European Super League - A Reality? (Poll Added)

[Rag_hater]

So I agree - they will not let any revenue stream disappear - they will maximise them all, but that would likely mean:

Super League Revenue stream - keep it closed/guaranteed and max the revenue - play best team 'cos its the most important (lucrative).

What it means to CITY? CITY likely not taking part

CL Revenue stream - max it as well - so go as far as possible - use a strong team but not at the risk of the ESL

What it means to CITY? - We will get to play but it will be the peak of our ambitions - devalued by there being an ESL that we can not qualify for and there will be 20 teams in the CL (ESL members) that are playing reduced strength teams - bit like Europa League now

PL Revenue stream - max it as well - finish as high as possible but use it as a chance to play the squad players (which will likely be better than other (non ESL) teams because they cannot attract the top players anymore)

What it means to CITY? We have a chance of winning our domestic league but the competition is forever devalued because 4 clubs are playing teams well short of full strength. Also we are increasingly getting weaker as we cannot attract players. Before the English PL came about Scottish football was stronger and some teams able to attract top players - look at it now. Is that the PL fate after years of TV money reducing? Probably ends up as back to the old days of the 'Sky top 4' as they have the money to afford the best players

FA and League cups - well more of the same - just worse

Don't think a newly formed ESL will ever have the prestige the CL has and has developed or the money.
The CL has a massive headstart on any comp that may be set up to rival it.
Why do people assume the Cl will become the 2nd comp behind an ESL.

[Nigels Tackle]

imho....

power is (in some areas has already) shifting to the clubs
the qatar world cup kills international football
the death of international football frees 'summers' / midweeks up for international club comps...

no more fibs....

[Wonderwall]

So I agree - they will not let any revenue stream disappear - they will maximise them all, but that would likely mean:

Super League Revenue stream - keep it closed/guaranteed and max the revenue - play best team 'cos its the most important (lucrative).

What it means to CITY? CITY likely not taking part

CL Revenue stream - max it as well - so go as far as possible - use a strong team but not at the risk of the ESL

What it means to CITY? - We will get to play but it will be the peak of our ambitions - devalued by there being an ESL that we can not qualify for and there will be 20 teams in the CL (ESL members) that are playing reduced strength teams - bit like Europa League now

PL Revenue stream - max it as well - finish as high as possible but use it as a chance to play the squad players (which will likely be better than other (non ESL) teams because they cannot attract the top players anymore)

What it means to CITY? We have a chance of winning our domestic league but the competition is forever devalued because 4 clubs are playing teams well short of full strength. Also we are increasingly getting weaker as we cannot attract players. Before the English PL came about Scottish football was stronger and some teams able to attract top players - look at it now. Is that the PL fate after years of TV money reducing? Probably ends up as back to the old days of the 'Sky top 4' as they have the money to afford the best players

FA and League cups - well more of the same - just worse

Don't think a newly formed ESL will ever have the prestige the CL has and has developed or the money.
The CL has a massive headstart on any comp that may be set up to rival it.
Why do people assume the Cl will become the 2nd comp behind an ESL.

I think its the Presumption that the ESL will have the top or most attractive 20 teams in Europe competing in a league format so every week will be a top drawer game.

[Rag_hater]

So I agree - they will not let any revenue stream disappear - they will maximise them all, but that would likely mean:

Super League Revenue stream - keep it closed/guaranteed and max the revenue - play best team 'cos its the most important (lucrative).

