Red Rom to sabotage for City

[Socrates]

I totaly understand the point and there is no need for the childish/patronising comments either. You've basically stated that we are fucked and fucked again, and this has been aided by our owners insistence on keeping Hughes; therefore we are fucked because of Hughes as there is no option for change.

Excuse me if I'm getting you wrong but it seems my intelligence seems to be lacking!?!

Being as there are so many variables, why isn't there a Plan B or C or D. Who says that Hughes is going to fail? Who says that if Hughes doesn't achieve top spot this year, that we won't achieve it next? Who says we won't have the financial income by 2012 to keep the likes of Platini happy? Who says Platini will be there next year? Who says the Sheihk would let this happen?

The variables are endless Jon, so your random statement doesn't quite cover the reality; just one extreme scenario.

You already showed you didn't get the points I made at the time by saying they were just to get at Hughes when they weren't. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but you are still reading what you want to read rather than what I actually say!

I have at no stage said we are fucked either once or again. I'll repeat it again in one last hope that you actually read what I say and try and get you away from the idea that I am speaking from an anti-Hughes agenda...

What I've said is that the threat from the vested interests is real and that, therefore, time is of the essence. We need rapid progress. To me this sort of move was inevitable and that this is why I believed that sticking with Hughes wasn't the highest percentage call back at the turn of the year. The window of opportunity to go with someone more experienced, and therefore increase the percentage chance we can get big before they can stop us, has long passed. I believe our only chance of the project succeeding is now for Hughes to get very quick results. I am not saying he will fail, just that his success is now what our future hopes are dependant on. Or to try and put in the terms you have, if Hughes doesn't get us there then we are fucked. We only have one shot at this before they slam the door in our faces.

Let me clarify further. If the rules came in for 2012, as expected, they would be based on our previous turnover. That means we would need to already have our turnover at high levels before then. That means we almost certainly need big money in by 2011. That means playing ECL next season if we are to be certain we can get the turnover high enough quickly enough.

On Platini, he is just the mouthpiece, him going would make no difference. He will only go if he fails to protect the vested interests that are behind this, in that scenario we may get someone even worse, or may be looking from the sidelines at the new European Super League.

The Sheikh simply does not have the power to stop them doing this. If they group together and stick together then nobody does. We can try and drive a wedge between the big 4 and the rest of the G14+1 but they all fear our spending power too. So I don't see much hope there. We just have to beat them to the punch. No other option.

[Beefymcfc]

I totaly understand the point and there is no need for the childish/patronising comments either. You've basically stated that we are fucked and fucked again, and this has been aided by our owners insistence on keeping Hughes; therefore we are fucked because of Hughes as there is no option for change.

Excuse me if I'm getting you wrong but it seems my intelligence seems to be lacking!?!

Being as there are so many variables, why isn't there a Plan B or C or D. Who says that Hughes is going to fail? Who says that if Hughes doesn't achieve top spot this year, that we won't achieve it next? Who says we won't have the financial income by 2012 to keep the likes of Platini happy? Who says Platini will be there next year? Who says the Sheihk would let this happen?

The variables are endless Jon, so your random statement doesn't quite cover the reality; just one extreme scenario.

You already showed you didn't get the points I made at the time by saying they were just to get at Hughes when they weren't. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but you are still reading what you want to read rather than what I actually say!

I have at no stage said we are fucked either once or again. I'll repeat it again in one last hope that you actually read what I say and try and get you away from the idea that I am speaking from an anti-Hughes agenda...

What I've said is that the threat from the vested interests is real and that, therefore, time is of the essence. We need rapid progress. To me this sort of move was inevitable and that this is why I believed that sticking with Hughes wasn't the highest percentage call back at the turn of the year. The window of opportunity to go with someone more experienced, and therefore increase the percentage chance we can get big before they can stop us, has long passed. I believe our only chance of the project succeeding is now for Hughes to get very quick results. I am not saying he will fail, just that his success is now what our future hopes are dependant on. Or to try and put in the terms you have, if Hughes doesn't get us there then we are fucked. We only have one shot at this before they slam the door in our faces.

