The mancityfans.net football forum

I find it a touch ironic that someone arguing against violence should use such (typewritten) violence to assert his view. It is sad that a very intresting topic was spoiled by it somewhat. Opposing views are a part of an internet discussion forum but as Dazby says, it is the views we should attack.

Like it or not, history shows that violence and disorder on the are a part of our nation's culture and because football is also a part of our culture, it is no suprise that it has from time to time reflected that. Youth particularly, those disaffected and other groups who seem to lack the awareness to act differently have always used violence to express its' views. Gangs have been always been a part of our social scene and football gangs would seem to be an extension of that. That DOES NOT EXCUSE IT. I merely point it out.

As a society, we have failed to address this issue and still fail to do so. It was no suprise that a game like last night were used by either of the two communities as an opportunity to continue their long running and often extremely violent opposition to each other.

Before we have any chance of curing it in football, we will have to cure it in society. I feel sure it will happen again as each generation seems to have a need to express its own bloodlust and each generation would seem to fail to learn from the one before.

At best, football can only take steps to protect itself in any way it can from being contaminated.

john68 wrote:I find it a touch ironic that someone arguing against violence should use such (typewritten) violence to assert his view. It is sad that a very intresting topic was spoiled by it somewhat. Opposing views are a part of an internet discussion forum but as Dazby says, it is the views we should attack.

Thank you Mr Ghandi

I was arguing against football violence.....not violence per se ;-)

ant london wrote:

john68 wrote:I find it a touch ironic that someone arguing against violence should use such (typewritten) violence to assert his view. It is sad that a very intresting topic was spoiled by it somewhat. Opposing views are a part of an internet discussion forum but as Dazby says, it is the views we should attack.

Thank you Mr Ghandi

I was arguing against football violence.....not violence per se ;-)

Thank you my child of peace,
It was not your view I was commenting on Mate...I agreed with it...It was the way you were getting yourself wound up in doing so.
May the your soul be calmed and your mind overwhelmed with tranquility....and may the wet kipper of life never slap you round the head...Peace Bro....:-)

john68 wrote:

ant london wrote:

john68 wrote:I find it a touch ironic that someone arguing against violence should use such (typewritten) violence to assert his view. It is sad that a very intresting topic was spoiled by it somewhat. Opposing views are a part of an internet discussion forum but as Dazby says, it is the views we should attack.

Thank you Mr Ghandi

I was arguing against football violence.....not violence per se ;-)

Thank you my child of peace,
It was not your view I was commenting on Mate...I agreed with it...It was the way you were getting yourself wound up in doing so.
May the your soul be calmed and your mind overwhelmed with tranquility....and may the wet kipper of life never slap you round the head...Peace Bro....:-)

I know, I should have stuck to the old mantra of "stand by the side of the river and watch the bodies of your enemies float by" but sometimes when one pops out of the drawer marked rmab I find it difficult to contain my feelings.

I stand suitably chastened oh wise one

that West Ham kid Stanislas is a stone cold killer, no? i thought he was quite tidy. Where's walmai to weight in on this shit? Second time i've needed him this week...basterd.

cheers

DoomMerchant wrote:that West Ham kid Stanislas is a stone cold killer, no? i thought he was quite tidy. Where's walmai to weight in on this shit? Second time i've needed him this week...basterd.

cheers

In hospital or in jail probably.

The violence last night was abhorent and dispicable and no doubt the dickheads will be dealt with accordingly. Lets get some perspective of this though in the wider scope of things. This is not 'normal' in the English game anymore, as it was in the 70's & 80's when i first started going to games, in fact my very first game was in 77 and my mam took me, before we got through the turnstile to the Kippax we had to wait while some City lads finished kicking the shit out of an Everton fan. It was normal in them days, nowadays it is very unusual to get disorder on that scale.
Whose to blame? Well the supporters themselves, i do not agree with charging the clubs or laying the blame on the police, nothing was going to stop that last night.
The British police are the best in the world when it comes to policing events like this, so much so in fact that their counterparts across Europe employ our hooligan team to help and advise and even train with their policing.
We had 33 Million fans go to games last year in England and there were just over 1000 arrests for violent disorder around the grounds. Thats much much less than 1%. Compare that to Italy, Eastern European leagues and South America and you will see how rare football violence is over here. Our figures even hold up against Spain, Portugal, France & Germany.
I agree that we should not let our guard down against this sort of thing but to give up on us winning the World Cup is ludicrous. This was an isolated incident and lessons will be learned, if they are drawn together in the FA Cup for example i doubt they will have a 7.45 evening kick off again and the pubs won't be open either.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

