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Beefymcfc wrote:Does anyone know if there is a vote on this by say, all the Top Tier clubs across Europe,the current CL/Europa Clubs or just brought in by UEFA?

The reason I ask is that I cannot see any teams below the 6 signing up for it as it realistically relegates them to non-Euro football with no chance of making the grade.

No there is not a vote

Canvassing in advance to get the 'right; people onside - so the scum, RM etc are happy - and garlic breath has checked with abramovich

Beefymcfc wrote:Does anyone know if there is a vote on this by say, all the Top Tier clubs across Europe,the current CL/Europa Clubs or just brought in by UEFA?

The reason I ask is that I cannot see any teams below the 6 signing up for it as it realistically relegates them to non-Euro football with no chance of making the grade.

It's not even been thought though yet let alone put forward to be voted on. There'll be clauses put in it to protect the cartel clubs if it does go through but I recon the UEFA lawyers will just tell Platini it's completely unworkable & he'll say he's been prevented from doing it & blame it on the EU, plus Abramovic will deny having anything to do with it & say he was suggesting something completely different.

mcfc1632 wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:Does anyone know if there is a vote on this by say, all the Top Tier clubs across Europe,the current CL/Europa Clubs or just brought in by UEFA?

The reason I ask is that I cannot see any teams below the 6 signing up for it as it realistically relegates them to non-Euro football with no chance of making the grade.

No there is not a vote

Canvassing in advance to get the 'right; people onside - so the scum, RM etc are happy - and garlic breath has checked with abramovich

Cheers mate, thought as much. I don't worry for us with this sort of legislation but do think that if it goes through, will basically be the fore-runner to the Euro Super League. It will create a two tier system where clubs running within the guidelines will play the traditional Euro Comps, whereas the the clubs with money (Real, City et al) who cannot make the requirements will obviously want some sort of competition to ply their wears. And thinking logically, if the likes of City and Real are winning their respective leagues yet not allowed to play in the established comps, which Broadcasters (where most of the revenue comes from) are not going to want to televise them in some sort of competition?

The truth is, whatever comes to fruition, it will be the people who pay the wages that set the rules; not the administrators!

I see Chelski have a fair amount of Etihad sponsorship around the bridge - time to pull the fuclin plug me thinks your highness!

Got to admit, didn't enjoy reading this one little bit, just getting my head around our global position and some frog twat backed by the quivering big clubs is going to shoot himself in the foot - good!
Stupid wankers.
Let's see them try I say, lets work them to death through litigation and I don't personally care if we finish top every year and aren't allowed to play in the champs league, a season or two doing that then everybody, including Pratini will see how silly this idea really is.

UEFA is losing the plot

None of these tossers (Abramovich, Platini, Taggart etc) have got a fucking leg to stand on in this regard, Twatini hasn't even seen our owner or balance sheets yet, unlike the funding at Chelsea, Liverpool and the filth, whose players are being financed by a bank loan and plunging the side into more debt, our players, transfer fees, wages and all the rest are being paid for by the Sheikh without ANY compromise on the clubs future, City are balanced, earn nowt, spend nowt....we are spending within our means, as the club themselves are not spending a thing, and this isn't money that the Sheikh wants paying back at a later date, unlike what Roman has done with Chelsea.

I would just laugh this off as a balls up by the heirachy to get City out of the picture, without knowing anything about the club and the finacial backing we have got and will continue to have, they will be left without a pot to piss in soon when they ask for confirmation, as it is all from HRH Sheikh Mansoor's bank account and not from the club......he is the Prince of the Royal Family in Abu Dhabi, does anybody think a Russian oil man (who possibly works in some way for Mansoor) or a stupid Frog are going to disrespect someone of that high regard.....I doubt it.

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

To answer some of the above;

Yes we could try and manipulate turnover through sponsorship money but that could lead to sponsorship by connected parties being banned and actually leave us worse off!

Loaning the players from a feeder club is a non starter, there are already rules strictly limiting the number of loans allowed.

Whether the spending goes on the balance sheet is irrelevant. The proposed rule is to relate total spending including transfers to turnover, although they do seem to be edging towards allowing commercial debt to be allowed towards the total too. We could borrow commercially to a point but it wouldn't be the answer alone and if they would find a way to limit this in relation to existing size.

I don't see how this could easily be legally fought if introduced. European courts are only concerned with the interference of right to trade for individuals not clubs as a whole.

All we can do now is hope we can get there quickly enough before the gate is slammed shut.

john68 wrote:

Abu Dhabi wrote:I always love reading your posts John, but let me add something to it...... never gonna happen..