Let me clarify further. If the rules came in for 2012, as expected, they would be based on our previous turnover. That means we would need to already have our turnover at high levels before then. That means we almost certainly need big money in by 2011. That means playing ECL next season if we are to be certain we can get the turnover high enough quickly enough.

On Platini, he is just the mouthpiece, him going would make no difference. He will only go if he fails to protect the vested interests that are behind this, in that scenario we may get someone even worse, or may be looking from the sidelines at the new European Super League.

The Sheikh simply does not have the power to stop them doing this. If they group together and stick together then nobody does. We can try and drive a wedge between the big 4 and the rest of the G14+1 but they all fear our spending power too. So I don't see much hope there. We just have to beat them to the punch. No other option.

Thanks for clarifying that Jon as that doesn't sound anything like this and the vested comments regarding naiviety:

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

However, as NQDP says, you have some sort of financial background and have a good idea of what happens in that domain, but why is this such a dire situation if we don't make it by 2012. As you state, if turnover and operating costs will be calculated from the fiscal year prior to when it starts, would we have had much of a chance to make it there anyway. With those criteria, it would mean we had 3 years from when the Sheihk took over and even he was given us 5 years to get there; and 3 years would be some feat by any manager.

We all know that Platini is the mouth piece of the Euro Scroungers, however one thing he has to do is ensure a sense of fair play between all the leagues otherwise it becomes a Super league (non European) and nothing more. Many teams in Eastern Europe are subsidised in the exact way we are, and many Western European clubs in similar ways, so what happens to them? Teams like Real Madrid will have to come under the same umbrella and although they are a bigger money generating club, I am sure that they will not be within budget with the wages they pay.

There is one thing that is making me think in all this, is if the individual league champions are not within budget and face expulsion from European Competition, who would actually want to watch it, and for that, which broadcasters would want to pay massive amounts to televise it? All relative!!!

[DoomMerchant]

so it's true then. We are ruining football.

cheers.

[simon12]

Rags debt grew last year so they couldn`t enter
chelsea have just made terry a £40m contract...how would that work with an ageing side that needs replacing
arse are quite well run putting the stadium debt aside so I can see it with them
Bin dippers...fuck knows as they don`t either

I can see a wartered down version of these proposals coming in as due to the current terms being debated at this moment would stop a lot of eastern european teams qualifying and negating the early qualification rounds thus losing revenue. Also juve..they get fuckall ticket sales..how would they fare?

[Slim]

Rags debt grew last year so they couldn`t enter
chelsea have just made terry a £40m contract...how would that work with an ageing side that needs replacing
arse are quite well run putting the stadium debt aside so I can see it with them
Bin dippers...fuck knows as they don`t either

I can see a wartered down version of these proposals coming in as due to the current terms being debated at this moment would stop a lot of eastern european teams qualifying and negating the early qualification rounds thus losing revenue. Also juve..they get fuckall ticket sales..how would they fare?

Add to that the likes of Real, Barca and Milan don't give a fuck which English teams make up our contingent, Platini who wanted to ban any club that had ANY debt from european competition, is just huffing and puffing again. But JF no doubt will claim we can't see his long essay style points.

[Socrates]

I totaly understand the point and there is no need for the childish/patronising comments either. You've basically stated that we are fucked and fucked again, and this has been aided by our owners insistence on keeping Hughes; therefore we are fucked because of Hughes as there is no option for change.

Excuse me if I'm getting you wrong but it seems my intelligence seems to be lacking!?!

Being as there are so many variables, why isn't there a Plan B or C or D. Who says that Hughes is going to fail? Who says that if Hughes doesn't achieve top spot this year, that we won't achieve it next? Who says we won't have the financial income by 2012 to keep the likes of Platini happy? Who says Platini will be there next year? Who says the Sheihk would let this happen?

The variables are endless Jon, so your random statement doesn't quite cover the reality; just one extreme scenario.

You already showed you didn't get the points I made at the time by saying they were just to get at Hughes when they weren't. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but you are still reading what you want to read rather than what I actually say!

I have at no stage said we are fucked either once or again. I'll repeat it again in one last hope that you actually read what I say and try and get you away from the idea that I am speaking from an anti-Hughes agenda...

