FFP Again

[Redna]

Where does FFP fit in regarding PSG, that is a problem that have occured for those responsible for this farse. Of course they can fix draws which they has.They have tried hard to make us eliminated after the group stage. Don't be suprised if we draw top oposition should we survive the group stage whereas PSG will face the weakest team availible in every draw just to uppen their income should they win the CL.
And where does the Russian clubs fit in with the FFP. Someone told me that UEFA is sponsored big time by russian money.

I think Gill and the scummers have come to the conclusion that because of PSG's wealth and russian funding UEFA the FFP is not gonna work out in their proposed way. What they then do is to try to implement an even stricter FFP into the BPL just to kill us of.
Love City Hate United, in that order.
CTID!!

[Beefymcfc]

FFP, a way of managing another clubs accounts.

[feedthegreek]

trouble with this unfair play is its being discussed on here and we see the disadvantages of it from our point of view, but the mass media except for martin samuels, they all agree it should be brought in, and cite portsmouth as an excuse to encourage it, well look at pompey what happened there. not 1 premier league team except arse, scum and scouse, should vote for it if they try and force it onto other clubs, kills dreams of millions of fans of having their day in the limelight. so its ok to be millions in debt scum, an excuse for scouse owners not to spend cos they cant compete with us and chelsea, and a russian at arsenal usmanov who would probably spent more than us if he were ever to get on arsenals board. its an absolute joke of a scheme to keep protecting the g14 clubs. it must be a basic right in any buisness to be able to spend whatever you want to be a success. id like to think if i had millions to spend personally my neighbours wouldnt be able to stop me just because they had,nt.

[john68]

Rag Hater,
Please go do your research mate. Try reading through statements by the likes of Khaldoon, Cook Marwood et al on how our investment WAS changed.
If you think the FFPR is in the future, it is here now in the way it has ALREADY changed our investments over the past few seasons.

I'm sure yor'e right but the point I was trying to make is that I think the Sheikh knew every situation we were gonna be confronted with.

Considering City have already stated they have been in continuous dialogue with UeFA regarding the FFPR, I would think that you are correct. City will know exactly what they have to do in order to comply. They would also know whether this is just pie in the sky bullshit. The fact they seem to have chose compliance, leads me to think they have considered non compliance to be a danger to their investment.

[john68]

trouble with this unfair play is its being discussed on here and we see the disadvantages of it from our point of view, but the mass media except for martin samuels, they all agree it should be brought in, and cite portsmouth as an excuse to encourage it, well look at pompey what happened there. not 1 premier league team except arse, scum and scouse, should vote for it if they try and force it onto other clubs, kills dreams of millions of fans of having their day in the limelight. so its ok to be millions in debt scum, an excuse for scouse owners not to spend cos they cant compete with us and chelsea, and a russian at arsenal usmanov who would probably spent more than us if he were ever to get on arsenals board. its an absolute joke of a scheme to keep protecting the g14 clubs. it must be a basic right in any buisness to be able to spend whatever you want to be a success. id like to think if i had millions to spend personally my neighbours wouldnt be able to stop me just because they had,nt.

Pretty well sums it up succinctly FTG Mate.
Not a peep from the media?....Well....they kept pretty silent over the financial and structural changes when the old European Cup was kidnapped by the old elite. They know full well that the big clubs have the most fans, create the biggest readerships and audiences, allowing them to reap the benefits from advertising revenue. Where the big clubs go, the media sheep will also follow. Vested interest mate.

[Beefymcfc]

Thinking about it, haven't we already got sanctions in place to stop clubs going bust? Why don't the league try and enforce them before jumping up and down claiming that Pompey were the perfect example. If they'd actually seen what was going on (which we all did) then it could've been nipped in the bud earlier.

Saying that, it was the media's love-in that was spending the money. Triffic!

[feedthegreek]

trouble with this unfair play is its being discussed on here and we see the disadvantages of it from our point of view, but the mass media except for martin samuels, they all agree it should be brought in, and cite portsmouth as an excuse to encourage it, well look at pompey what happened there. not 1 premier league team except arse, scum and scouse, should vote for it if they try and force it onto other clubs, kills dreams of millions of fans of having their day in the limelight. so its ok to be millions in debt scum, an excuse for scouse owners not to spend cos they cant compete with us and chelsea, and a russian at arsenal usmanov who would probably spent more than us if he were ever to get on arsenals board. its an absolute joke of a scheme to keep protecting the g14 clubs. it must be a basic right in any buisness to be able to spend whatever you want to be a success. id like to think if i had millions to spend personally my neighbours wouldnt be able to stop me just because they had,nt.

