Tax Thread (please move to OT)

[zuricity]

^^^^^^

Re VAT ,

When you go to the states you cannot get your sales tax back.

the VAT within the EU the same , but Switzerland has an agreement with the EU about vat . The idea is you can claim the difference back . IIRC this doesn't apply to Far east countries .

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works. I think that's the (general) system for B2B transactions, but not for tourists, as that system would be impossible to regulate: for example, what VAT would a Spanish citizen who's a resident of Germany, buying things from Switzerland but then flying on to Algeria be eligible to reclaim, and would this differ depending on whether they were showing their Spanish passport or German ID card?

well , swiss people shop in Germany , France and italy for their daily requirements . Food etc , they take the list to the german zoll and get a stamp , then to the swiss and declare what they have bought to get a stamp and any difference in VAT . nothing new here.

You have a misunderstanding of how it works . If i buy goods in Hamburg i have to take it to the Zoll at Hamburg airport , get it stamped and then send the receipts to the company i bought the product from.

it doesn't work any other way

And please don't question it , i've done this a few times in Hamburg and other places , getting a stamp when i leave the country , otherwise it will not be paid out. Some companies at airports take a commission off the difference in VAT.

in order to get the stamp in an eu country you have to show your non eu passport . then you have to send the receipts to the company you bought from - or , if like me , you were back there next week you could claim it directly from them, but it must be stamped by the Zoll. The purchase receipt shows where you bought the product and btw you have to show the product to the Zollner where you are exiting the eu

[BlueinBosnia]

^^^^^^

Re VAT ,

When you go to the states you cannot get your sales tax back.

the VAT within the EU the same , but Switzerland has an agreement with the EU about vat . The idea is you can claim the difference back . IIRC this doesn't apply to Far east countries .

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works. I think that's the (general) system for B2B transactions, but not for tourists, as that system would be impossible to regulate: for example, what VAT would a Spanish citizen who's a resident of Germany, buying things from Switzerland but then flying on to Algeria be eligible to reclaim, and would this differ depending on whether they were showing their Spanish passport or German ID card?

well , swiss people shop in Germany , France and italy for their daily requirements . Food etc , they take the list to the german zoll and get a stamp , then to the swiss and declare what they have bought to get a stamp and any difference in VAT . nothing new here.

You have a misunderstanding of how it works . If i buy goods in Hamburg i have to take it to the Zoll at Hamburg airport , get it stamped and then send the receipts to the company i bought the product from.

it doesn't work any other way

And please don't question it , i've done this a few times in Hamburg and other places , getting a stamp when i leave the country , otherwise it will not be paid out. Some companies at airports take a commission off the difference in VAT.

in order to get the stamp in an eu country you have to show your non eu passport . then you have to send the receipts to the company you bought from - or , if like me , you were back there next week you could claim it directly from them, but it must be stamped by the Zoll. The purchase receipt shows where you bought the product and btw you have to show the product to the Zollner where you are exiting the eu

That's pretty much the same as when I've done it. You have to show the product and receipt at customs, fill out some forms, get some things scanned, and you get the money refunded in about 3-4 weeks. However, there's never been any 'difference in VAT' calculation; it's always been the amount of VAT, minus expenses/commission (comparable to the 17% out of 20% example I gave above: a 15% commission). (as an aside, like I said in my original post, some countries base this on residency, others on a combination of citizenship and residency: so while a non-EU resident EU citizen is able to claim a VAT rebate from some EU exit points, only non-EU resident non-EU citizens are able to claim it from others; this is one of the many complexities of the EU, whereby national and bloc competences are intermingled, meaning there's no straightforward blanket rule about 'showing a non-EU passport' applicable across the bloc)

What I'm questioning is the idea that Chinese/Indian citizens are not eligible for this - I'm pretty much certain they are, and it's nothing to do with some EU-Swiss bilateral agreement. I'm equally sure there's a whole industry set up for day-trip shopping in Switzerland, whereby you enter, buy your goods, and an agent accompanying the bus tour handles the paperwork for you (and takes a slice of commission). As Switzerland is in Schengen, this would often be somewhat daunting for a Chinese national to do independently, as it's hardly going to be an intuitive process when crossing land borders. Hence the busloads of Chinese people popping in for the day to buy Rolexes, but not staying in Swiss hotels.

[Mase]

McAtee scored again and Doyle got an assist.

[Tokyo Blue]

Superb cross by Tommy. Haaland would love that kind of thing.