DoomMerchant wrote:that West Ham kid Stanislas is a stone cold killer, no? i thought he was quite tidy. Where's walmai to weight in on this shit? Second time i've needed him this week...basterd.

cheers

In hospital or in jail probably.

now THAT was funny. it's about time. ;)

Whenever you here the term football violence, the club Millwall always get thrown around.
Do they even care about how their actions damage their club's reputation???

Would like to see a personality profile of the typical Millwall fan.
Ex-Stranglers Roadie, used to run an Off-License, convicted rapist.

I am not so sure about West Ham. A movie was made called Green Street Hooligans,
fell asleep halfway through. It's about Frodo (Elijah Wood) going to visit his cousin in
London and getting the shit kicked out of him.

Apparently, it was right on the money!!

CitizenYank wrote:Whenever you here the term football violence, the club Millwall always get thrown around.
Do they even care about how their actions damage their club's reputation???

To most of these idiots the football club is just an after thought, that's why the banning orders are a waste of time. In this instance it seems that the majority of the trouble was caused by West Ham fans who had pre-arranged to meet up with the Millwall brigade for a ruck, the police were savvy to this and stopped them from getting to the Millwall fans and therefore the West Ham mob turned on the police instead

lets all have a disco wrote:I wonder if Danny Dyer was down the front beefing it up proper nawty.

I heard that there was a little yank in the WHU end givin it the big un!

I think people need to remember what happened at Boro with the police and our fans the other season before saying "ban both teams forever!". Every team has their fair share of fans who instigate violence. You just have to check on YouTube and you can find a fair few videos of our lot fighing or winding other sets of fans up inside the stadium.

Media saying “OMG someone got stabbed” FFS how do they know that the guy wasn’t trying to stab someone themselves and got the knife turned on them? We don’t know the facts. I think this needs to be put in to perspective here. This is one match in how many that has been that violent?? It doesn't happen every week and if it does, it's kept well under wraps by the firms themselves.

MaseCTID wrote:I think people need to remember what happened at Boro with the police and our fans the other season before saying "ban both teams forever!". Every team has their fair share of fans who instigate violence. You just have to check on YouTube and you can find a fair few videos of our lot fighing or winding other sets of fans up inside the stadium.

Media saying “OMG someone got stabbed” FFS how do they know that the guy wasn’t trying to stab someone themselves and got the knife turned on them? We don’t know the facts. I think this needs to be put in to perspective here. This is one match in how many that has been that violent?? It doesn't happen every week and if it does, it's kept well under wraps by the firms themselves.

I think the fact someone ANYONE got stabbed should be the overriding fact to focus on here.

I live in a country that is mad on so many sports where violence amongst fans is completely unheard of. I don't know what we are doing right or what you lot are doing wrong, but maybe people should be looking towards the root causes of the problem and solving that first. I can tell you when I saw the news report and heard at the end "and they will ban anyone found from football grounds for life" I thought what a fucking joke of a punishment that is.

One guy gets stabbed, EVERYONE involved should be charged along the thinking that inciting as a crowd is paramount to the crime itself. Once enough people get jailed for committing crimes under the banner of 'football' then maybe women and children could go to a Millwall/West Ham match without people thinking to do such being called complete arseholes.

Slim wrote:

MaseCTID wrote:I think people need to remember what happened at Boro with the police and our fans the other season before saying "ban both teams forever!". Every team has their fair share of fans who instigate violence. You just have to check on YouTube and you can find a fair few videos of our lot fighing or winding other sets of fans up inside the stadium.

