The flaw with 4-3-3

[MaineRoadMemories]

I do believe that 4-3-3 is our strongest system this season and we should use it at home especially against non top 4 teams however against Wolves a fatal flaw emerged.

It’s no secret that the 4-3-3 formation is always susceptible to wing play from the opposition. The two outside right and outside left strikers have to work very hard in both attack and deep midfield to combat the wing play from the opposition.

Now to begin with Wolves went direct and caused Kolo some pretty scary moments, he needs to deal with high balls better! They also tried through the middle but every time Barry, Kolo and Dunne got the better of them. All was looking good.

Then in the second half Wolves went down the flanks and went 4-4-2 and used the wide pitch to great effect.

Now attacking down our right they easily got past Robinho, no surprises there, but where met with some very good defending by the trio of Bridge, Barry and Dunne.

Most, if not all attacks down our left were sniffed out well.

However, around 60-70mins into the game, Wolves started to get joy attacking down our right hand side.

First of all Tevez decided he’d had enough of running and became an orthodox striker not coming back behind the half way line just camping next to Ade.

SWP let everything go past him on the right from around this time onwards to. Unlike Tevez who was just knackered and couldn’t be arsed helping out his right back, SWP had decisions to make.

Did he stick inside and help Ireland combat the rampaging Wolves midfield by flooding the middle of the park or did he go out wide and help Richards? Most, if not all of the time, he stuck inside.

Now with the ball approaching our 18 yard line Richards is on his own, sometimes against two Wolves attackers. Now last year (with Dunnie playing right side of centre back) he would come out to help and leave the middle exposed to late runners into the box.

Kolo does not do this, he decides to stick to his position and mark the box. Again there are advantages and disadvantages of doing both. On Saturday he made the right decision.

However, we cannot go into the next game playing 4-3-3 and have our right sided striker and right side midfielder both abandon their duties and leave Richards 2 against 1.

Quality teams would have scored a couple through that route against us. It was apparent to our players to. Adebayor at one stage raced past both Tevez and SWP to help out Richards, he tackled the player and even won a goal kick by blasting it against the winger. Given was not impressed either and had a word with SWP whilst Tevez was hauled off.

It was interesting to see the striking differences of this formation working very well with Robinho, Bridge, Barry and Dunne, but not working at all with Tevez, SWP, Richards and Toure.

What’s for sure is we can’t leave gaps like that again against teams playing 4-4-2 or with wide midfielders, and the likes of Tevez and SWP need to take some more responsibility when it comes to defending the right flank. It’s not fair on Richards to let him do it all on his own.

[FA cup winners 2006]

from what i seen, we were playing a 442, but i do agree that we are more suited to a 433 come 451, but to play that de jong has to come in and SWP loses out, this would give more balance across our midfield

[Michael Brookes]

ok so admittedly i only saw the second half on saturday, but havent we been playing 442?

we did against Blackburn, and from the lineup and second half, we did again against wolves?

[pepsi_dave]

We definitely played 4-4-2 for the first half, I think during the second half or maybe at half time we switched more to 4-3-3/4-5-1 and this if for me when we became exposed a bit...... 4-4-2 seems to be more solid, 4-3-3 seems to be very fluid and allows for great attacking play but leaves us lacking when we are on the back foot.

[london blue 2]

we do not play 4-4-2

robson isnt a left winger.

just thought i'd clear that up.

[Blue Blood]

we have defo played a 4-4-2 variation these past two games. its worked quite well imo.

[elks]

we do not play 4-4-2

robson isnt a left winger.

just thought i'd clear that up.