Thank you AD. It is only a theory I am shoving forward for discussion and am happy and open for it to be ripped apart.
Please clarify...which bit won't happen...The decreasing rate of player investment? The increased Academy investment? The increased marketting to match out turnover? Or that City will make the top four?
Because of your location, you may have far better info than I. I am only adding together what I know and what I can deduce mate.

I'll leave it with you, Been up working all night and need sleep.

Sorry mate, I wasn't refering to your post. I meant the whole thing. Platinis bollox and all.

Abu Dhabi wrote:

john68 wrote:

Abu Dhabi wrote:I always love reading your posts John, but let me add something to it...... never gonna happen..

Thank you AD. It is only a theory I am shoving forward for discussion and am happy and open for it to be ripped apart.
Please clarify...which bit won't happen...The decreasing rate of player investment? The increased Academy investment? The increased marketting to match out turnover? Or that City will make the top four?
Because of your location, you may have far better info than I. I am only adding together what I know and what I can deduce mate.

I'll leave it with you, Been up working all night and need sleep.

Sorry mate, I wasn't refering to your post. I meant the whole thing. Platinis bollox and all.

I understood that AD...Just wondering which part of the threat you thought wouldn't happen. Sorry if I didn't make that clear Mate. I just think that the threat is real and already starting to take place.

Why don't we use one of the Sheik's banks to get a loan, or another bank. I don't exactly think we are a bad finanial risk so we would be in line with everyone else. Get a £500m loan over 20 years, and pay it back in a way that is affordable to our income, then we would be in 'debt' like everyone else.

JonnyAsh wrote:Why don't we use one of the Sheik's banks to get a loan, or another bank. I don't exactly think we are a bad finanial risk so we would be in line with everyone else. Get a £500m loan over 20 years, and pay it back in a way that is affordable to our income, then we would be in 'debt' like everyone else.

If it was one of the Sheikh's banks then that would be from a "connected party" and they would say it cannot be counted?

john68 wrote:

Abu Dhabi wrote:

john68 wrote:

Abu Dhabi wrote:I always love reading your posts John, but let me add something to it...... never gonna happen..

Thank you AD. It is only a theory I am shoving forward for discussion and am happy and open for it to be ripped apart.
Please clarify...which bit won't happen...The decreasing rate of player investment? The increased Academy investment? The increased marketting to match out turnover? Or that City will make the top four?
Because of your location, you may have far better info than I. I am only adding together what I know and what I can deduce mate.

I'll leave it with you, Been up working all night and need sleep.

Sorry mate, I wasn't refering to your post. I meant the whole thing. Platinis bollox and all.

I understood that AD...Just wondering which part of the threat you thought wouldn't happen. Sorry if I didn't make that clear Mate. I just think that the threat is real and already starting to take place.

How could you possibly restrict the amount of capital pumped into a business?
This is 20 steps backward to current world football. Unfair concept considering already benifited clubs.
Why would you want to restrict the amount of money entering the industry?
Restricting the outflow ( interest from debt etc) might seem logical, but the opposite?!!
They have been spouting off since ever and no clear structure yet about it. There will never be, because it can't be done.
What will constitute turnover? I just want a clear answer to this.

Socrates wrote:

JonnyAsh wrote:Why don't we use one of the Sheik's banks to get a loan, or another bank. I don't exactly think we are a bad finanial risk so we would be in line with everyone else. Get a £500m loan over 20 years, and pay it back in a way that is affordable to our income, then we would be in 'debt' like everyone else.

If it was one of the Sheikh's banks then that would be from a "connected party" and they would say it cannot be counted?

What is a connected party though?
They might not be able to loan from Gulf first bank, but who is to say wether or not you can loan from this bank or that?
What about any other bank in the UAE? Will it be considered a connected party?

Socrates wrote:This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

Soc, you state that the reason you wanted Hughes out was because of this and that the naive minds have woken and smelled the coffee? Well excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it these Naive Minds who actually had trust in the management and had smelt the coffee, had bacon butties and caught the worm as they say; unlike you who were sleeping!

You have also stated that the management have twigged, so does this mean you are actually giving Hughes credit for the insight he has shown and credit to the people who actually stood by the clubs management decision?

This is not a dig at you mate, but when you come over 'I told you so' when in reality it is those who supported Hughes continuation in post, then I seem to get a little confused!?!

Dont they have a stake in Citibank? Now how good would that look on the shirt!

