*** Terry Cam ***

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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:36 am

Day 3 of the World Swearing Championships in Courtroom 1
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Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck takes his seat in the public gallery, as he has done all week. Friends of John Terry also in attendance.
Minor disagreement in public gallery of Court 1 as Ferdinand's parents arrive to find 2 of Terry's supporters in seats they've had this week. Terry supporters stand their ground and Mr & Mrs Ferdinand, clearly unhappy, leave public gallery to complain to officials

Terry arrives and takes his place in the witness stand. Black suit, pink tie. His cross-examination resumes ...


Penny: "Are you sure Ferdinand said to you, "..calling me a black c***" Terry: "Yes"

Prosecutor: Sure you heard the words ``shagging bridge's misses'' and 'calling me a black c**t?'' Terry: Sure

Prosecutor telling Terry he told the FA he didn't hear what Ferdinand was saying when he made 'shagging' gesture. Now saying he did.

We're now watching video of incident at side angle showing Terry running back and shouting back towards Ferdinand

Going through Terry shouting back frame by frame. Lawyer being very precise over sequence of what happened swear word by swear word

Prosecutor: "anton's words were 'a black c*nt?" Terry : "yes". "So why did you reply "fucking black c*nt?" why add the 'f'?"

Penny argues Terry "added" the word "f***ing" to what he claims Ferdinand said - suggesting he wasn't just repeating it - as Terry claims

Ashley Cole walks past Terry on footage and we can't see Terry's mouth briefly

Prosecution showing footage of critical exchange in intricate detail in attempt to show Terry's words were abusive - and NOT repetitive

Terry asked to explain why he used the word 'and' before the offensive remarks. Says he doesn't know

Penny shows that Terry appears to also utter the word "and". "How does that 'and' fit in?" Terry: "I'm not too sure how that fits in"

Penny suggests Terry has come up with "elaborate flannel" about what was said. (aside: I think that's a legal term)

Prosecutor asks Terry if he actually said to Ferdinand `I've shagged your missus as well'' before making BC remark. Terry says 'no'

Tunnel fracas: Prosecutor: Come on Mr. Terry let’s face it. Someone said something about you and it all kicked off? Terry says about his mum

Prosecution: Did you say to Ferdinand "and yours, you fbc" - suggestion that Terry was insulting Anton Ferdinand and not being repetitious.

Penny tells Terry he "lost it" because Ferdinand was "humiliating you in public"
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:52 am

Prosecutor: You're a great football player and you shouldn’t have to take this off opposing players? Terry: That's football

Terry "Nobody in this room can tell me what I've heard..there's no video on Anton, it's on me, that's unfortunate"

Prosecutor: "yes, but you can tell us what you said"

Pros says Terry angry that 18 months after his alleged affair, "Anton just wouldn't leave it alone, would he?"

Terry: "why would this incident tip me over the edge when I've heard it (goading over Bridge) a million times before?"

Prosecutor to Terry:"you used 'black' as a feature to pick on him just like some people are fat, some are ugly"

Penny: "I suggest to you this was your insult directed at him because you were fed up with him" Terry: "I disagree"

Terry denies that. Says he was repeating words said by Ferdinand.
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Scatman » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:21 am

"I shagged your wife, and she's got a fucking black cunt"

Case closed
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:22 am

Penny: "this accusation (by AF -which Terry claims he heard) was 'big potatoes' wasn't it? Huge..a massive upping of the ante.." JT: "Yeah"

Prosecutor: "The accusation was big potatoes, wasn't it? Huge, massive...you are a figurehead in this country, an example to children"

Crown in Terry trial: 'If referees enforced the no-swearing rule you lot would be off the pitch in 10 mins. Wouldn't be much of a spectacle'

Prosecutor: Is your evidence if you appointed Chris Foy or Howard Webb he's just accused me of being racist. He'd say JT get on with it? No

Terry says referee Chris Hoy was near Anton Ferdinand when the QPR player shouted abuse but nothing was noted in refs report.