Media saying “OMG someone got stabbed” FFS how do they know that the guy wasn’t trying to stab someone themselves and got the knife turned on them? We don’t know the facts. I think this needs to be put in to perspective here. This is one match in how many that has been that violent?? It doesn't happen every week and if it does, it's kept well under wraps by the firms themselves.

I think the fact someone ANYONE got stabbed should be the overriding fact to focus on here.

I live in a country that is mad on so many sports where violence amongst fans is completely unheard of. I don't know what we are doing right or what you lot are doing wrong, but maybe people should be looking towards the root causes of the problem and solving that first. I can tell you when I saw the news report and heard at the end "and they will ban anyone found from football grounds for life" I thought what a fucking joke of a punishment that is.

One guy gets stabbed, EVERYONE involved should be charged along the thinking that inciting as a crowd is paramount to the crime itself. Once enough people get jailed for committing crimes under the banner of 'football' then maybe women and children could go to a Millwall/West Ham match without people thinking to do such being called complete arseholes.

A lot of the people involved in the violence didn't even go to the game & weren't wearing colours of either team so it's debatable whether it can even be called a football problem. Football is just another excuse for arseholes to behave like arseholes.

As I posted earlier many of these characters are on video & if/when they bother to catch them, they'll be let off with the lightest of punishment, as they always have been. If anyone tries to do anything about it a bunch of lawyers, judges & general do-gooders will try to stop them. 99% of everyone in the country, from whatever background, creed, colour, religion etc is
sick to death of these people, not just in football related crimes but all crimes everywhere but none of our political parties will do anything about it apart from the nazis who would be more of an abomination than the shitbags themselves & just use it as an excuse to gain power, then recruit half of them to shit on everyone else. Therin lies one of the core problems with our whole society imo; the decent majority don't really have a say in this kind of thing, the politicians decide for us & their answer is to do fuck all.

Sorry, I've had a drink, it pisses me off, I'll get me coat!

Dazzacity wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Dazzacity wrote:

Patrick wrote:

one man army wrote:i'd actually love to read some oldschool stories and legends about english + old firm football hooliganism, classic fights, riots and clashes, famous fans, fans rivalries etc.
i know there's a michael francis book about city hools. any other books/sites?

violence is for complete knobheads who have tried and still try to ruin the game

are you a knobhead?

People like you really do annoy me.. People read all sorts of books on murders/crime etc.That doesnt mean they are then prepared to go out and kill someone.. Iv read the Guvnors book and was one of the most entertainin books I have read.That guy really has lived an eventful life and for that I say fair play to him!!! Dont you find films that involve some sort of violence entertainin, or are you more of a chick flicks type of guy??

Which bit annoys you my view that violence is for knobheads or the question?

One Man Army answered the question pretty well imho

You however admire people who uphold violence and watch violent films then insinuate I watch weepys

Unfortunately I dont have the IQ to respond to such a clever put down so Im going to smash your face in cunt

Pahahahahaha .

The bit that annoyed me was where you felt you had to question whether he was a knobhead or not just because of the books he chooses to read. For this I questioned that, with your theory on things, you must not watch films etc that have scenes of violence, which tbf, is most films these days..

OK Dazzacity lets try reason - if you can compare real footy violence stabbing real people and occaisionally popping the odd murder to a scene from - shall we say the godfather? can i perhaps compare football violence to football racism

In my simple girly world both are abhorrent and should not be tolerated

If someone tells me a book that glorifies racism is interesting and a jolly good read I presume they were racist.......

Now tell me truthfully - do you like footy violence? Dont really mind it? Or really believe that it should be treated the same way as the pieces of shit that practice it?

Patrick wrote:

Dazzacity wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Dazzacity wrote:

Patrick wrote:
violence is for complete knobheads who have tried and still try to ruin the game

are you a knobhead?

People like you really do annoy me.. People read all sorts of books on murders/crime etc.That doesnt mean they are then prepared to go out and kill someone.. Iv read the Guvnors book and was one of the most entertainin books I have read.That guy really has lived an eventful life and for that I say fair play to him!!! Dont you find films that involve some sort of violence entertainin, or are you more of a chick flicks type of guy??

Which bit annoys you my view that violence is for knobheads or the question?

