Clattenburg

[the_georgian_genius]

It was a red card.

It was a pen.

and he got a few decisions wrong but which refeee doesn't?

Was fun giving him abuse though in the game.

No it wasn't , yes it was, none, yes it was.

if it wasn't a red card then why are you criticising Mancini for playing him then in another thread?

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

lol "too early for a red". some of you really crack me up :D

I refer the Honourable Gentleman to this:

[youtube]M47XbBfaNIo[/youtube]

Two wrongs don't make a right chief. He would've gone as well if I was in charge.

Then again he would've gone about 3 and a half minutes before that.

[Ted Hughes]

It was a red card.

It was a pen.

and he got a few decisions wrong but which refeee doesn't?

Was fun giving him abuse though in the game.

No it wasn't , yes it was, none, yes it was.

if it wasn't a red card then why are you criticising Mancini for playing him then in another thread?

I've made that clear in the other thread. Two inexperienced players who've never played together before, stuck together on the left side of the defence against a team like Arsenal is absolute fucking madness. Just because it wasn't a red card doesn't mean that Boyata was right to be two yards deeper than the rest of the defence or Boateng was right to be too far away from him out wide leaving a gap to pass through after Arsenal had already almost caught them out with exactly the same pass a minute earlier.

[Alioune DVToure]

It was a red card.

It was a pen.

and he got a few decisions wrong but which refeee doesn't?

Was fun giving him abuse though in the game.

Got to agree with this post. Also, have we not had a huge rub of the green in the last couple of games with the Lescott challenge agaisnt Newcastle and the two goals against Blackpool?? As they say, these things tend to even out over a season.

Best ref this season, the one in the Juve game. No idea who he was but he took no messing or fannying about from players telling them to get up, wish we saw more of this in the game.

The Poznan ref was pretty good too. Maybe a pooling of all UEFA-zone refs wouldn't be such a bad idea. On the other hand, maybe the ones we get to see over here in Europa and CL games are the cream of the crop and the average ref is just as bad on the continent.

[the_georgian_genius]

It was a red card.

It was a pen.

and he got a few decisions wrong but which refeee doesn't?

Was fun giving him abuse though in the game.

No it wasn't , yes it was, none, yes it was.

if it wasn't a red card then why are you criticising Mancini for playing him then in another thread?

I've made that clear in the other thread. Two inexperienced players who've never played together before, stuck together on the left side of the defence against a team like Arsenal is absolute fucking madness. Just because it wasn't a red card doesn't mean that Boyata was right to be two yards deeper than the rest of the defence or Boateng was right to be too far away from him out wide leaving a gap to pass through after Arsenal had already almost caught them out with exactly the same pass a minute earlier.

You keep beleiving that Ted.

[Ted Hughes]

It was a red card.

It was a pen.

and he got a few decisions wrong but which refeee doesn't?

Was fun giving him abuse though in the game.

No it wasn't , yes it was, none, yes it was.

if it wasn't a red card then why are you criticising Mancini for playing him then in another thread?

I've made that clear in the other thread. Two inexperienced players who've never played together before, stuck together on the left side of the defence against a team like Arsenal is absolute fucking madness. Just because it wasn't a red card doesn't mean that Boyata was right to be two yards deeper than the rest of the defence or Boateng was right to be too far away from him out wide leaving a gap to pass through after Arsenal had already almost caught them out with exactly the same pass a minute earlier.

You keep beleiving that Ted.

I will. I'm right & you know it.

[the_georgian_genius]

I will. I'm right & you know it.

Not really. You're excatly like me, except the pessimistic, grumpy and less knowledgable side of me.

[Beefymcfc]

lol "too early for a red". some of you really crack me up :D

I refer the Honourable Gentleman to this:

[youtube]M47XbBfaNIo[/youtube]

Two wrongs don't make a right chief. He would've gone as well if I was in charge.

Then again he would've gone about 3 and a half minutes before that.

I'm with you there, but what I'm getting at is the precedence. That is a near exact same situation where the player was taken out with the ball running straight to the keeper but Dowd decided that it wasn't a goal-scoring opportunity and therefore, not a sending off.