What I've said is that the threat from the vested interests is real and that, therefore, time is of the essence. We need rapid progress. To me this sort of move was inevitable and that this is why I believed that sticking with Hughes wasn't the highest percentage call back at the turn of the year. The window of opportunity to go with someone more experienced, and therefore increase the percentage chance we can get big before they can stop us, has long passed. I believe our only chance of the project succeeding is now for Hughes to get very quick results. I am not saying he will fail, just that his success is now what our future hopes are dependant on. Or to try and put in the terms you have, if Hughes doesn't get us there then we are fucked. We only have one shot at this before they slam the door in our faces.

Let me clarify further. If the rules came in for 2012, as expected, they would be based on our previous turnover. That means we would need to already have our turnover at high levels before then. That means we almost certainly need big money in by 2011. That means playing ECL next season if we are to be certain we can get the turnover high enough quickly enough.

On Platini, he is just the mouthpiece, him going would make no difference. He will only go if he fails to protect the vested interests that are behind this, in that scenario we may get someone even worse, or may be looking from the sidelines at the new European Super League.

The Sheikh simply does not have the power to stop them doing this. If they group together and stick together then nobody does. We can try and drive a wedge between the big 4 and the rest of the G14+1 but they all fear our spending power too. So I don't see much hope there. We just have to beat them to the punch. No other option.

Thanks for clarifying that Jon as that doesn't sound anything like this and the vested comments regarding naiviety:

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

However, as NQDP says, you have some sort of financial background and have a good idea of what happens in that domain, but why is this such a dire situation if we don't make it by 2012. As you state, if turnover and operating costs will be calculated from the fiscal year prior to when it starts, would we have had much of a chance to make it there anyway. With those criteria, it would mean we had 3 years from when the Sheihk took over and even he was given us 5 years to get there; and 3 years would be some feat by any manager.

We all know that Platini is the mouth piece of the Euro Scroungers, however one thing he has to do is ensure a sense of fair play between all the leagues otherwise it becomes a Super league (non European) and nothing more. Many teams in Eastern Europe are subsidised in the exact way we are, and many Western European clubs in similar ways, so what happens to them? Teams like Real Madrid will have to come under the same umbrella and although they are a bigger money generating club, I am sure that they will not be within budget with the wages they pay.

There is one thing that is making me think in all this, is if the individual league champions are not within budget and face expulsion from European Competition, who would actually want to watch it, and for that, which broadcasters would want to pay massive amounts to televise it? All relative!!!

Without already having Champions League money our wage bill alone will exceed our turnover thereby disqualifying us from the Champions League and putting us into what will be a vicious circle. Which is why we need to qualify now and get the ECL money incorporated into our turnover very quickly. They are trying to lock the existing teams in, it will be drafted so as not to effect Real or the Rags. Why else would they be talking about commercial debt being ok but capital investment not being?

[Original Dub]

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

Soc, you state that the reason you wanted Hughes out was because of this and that the naive minds have woken and smelled the coffee? Well excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it these Naive Minds who actually had trust in the management and had smelt the coffee, had bacon butties and caught the worm as they say; unlike you who were sleeping!

You have also stated that the management have twigged, so does this mean you are actually giving Hughes credit for the insight he has shown and credit to the people who actually stood by the clubs management decision?

This is not a dig at you mate, but when you come over 'I told you so' when in reality it is those who supported Hughes continuation in post, then I seem to get a little confused!?!

Sorry, but the actual fact is that Hughes still remains unproven. Three narrow wins, playing fairly poorly, against three of the poorest sides in the division in no more than "so far so good." Long, long way to go before we find out whether the huge gamble of keeping Hughes has paid off. The percentage call would definitely have been to recruit a manager with proven success. The time constraints I was eluding to earlier in the year remain. The events since just prove the basis of my analysis was correct. Those who supported Hughes "continuity" are yet to be proven right about ANYTHING. In fact their arguments at the time about slow building and organic change have been absolutely blown away by the actions of Hughes himself!

Mate you're always banging on about this HUGE gamble in keeping Hughes. Now you're talking about how poorly the last 9 points have been earned. Its pathetic and so is your constant preaching that you spotted the way the world workd before the rest of us.