Prosecutor: Let's face it 3 points is 3 points your reputation is a different thing altogether

Terry: 'I have been in the newspapers. I have had this very public incident in my life & since then I have had an awful lot [of abuse]'

Prosecutor on moments before Anton went to Chelsea dressing room: `One way or the other you've had a chat with Ashley before that.'

Penny highlights discrepancy - when meeting with AF happened. JT says 20 mins after game. AF says 45 mins. Terry: "I disagree with that"

Prosecutors tells Terry `You knew this was an issue by this stage' about summoning Anton. Says he or teammates heard of video circulating

Crown to Terry: 'Why didn't you want to take it further [Ferdinand's accusation]? People accusing you of being a racist?'

Penny: "..whether your mouth had been caught on TV, or someone knew it was going off on You Tube, you knew you had a problem."

Terry: `I knew there was nothing out there that could show I did anything wrong.'

Terry: "i would not have put out statement (on the sunday night) if i had anything to hide"

Terry to court: 'I was keen to go forward with FA & police statement. If I had something to hide I would have been thinking 'Shit ...''

Penny: "You were trying to smooth it over & put it to bed weren't you?" Terry: "No that's not true."

Prosecutor tells Terry either false allegation of racism made or he's used racial words `which are undoubtedly on wrong side of line.'

Crown: 'Why didn't you call Rio [to help smooth it over]? Terry: 'I did call Rio, he wouldn't take my call'

Prosecutor: In the game of PR it's important you get your story out as quickly as possible
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:51 am

Pros: "you knew you had crossed the line....you were stuck with this story as soon as you put it in the press"

Prosecutor tells Terry he knew Ferdinand was ``clueless about what had gone on when he saw you''

Terry shown clip when he said 'black c***'. Crown asks about Mikel reaction [he turns head towards Terry]. Defence objects to question

Terry asks Crown if Mikel has been asked whether he heard anything. Crown says Mikel said in statement crowd noise obscured voices on pitch

Terry being asked why he said in FA interview why he said 'you' black c**t? Terry: Slip of the tongue

Magistrate asks prosecutor to hurry up with cross examination. He says he's coming to a close.

Pros; "can you think of any reason why Mr Ferdinand would do it?" Terry: "no"

Crown: 'You're the England captain'. Terry: 'I used to be'

Pros: "Mr Ferdinand is running a huge risk, isn't he? A false allegation against you... He risks looking stupid in the long run?"

Crown: 'Were you ever consulted as captain on [England] team selection?' Terry: 'No, not with him'. Crown: 'That's Capello?' Terry: 'Yes'
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:55 am

Ashley Cole arrives at Westminster Magistrates Court,
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Court resumes after 5 min break, Terry back in witness box. Terry does sound check for public gallery. Says: 'Please, please, please'.


Prosecution cross-examination is complete, defence now picking up with questions.

Defence: 'How many times have you been sent off in your career?' Terry: 'Four times ... I remain calm in tense matches'

Def: have you ever snapped in the 600+ games you've played? Terry says no, thats why remains captain at Chelsea, sent off only four times.

Terry being asked by his lawyer about affair injuction and when lifted. Asked about how many times he's been insulted by players about it

Terry says he's been abused about affair 100 times by players about affair

Terry: 'My mum dated a man from Liverpool and LFC fans made up a song 'My mum loves scouse c***''

Terry says he has become immune over time to taunts over Wayne Bridge incident and chants about his mum.

Terry says top 2 insults he gets on pitch are "shagging Bridges missus" and that his mum "loves Scouse cock". He's become immune, he says.

Court seeing key 8 secs of footage. Terry says his attitude changed during that time period by what he says Anton Ferdinand accused him of.

Terry says tunnel row at Loftus Road was sparked by insult about his mum though he was not there when it started

Def asks why Terry spoke to Ferdinand after game. Terry says it was to "clear up what happened on pitch" and was end of the matter for him.

Defence: 'What would be the consequences [of making a racist remark]?' Terry: 'Very serious'

Terry's lawyer ask him what consequences would be for Ferdinand if he admitted making up racism accusations.