You could say it was the occasion, but when it comes to it does it really matter; it's all the same game isn't it, or is the system corrupt, picking and choosing between games dependant on the audience or the team playing (Gary Neville springs to mind)?

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I'm with you there, but what I'm getting at is the precedence. That is a near exact same situation where the player was taken out with the ball running straight to the keeper but Dowd decided that it wasn't a goal-scoring opportunity and therefore, not a sending off.

You could say it was the occasion, but when it comes to it does it really matter; it's all the same game isn't it, or is the system corrupt, picking and choosing between games dependant on the audience or the team playing (Gary Neville springs to mind).

Whilst it's true that Dowd may well have 'bottled it' I just don't think you can go round comparing one incident to another. Especially trying to play the City v United angle because the different events are all circumstantial.

I suppose it all depends on your outlook. I, unlike seemingly most of the board, don't think the FA/ media/ world are against us, and though we do get on the wrong side of some bad decisions, so does every other team. Evra was pushed over and denied a blatant pen on Sunday by the way.

The Neville one for example. He was exactly right in what he said: the second incident he should've been booked and consequently sent off. But his first was never a booking. Again, no one would love to see Neville go as much as I would but I refuse to let any loyalty or blind conspiracy theories get in the way of fair play, obvious decisions and subsequently, I feel, a broad acceptance and enjoyment of the overall game - whoever it is who's playing.

[Beefymcfc]

I'm with you there, but what I'm getting at is the precedence. That is a near exact same situation where the player was taken out with the ball running straight to the keeper but Dowd decided that it wasn't a goal-scoring opportunity and therefore, not a sending off.

You could say it was the occasion, but when it comes to it does it really matter; it's all the same game isn't it, or is the system corrupt, picking and choosing between games dependant on the audience or the team playing (Gary Neville springs to mind).

Whilst it's true that Dowd may well have 'bottled it' I just don't think you can go round comparing one incident to another. Especially trying to play the City v United angle because the different events are all circumstantial.

I suppose it all depends on your outlook. I, unlike seemingly most of the board, don't think the FA/ media/ world are against us, and though we do get on the wrong side of some bad decisions, so does every other team. Evra was pushed over and denied a blatant pen on Sunday by the way.

The Neville one for example. He was exactly right in what he said: the second incident he should've been booked and consequently sent off. But his first was never a booking. Again, no one would love to see Neville go as much as I would but I refuse to let any loyalty or blind conspiracy theories get in the way of fair play, obvious decisions and subsequently, I feel, a broad acceptance and enjoyment of the overall game - whoever it is who's playing.

I agree in principle to all that you say, if you see it from a very narrow angle. The media aren't out for us per sai, but they do have to sell column inches to the Top 4 and they aren't going to like it if they are singing our praises. And it's not playing a card, it's showing the truth. The whole point of refs going professional and earning as much as politicians was so that the rules would be more easily understood and therefoe acceptable to Joe Public, not as we have now with that many far flung decisions that we are so confused that we have no other option but to accept it is right.

It all comes down to the interpretation, but how can there be so many different ones considering they meet every month to iron out the factors? Ten years is a long time to get it right, or is it just that the ironing board is wonky?

[Ted Hughes]

I can remember a game at OT where the ref let Wio off with an absolutely blatant proffessional foul as the 'last man' against Arsenal, in the middle of the game. I think the rags went on to win the game. I can't remember an occasion where any of the 'big 4' were punished so early in games against each other. Usually the ref gives the benefit of the doubt to the defender especially so early, in such important games. Be interesting to see how Clattenburg interprets future incidents of that kind.

[Beefymcfc]

Anyone remember the Terry Rugby Tackle on Jo a few years back where he was sent off only to appeal the decision and play the very next game.

Wasn't that down to the fact that even though Terry was the last man, it wasn't a clear goal scoring opportunity as Jo was 30 yards out?

That says to me that we know the rules, but use them at our/their discretion.

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I'm with you there, but what I'm getting at is the precedence. That is a near exact same situation where the player was taken out with the ball running straight to the keeper but Dowd decided that it wasn't a goal-scoring opportunity and therefore, not a sending off.