What it means to CITY? CITY likely not taking part

CL Revenue stream - max it as well - so go as far as possible - use a strong team but not at the risk of the ESL

What it means to CITY? - We will get to play but it will be the peak of our ambitions - devalued by there being an ESL that we can not qualify for and there will be 20 teams in the CL (ESL members) that are playing reduced strength teams - bit like Europa League now

PL Revenue stream - max it as well - finish as high as possible but use it as a chance to play the squad players (which will likely be better than other (non ESL) teams because they cannot attract the top players anymore)

What it means to CITY? We have a chance of winning our domestic league but the competition is forever devalued because 4 clubs are playing teams well short of full strength. Also we are increasingly getting weaker as we cannot attract players. Before the English PL came about Scottish football was stronger and some teams able to attract top players - look at it now. Is that the PL fate after years of TV money reducing? Probably ends up as back to the old days of the 'Sky top 4' as they have the money to afford the best players

FA and League cups - well more of the same - just worse

Don't think a newly formed ESL will ever have the prestige the CL has and has developed or the money.
The CL has a massive headstart on any comp that may be set up to rival it.
Why do people assume the Cl will become the 2nd comp behind an ESL.

I think its the Presumption that the ESL will have the top or most attractive 20 teams in Europe competing in a league format so every week will be a top drawer game.

Basically what's happening in CL at moment.

[Wonderwall]

So I agree - they will not let any revenue stream disappear - they will maximise them all, but that would likely mean:

Super League Revenue stream - keep it closed/guaranteed and max the revenue - play best team 'cos its the most important (lucrative).

What it means to CITY? CITY likely not taking part

CL Revenue stream - max it as well - so go as far as possible - use a strong team but not at the risk of the ESL

What it means to CITY? - We will get to play but it will be the peak of our ambitions - devalued by there being an ESL that we can not qualify for and there will be 20 teams in the CL (ESL members) that are playing reduced strength teams - bit like Europa League now

PL Revenue stream - max it as well - finish as high as possible but use it as a chance to play the squad players (which will likely be better than other (non ESL) teams because they cannot attract the top players anymore)

What it means to CITY? We have a chance of winning our domestic league but the competition is forever devalued because 4 clubs are playing teams well short of full strength. Also we are increasingly getting weaker as we cannot attract players. Before the English PL came about Scottish football was stronger and some teams able to attract top players - look at it now. Is that the PL fate after years of TV money reducing? Probably ends up as back to the old days of the 'Sky top 4' as they have the money to afford the best players

FA and League cups - well more of the same - just worse

Don't think a newly formed ESL will ever have the prestige the CL has and has developed or the money.
The CL has a massive headstart on any comp that may be set up to rival it.
Why do people assume the Cl will become the 2nd comp behind an ESL.

I think its the Presumption that the ESL will have the top or most attractive 20 teams in Europe competing in a league format so every week will be a top drawer game.

Basically what's happening in CL at moment.

CL is not a 38 game format, when you go into the CL its a pot luck draw to see if you will face Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Milan etc...with the ESL its a guaranteed weekly blockbuster and you would play a top team every week, there are FC Cluj's or PLZENs in this league.
The problem the TV people would have is showing them all. They would have to have a way of selecting which game you wanted as per Skys red button now.

[mcfc1632]

So I agree - they will not let any revenue stream disappear - they will maximise them all, but that would likely mean:

Super League Revenue stream - keep it closed/guaranteed and max the revenue - play best team 'cos its the most important (lucrative).

What it means to CITY? CITY likely not taking part

CL Revenue stream - max it as well - so go as far as possible - use a strong team but not at the risk of the ESL

What it means to CITY? - We will get to play but it will be the peak of our ambitions - devalued by there being an ESL that we can not qualify for and there will be 20 teams in the CL (ESL members) that are playing reduced strength teams - bit like Europa League now

PL Revenue stream - max it as well - finish as high as possible but use it as a chance to play the squad players (which will likely be better than other (non ESL) teams because they cannot attract the top players anymore)

What it means to CITY? We have a chance of winning our domestic league but the competition is forever devalued because 4 clubs are playing teams well short of full strength. Also we are increasingly getting weaker as we cannot attract players. Before the English PL came about Scottish football was stronger and some teams able to attract top players - look at it now. Is that the PL fate after years of TV money reducing? Probably ends up as back to the old days of the 'Sky top 4' as they have the money to afford the best players

FA and League cups - well more of the same - just worse

Don't think a newly formed ESL will ever have the prestige the CL has and has developed or the money.
The CL has a massive headstart on any comp that may be set up to rival it.
Why do people assume the Cl will become the 2nd comp behind an ESL.

