Messi

[Cocacolajojo1]

And this is where he beats Ronaldo as a footballer. Messi is just a pure natural gifted footballer whereas Ronaldo is more an athlete. In other words Messi didn't have to work too hard to hone his skills he just has them. Ronaldo on the other hand has had to put in the graft to reach that level.

I agree with you to a certain extent but isn't half the thing with Messi that he has these talents and then combined them with determination and hard work? I bet there are tons of other Messis out there who had the same talent and who were too lazy or thought too much of themselves. A Swedish skier once said something like "People say I'm lucky and alls I know is that the more I train, the luckier I am". I'd say the same thing here with Messi is that the more he trains, the more talented he becomes.

One could also discuss what Christiano Ronaldo's rank in modern football would've been if Messi hadn't been around at the same time. I'm not gonna have it here on this forum though.

[Ted Hughes]

And this is where he beats Ronaldo as a footballer. Messi is just a pure natural gifted footballer whereas Ronaldo is more an athlete. In other words Messi didn't have to work too hard to hone his skills he just has them. Ronaldo on the other hand has had to put in the graft to reach that level.

I agree with you to a certain extent but isn't half the thing with Messi that he has these talents and then combined them with determination and hard work? I bet there are tons of other Messis out there who had the same talent and who were too lazy or thought too much of themselves. A Swedish skier once said something like "People say I'm lucky and alls I know is that the more I train, the luckier I am". I'd say the same thing here with Messi is that the more he trains, the more talented he becomes.

One could also discuss what Christiano Ronaldo's rank in modern football would've been if Messi hadn't been around at the same time. I'm not gonna have it here on this forum though.

Messi must also put in loads of practice. But probably didn't need it to the level Ronaldo did.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

And this is where he beats Ronaldo as a footballer. Messi is just a pure natural gifted footballer whereas Ronaldo is more an athlete. In other words Messi didn't have to work too hard to hone his skills he just has them. Ronaldo on the other hand has had to put in the graft to reach that level.

I agree with you to a certain extent but isn't half the thing with Messi that he has these talents and then combined them with determination and hard work? I bet there are tons of other Messis out there who had the same talent and who were too lazy or thought too much of themselves. A Swedish skier once said something like "People say I'm lucky and alls I know is that the more I train, the luckier I am". I'd say the same thing here with Messi is that the more he trains, the more talented he becomes.

One could also discuss what Christiano Ronaldo's rank in modern football would've been if Messi hadn't been around at the same time. I'm not gonna have it here on this forum though.

Messi must also put in loads of practice. But probably didn't need it to the level Ronaldo did.

Yep, that's what I'm getting at.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Messi must also put in loads of practice. But probably didn't need it to the level Ronaldo did.

I mean yeah, on one level I can understand what you're saying and perhaps also agree. On the other hand I'd also be willing to accept that it's perhaps because he puts in a bigger shift than Christiano Ronaldo in training that has brought him so far. I don't know, but both variants seem plausible. I mean, I understand what you mean and all that, I'm just a bit allergic to the entire "he was born with this and that" sort of thinking, as there has to be a lot of effort to reach this level of skill even though he has these talents. But it's splitting hairs I guess. Sorry, just rambling.

[iwasthere2012]

And this is where he beats Ronaldo as a footballer. Messi is just a pure natural gifted footballer whereas Ronaldo is more an athlete. In other words Messi didn't have to work too hard to hone his skills he just has them. Ronaldo on the other hand has had to put in the graft to reach that level.

I agree with you to a certain extent but isn't half the thing with Messi that he has these talents and then combined them with determination and hard work? I bet there are tons of other Messis out there who had the same talent and who were too lazy or thought too much of themselves. A Swedish skier once said something like "People say I'm lucky and alls I know is that the more I train, the luckier I am". I'd say the same thing here with Messi is that the more he trains, the more talented he becomes.

One could also discuss what Christiano Ronaldo's rank in modern football would've been if Messi hadn't been around at the same time. I'm not gonna have it here on this forum though.

Messi must also put in loads of practice. But probably didn't need it to the level Ronaldo did.

You don't get to the level the two of them are at without focussed single-minded application of talents God gave you. It takes considerable hard work as well as talent. I think with Messi it just seems natural ability. There is no fuss or frills about what he does it's just purely instinctive.
With Ronaldo, you get the impression he has thought himself a lot of tricks particularly in his younger days, to try and stand out. He wouldn't have lasted long though, if that is all he had. He is a super athlete. I understand what Ted is getting at. With Ronaldo you get the impression that he has to constantly work at what comes naturally to Messi. You also get the impression that he sometimes tries too hard to stand out.