You could say it was the occasion, but when it comes to it does it really matter; it's all the same game isn't it, or is the system corrupt, picking and choosing between games dependant on the audience or the team playing (Gary Neville springs to mind).

Whilst it's true that Dowd may well have 'bottled it' I just don't think you can go round comparing one incident to another. Especially trying to play the City v United angle because the different events are all circumstantial.

I suppose it all depends on your outlook. I, unlike seemingly most of the board, don't think the FA/ media/ world are against us, and though we do get on the wrong side of some bad decisions, so does every other team. Evra was pushed over and denied a blatant pen on Sunday by the way.

The Neville one for example. He was exactly right in what he said: the second incident he should've been booked and consequently sent off. But his first was never a booking. Again, no one would love to see Neville go as much as I would but I refuse to let any loyalty or blind conspiracy theories get in the way of fair play, obvious decisions and subsequently, I feel, a broad acceptance and enjoyment of the overall game - whoever it is who's playing.

I agree in principle to all that you say, if you see it from a very narrow angle. The media aren't out for us per sai, but they do have to sell column inches to the Top 4 and they aren't going to like it if they are singing our praises.

Don't agree with this chief.

Newspapers have to sell column inches: yes. But NOTHING sells more than scandal and big teams/ players being in the shit. Terrygate, Rooney shagging grannies, Liverpool's downfall, Ashley Cole scandal. You only have to look at the recent Rooney saga. How many column inches were devoted to him wanting away? I bet they eclipsed him signing a new contract by a massive amount. The press are in for everyone, like it or not. Because of our status we are now a big team, in the eyes of the press at least, and the way we got here makes us even more hated. It's one of those things the club has to deal with. Still when we play well papers will have to praise us, because observers aren't stupid.

And it's not playing a card, it's showing the truth. The whole point of refs going professional and earning as much as politicians was so that the rules would be more easily understood and therefoe acceptable to Joe Public, not as we have now with that many far flung decisions that we are so confused that we have no other option but to accept it is right.

Again, I am in agreement with what you say, but using the "He had this so I want this" argument is tantamount to a five year old. Yes decisions are sometimes unfair, but they happen to everyone.

It all comes down to the interpretation, but how can there be so many different ones considering they meet every month to iron out the factors? Ten years is a long time to get it right, or is it just that the ironing board is wonky?

The argument of getting ex players in to ref games is a good one. But wy the fuck would they want to? You saw the amount of stick they get on Sunday, and that's when they get it right! There's no explanation I can give as to why people get things wrong, I suppose the only difference is that i don't believe they're doing it on purpose.

[Ted Hughes]

Anyone remember the Terry Rugby Tackle on Jo a few years back where he was sent off only to appeal the decision and play the very next game.

Wasn't that down to the fact that even though Terry was the last man, it wasn't a clear goal scoring opportunity as Jo was 30 yards out?

That says to me that we know the rules, but use them at our/their discretion.

Yep. That was because the defender 'may' have got across. Just as Hart 'may' have got to the ball 1st. More chance for a snowball in Hell than Boyata getting the same consideration though.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm with you there, but what I'm getting at is the precedence. That is a near exact same situation where the player was taken out with the ball running straight to the keeper but Dowd decided that it wasn't a goal-scoring opportunity and therefore, not a sending off.

You could say it was the occasion, but when it comes to it does it really matter; it's all the same game isn't it, or is the system corrupt, picking and choosing between games dependant on the audience or the team playing (Gary Neville springs to mind).

Whilst it's true that Dowd may well have 'bottled it' I just don't think you can go round comparing one incident to another. Especially trying to play the City v United angle because the different events are all circumstantial.

I suppose it all depends on your outlook. I, unlike seemingly most of the board, don't think the FA/ media/ world are against us, and though we do get on the wrong side of some bad decisions, so does every other team. Evra was pushed over and denied a blatant pen on Sunday by the way.

The Neville one for example. He was exactly right in what he said: the second incident he should've been booked and consequently sent off. But his first was never a booking. Again, no one would love to see Neville go as much as I would but I refuse to let any loyalty or blind conspiracy theories get in the way of fair play, obvious decisions and subsequently, I feel, a broad acceptance and enjoyment of the overall game - whoever it is who's playing.