One Man Army answered the question pretty well imho

You however admire people who uphold violence and watch violent films then insinuate I watch weepys

Unfortunately I dont have the IQ to respond to such a clever put down so Im going to smash your face in cunt

Pahahahahaha .

The bit that annoyed me was where you felt you had to question whether he was a knobhead or not just because of the books he chooses to read. For this I questioned that, with your theory on things, you must not watch films etc that have scenes of violence, which tbf, is most films these days..

OK Dazzacity lets try reason - if you can compare real footy violence stabbing real people and occaisionally popping the odd murder to a scene from - shall we say the godfather? can i perhaps compare football violence to football racism

In my simple girly world both are abhorrent and should not be tolerated

If someone tells me a book that glorifies racism is interesting and a jolly good read I presume they were racist.......

Now tell me truthfully - do you like footy violence? Dont really mind it? Or really believe that it should be treated the same way as the pieces of shit that practice it?

But I wouldn't say the book glorifies football violence. Its a book on his whole life and some of the parts I found interesting was his years before and after football, his years growing up in Moss Side, his time working on the doors around Manchester. Im sure many of these books are full of bollox, but The Govnors seems like a genuine story on what was going on in those days. Educating myself on what actually went on. I know many fans of other teams that say its a very good read. I was told its a good book, bought it, read it, enjoyed it..sorry about that but I like reading into real life accounts like Biographies ect, so I know that what Im reading actually happened. Thats just what I like, reality. Things like Harry Potter and co ent my cup of tea.

If you think a person has to relate to everything they choose to watch and read then Im sorry to hear that but thats your choice in thinking. As for racism etc, yes, Id start judging if I see a person reading a book on hardcore Nazism or Muslim extreamism, but I think thats a whole different ball game.

i dont think you have to relate everything at all - i think you did it in the first instance when you tried to conclude my taste in films made me a bleeding heart

footy violence is aabhorrent to most civilised people - so a book that aggrandises it and profits a man who spent his life destroying other peoples would be in the same category of book as your two examples to me

Patrick wrote:i dont think you have to relate everything at all - i think you did it in the first instance when you tried to conclude my taste in films made me a bleeding heart

footy violence is aabhorrent to most civilised people - so a book that aggrandises it and profits a man who spent his life destroying other peoples would be in the same category of book as your two examples to me

Come on Paddy...I JUST KNOW you love a good weepie...How many times have you watched the Gillingham play off final, with your bright orange pants round your ankles and tears streaming down your face...waiting for the Dickov moment...BE HONEST!

Patrick wrote:i dont think you have to relate everything at all - i think you did it in the first instance when you tried to conclude my taste in films made me a bleeding heart

footy violence is aabhorrent to most civilised people - so a book that aggrandises it and profits a man who spent his life destroying other peoples would be in the same category of book as your two examples to me

I obviously hit a nerve by saying that about the chick flicks, it was only a little dig for a bit of fun and Im sorry it hit you so hard. I really dont think Mickey has destroyed anyones life. At most, fighting with like minded people.Im sure no one still bares those mental scars to this very day.

As for comparing those books mentioned, well thats something we will have to agree to disagree no. Nazis killing millions of innocent people/ Extremists glorifying death to none believers,killing innocent people/ a few football hooligan living a wild life fighting like minded guys. Not sure what you think but I know which one is tame compared to the other two.

CitizenYank wrote:Whenever you here the term football violence, the club Millwall always get thrown around.
Do they even care about how their actions damage their club's reputation???

Would like to see a personality profile of the typical Millwall fan.
Ex-Stranglers Roadie, used to run an Off-License, convicted rapist.

I am not so sure about West Ham. A movie was made called Green Street Hooligans,
fell asleep halfway through. It's about Frodo (Elijah Wood) going to visit his cousin in
London and getting the shit kicked out of him.

Apparently, it was right on the money!!

That is a truly shit film. The only thinger shitter than the film itself, is the 'acting' of that Geordie twat, trying to be cockney. Worst accent I've ever heard, fucl knows why they didn't just cast somebody from London. Or an actor who can actually talk like a southern twunt. But then they probably would've cast the king of all twats, Danny Dyer.