Pretty well sums it up succinctly FTG Mate.
Not a peep from the media?....Well....they kept pretty silent over the financial and structural changes when the old European Cup was kidnapped by the old elite. They know full well that the big clubs have the most fans, create the biggest readerships and audiences, allowing them to reap the benefits from advertising revenue. Where the big clubs go, the media sheep will also follow. Vested interest mate.

basically if the present members of the premier league vote to bring it in they are signing their own death warrants, i watched coventry today nobody there hardly they were always in the first division years ago when i was a kid won the fa cup in 87 with dave bennet playing, what chance for them it stinks.attendance at cov 9500.

[john68]

Been trying to figure out what any club, other than the rags, Arsenal, Chelsea and L'pool would gain from favouring the prem FFPR.

The only thing I can come up with is that some owners understand that under the present situation the they have no chance of ever gaining CL qualification. If they have given up on that, the introduction of any FFPR would not only cut their costs but also limit the spending ability of those above them. Possibly making it slightly easier to keep pace.

[ronk]

Been trying to figure out what any club, other than the rags, Arsenal, Chelsea and L'pool would gain from favouring the prem FFPR.

The only thing I can come up with is that some owners understand that under the present situation the they have no chance of ever gaining CL qualification. If they have given up on that, the introduction of any FFPR would not only cut their costs but also limit the spending ability of those above them. Possibly making it slightly easier to keep pace.

PROFIT

FFP is this simple, more money for owners, less money for players, less chance that clubs will be so hard up they don't pay player wages (& therefore this can be supported in good conscience by the player union).

Yes they also want to be cunts about it while they have the chance, but they'll stop losing money.

If everyone does it the same then there's no change in the balance of power and there won't be a very noticeable change in the quality of the league.

[Beefymcfc]

Been trying to figure out what any club, other than the rags, Arsenal, Chelsea and L'pool would gain from favouring the prem FFPR.

The only thing I can come up with is that some owners understand that under the present situation the they have no chance of ever gaining CL qualification. If they have given up on that, the introduction of any FFPR would not only cut their costs but also limit the spending ability of those above them. Possibly making it slightly easier to keep pace.

It's very true mate and you can understand why certain clubs would jump on the bandwaggon. However, if we think about this long term and the fact that the Championship and the rest of the league have introduced this then in reality the biggest supported/best managed clubs will all float to the top leaving someone like Wigan with its 16000 crowd possibly dropping down the league. However, that's not going to be the case because they have the Prem League revenue to look after them and would ensure they came straight back up. What was it they got this season, 40 odd million for finishing where?

The truth is that there will be a lot of clubs who will do exactly what the Rags tell them too with regard to this because they know they will be looked after by the big boys of the Premier League. Those little nuances where United players are loaned out for experience or making sure that they get a say in the halls of power.

Gill will frame it so that it appeals to the majority and ensure there is clear workarounds for the few that will have doubts, just to fit them in the script. My personal feeling that the Rags will get this through in some manner then when it suits them (probably when less indebted) change them again to capitalise once more.

It's the timing though, isn't it, and so transparent as well. The one saving grace is our new CEO, an expert in all things football and definately someone who won't take shit. If it's good for us as well, we'll be having a piece of it. If not, they will have to accommodate our doubts.

[Blue Since 76]

Been trying to figure out what any club, other than the rags, Arsenal, Chelsea and L'pool would gain from favouring the prem FFPR.

The only thing I can come up with is that some owners understand that under the present situation the they have no chance of ever gaining CL qualification. If they have given up on that, the introduction of any FFPR would not only cut their costs but also limit the spending ability of those above them. Possibly making it slightly easier to keep pace.

It makes no sense for the smaller clubs, as they're killing their dream. They haven't got the success, so can't get the turnover and without the turnover, thy can't buy players to bring success.