I agree in principle to all that you say, if you see it from a very narrow angle. The media aren't out for us per sai, but they do have to sell column inches to the Top 4 and they aren't going to like it if they are singing our praises.

Don't agree with this chief.

Newspapers have to sell column inches: yes. But NOTHING sells more than scandal and big teams/ players being in the shit. Terrygate, Rooney shagging grannies, Liverpool's downfall, Ashley Cole scandal. You only have to look at the recent Rooney saga. How many column inches were devoted to him wanting away? I bet they eclipsed him signing a new contract by a massive amount. The press are in for everyone, like it or not. Because of our status we are now a big team, in the eyes of the press at least, and the way we got here makes us even more hated. It's one of those things the club has to deal with. Still when we play well papers will have to praise us, because observers aren't stupid.

And it's not playing a card, it's showing the truth. The whole point of refs going professional and earning as much as politicians was so that the rules would be more easily understood and therefoe acceptable to Joe Public, not as we have now with that many far flung decisions that we are so confused that we have no other option but to accept it is right.

Again, I am in agreement with what you say, but using the "He had this so I want this" argument is tantamount to a five year old. Yes decisions are sometimes unfair, but they happen to everyone.

It all comes down to the interpretation, but how can there be so many different ones considering they meet every month to iron out the factors? Ten years is a long time to get it right, or is it just that the ironing board is wonky?

The argument of getting ex players in to ref games is a good one. But wy the fuck would they want to? You saw the amount of stick they get on Sunday, and that's when they get it right! There's no explanation I can give as to why people get things wrong, I suppose the only difference is that i don't believe they're doing it on purpose.

Graham Poll said on the radio today that he thought the Neville incident was down to the ref subconciously favouring Utd & that, for the 1st time, he realised that perhaps fans have a point about the way refs deal with the 'big' teams. He then said that he gave Ronaldo free kicks for the slightest touch because Ronaldo was 'volatile' & he believed it was the best way to keep him calm, wheras with some players he would let the same incident go because he believed they would 'rather ride the challenge'. Make of that what you will.

[Tokyo Blue]

Yes decisions are sometimes unfair, but they happen to everyone.

Can you "do a Beefy" and find me just one, a big one, a game-changing one that went against united then, please. Preferably at old trafford. It shouldn't be that difficult to find one if, as you say, they happen to everyone.

[Patrick]

Can't understand this thread, a very reasonable red card, no complaints that's footballs rules.

To whinge about it is to be a tool in my humble opinion

There were several thousand 'tools' at the ground this afternoon in that case.

That'd be near every City fan in the ground, the others were still finishing their pints.

You both have a point, I was grumpy and emotional and felt the same when he was sent off.

I shouldn't have called anyone a tool, bad Patrick, my point was that to whinge about refs decisions is annoying to me when actually The defender was the one that was risking the game with the tackle

[brite blu sky]

lol "too early for a red". some of you really crack me up :D

You have a genuine argument LookMum and fair enough. Refereeing isn't exact though is it.. it is the refs sense at the moment and interpretation of the rules, which are necessarily ambiguous, so there is always leeway. That is probably the root of all contention about refs. That is the way it is and personally i accept that and usually just begrudgingly accept whatever decisions get meted out whether i think it is a mistake or not. Personally i think refs should be careful at the start of games and show leniency if possible while players get up to speed. It may well sound daft but players imo take a few minutes to get into the swing and a sending off in the first exchanges, unless it is something malicious, just ruins the tie. That is what i think. I also think that referees are aware of this and by the same token dishing out yellows very early on can lose the discipline of a match and the respect of the players for the ref. We have seen it happen and it is obvious the referee 'losing it' early on can have that effect.
Referees have choices in most instances and they are aware that they have a 'game' to oversee, they can see the bigger picture and they have a responsibility if they can not to ruin it.

[s1ty m]

red card? get a grip! the law is clear in stating that a red card is for denying a goal scoring chance, being the last man is not a law in any form of football. chamakh had lost control of the ball by booting too far forward. nailed on yellow card for the clumsy trip, free kick, and on goes the game.

the pen was a pen, probably...

clattenburg is useless.

[King Kev]

clattenburg is useless.

Can we all at least agree on this?