You want gambles? Try Scolari, Van Gaal, Zico, Mancini and all the others you banged on about who are either managing big clubs and on the brink of the sack, managing small shitty clubs or have no jobs at all.

How does THAT coffee smell?

[Beefymcfc]

I totaly understand the point and there is no need for the childish/patronising comments either. You've basically stated that we are fucked and fucked again, and this has been aided by our owners insistence on keeping Hughes; therefore we are fucked because of Hughes as there is no option for change.

Excuse me if I'm getting you wrong but it seems my intelligence seems to be lacking!?!

Being as there are so many variables, why isn't there a Plan B or C or D. Who says that Hughes is going to fail? Who says that if Hughes doesn't achieve top spot this year, that we won't achieve it next? Who says we won't have the financial income by 2012 to keep the likes of Platini happy? Who says Platini will be there next year? Who says the Sheihk would let this happen?

The variables are endless Jon, so your random statement doesn't quite cover the reality; just one extreme scenario.

You already showed you didn't get the points I made at the time by saying they were just to get at Hughes when they weren't. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but you are still reading what you want to read rather than what I actually say!

I have at no stage said we are fucked either once or again. I'll repeat it again in one last hope that you actually read what I say and try and get you away from the idea that I am speaking from an anti-Hughes agenda...

What I've said is that the threat from the vested interests is real and that, therefore, time is of the essence. We need rapid progress. To me this sort of move was inevitable and that this is why I believed that sticking with Hughes wasn't the highest percentage call back at the turn of the year. The window of opportunity to go with someone more experienced, and therefore increase the percentage chance we can get big before they can stop us, has long passed. I believe our only chance of the project succeeding is now for Hughes to get very quick results. I am not saying he will fail, just that his success is now what our future hopes are dependant on. Or to try and put in the terms you have, if Hughes doesn't get us there then we are fucked. We only have one shot at this before they slam the door in our faces.

Let me clarify further. If the rules came in for 2012, as expected, they would be based on our previous turnover. That means we would need to already have our turnover at high levels before then. That means we almost certainly need big money in by 2011. That means playing ECL next season if we are to be certain we can get the turnover high enough quickly enough.

On Platini, he is just the mouthpiece, him going would make no difference. He will only go if he fails to protect the vested interests that are behind this, in that scenario we may get someone even worse, or may be looking from the sidelines at the new European Super League.

The Sheikh simply does not have the power to stop them doing this. If they group together and stick together then nobody does. We can try and drive a wedge between the big 4 and the rest of the G14+1 but they all fear our spending power too. So I don't see much hope there. We just have to beat them to the punch. No other option.

Thanks for clarifying that Jon as that doesn't sound anything like this and the vested comments regarding naiviety:

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

However, as NQDP says, you have some sort of financial background and have a good idea of what happens in that domain, but why is this such a dire situation if we don't make it by 2012. As you state, if turnover and operating costs will be calculated from the fiscal year prior to when it starts, would we have had much of a chance to make it there anyway. With those criteria, it would mean we had 3 years from when the Sheihk took over and even he was given us 5 years to get there; and 3 years would be some feat by any manager.

We all know that Platini is the mouth piece of the Euro Scroungers, however one thing he has to do is ensure a sense of fair play between all the leagues otherwise it becomes a Super league (non European) and nothing more. Many teams in Eastern Europe are subsidised in the exact way we are, and many Western European clubs in similar ways, so what happens to them? Teams like Real Madrid will have to come under the same umbrella and although they are a bigger money generating club, I am sure that they will not be within budget with the wages they pay.

There is one thing that is making me think in all this, is if the individual league champions are not within budget and face expulsion from European Competition, who would actually want to watch it, and for that, which broadcasters would want to pay massive amounts to televise it? All relative!!!

Without already having Champions League money our wage bill alone will exceed our turnover thereby disqualifying us from the Champions League and putting us into what will be a vicious circle. Which is why we need to qualify now and get the ECL money incorporated into our turnover very quickly. They are trying to lock the existing teams in, it will be drafted so as not to effect Real or the Rags. Why else would they be talking about commercial debt being ok but capital investment not being?