IMO - that is not even in question and I really think that you are missing the main drivers for the changes - this is not the ECA clubs doing something separate to UeFA - UeFA will set this up just as the ECA clubs request (demand).

We saw this with the CL set up and the scandalous changes that saw the parachute into what is now the Europa Leagues - UTTERLY DESTROYING what had been a long-standing and prestigious competition for many years - why because the ECA in their previous guise demanded a further level of guaranteed revenue.

UeFA have no power or position beyond what the ECA let them have - they are just the administration function.

How could the CL have a higher position than the new ESL??? The 'Elite clubs will be committed to that and it will attract the highest sponsorship and TV rights - and if UeFA do not fall in line then a simple rumour that the ESL clubs will not participate in the CL will soon make them come to heel - but it will not be necessary. Without the 'Elite clubs' UeFA's CL has no prestige - therefore reduced value as a product - less TV rights - less sponsorship etc.

It is not even a subject worth debating (again IMO) because UeFA will always do whatever necessary to protect the 'image' that they hold power and more importantly their gravy train.

What about another - perhaps not impossible scenario???

The ESL is established with a number 'seeded teams' - lets say the 12 - 16 that are most dominant in the ECA, part of the old guard that have well established global fan bases. These are guaranteed entry as a standing right with the remaining 8 - 12 places going to teams that invited that year based on either lets say winning their domestic league or CL position the previous season. There could be a round of group matches with the winners qualifying to join the 'elite' teams in the next round of group matches. Perhaps the losers could drop into the newly combined CL and Europa League? - sounds like there may be precedent. Meanwhile previously the 'Elite teams will have been playing some format amongst themselves -perhaps to see who plays the incoming teams - and earning mega bucks.

This way they could guarantee some members their place and be seen to allow entry / competition.

I am just being deliberately fanciful here - but (IMO) less fanciful than thinking that the UeFA and its CL could 'trump' the ECA (and whatever competition it decides on)

[C & C]

If this happens they'll agree to split the TV revenues evenly or pretty close to it. Imagine combining 80% of the TV revenues for each of the top leagues and now only splitting it between 20 teams. It's a massive amount of money. Every team will be able to pay players top money. The players will want as much money as they can get and the prestige of playing in the competition. So almost all the top players will gravitate towards those teams.

They will schedule their games on the weekends going against the domestic leagues. The TV networks will then have to choose what league to show. In some places will it be the domestic league...absolutely. But worldwide, it's going to be the superleague. The result of this means TV networks will use their budget on the superleague and less on domestic leagues. So domestic leagues will have lower overall TV contracts, thus having less money to spend on players. These teams won't have to try to double dip and be in the superleague and the domestic. Eventually, they're going to have almost all the money anyway.

If they're smart, they'll set a cap on salaries for each team. This is one where I have a hard time believing they will do. If they do though, each team will be able to compete against every other team. Some teams will have down years, possibly a down decade, but they'll create parity. And if they can create parity, viewers will flock to it.

It'll be a closed system and they'll take all the revenues.

[Rag_hater]

If this happens they'll agree to split the TV revenues evenly or pretty close to it. Imagine combining 80% of the TV revenues for each of the top leagues and now only splitting it between 20 teams. It's a massive amount of money. Every team will be able to pay players top money. The players will want as much money as they can get and the prestige of playing in the competition. So almost all the top players will gravitate towards those teams.

They will schedule their games on the weekends going against the domestic leagues. The TV networks will then have to choose what league to show. In some places will it be the domestic league...absolutely. But worldwide, it's going to be the superleague. The result of this means TV networks will use their budget on the superleague and less on domestic leagues. So domestic leagues will have lower overall TV contracts, thus having less money to spend on players. These teams won't have to try to double dip and be in the superleague and the domestic. Eventually, they're going to have almost all the money anyway.