No sense, unless the PL FFP required accounts to be in a certain state before you were granted the licence. If that state requires certain levels of turnover, they could almost ban promotion. And who would that benefit?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

@Piccs,
Whether you consider the FFP all piss and wind Mate, It has already had a major effect on City.
It caused our owners to change their whole investment strategy. Considering the mega millions already invested, our owners are certainly taking it seriously.
As I have posted, I think City will be not far short of compliance and with the mitigation of financial improvement and our commitment to youth, I don't see much chance of us being banned. However, to actually reach that financial position, the existence of the FFPR caused us to curtail our spending and player investment.

Has it really changed City's plan? They always said that they would have to spend big to break through to the top. Not forgetting speculation we were prepared to spunk zillions on Christine.
i also think we will comply, there are enough grey areas in the wording of FFP for us to meet the criteria, such as 'moving towards break even'.
Isee our long term plans for City and the community and can not believe that Uefa could really object to our direction.
How the fuck will PSG comply when French football attracts much less tv cash and PSG's crowds are at 43,000,(and that is a big improvement on recent years). they seriously don't seem to give a toss

[Ted Hughes]

@Piccs,
Whether you consider the FFP all piss and wind Mate, It has already had a major effect on City.
It caused our owners to change their whole investment strategy. Considering the mega millions already invested, our owners are certainly taking it seriously.
As I have posted, I think City will be not far short of compliance and with the mitigation of financial improvement and our commitment to youth, I don't see much chance of us being banned. However, to actually reach that financial position, the existence of the FFPR caused us to curtail our spending and player investment.

Has it really changed City's plan? They always said that they would have to spend big to break through to the top. Not forgetting speculation we were prepared to spunk zillions on Christine.
i also think we will comply, there are enough grey areas in the wording of FFP for us to meet the criteria, such as 'moving towards break even'.
Isee our long term plans for City and the community and can not believe that Uefa could really object to our direction.
How the fuck will PSG comply when French football attracts much less tv cash and PSG's crowds are at 43,000,(and that is a big improvement on recent years). they seriously don't seem to give a toss

I don't think we've curtailed our spending at all, we've instead cleverly given the impression that we are trying to curtail our spending whilst carrying on spending.

Our so called 'reckless' spending only happened for a short time, to get us on the map.

We only paid stupid money for players when it was the only way to sign them. As soon as we gained a rep, we have signed players for what they are worth to us rather than what their clubs think they can rip us off for.

If a big player we desire becomes available at the price we think he's worth, we will sign him. But only at our value.

If we think back to the Kaka deal, we didn't just chuck money at him even then, we had sponsorship deals etc lined up to pay for it & that's one of the main reasons AC shat out; it was taking too long. They thought we were just going to pay huge money but we weren't; we were trying to negotiate with Kaka but he just wanted loads of cash.

[ronk]

When Mancini came in, we initially slowed our spending. We picked up Vieira on a free and Johnson cheap. We also started offloading players, e.g. Robinho.

We went mad at the time of the takeover, because we didn't have time. Some silly things happened like the "messy/Messi" thing.

A lot of the overpaying can be traced to Hughes though. Purchases like Santa-Cruz had no apparent strategy. We were in a rush at some points, but it was still careless. I'm not so sure that we were deliberately overspending as opposed to just being thick, especially when it came to wages.

Mancini hasn't tended to go through the same frenetic periods of signings with the exception of the end of this window.

FFP is loose enough that we'll be able to be competitive and comply, but it will change the market.

[Ted Hughes]

When Mancini came in, we initially slowed our spending. We picked up Vieira on a free and Johnson cheap. We also started offloading players, e.g. Robinho.

We went mad at the time of the takeover, because we didn't have time. Some silly things happened like the "messy/Messi" thing.

A lot of the overpaying can be traced to Hughes though. Purchases like Santa-Cruz had no apparent strategy. We were in a rush at some points, but it was still careless. I'm not so sure that we were deliberately overspending as opposed to just being thick, especially when it came to wages.

Mancini hasn't tended to go through the same frenetic periods of signings with the exception of the end of this window.

FFP is loose enough that we'll be able to be competitive and comply, but it will change the market.

I think the initial policy was just to spend what it takes to be competitive. If that meant wasting some money, the owner didn't care so long as we got to top 6 quickly. Then it became about buying top quality. But the fact that the backbone of a cup & title winning side was built in that period means that it was an absolute success imo.