The wage bill issue is totally understandable but as I have mentioned in my last paragraph, and Simon Says ;-) in his post, there will be too many big teams outside of the legislation therefore if the rules came into effect, the game would not be worth watching; and neither would the broadcasters want to pay the extautionate sums for 2nd class football.

I actually applaud Platini for trying to do something about it, but he is wrong to aim it at clubs who are running without debt or the threat of of going under. The alarmist would say that this is vital for our future, whereas I say we are the future. No debt, no financial issues, no problems; just good old City becoming the 'Best Team in the Land, in all the World'. And there's no stopping that, whichever way you look at it!

[simon12]

There`s also infrastructure to think off. How easy do you think it will be for this G(gormless)14 to just walk away and set up on there own? Not a cat in hells chance. Who would be in charge? Who decides the revenue split? Too many cheifs and no indians.

[ronk]

I actually applaud Platini for trying to do something about it, but he is wrong to aim it at clubs who are running without debt or the threat of of going under. The alarmist would say that this is vital for our future, whereas I say we are the future. No debt, no financial issues, no problems; just good old City becoming the 'Best Team in the Land, in all the World'. And there's no stopping that, whichever way you look at it!

It's not really aimed at us, we're just the flavour of the month. The real problem is that wage inflation was encouraged to make the strong clubs much stronger. They (mostly) have that now. Their new enemy is the overpaid players, but they can't admit that now, can they?

The big clubs want to limit their own spending so the owners can get back to making money. They don't want to make it a completely closed shop, just closed enough that they'll be less worried than they are now.

[simon12]

I actually applaud Platini for trying to do something about it, but he is wrong to aim it at clubs who are running without debt or the threat of of going under. The alarmist would say that this is vital for our future, whereas I say we are the future. No debt, no financial issues, no problems; just good old City becoming the 'Best Team in the Land, in all the World'. And there's no stopping that, whichever way you look at it!

It's not really aimed at us, we're just the flavour of the month. The real problem is that wage inflation was encouraged to make the strong clubs much stronger. They (mostly) have that now. Their new enemy is the overpaid players, but they can't admit that now, can they?

The big clubs want to limit their own spending so the owners can get back to making money. They don't want to make it a completely closed shop, just closed enough that they'll be less worried than they are now.

What has crossed my mind is
1. Rom has no money and no return on his investment
2. Most importantly in order to save face and to ward City off is if the new laws state income and outgoings have to tally, does he not buy new players(doesn`t sit well with fans) or does he tell players that they can`t have the wages they want(fans views are players paid too much) and they won`t leave CL team for a team not in it already. This is win, win for Rom.

[Socrates]

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

Soc, you state that the reason you wanted Hughes out was because of this and that the naive minds have woken and smelled the coffee? Well excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it these Naive Minds who actually had trust in the management and had smelt the coffee, had bacon butties and caught the worm as they say; unlike you who were sleeping!

You have also stated that the management have twigged, so does this mean you are actually giving Hughes credit for the insight he has shown and credit to the people who actually stood by the clubs management decision?

This is not a dig at you mate, but when you come over 'I told you so' when in reality it is those who supported Hughes continuation in post, then I seem to get a little confused!?!

Sorry, but the actual fact is that Hughes still remains unproven. Three narrow wins, playing fairly poorly, against three of the poorest sides in the division in no more than "so far so good." Long, long way to go before we find out whether the huge gamble of keeping Hughes has paid off. The percentage call would definitely have been to recruit a manager with proven success. The time constraints I was eluding to earlier in the year remain. The events since just prove the basis of my analysis was correct. Those who supported Hughes "continuity" are yet to be proven right about ANYTHING. In fact their arguments at the time about slow building and organic change have been absolutely blown away by the actions of Hughes himself!

Mate you're always banging on about this HUGE gamble in keeping Hughes. Now you're talking about how poorly the last 9 points have been earned. Its pathetic and so is your constant preaching that you spotted the way the world workd before the rest of us.

You want gambles? Try Scolari, Van Gaal, Zico, Mancini and all the others you banged on about who are either managing big clubs and on the brink of the sack, managing small shitty clubs or have no jobs at all.

How does THAT coffee smell?