[Ted Hughes]

Messi must also put in loads of practice. But probably didn't need it to the level Ronaldo did.

I mean yeah, on one level I can understand what you're saying and perhaps also agree. On the other hand I'd also be willing to accept that it's perhaps because he puts in a bigger shift than Christiano Ronaldo in training that has brought him so far. I don't know, but both variants seem plausible. I mean, I understand what you mean and all that, I'm just a bit allergic to the entire "he was born with this and that" sort of thinking, as there has to be a lot of effort to reach this level of skill even though he has these talents. But it's splitting hairs I guess. Sorry, just rambling.

People who were around Ronaldo say he had an obsession to be the best & was telling people he would become exactly that. Some say he was nowhere near the level as a natural footballer, that they would have ever believed it possible.

[Wonderwall]

Messi must also put in loads of practice. But probably didn't need it to the level Ronaldo did.

I mean yeah, on one level I can understand what you're saying and perhaps also agree. On the other hand I'd also be willing to accept that it's perhaps because he puts in a bigger shift than Christiano Ronaldo in training that has brought him so far. I don't know, but both variants seem plausible. I mean, I understand what you mean and all that, I'm just a bit allergic to the entire "he was born with this and that" sort of thinking, as there has to be a lot of effort to reach this level of skill even though he has these talents. But it's splitting hairs I guess. Sorry, just rambling.

People who were around Ronaldo say he had an obsession to be the best & was telling people he would become exactly that. Some say he was nowhere near the level as a natural footballer, that they would have ever believed it possible.

Messi has vision and sees things that others dont, he is naturally gifted and is like a chess player who is 3 passes ahead of the game and others. He see how he wants the play to unfold and plays a pass and move, to ensure that his vision is executed. Ronaldo has pace, power and skill, but for me its the vision he lacks which is what makes Messi an amazing player to watch and the stand out player in world football.

[Beefymcfc]

Messi is just a phenomenon that comes around in a generation. Fantastic player but now Tranny has overtaken him in the CL it worries me that we're up next. He's got something to prove.

[Wonderwall]

Messi is just a phenomenon that comes around in a generation. Fantastic player but now Tranny has overtaken him in the CL it worries me that we're up next. He's got something to prove.

Pressure. He isnt used to it ;-)

[Beefymcfc]

Messi is just a phenomenon that comes around in a generation. Fantastic player but now Tranny has overtaken him in the CL it worries me that we're up next. He's got something to prove.

Pressure. He isnt used to it ;-)

I feel soooo much better now ;-)

[Cocacolajojo1]

People who were around Ronaldo say he had an obsession to be the best & was telling people he would become exactly that. Some say he was nowhere near the level as a natural footballer, that they would have ever believed it possible.

I think it's quite common that people who in the end made it had doubters or even stood a large risk of failing. A lot of people around Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Henrik Larsson for example, albeit both not at the level of Messi but the best attacking players Sweden has produced in a long while, thought they were never gonna make it either when they were 16-17-18. In the case of Ibrahimovic I know there was another player that people thought more talented and so on. Yet, a lot of people now talk about Ibrahimovic's vision for the game and instincts and so despite if you read his biography, it's the result of hard work and obsession of downloading videos of futsal players (and Ronaldinho if remember correctly) and copying their tricks. I understand what you're saying about Christiano Ronaldo and you know, perhaps he is the Bob Dylan of football players in that he was perhaps not the most talented of all musicians in NY but certainly more driven than most. On the other hand, all these other natural stars are/were obsessed by playing football/making it. Zidane: obsessed.Maradona: obsessed. Mancini (not in the same bracket as the former two but just making another example): Obsessed. Messi: I don't know but I would presume obsessed. What is talent and what is trained is academical IMO, especially as Barcelona works hard to integrate physical training with ball training. Messi's a phenomenal player regardless. Did he train less than Tran to get where he is? I don't know but I doubt it. Does that make him less of a phenomenon? No. He is awesome and one of the best players that ever lived.

