through radical therapy.

The people that are in the position to force these changes are the ones who have business plans that need the money to be an ever-increasing proposition and one that is not vulnerable to market forces that they do not control. Like good global CEOs they will take the necessary action - and fairness to idealistic things such as the history of the game or views of 'old fan bases' - well why should someone with a massive annual wage and even larger annual bonuses if they keep the revenue streams on track - give a flying fuck - would you? if so you would not get one of these jobs.

The situation needs to not be looked at from our (slightly irrelevant) viewpoint - it is the persons with the high motivations that will chart the course - and we are just a troublesome side issue.

Money talks - just look at the PL vote to introduce FFP - at a stroke so many club chairman were willing to cut themselves off forever from the long-term mega gravy train - just for more surety to be part of the short to medium-term pretty good gravy train.

If you want to be extreme - the Sheik could buy up every major TV company in the world that is likely to fund the ESL and say a fuck off level yah boo sucks to the lot of them!!!

Meanwhile back in the real world there is a need for a more realistic strategy. I think that the 2 amigos and their contacts are a key part of that - as is the conformance to strategic plans that UeFA expound such as the academy - also a less in your face approach to buying players recently etc. We need to hope that we can become and accepted member of the cartel because we can bring something to the party. Perhaps the Sheik's companies can grow their influence/involvement with some of the global TV companies - something which they have embarked upon I think.

If we had a few more years and could grow our global profile - who knows. After all just look at the size of the Chelsea crowd Vs. the CITY crowd in our recent games - and it was not that many years ago it was a question of "...who the fuck are they...."

One small crumb of comfort that I have is the huge regard that I hold the Sheik and his colleagues in. For many this direction of travel for football has been obvious for a while - so why did they buy us and not the risk-free ticket that was Liverpool? or another country - they are strategic thinkers - I just hope that there is time for their plans to materialise!!

I just worry that we do not have the time required.

[mcfc1632]

4/ That the games will be played in wide-spread locations and at time zones that secure the highest global customer base - not the European customer - we fans are not going to be of any importance in these considerations - and we are naïve to make all these "... well I would not be interested....." type comments - 'cos they do not give a fuck

6/ that PL will be have key rules changed allowing for the English Elite clubs to field teams and thereby avoid the risk of devaluing their product. The team names will likely stay the same and not be B teams like in Spain, but the approach will likely be similar to that currently taken towards the League Cup - but on-going participation will allow the elite clubs to milk that revenue stream

These two points are very interesting to me, I think its very possible that the clubs will form a Super League whilst still remaining in their domestic league, they would just treat the domestic team as their B team and nurture players through to Super League team.

Also the Timezones comment got me thinking, if you are correct and they aim at the asian/american markets, we may well see some very strange kick off times too. I hope it never happens, but in all honesty, I think we are less than a decade away from it.

We of course are a very small country in the regards that matter here - population and likelihood to purchase 'Box office' tickets. England and the wider western Europe actually. Already the PL attracts people all over the world viewing at strange hours - why on earth would they not change that just to keep what they would see as a minority happy with the way things have always been.

When the 39th game in far flung lands was being mooted - just whose view was being tested? us in England thinking it would be acceptable? I think not - more likely the target audiences in those far flung places. The conclusion was that it would only work for the games between the EPL Elite clubs - top 4 - 6.

An approach to the ESL could be seen as exactly the same situation on a grander/wider scale - thats where the brand and established global position of the ECA members comes in. They will not wish to let that weaken, already a number of the old G14 clubs have - this could be their salvation, e.g. Liverpool's global fan-base trump's sheiks £zillions all the time when the consideration is attracting fee paying audience of individuals.

[DoomMerchant]

You're just a sad fuck. From that statement I'm gathering that you'll never quite understand.

Cheers.

I'll never quite understand that your romance with the hard fought days and relegation etc is more legit than a child growing up now thinking of city as a world footballing power?

I don't buy your argument buy maybe elaborate more if I'm missing the point.

Onwards and upwards. Let the kids bask in the glory and don't act like some old know it all holier than thou fart because you remember the bad times. Good for you. You'll always have those. Doesnt mean the next generation has a less authentic experience.