It is now crystal clear that it is, indeed, as huge a gamble as I feared. Apologies if the facts upset you. If you think Hughes is now proven because Wolves hit the crossbar and David Nugent is shit then you are completely totally deluded and should return to happy clappy land and leave this thread to the grown ups.

Cheers.

[DoomMerchant]

Cheers.

honestly, i was fine up to that point.

Cheers.

[Beefymcfc]

I actually applaud Platini for trying to do something about it, but he is wrong to aim it at clubs who are running without debt or the threat of of going under. The alarmist would say that this is vital for our future, whereas I say we are the future. No debt, no financial issues, no problems; just good old City becoming the 'Best Team in the Land, in all the World'. And there's no stopping that, whichever way you look at it!

It's not really aimed at us, we're just the flavour of the month. The real problem is that wage inflation was encouraged to make the strong clubs much stronger. They (mostly) have that now. Their new enemy is the overpaid players, but they can't admit that now, can they?

The big clubs want to limit their own spending so the owners can get back to making money. They don't want to make it a completely closed shop, just closed enough that they'll be less worried than they are now.

I agree and disagree there mate. Yes, the owners want to make money on their investment which is quite understandable, however at the same time they keep over-spending on that budget putting them in the same position year on year. United reportedly recorded a loss of 21 mil last year whilst Chelsea recorded an even bigger loss of 66 mil, which seems wierd how they could back the proposal, unless they have already set the wheels in motion with UEFA to get themselves within the guidelines (which we would find very hard to do). Notice how we haven't heard too much of renewed contracts from any of the top English teams (except for Terry) and that at the same time, they have not renewed players or spent any real money that they've got in from transfers. To prove this:

United: 11 players out and 5 in (Net profit of around 60 mil as well as saving massively on wages)
Chelsea: 16 out, 5 in (Net loss of around 20 mil but again saving massively on wages)
Liverpool: 14 out, 5 in (Near Zero balance but once again, saving massively on wages)
Arsenal: 10 out, 1 in (Net 40 mil profit and as usual, save massively on wages)

This goes to prove your theory mate about owners wanting to make a profit, but also that all the top 4 of the top English clubs are doing it at the same time (which seems to much of a coincidence for me). The only way Platini and the current cartel can get at us, is if they go down the lines they are drawing up, but as I've mentioned in previous posts, I think they will find it very hard to implement due to some of the big clubs abroad, and lesser clubs like ourselves, forcing the broadcasters (via viewers) to suspend their plans.

Imagine in 3 years time when we have the new generation of Kaka/Messi's of this world, and they are not aloud to play in the major tournaments?

[Original Dub]

This is a very real threat and something I have been worried about for some time. In fact I was branded as impatient and stupid, around the turn of the year, for wanting to see more urgency in getting us to the top and it is the reason I believed it was too risky to wait and see whether Hughes could make the large step up in class he was/is being asked to and wanted to see a proven manager in place asap. A judgement based on percentages and probablities and one which I stand by no matter what the eventual outcome is with Hughes. The naive minds have now woken up and smelled the coffee. Thankfully the management of the club already twigged and brought forward player investement intended for the next 3 years. So all is not yet lost.

Soc, you state that the reason you wanted Hughes out was because of this and that the naive minds have woken and smelled the coffee? Well excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it these Naive Minds who actually had trust in the management and had smelt the coffee, had bacon butties and caught the worm as they say; unlike you who were sleeping!

You have also stated that the management have twigged, so does this mean you are actually giving Hughes credit for the insight he has shown and credit to the people who actually stood by the clubs management decision?

This is not a dig at you mate, but when you come over 'I told you so' when in reality it is those who supported Hughes continuation in post, then I seem to get a little confused!?!

Sorry, but the actual fact is that Hughes still remains unproven. Three narrow wins, playing fairly poorly, against three of the poorest sides in the division in no more than "so far so good." Long, long way to go before we find out whether the huge gamble of keeping Hughes has paid off. The percentage call would definitely have been to recruit a manager with proven success. The time constraints I was eluding to earlier in the year remain. The events since just prove the basis of my analysis was correct. Those who supported Hughes "continuity" are yet to be proven right about ANYTHING. In fact their arguments at the time about slow building and organic change have been absolutely blown away by the actions of Hughes himself!