[Hazy2]

He was spotted as a child, Clubs like us and every other club in the world are looking for another Messi, they find em ageed 6/7/8, bags of talent best player at the school in games he is amazing, he meets better players, stronger harder, faster, does he stand out as much ? does he have another gear/trick ? Is he a M/F player not a striker, nope, He drifts down the pecking order, no longer the star turn and is soon back with his mates. Messi has sacrificed a childhood, done things most parents would refuse to be done to the child like hormone injections !, moved to another world,he has proved one coach/scout a long time ago at Newall Old Boys, he will be what he is getting past his size alone is amazing. Ronaldo is as prolific through an amazing desire to be the best, he has the body of supreme athlete and maxis every day, looks the best and he is not far off I remember watching him in the 4-1 Derby win and he had Dunnie on toast like Henry did at Maine Road, he is a creation of his own making, a goal machine. When they retire we will imho never see the likes again. No coach will have the pressure these two put on a manager/club to play them to accept them and sit back and say I will manage the other player this way and they can do pretty much what they want. Messi and Ronaldo are the most powerful players the game has ever seen.

[Ted Hughes]

This guy is still the best attacking player I've seen, I don't care what stats say:

Watch on youtube.com

I used to watch every game I possibly could involving Barca when he was at his peak, & if he wasn't playing, I'd switch them off. Funilly enough, I always switch them off now if Messi isn't playing. But I find Messi and Ronaldo actually dull by comparison. If Messi & Ronaldo are Pavarotti & Placido Domingo, Ronaldinho was Jimi Hendrix.

[iwasthere2012]

This guy is still the best attacking player I've seen, I don't care what stats say:

Watch on youtube.com

I used to watch every game I possibly could involving Barca when he was at his peak, & if he wasn't playing, I'd switch them off. Funilly enough, I always switch them off now if Messi isn't playing. But I find Messi and Ronaldo actually dull by comparison. If Messi & Ronaldo are Pavarotti & Placido Domingo, Ronaldinho was Jimi Hendrix.

That guy really was phenomenal. He had it all, speed, strength, unbelievable skill and technique, and that vision that some have mentioned on here.
I remember seeing a video of him in a 5-a-side tournament in Brasil when he was only around 12 or 13. He was like an adult playing against kids, he was so far ahead of them. Even then his skill was unbelievable, some of the things he was trying.

[Hazy2]

This guy is still the best attacking player I've seen, I don't care what stats say:

Watch on youtube.com

I used to watch every game I possibly could involving Barca when he was at his peak, & if he wasn't playing, I'd switch them off. Funilly enough, I always switch them off now if Messi isn't playing. But I find Messi and Ronaldo actually dull by comparison. If Messi & Ronaldo are Pavarotti & Placido Domingo, Ronaldinho was Jimi Hendrix.

Loved at PSG and Barca ruined his time at the top which comes back to the player abusing his talent, the other two are at it for far longer. Both also work harder for the team, Ronny drifted away to Milan very sad, as an amazing talent, His PSG day's were Special.

[twosips]

Loved Ronaldinho but i still think Messi is the better player...however Messi would quite clearly not be what he is if it wasn't for Ronaldinho. Even in that video you can see where Messi picked up so many aspects of his game.

Video also reminded me of one of the biggest wastes (the word 'waste' is debatable given everything he achieved) of talent - fat Ronaldo. If it wasn't for injuries i think he'd have gone down as the greatest. Absolute freak at his best. Current Ronaldo's physique and Messi's dribbling.

[Slim]

Watch on youtube.com

Don't have to go far into this one, number 26 at 1:03, saw him do this a couple of times and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

[iwasthere2012]

Watch on youtube.com

Don't have to go far into this one, number 26 at 1:03, saw him do this a couple of times and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

I think what I loved most about him was the way he played, you could see that it was for the absolute joy of it. His skill was sublime. He was so comfortable using any part of his body to control the ball. He had tricks but it came so naturally to him that he would improvise in any situation.
It all ended too soon as far as I'm concerned. It's like he lost the joy and without it the will to play.

[DoomMerchant]

Doesn't he actually play in Mexico now? I swear i saw him on TV in a Mexican match in the recent past. I might be fucking high, tho...and if so, i deserve some type of substance to actually create the effect.

I'm bored the fuck to death of Messi and Ronaldo talk this week.

Everyone can fuck off. Please.

cheers

[iwasthere2012]

Doesn't he actually play in Mexico now? I swear i saw him on TV in a Mexican match in the recent past. I might be fucking high, tho...and if so, i deserve some type of substance to actually create the effect.

I'm bored the fuck to death of Messi and Ronaldo talk this week.

Everyone can fuck off. Please.

cheers

I think most people got fed up 3 pages ago. That's why the thread morphed into School Prefects/Christian Bros./Nuns & Other Phips/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho.
A natural progression as you can see.