sometimes i wonder if some city fans watch the same game as me..
we have definately played 4-4-2 in the first 2 games.. its just fluid.. 4-4-2 does not mean the strikers have to be the furthest forward and the wingers have to be stood out on the byline waiting for the ball

if robinho hasnt played left wing in the first two games where has he played.. hes attacked down the by line enough times.. hes come inside as good wingers do when he found it as a better option
this board stuns me sometimes.. over the past year iv wondered what game people watch.. why does everyone on here think the job of an attacking left winger is to cover his left back at all opportunities.. it fuck..g isnt

when do you ever see malouda, nani, arshavin, lennon defending at all given opportunities.. and these are all from top 6 teams.. im so happy half the people on here are not our manager or they would turn the most exciting player going forward at our club into a left back. we have barry to cover bridge.. robinhos job is to go forward.. petrov hardly tracked back either

this year robinho has played as a left winger.. no one can convince me of different.. i have watched 180 mins of him in that position.. last year he would be more upfront but now when we dont have the ball he makes his way back to the left side of the field and recieves the ball there at most times before cutting inside or going on the out

we have defo played 4-4-2

on a side note i agree at times 4-3-3 with de jong in there instead of wright phillips may suit us

[Mase]

I thought I read somewhere that we've been playing a 4-2-3-1 formation that Hughes has been working on over the summer. I might be wrong, maybe Doug could clear it up?

[Lees Alter Ego]

Excellent post and agree with most of what you say. Robson and Tevez needed to put a shift in an like you said past 60-70 mins it was evident they were slacking. People were going mad around me at Richards but as you pointed out he had two to contend with. We got away with it on Saturday but it does need to be addressed, thnakfully alot of times barry got us out of trouble by covering a lot of ground as did the other two in midfield.

[MaineRoadMemories]

this year robinho has played as a left winger.. no one can convince me of different.. i have watched 180 mins of him in that position.. last year he would be more upfront but now when we dont have the ball he makes his way back to the left side of the field and recieves the ball there at most times before cutting inside or going on the out

we have defo played 4-4-2

on a side note i agree at times 4-3-3 with de jong in there instead of wright phillips may suit us

Robbie, in both games, switched flanks to play on the right for 15 min periods. So I do watch the game quite closely. He also played through the middle for a little on Saturday but not for more than a few minutes.

[london blue 2]

this year robinho has played as a left winger.. no one can convince me of different.. i have watched 180 mins of him in that position.. last year he would be more upfront but now when we dont have the ball he makes his way back to the left side of the field and recieves the ball there at most times before cutting inside or going on the out

we have defo played 4-4-2

on a side note i agree at times 4-3-3 with de jong in there instead of wright phillips may suit us

Robbie, in both games, switched flanks to play on the right for 15 min periods. So I do watch the game quite closely. He also played through the middle for a little on Saturday but not for more than a few minutes.

Nope you're wrong, he's a left winger and we play 4-4-2. Elks says so...

[mcfc1632]

Really good thread - some great points made

I do agree re Tevez on Saturday - but with more fitness his work rate will increase - de Jong should start the majority of games IMO

I like the look of Bridge, Lescott and Barry with de Jong moving to help as required on the left - this allows Robinho to be the outstanding offensive player he is without having to use effort to plau the gaps in the left side that were there all last season

We need the same steel down the right - and for me Micah simply cannot be part of that - he has not the footballing brain to do the job - and will always let the 'right side unit' down by getting out of position - not getting back quickly enough - and he lets players get in so many unchalleneged crosses

I was hoping for a new RB - but otherwise Zab is a far better RB than Micah - how has he not been selected??

Zab, Kolo, Ireland - with de Jong moving across as necessary and Tevez helping as well looks really solid and must be the 1st choice from the current squad IMO

[Crossie]

If you look at a graphic for average player positions, youll see we lined up 4-2-4!!!!

Not sure if that was meant, but it did end up with a clear pattern of 4-2-4.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

He sure looks like a left winger to me. And has done since he signed.
Occasionally he has swapped wings yes. Every now and then he cuts inside, true.
But left winger he certainly is.