If they're smart, they'll set a cap on salaries for each team. This is one where I have a hard time believing they will do. If they do though, each team will be able to compete against every other team. Some teams will have down years, possibly a down decade, but they'll create parity. And if they can create parity, viewers will flock to it.

It'll be a closed system and they'll take all the revenues.

Your'e paranoia and fear of the old clubs is an attitude that is stuck in a time warp.Your so deluded if you think that some cunts who are scratching around for every penny they can get can affect us.Seems you have got this image of us still being little ol city.Well you better wake up fella cos we are in a different league now.The one above them elite cunts

[C & C]

If this happens they'll agree to split the TV revenues evenly or pretty close to it. Imagine combining 80% of the TV revenues for each of the top leagues and now only splitting it between 20 teams. It's a massive amount of money. Every team will be able to pay players top money. The players will want as much money as they can get and the prestige of playing in the competition. So almost all the top players will gravitate towards those teams.

They will schedule their games on the weekends going against the domestic leagues. The TV networks will then have to choose what league to show. In some places will it be the domestic league...absolutely. But worldwide, it's going to be the superleague. The result of this means TV networks will use their budget on the superleague and less on domestic leagues. So domestic leagues will have lower overall TV contracts, thus having less money to spend on players. These teams won't have to try to double dip and be in the superleague and the domestic. Eventually, they're going to have almost all the money anyway.

If they're smart, they'll set a cap on salaries for each team. This is one where I have a hard time believing they will do. If they do though, each team will be able to compete against every other team. Some teams will have down years, possibly a down decade, but they'll create parity. And if they can create parity, viewers will flock to it.

It'll be a closed system and they'll take all the revenues.

Your'e paranoia and fear of the old clubs is an attitude that is stuck in a time warp.Your so deluded if you think that some cunts who are scratching around for every penny they can get can affect us.Seems you have got this image of us still being little ol city.Well you better wake up fella cos we are in a different league now.The one above them elite cunts

Thank you! I didn't realize I was scared or even paranoid. I thought I rationally showed how I expected the path to go should it be started. I feel much better now that I know I wasn't being rational and that fear is my main driving factor.

[Rag_hater]

It's no wonder the old G14 got away with so much as so many of our fans and the huge minority seem to be willing to take it the arse.

[Herb]

Sorry for going off at a bit of a tangent but I think the worst fear thrown into this topic (an exclusive league formed that we can't get into) won't be a runner because the European Court is empowered to and particularly keen on preventing monopolies - that would be a monopoly so they'd need to water it down somewhat - perhaps give it a chumps league points system?

[Beefymcfc]

You're just a sad fuck. From that statement I'm gathering that you'll never quite understand.

Cheers.

I'll never quite understand that your romance with the hard fought days and relegation etc is more legit than a child growing up now thinking of city as a world footballing power?

I don't buy your argument buy maybe elaborate more if I'm missing the point.

Onwards and upwards. Let the kids bask in the glory and don't act like some old know it all holier than thou fart because you remember the bad times. Good for you. You'll always have those. Doesnt mean the next generation has a less authentic experience.

I wasn't haven't a pop on the grounds of football, just the point of you telling him to kill himself and the kids.

[mcfc1632]

Herb - not a tangent at all - but as someone that has spent many years working on a daily basis with EU laws - admittedly specifically with regard to procurement law - but I have a number of good friends that are legal experts in general competition law - there is no amount of ways to circumvent this.

But anyway this has been done to death on the FFPR subject - where they even have an ex-Luxemburg PM as a decision maker on what is 'allowable' etc. There is no great comfort to be had in an assumption that "..this will be against competition law..." etc.

Where such EU regulations are even relevant - which is limited - UeFA and ECA have been in discussion and preparation for years to ensure that when they introduce FFPR it will have been tested against case law - the same will happen here.