Terry: Very serious

Defence going through particular sections of Terry's interview with FA from Oct 2011 and clarifying his explanations to them.

Terry: It’s the first time it’s happened ot me. First time I've been accused of that on a football pitch ... it’s an instinctive response

Terry testimony finishes with him telling his lawyer he would have acted differently in hindsight

Ashley Cole called as a witness
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:07 am

ALL RISE ... AND THAT INCLUDES YOU MR COLE!

Ashley Cole arrives in 3-piece suit and quite a strong cologne. Has left a scent trail in his wake.

Magistrate tells Ashley Cole most people would rather he stands up. Cole: "I'd rather sit down."

Chief Magistrate: "We'd prefer it if you stood'. Ashley Cole: 'I'd like to sit down'

Cole: I'd say (Terry's) a close friend. I've played with for 6 or 7 years at Chelsea and for England

Cole being asked about 'diversity' at Chelsea

Says he doesn't see Terry socially. Plays the odd round of golf. Describes Anton Ferdinand as friend and Rio Ferdinand as a 'close friend'
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:13 am

Cole: 'I told my lawyer I didn't want to get involved. I know JT and I know Anton'. Says he wanted to be 'neutral'

Cole says against certain teams and players there is on pitch abuse. Says you get banter between players but not all the time.

Defence in Terry trial: 'Have you had racial abuse from fans?' Cole: 'Yes, when I play in England games in Europe'

Cole: as a captain, Terry is one of the best, inspirational, a friend to everyone, cool, calm and collected

Ashley Cole asked by Terry's brief if he's seen Terry react to abuse about affair (1/2)

Cole: No I’d probably say we laugh about it. I had same situation with me. It’s kind of part and parcel of the game you get used to it 2/2)

Ashley Cole tells court in Terry trial that Loftus Road can 'get feisty at times'

Court now watching real-time Sky broadcast of QPR v Chelsea from 84th min onwards.
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby twosips » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:17 am

God i think i hate Ashley Cole more.
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:23 am

Def: were there verbal exchanges in game between players? Cole: yeah, a few.

Defence: 'Did the manager [AVB] speak to the players at half-time [of QPR game in Nov 2011]?' Ashley Cole: 'I can't remember'

Cole: "I saw JT running back and Anton making gestures, shouting things. I can make out him saying 'Bridgey, black, c-u-n-t'

Chief magistrate encourages Cole to say 'c***' word out aloud rather than spell it out, 'Don't be shy'. Cole: 'I'm not'

Cole then says Terry approached him and said something along the lines of 'he (AF) thinks I'm being a racist.'

Cole says he didn't shake Ferdinand's hand at end of game because "what he was doing wasn't necessary"

How did tunnel incident end? Cole `Maybe fiz hall was dragging their players back and I think John Terry said let’s go to the changing room'
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:28 am

Cole: "I think, not 100pc, that Terry spoke first saying 'did you think I was being racist?'" at post-match chat

Ashley Cole asked by defence if he could remember more about Terry-Ferdinand conversation. 'No, I was looking forward to going on a night out'

Cole now talking about AF coming into CFC dressing room. Says he and JT both challenged AF and were assured no problem.

Cole says dressing room conversation ended between Terry and Ferdinand with a handshake and a pat on the back between the two.

This is Terry's defence lawyer taking Cole through his evidence. Cross-examination will be later.

Terry Cole said Terry told him that he felt Ferdinand thought he had made a racist slur

Cole tells the court he was 'less than a car's length away' from Terry at time of incident

Cole is asked why he is open-mouthed on the video footage. "I was either hot or not happy about the (AF) gestures."

Cole thought dressing room meet was 25-30mins after game. Terry thought 15mins. Ferdinand thought 45mins.

Cole on how he felt conflicted: JT is my teammate and friend - anton and rio and his family I've known for a long time

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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Goataldo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:36 am

twosips wrote:God i think i hate Ashley Cole more.