[zuricity]

^^^^^^

Re VAT ,

When you go to the states you cannot get your sales tax back.

the VAT within the EU the same , but Switzerland has an agreement with the EU about vat . The idea is you can claim the difference back . IIRC this doesn't apply to Far east countries .

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works. I think that's the (general) system for B2B transactions, but not for tourists, as that system would be impossible to regulate: for example, what VAT would a Spanish citizen who's a resident of Germany, buying things from Switzerland but then flying on to Algeria be eligible to reclaim, and would this differ depending on whether they were showing their Spanish passport or German ID card?

well , swiss people shop in Germany , France and italy for their daily requirements . Food etc , they take the list to the german zoll and get a stamp , then to the swiss and declare what they have bought to get a stamp and any difference in VAT . nothing new here.

You have a misunderstanding of how it works . If i buy goods in Hamburg i have to take it to the Zoll at Hamburg airport , get it stamped and then send the receipts to the company i bought the product from.

it doesn't work any other way

And please don't question it , i've done this a few times in Hamburg and other places , getting a stamp when i leave the country , otherwise it will not be paid out. Some companies at airports take a commission off the difference in VAT.

in order to get the stamp in an eu country you have to show your non eu passport . then you have to send the receipts to the company you bought from - or , if like me , you were back there next week you could claim it directly from them, but it must be stamped by the Zoll. The purchase receipt shows where you bought the product and btw you have to show the product to the Zollner where you are exiting the eu

That's pretty much the same as when I've done it. You have to show the product and receipt at customs, fill out some forms, get some things scanned, and you get the money refunded in about 3-4 weeks. However, there's never been any 'difference in VAT' calculation; it's always been the amount of VAT, minus expenses/commission (comparable to the 17% out of 20% example I gave above: a 15% commission). (as an aside, like I said in my original post, some countries base this on residency, others on a combination of citizenship and residency: so while a non-EU resident EU citizen is able to claim a VAT rebate from some EU exit points, only non-EU resident non-EU citizens are able to claim it from others; this is one of the many complexities of the EU, whereby national and bloc competences are intermingled, meaning there's no straightforward blanket rule about 'showing a non-EU passport' applicable across the bloc)

What I'm questioning is the idea that Chinese/Indian citizens are not eligible for this - I'm pretty much certain they are, and it's nothing to do with some EU-Swiss bilateral agreement. I'm equally sure there's a whole industry set up for day-trip shopping in Switzerland, whereby you enter, buy your goods, and an agent accompanying the bus tour handles the paperwork for you (and takes a slice of commission). As Switzerland is in Schengen, this would often be somewhat daunting for a Chinese national to do independently, as it's hardly going to be an intuitive process when crossing land borders. Hence the busloads of Chinese people popping in for the day to buy Rolexes, but not staying in Swiss hotels.

Any Swiss person that gets caught with an EU VAT claim , not declared in Switzerland on coming back into the country, can be heavily fined if caught. It rarely happens . However, it seems after a bit of reading, that any Foreign Tourist can claim the VAT back. However , must in person show the original invoice and products on leaving Switzerland. VAT is 7.7 percent, hardly worth writing home about if you are buying a Rolex.

[Mase]

McAtee scores again. Get him back and he can replace Cole.

[BlueinBosnia]

Any Swiss person that gets caught with an EU VAT claim , not declared in Switzerland on coming back into the country, can be heavily fined if caught. It rarely happens . However, it seems after a bit of reading, that any Foreign Tourist can claim the VAT back. However , must in person show the original invoice and products on leaving Switzerland. VAT is 7.7 percent, hardly worth writing home about if you are buying a Rolex.

I know. Which is why I wrote in my original reply:

If you buy a £20K watch, you get a rebate of just over a grand.

I have no idea how Chinese people think about this. Or how the refund mechanism works with these tour companies. But I guess the appeal to the general psyche is similar to those 'free' day trips people are offered in Jordan and similar, where a tour guide makes commission on sales, or 'free' holidays where you're pressured into buying a timeshare. Going on holiday to end up spending five figures on an apartment that you don't even own, but getting a few free cocktails and steaks in return sounds equally absurd to some people.

This is also something I'm not sure about, and it depends on the refund mechanism/legality: if someone spends £20K on a watch as a business expense, and gets the VAT (minus commission) refunded in cash (with the actual refund going to the tour company - as far as I know, you can 'nominate' a bank account for money to be repaid into, and it doesn't need to be the original one used for payment), that's a grand in the hand that can be spent on less legitimate activities. Not a huge amount, I know, but it's money that the Chinese Communist Party is no longer able to keep an eye on.

[Mase]

Guys - why don’t you PM each other or move to Off Topic?