[BlooMooner]

Thank god for that! Me and the missus thought we we'd been watching a different match to some blues on here when we saw the MOTM thread and all the plaudits for SWP.
We sit in tier 3 of East stand so get a good bird's eye view of things, and for most of the latter part of the second half we were urging Hughes to either replace or have a word with SWP. From where we sat he seemed to have gone right out of the game and seemed either knackered or disinterested in tracking back and was constantly out of position (assuming he was meant to be wide right) . Same goes for Tevez and I was glad when he was replaced (he was clearly goosed) .
Don't get me wrong I think SWP is excellent when he plays out wide on the right (and he was very good in the first half) but he drifted around the midfield in the second half and left Richards exposed several times - and that's never a good idea! . Now I'm all for the total football approach but if we're to be successful at this then players need to learn a little positional discipline or at least need to be taught to be thoughtful of covering for their teammates should a position on the pitch become vacated or repeatedly exploited by the opposition.
At times I think we lack a little intelligence out there. The best teams like Barca work as hard off the ball as on it. Our movement (or lack of) sometimes betrays our naivety - i mean look how static we are at throw ins and rarely look to take a clever quick free kick.
BUT....we have time on our side and I'm sure we'll get it right. Early days I know , so this isn't an outright whinge ....just observations.

[john@staustell]

Thought it 4-4-1-1 myself!

Anyway, the more we go on, the more SWP will be perceived as a weak link, as other gaps are 'plugged'. Gives the ball away far too much, despite his excellent forward play at times.

[Shegelu]

Thank god for that! Me and the missus thought we we'd been watching a different match to some blues on here when we saw the MOTM thread and all the plaudits for SWP.
We sit in tier 3 of East stand so get a good bird's eye view of things, and for most of the latter part of the second half we were urging Hughes to either replace or have a word with SWP. From where we sat he seemed to have gone right out of the game and seemed either knackered or disinterested in tracking back and was constantly out of position (assuming he was meant to be wide right) . Same goes for Tevez and I was glad when he was replaced (he was clearly goosed) .
Don't get me wrong I think SWP is excellent when he plays out wide on the right (and he was very good in the first half) but he drifted around the midfield in the second half and left Richards exposed several times - and that's never a good idea! . Now I'm all for the total football approach but if we're to be successful at this then players need to learn a little positional discipline or at least need to be taught to be thoughtful of covering for their teammates should a position on the pitch become vacated or repeatedly exploited by the opposition.
At times I think we lack a little intelligence out there. The best teams like Barca work as hard off the ball as on it. Our movement (or lack of) sometimes betrays our naivety - i mean look how static we are at throw ins and rarely look to take a clever quick free kick.
BUT....we have time on our side and I'm sure we'll get it right. Early days I know , so this isn't an outright whinge ....just observations.

Interesting verrrrry interesting thread! I agree that SWP is not at his best playing through the middle. He never looks happy there. He is much better playing wide. For that matter, I agree with Elks, why does everyone expect attacking players to track back all over the field? SWP and particularly Robby are much better going forward and creating chances. Having said that, last season, SWP did get back quite a bit I have to say, especially in the early games.

[Ted Hughes]

We were most definitely playing a variation of 4-3-3, hence Barry cropping up on the left putting crosses in 1st half because he was left side of the midfield 3. Anyone who doubts only need look at how we formed up for oppo goalkicks etc, it was obvious, like a chalk board.

The problem was simple imo, SWP was getting loads of interceptions but he was also running out wide, sprinting the length of the pitch every time we had a break on & he simply did too much. Barry paced himself & used his brain more. SWP & Superman knackered themselves out & were struggling to get around the pitch late on as they had earlier & also McCarthy had that fullback sub following SWP inside to stop him. Wolves upped the pace at the same time.

If we'd wanted to close the game out we could've just swapped SWP for Zabba though. We tried to keep attacking & should have easily scored on the break. Against the best sides we'll probably start off with a more solid & bring on attackers as when we need them as the oppo tires; like the rags do. We can also use RSC to hold the ball up with Ade to play off him.

[Grob]

The formation is pretty liquid. Its best described as the 4-2-3-1. Its certainly not the 4-3-3.

I think our formation is fine. It creates barrell loads of chances and once our attackers stopping spooning them on purpose we will be alright.

Wolves oveloaded the left and hand on saturday in the second half. Shame the quality of their delivery wasnt up to much. Shaun should probably have done a bit more to help Micah in the last 15 minutes.

[branny]

The best right sided combination i've seen so far this season is Onuoha and Weiss. On current form i'd like to see Petrov start ahead of Robinho too. Hopefully they'll all play on Thursday.