The only crumb of comfort I take is that there is likely a need for consultation which may delay the introduction and allow us to get inside the tent.

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Separately, RH - I am not sure if you are:

a) a mad keen CITY fan with the biggest bestest blue tinted glasses in the world and can see nothing beyond City - which I admire,

b) a clever debater - someone that just always wanting to pop in with a contrary view to stir the pot - which is admirable only as long as it adds to threads,

c) someone that just like's to pick an opposing position to argue in the face of all logic and not caring if it destroys healthy debate / discussion between CITY fans - not admirable

d) one of those fans from other teams that just likes to lurk and get a kick out of causing stupid debates and distracting threads - which is just fucking sad

e) just thick as pig shit - which is not your fault as it would just be a natural condition

But when you post in reply to a very reasonable post:

"Your'e paranoia and fear of the old clubs is an attitude that is stuck in a time warp.Your so deluded if you think that some cunts who are scratching around for every penny they can get can affect us.Seems you have got this image of us still being little ol city.Well you better wake up fella cos we are in a different league now.The one above them elite cunts"

Whilst I would wish to believe a) - I do wonder......

The key issue that will determine this direction of the ECA and a resultant ESL is not CITY centric - we are not even on the fucking radar in their thinking and they are not seeing us as Billy big bollocks that holds all the marbles.

We probably appear only on a risk register reviewed by the ECA board, as one of a number of threats to be mitigated in the coming years.

So all that statement you made probably marks you out to be in one of the above categories - but certainly a million miles away from adding to this thread - of course only IMHO

[Rag_hater]

Herb - not a tangent at all - but as someone that has spent many years working on a daily basis with EU laws - admittedly specifically with regard to procurement law - but I have a number of good friends that are legal experts in general competition law - there is no amount of ways to circumvent this.

But anyway this has been done to death on the FFPR subject - where they even have an ex-Luxemburg PM as a decision maker on what is 'allowable' etc. There is no great comfort to be had in an assumption that "..this will be against competition law..." etc.

Where such EU regulations are even relevant - which is limited - UeFA and ECA have been in discussion and preparation for years to ensure that when they introduce FFPR it will have been tested against case law - the same will happen here.

The only crumb of comfort I take is that there is likely a need for consultation which may delay the introduction and allow us to get inside the tent.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Separately, RH - I am not sure if you are:

a) a mad keen CITY fan with the biggest bestest blue tinted glasses in the world and can see nothing beyond City - which I admire,

b) a clever debater - someone that just always wanting to pop in with a contrary view to stir the pot - which is admirable only as long as it adds to threads,

c) someone that just like's to pick an opposing position to argue in the face of all logic and not caring if it destroys healthy debate / discussion between CITY fans - not admirable

d) one of those fans from other teams that just likes to lurk and get a kick out of causing stupid debates and distracting threads - which is just fucking sad

e) just thick as pig shit - which is not your fault as it would just be a natural condition

But when you post in reply to a very reasonable post:

"Your'e paranoia and fear of the old clubs is an attitude that is stuck in a time warp.Your so deluded if you think that some cunts who are scratching around for every penny they can get can affect us.Seems you have got this image of us still being little ol city.Well you better wake up fella cos we are in a different league now.The one above them elite cunts"

Whilst I would wish to believe a) - I do wonder......

The key issue that will determine this direction of the ECA and a resultant ESL is not CITY centric - we are not even on the fucking radar in their thinking and they are not seeing us as Billy big bollocks that holds all the marbles.

We probably appear only on a risk register reviewed by the ECA board, as one of a number of threats to be mitigated in the coming years.