"Ashley Cole arrives in 3-piece suit and quite a strong cologne. Has left a scent trail in his wake." Ahahahahahahaha, ace.

It's really difficult not to despise these pigshit thick overpaid dullards innit!?

Very much appreciated all this Chinners. Compelling stuff.
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:37 am

Cole now being questioned by prosecutor who starts by saying "Anton was out of order, wasn't he?" Cole agrees

Cole said he made statement "because the FA summoned me to do it". FA drew up his statement, he said.

Prosecution asking if Ashley Cole is a lip-reading expert. Cole: "no, but I know what I see".

Cross-examination starts. Pros: "Have you grown up in a house where anyone is deaf? You're not a lip-reading expert, are you?"

Cole: "No."

It's got nothing to do with that', Cole says when prosecutor says as Chelsea captain he shouldn't be disrespected like that

Cole: "some people might think it's cool to do that (behave like AF), some people not. I think 'no'."

Crown in Terry trial to Ashley Cole: 'You've had lurid details about you in the press. Not much fun is it?'

Cole: 'No'

Cole says "I didn't say (to AF): 'you can't talk to JT like that'. I said: 'what you were doing was out of order'"

Cole told he's had 'lurid' details of his private life come out in public. Cole: I'm a grown man. i can take it
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:41 am

We interupt this feature with a word from it's compiler ...

Ha ha ha, some of this stuff is comedy gold!

<slinks off back to courtroom 1>
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:47 am

Prosecutor: "You used to play for Arsenal, nobody makes any noise at the Emirates do they?" Cole: "Am I supposed to laugh at that?" [LAUGHTER in court]

Cole:'I would say Loftus Road is not as loud as the Emirates'

Pros: let's not get involved with that

Cole: you're the one who brought it up

Cole says he didn't hear Terry say anything. Concedes he didn't hear Ferdinand say anything either just read his lips.

Pros: but you were able to hear what Anton said 20 yards away?

Cole: I saw with my eyes

Cole tells court that he did not hear Terry say a word but that he could understand what Ferdinand was saying by looking at him. Concedes he got words 'Bridge' 'Black' from 'what I saw with my eyes'

Cole says he was unhappy with "whole situation" not just fist pumping gesture on pitch.

Cole denies "beckoning" AF into Chelsea dressing room. "By me? No chance"

Pros: you and JT knew there was a problem. Maybe someone told you about youtube. Maybe a phone

Cole says he can't be aware of YouTube because "you can't get a reception in Loftus Road dressing room"

Cole: you are insinuating that i knew

Pros: what i am suggesting is you and Terry got anton into the dressing room to try and smooth things over

Pros:Anton was clueless wasn't he

Cole: yes

Cole tells court he did not bring Ferdinand into dressing room. 'I had nothing to do with it. I put my ankles in ice & then have a shower'

Pros: if anton had accused JT falsely of using racist language that would be a serious allegation

Cole: of course it would

Pros: same as if JT had used racist language

Cole: it's totally different if you're just repeating it

Pros: either way it certainly wasn't just handbags

Cole: "It kind of was (handbags). We shouldn't be sitting here personally."


Prosecution finishes questioning (for now?) Ashley Cole thanked by Chief Mag for giving evidence "even though I know you didn't want to". Break for lunch .... Hurrah, I need a pint after all that!!!

Back later folks ....
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:28 pm

Ray Wilkins (my word!) is in the building .... Magistrate says if case finishes tomorrow he'll probably reach verdict Friday afternoon, but doesn't rule out decision on Saturday. David Richardson of Ellisons Travel (Chelsea's team bus) is next to give evidence

Dave Richardson (DR) says after game, 1st players got on coach at around 18.25. Terry back on by 18.30

Chelsea coach departed QPR ground at 1849, driver says. Told by police to remove all Chelsea signs and turn TVs off

DR being cross examined. Reiterates that JT was one of the first back on the coach
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:49 pm

Next witness: Ray Wilkins, who takes Ashley Cole's lead and takes a seat before giving evidence

RW describes JT as 'just a friend'. First met JT under Vialli when he was 16 or 17.