[Rag_hater]

RH - I am missing the emphasis of your point.

I think that you are repeatedly stating that we are so 'well off' that we do not need revenue streams etc.

This for me - with respect -is missing the main points re the ESL and the main risks to us

What we need / have / want etc. is frankly of little or no relevance or comfort to us - no matter how strong or rich we think that it is.

Indeed the emerging strength, of ourselves and others, could be seen by the ECA members and the fans of those clubs as precisely the need to take assertive action and do so soon, that will 'once and for all' cement their place/position.

Currently we have no real position of substance with the people that matter, unless that is a generally negative one - we are perhaps seen by some as the disease that must be cured through radical therapy.

The people that are in the position to force these changes are the ones who have business plans that need the money to be an ever-increasing proposition and one that is not vulnerable to market forces that they do not control. Like good global CEOs they will take the necessary action - and fairness to idealistic things such as the history of the game or views of 'old fan bases' - well why should someone with a massive annual wage and even larger annual bonuses if they keep the revenue streams on track - give a flying fuck - would you? if so you would not get one of these jobs.

The situation needs to not be looked at from our (slightly irrelevant) viewpoint - it is the persons with the high motivations that will chart the course - and we are just a troublesome side issue.

Money talks - just look at the PL vote to introduce FFP - at a stroke so many club chairman were willing to cut themselves off forever from the long-term mega gravy train - just for more surety to be part of the short to medium-term pretty good gravy train.

If you want to be extreme - the Sheik could buy up every major TV company in the world that is likely to fund the ESL and say a fuck off level yah boo sucks to the lot of them!!!

Meanwhile back in the real world there is a need for a more realistic strategy. I think that the 2 amigos and their contacts are a key part of that - as is the conformance to strategic plans that UeFA expound such as the academy - also a less in your face approach to buying players recently etc. We need to hope that we can become and accepted member of the cartel because we can bring something to the party. Perhaps the Sheik's companies can grow their influence/involvement with some of the global TV companies - something which they have embarked upon I think.

If we had a few more years and could grow our global profile - who knows. After all just look at the size of the Chelsea crowd Vs. the CITY crowd in our recent games - and it was not that many years ago it was a question of "...who the fuck are they...."

One small crumb of comfort that I have is the huge regard that I hold the Sheik and his colleagues in. For many this direction of travel for football has been obvious for a while - so why did they buy us and not the risk-free ticket that was Liverpool? or another country - they are strategic thinkers - I just hope that there is time for their plans to materialise!!

I just worry that we do not have the time required.

For me the point you make about the fact that these clubs have massive annual wage bills and more than likely massive bonuses indicates that they are running on very narrow margins and could not afford to dismiss any source of revenue.Sorry if I keep repeating the point but as you say money talks and the elite fuckers cannot allow any source to disappear.The way the CL has grown has taken time.If a ESL was to be formed I think it would need time also.

[mcfc1632]

So I agree - they will not let any revenue stream disappear - they will maximise them all, but that would likely mean:

Super League Revenue stream - keep it closed/guaranteed and max the revenue - play best team 'cos its the most important (lucrative).

What it means to CITY? CITY likely not taking part

CL Revenue stream - max it as well - so go as far as possible - use a strong team but not at the risk of the ESL

What it means to CITY? - We will get to play but it will be the peak of our ambitions - devalued by there being an ESL that we can not qualify for and there will be 20 teams in the CL (ESL members) that are playing reduced strength teams - bit like Europa League now

PL Revenue stream - max it as well - finish as high as possible but use it as a chance to play the squad players (which will likely be better than other (non ESL) teams because they cannot attract the top players anymore)

What it means to CITY? We have a chance of winning our domestic league but the competition is forever devalued because 4 clubs are playing teams well short of full strength. Also we are increasingly getting weaker as we cannot attract players. Before the English PL came about Scottish football was stronger and some teams able to attract top players - look at it now. Is that the PL fate after years of TV money reducing? Probably ends up as back to the old days of the 'Sky top 4' as they have the money to afford the best players

FA and League cups - well more of the same - just worse