So all that statement you made probably marks you out to be in one of the above categories - but certainly a million miles away from adding to this thread - of course only IMHO

Instead of thinking that we have no hope I generally put up a fight and find a way to overcome what obstacles have been put in my way. The thought of meekly and timidly giving up like some of you seem to have gotten used too does not enter into what I thinking.
Our voice is just as loud with UEFA as those others you have got used to bowing to.
Instead of thinking what the fuckers got away with in the past try putting your energies into what we can do.
I have a feeling that its hard for some of you to grasp that we are Billy big bollocks. The sooner some of you realise that we have 15 billion(BILLION) you might get how futile these so called elite fuckers are

[Im_Spartacus]

Instead of thinking that we have no hope I generally put up a fight and find a way to overcome what obstacles have been put in my way. The thought of meekly and timidly giving up like some of you seem to have gotten used too does not enter into what I thinking. Our voice is just as loud with UEFA as those others you have got used to bowing to. Instead of thinking what the fuckers got away with in the past try putting your energies into what we can do. I have a feeling that its hard for some of you to grasp that we are Billy big bollocks. The sooner some of you realise that we have 15 billion(BILLION) you might get how futile these so called elite fuckers are

I dont think anyone is giving up on anything.

We are just saying that if the battle lines were drawn tomorrow, we would most likely not be in the group. We aint big box offfice, and the only way we will evwr become big box office is if we have sustained success, which will occur (in the short term) without financial sustainability, hence a threat to united and other clubs of that ilk who want to reduce the costs of ownership but remain successful.

I certainly am not prepared to take it up the shitter from this lot, but mcfc1632 is bang on the money with his assertion that if these clubs decide to do something, there is fuck all we as fans can do, and as a club, we would be a target/threatt o be neutralized

[Herb]

[quote="mcfc1632"]Herb - not a tangent at all - but as someone that has spent many years working on a daily basis with EU laws - admittedly specifically with regard to procurement law - but I have a number of good friends that are legal experts in general competition law - there is no amount of ways to circumvent this.

But anyway this has been done to death on the FFPR subject - where they even have an ex-Luxemburg PM as a decision maker on what is 'allowable' etc. There is no great comfort to be had in an assumption that "..this will be against competition law..." etc.

Where such EU regulations are even relevant - which is limited - UeFA and ECA have been in discussion and preparation for years to ensure that when they introduce FFPR it will have been tested against case law - the same will happen here.

The only crumb of comfort I take is that there is likely a need for consultation which may delay the introduction and allow us to get inside the tent.

mcfc1632, I'm not knocking your opinion, as I'm sure that it's well informed and honestly delivered, but I've dealt with a fair bit of procurement down the years in commercial roles for FTSE100 companies and the view I've gleaned from the top end legal panels is that FFPR won't stand up to scrutiny under competition law . . but that battle hasn't been fought yet so it remains as opinion.
I'm also certain in my own mind that European competition laws wouldn't allow a closed shop - I've covered assessments of due diligence reports re takeovers and mergers that have been scuppered simply because the resultant company would control more than 20% of a particular product across the EU and that wasn't considered viable due to competition laws. It's this that makes me so sure - because if they made a special case for a group of businesses selling football and it survived challenge then that case law would open the door for 1 single dairy group to control all EU semi-skimmed milk production or 1 single company to control all high speed internet access or 1 single long-haul airline for the EU etc.
I'm not saying that I'm automatically right or anything - more the case that I have a opinion that I feel is well founded but that I accept that there are a number of different opinions and it's not even worth putting a bet on it because we won't see proof either way for quite some time.
Interesting stuff though because if they did get away with it then the case law introduced would surely mean that all competition would be quickly eradicated right across Europe from every area of banking and manufacturing and health and education etc. in no time at all.

[Rag_hater]

Instead of thinking that we have no hope I generally put up a fight and find a way to overcome what obstacles have been put in my way. The thought of meekly and timidly giving up like some of you seem to have gotten used too does not enter into what I thinking. Our voice is just as loud with UEFA as those others you have got used to bowing to. Instead of thinking what the fuckers got away with in the past try putting your energies into what we can do. I have a feeling that its hard for some of you to grasp that we are Billy big bollocks. The sooner some of you realise that we have 15 billion(BILLION) you might get how futile these so called elite fuckers are

I dont think anyone is giving up on anything.