Wilkins confirms he was commentating on the game in question. Asked by defence if has any business dealings with Terry. "No, just a friend"

Defence in Terry trial: 'The Chelsea squad is a multi-racial squad. Wilkins: 'Most certainly'

Wilkins saying how training sessions involve a lot more contact & fall-outs than matches, including "physical stuff", 22 / 24 guys who want to be selected on Sat to play - all trying to impress the coach.

Wilkins: "I never saw John getting involved. He would be the one pulling players apart." JT took his job as chelsea captain - and england 'seriously'

Wilkins: "He's given me grief on numerous occasions but only verbal...but that's what you'd expect.." (Terry smiles in dock)


Chief magistrate: 'Thanks very much for coming'. Wilkins. 'My pleasure'.
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:51 pm

Now Bruce Buck, CFC chairman, is in witness box

Buck has been with Chelsea since Abramovich bought club on July 1 2003. Says relationship with Terry is employer/employee

Bruce Buck (BB) says he doesn't socialise with the Chelsea players

BB: JT takes his position as Chelsea captain 'very seriously' and has seen him under pressure 'many many times'

BB: I would say he has an almost uncanny mental strength. when there is noise or bumps and bruises in his personal life...

BB:... he is able to go on a football field and shut that out.

"other people have it but I've never seen it quite like John Terry has it"

BB: confirms he was at the match on 23rd oct v QPR at Loftus

BB: says he would normally have seen players after game but because of bad language in the stands his wife just wanted to go home

Buck tells court 'vociferous' QPR fans gave he & his wife such abuse that at end of game 'she was so upset she wanted to go straight home'


Character references in support of Terry are now about to be read out to court
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:56 pm

Various statements are now being read ...

Statement from Salomon Kalou being read out - "I have never heard JT use any form of racial language"
''tho we all use swear words in training and in games, I've never heard JT use any form of racist language'
"I've never heard John Terry use any form of racist language.."

Identical statements from: Bosingwa, Cech, Meireles, Lampard, Mata, Turnbull, Romeu, Hilario, Sturridge, Ferreira, Lukaku, Torres, Essien

Mohamed Ramzen Younes -- British Pakistani Muslim from Bradford -- businessman who runs car service in Surrey wrote letter in support. Younes says his service has provided cars to Terry. Says he was shocked that he was charged with a racial offence
Hired by Terry to take him and family to games and airports. heard about the allegations in the media. Feels v strongly JT is not a racist. Holds firm views about racism. would never accept racism has a place in society, If clients were racists he would cancel contract

Glowing statement also from Ryan Bertrand (young black player drafted at last minute for champions league final - also in GB olympics squad) Bertrand descrobes Terry as a 'tutor and mentor'. Says he really appreciates Terry introducing him to his family at his home '
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Re: *** Terry Cam ***

Postby Chinners » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:02 pm

A statement from the special one aka Jose Mourinho: Mourinho statement to court in Terry trial begins: 'I am Jose Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix and I am manager of Real Madrid'
Mourinho gives statement on behalf of Terry, lauding his "dignity" and "professionalism" as Chelsea captain. "I'm certain John Terry is not a racist."... 'as soon as I met JT i knew he was exactly the right candidate for captain... '
Mourinho, I said among off-field causes were "Lets keep racism out of football" and "Help for Heroes". 'I can say with 1st hand experience, he [Terry] was 1st rate conduit between players & staff'

Terry's lawyer trying to get judge to allow a professor who can discount reliability of lip-reading evidence into court.
Judge asks defense lawyer if he's saying that his own lip-reader's evidence is not reliable.
Thing to remember is prosecution has to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that Terry used offensive racist language in public order offense
Judge says there's nothing special in lip-reading evidence that makes it inadmissible compared to other evidence. 'it's a matter of weight'

Drogba whose charity Terry has quoted as helping during the trial didn't sign a statement in support of him

Jon Obi Mikel who was next Terry when he shouted words that brought him to trial also didn't sign a statement in support of Chelsea captain
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