But the underlying theme from day one, has been the academy. That was the first thing Khaldoon did & it's still the long term priority.

So far, the plan through each phase has worked better than anyone could have dreamed & the tantalising rumours of what is to happen in & around the ground promise more of the same both for City & Manchester.

[john68]

I think you are bang on Ted,. The owners made several statements of intent and outlined the long term plan publicly at the time. Amid all the more sensational stuff that has happened, much of it seems to have been forgotten by the fans and plainly ignored by the media.

It was always the plan to create a self sufficient club or as near as possible. The Academy/Youth project was always the vehicle for that end, to produce our own world class players and buy in only where necessary. That plan has never changed.

The big buying and wages were a necessary and temporary thing, to attract the better class of player and to lift us from mediocrity to CL qualification. CL qualification was crucial and ultimately cost Hughes his job. CL qualification meant that City had access to the big income streams and global publicity to underpin a global profile.

The whole thing is not dissimilar to Chelsea. They too have invested heavily on their youth but that seems to go unnoticed too. It makes me smile when Taggart suggests they have seen off the challenge of Chelsea and no doubt he will boast the same about us if they finish higher. The rags know full well that City and Chelsea are only still at the beginning of the projects. Chelsea a little further on and neither of us have gone anywhere yet.

It's gonna be fun and the rags, Arsenal, Liverpool and even the likes of Bayern, Real and Barca know that we are chasing their tales with a long term plan in our back pocket that could and should blow them away....and the means to fund it.

[Ted Hughes]

I think you are bang on Ted,. The owners made several statements of intent and outlined the long term plan publicly at the time. Amid all the more sensational stuff that has happened, much of it seems to have been forgotten by the fans and plainly ignored by the media.

It was always the plan to create a self sufficient club or as near as possible. The Academy/Youth project was always the vehicle for that end, to produce our own world class players and buy in only where necessary. That plan has never changed.

The big buying and wages were a necessary and temporary thing, to attract the better class of player and to lift us from mediocrity to CL qualification. CL qualification was crucial and ultimately cost Hughes his job. CL qualification meant that City had access to the big income streams and global publicity to underpin a global profile.

The whole thing is not dissimilar to Chelsea. They too have invested heavily on their youth but that seems to go unnoticed too. It makes me smile when Taggart suggests they have seen off the challenge of Chelsea and no doubt he will boast the same about us if they finish higher. The rags know full well that City and Chelsea are only still at the beginning of the projects. Chelsea a little further on and neither of us have gone anywhere yet.

It's gonna be fun and the rags, Arsenal, Liverpool and even the likes of Bayern, Real and Barca know that we are chasing their tales with a long term plan in our back pocket that could and should blow them away....and the means to fund it.

That's why they are trying to fuck us up short term.

They want to stop us matching their earning potential so they can sign all the best players & push fees & wages to a level we're not allowed to pay, thus handicapping us from signing the best & then they can cherry pick our best kids, like they have been doing with many clubs for years.

If they can cripple us short term, they can get ahead of us for decades. Our bosses won't allow it to happen though, not a chance in hell.

[john68]

Ted,
Whatever some think; that the FFPR (Europe) is nonsense, our owners have decided on compliance. Our 1st hurdle is to ensure that we go most of the way to balancing our books. I know the Deloitte list comes out in February 2013 but I don't know when City are due to publish our latest set. They will be an interesting guide. We have 3 years to eradicate the best part of a £146M loss. Various bloggers have shown it is possible but only if the best financial scenarios ensue.

To help our cause, we have a number of mitigating circumstances that could and should see us evade the ultimate sanction of being banned. A warning, a suspended sentence, even a short term transfer embargo, which I think we could deal with and ride through.

The proposed domestic FFPR are as yet an unknown but quite obviously, the rags see that as a fall back position to slow us down. The one thing that none of this can affect is our youth policy, which by the time any domestic sanctions could come into effect, should be (hopefully) feeding the 1st team.

[Beefymcfc]

Good posts fella's. The Rags et al want back to the good old days of out-pricing everyone and stealing all the new talent from under their nose.

I do hope we tie them up in knots for the long-term, not allowing their plans to steal the league ...... again.

[feedthegreek]

last caller on, the prem fair play idea sounds like a blue.55.31 listen to what alan green says right at the end, and this is what were up against.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01mk11c