We would be able to borrow from Barclays or whoever, on the same terms as The Rags, Chelski or Anyone else. It's just that we can structure our repayments. I know it's stupid, as we don't need to borrow any money, and we would be paying interest on a loan we don't need, but I can't see how they could find a flaw, especially as our income in 3 years would be equal to that of Arsenal and Chelsea, and the Scouse surely

I am still working through this and the more I think about it the worse it does seem to get.
I see no reason for UeFA to oppose our entry into the CL for any reason. We have no debt and though the books may not yet balance in an income/expenditure sense, we have the resources to fund ourselves without any financial risk. I think that they must be being driven by the exG14 cartel.
I can see no reason why the (non-English) exG14 cartel would want to oppose our qualification. We pose no significant threat to them, as we would only replace another English club and the financial slice of the cake for the non English clubs would remain the same.
We are only a threat to the team we would displace from the English "Big4." This leads me to think that it is probably the English based BIG4 that are driving this and using their mates and UeFA to do their dirty work.

The major weakness in our position would seem to be our lack of friends. Apart from our very recent flirtation with Barca, we have no historic or friendly links to any clubs, who we could rely on to help us fight our corner in any forthcoming battle with UeFA.

Though City seem to be aware of the dangers and are taking steps to put us in a better position, it seems that we do need to begin a charm offensive and gain allies to strengthen our political position.

Beefymcfc wrote:Does anyone know if there is a vote on this by say, all the Top Tier clubs across Europe,the current CL/Europa Clubs or just brought in by UEFA?

The reason I ask is that I cannot see any teams below the 6 signing up for it as it realistically relegates them to non-Euro football with no chance of making the grade.

It's a Platini fart at the moment (pure hot air)

john68 wrote:I am still working through this and the more I think about it the worse it does seem to get.
I see no reason for UeFA to oppose our entry into the CL for any reason. We have no debt and though the books may not yet balance in an income/expenditure sense, we have the resources to fund ourselves without any financial risk. I think that they must be being driven by the exG14 cartel.
I can see no reason why the (non-English) exG14 cartel would want to oppose our qualification. We pose no significant threat to them, as we would only replace another English club and the financial slice of the cake for the non English clubs would remain the same.
We are only a threat to the team we would displace from the English "Big4." This leads me to think that it is probably the English based BIG4 that are driving this and using their mates and UeFA to do their dirty work.

The major weakness in our position would seem to be our lack of friends. Apart from our very recent flirtation with Barca, we have no historic or friendly links to any clubs, who we could rely on to help us fight our corner in any forthcoming battle with UeFA.

Though City seem to be aware of the dangers and are taking steps to put us in a better position, it seems that we do need to begin a charm offensive and gain allies to strengthen our political position.

Spot on analysis John - others have been trying to 'rationalise' the issue and see the flaws etc - it is simple self protectionism - mainly by Scum and Liverpool - but thay have significant friends in RM, ACM amongst others and they have a dialogue about a breakaway league - I would suspect that this is the Scum and Liverpool vehind the scenes with RM backing - they need to keep Chelsea (who were not historically one of the G14) = so they give Roman assurances that they will not be impacted

This is an emeging campaign - not just conspiracy theory - and all the posts about it being ellegal are simply well wide of the mark - it is not

We just need our management to be very ckever and make friends in Italy, Spain, France and Germany - because Platini will be less likely to push it if there is only a local English impact

Beefymcfc wrote:

Socrates wrote:This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

Soc, you state that the reason you wanted Hughes out was because of this and that the naive minds have woken and smelled the coffee? Well excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it these Naive Minds who actually had trust in the management and had smelt the coffee, had bacon butties and caught the worm as they say; unlike you who were sleeping!

You have also stated that the management have twigged, so does this mean you are actually giving Hughes credit for the insight he has shown and credit to the people who actually stood by the clubs management decision?

This is not a dig at you mate, but when you come over 'I told you so' when in reality it is those who supported Hughes continuation in post, then I seem to get a little confused!?!

Sorry, but the actual fact is that Hughes still remains unproven. Three narrow wins, playing fairly poorly, against three of the poorest sides in the division in no more than "so far so good." Long, long way to go before we find out whether the huge gamble of keeping Hughes has paid off. The percentage call would definitely have been to recruit a manager with proven success. The time constraints I was eluding to earlier in the year remain. The events since just prove the basis of my analysis was correct. Those who supported Hughes "continuity" are yet to be proven right about ANYTHING. In fact their arguments at the time about slow building and organic change have been absolutely blown away by the actions of Hughes himself!