We are just saying that if the battle lines were drawn tomorrow, we would most likely not be in the group. We aint big box offfice, and the only way we will evwr become big box office is if we have sustained success, which will occur (in the short term) without financial sustainability, hence a threat to united and other clubs of that ilk who want to reduce the costs of ownership but remain successful.

I certainly am not prepared to take it up the shitter from this lot, but mcfc1632 is bang on the money with his assertion that if these clubs decide to do something, there is fuck all we as fans can do, and as a club, we would be a target/threatt o be neutralized

I think the way our sponsership is growing shows that we are box office , look at our figures for the derby(next to classico it is next biggest) and calculate how box office that is and if the battle lines were drawn tomorrow we would get in and as for the short term success I think being 2nd last year ,winning the FA cup and that Aguerooooooo thing suggests to me that short term we are doing quite well.As for being able to do fuckall I think if nobody watched this ESL then the issue of being able to do nowt would not be an issue.

[Im_Spartacus]

I think the way our sponsership is growing shows that we are box office , look at our figures for the derby(next to classico it is next biggest) and calculate how box office that is and if the battle lines were drawn tomorrow we would get in and as for the short term success I think being 2nd last year ,winning the FA cup and that Aguerooooooo thing suggests to me that short term we are doing quite well.As for being able to do fuckall I think if nobody watched this ESL then the issue of being able to do nowt would not be an issue.

I started up a football coaching program the other week in Saudi Arabia. There were 75 kids showed up, and as part of the registration I asked the parents to tell me the kids favourite team.

Out of 75, how many do you reckon chose city? 1 - and he was british. Of the rest, Real Madrid, Barcelona were far and away the biggest choice, with United a distant third and Chelsea 4th.

That tells me quite clearly that whilst we are a successful team now in the premier league, that has not been the case for sufficient time for us to work our way into the consciousness of the casual football fan who has no loyalty to a particular league, and just wants a superstar or two to idolise. At the moment, these floating supporters may watch the big derbys when they come around, but how many do you think will tune in for west ham at the weekend? Contrast that to those who will tune into a mundane barca league game just to see messi, iniesta, fabregas etc smash another 5 goals past shit opposition. Add to that, if city play the same time as barca in the champs league, who do the foreigners tune into, city? Not likely.

Our sponsorships have increased on the basis of having exposure to that global market by being in the champions league and particularly the highlights programs, and being one of the top teams in england, but the reality is that the world at large dont give a flying fuck about city and they certainly dont tune in to watch us in the way they do barca, real etc. Thats before you even question the validity of some of our so called sponsorship deals.

To really understand, i think its necessary to actually stop thinking like a football fan on this and start to think like one of the chinese who will simply follow the biggest club with the biggest name players. That aint us, and wont be until we have had maybe a decade of sustained success, and the global superstars which would come with that level of domination.

[Im_Spartacus]

Herb, cant quote you cos yer a fucking spacker and fucked yourlast post up.

But Uefa already have de facto control of 100% of european football continental competition. So whilst i agree with a fair bit of what you say, a super league would be no different from a competition perspective than the situation we already have.

[mcfc1632]

and well I also would not suggest that Herb is 'wrong' because there is a lot of the journey to go yet - the 'competition subject' has been comprehensively covered under the FFPR debate - and whilst we can all have opinions - mine and that of professional EU lawyers I meet up with occasionally is that it will succeed - so long as UeFA are careful in the implementation - which they certainly seem to be doing - they can certainly cite our written commitment on the need for compliance.

I think that this is the main point though - whatever Herb, I or Billy big bollocks thinks - people we should all have a large level of trust in - from the Sheik downwards, have obviously concluded that compliance is required and are acting on that basis - they may be more in the know than us.