Mate you're always banging on about this HUGE gamble in keeping Hughes. Now you're talking about how poorly the last 9 points have been earned. Its pathetic and so is your constant preaching that you spotted the way the world workd before the rest of us.

You want gambles? Try Scolari, Van Gaal, Zico, Mancini and all the others you banged on about who are either managing big clubs and on the brink of the sack, managing small shitty clubs or have no jobs at all.

How does THAT coffee smell?

It is now crystal clear that it is, indeed, as huge a gamble as I feared. Apologies if the facts upset you. If you think Hughes is now proven because Wolves hit the crossbar and David Nugent is shit then you are completely totally deluded and should return to happy clappy land and leave this thread to the grown ups.

Cheers.

What, another prophecy you made coming true? Please!

No matter how you paint it, its 9 points from 9 with no goals conceded.

How does that compare to your 'saviours' I listed above?

Very very favourably, just like I predicted.

Ciao.

[Socrates]

What, another prophecy you made coming true? Please!

No matter how you paint it, its 9 points from 9 with no goals conceded.

How does that compare to your 'saviours' I listed above?

Very very favourably, just like I predicted.

Ciao.

Very fortunate not to concede 2 goals and only have 5 points. Against 3 poor teams. Way too soon to draw any conclusions. And as for the "list" you are including managers, such as Zico, that I had advocated long before the takeover, when we couldn't manage to attract world class managers. Now please list the trophies won by Mark Hughes as a manger and tell me why he is such a good choice and so much more qualified than the 2 managers I have promoted since the takeover - namely Mancini or Rijkaard?

[lythamblue]

Firstly, this won't ever happen because there is far too much commercial stuff to unravel and too many Clubs would have an opinion.

If it did, the following from 'Abu Dhabi' is just one of many easily thought out suggestions which could be brought into play and would tie the courts up for years as to the legitimacy and practicality.

Eh, Al-Jazira will buy all City Players and loan them back on a free.

300M profit and no wages to pay..

Also, we could have whatever income we need just by increasing the amounts we get sponsored by companies which are also privately owned by the Sheik. It would actually suit them from an international tax point of of view ..... any of the Sheik's businesses which were having a good year could all of a sudden decide to sponsor our stadium for 25 mill or even our corner flags and Carrington tea ladies for a similar amount of money just to cook the books in which ever way Eufa wanted to read them.

If that wasn't enough, the Sheik could decide to have his own box for his family (or even a chosen list of charities) ...... and the Club could charge him £50 mill a year for it.

You see, give me another 10 mins and I could come up with dozens of similar suggestions as to how our income can be inflated whichever way we need it to be.

Good debate material ..... but don't worry about it.

What's far more worrying is reducing the amount of EPL clubs from 4 to 3 (and maybe even lower) or this 6 + 5 rule they are talking about .

[Ted Hughes]

I'm not worried about the 6+5 rule. I think we'll fare better than anyone else with it.

Don't think it's a good thing for the England team or English players though.

[lythamblue]

I'm not worried about the 6+5 rule. I think we'll fare better than anyone else with it.

Don't think it's a good thing for the England team or English players though.

True, especially with our latest 'English' signings. In fact it might even suit us as we could buy whoever we wanted for the EPL to keep us in the Champs League and then buy the best of English to play in it.

Anyway, this could all end up bollox anyway. Football is not a virgin sport or industry and it is already too well commercially evolved and supported for the likes of Platini or Fifa to change it too much.

Despite the fact that they control it's administration, the only thing that has changed football over the recent years .... has been MONEY .... not them!!!

[Ted Hughes]

I'm not worried about the 6+5 rule. I think we'll fare better than anyone else with it.

Don't think it's a good thing for the England team or English players though.

True, especially with our latest 'English' signings. In fact it might even suit us as we could buy whoever we wanted for the EPL to keep us in the Champs League and then buy the best of English to play in it.

Anyway, this could all end up bollox anyway. Football is not a virgin sport or industry and it is already too well commercially evolved and supported for the likes of Platini or Fifa to change it too much.

Despite the fact that they control it's administration, the only thing that has changed football over the recent years .... has been MONEY .... not them!!!

Platini & Blatter are a pair of tossers & poodles of the top European clubs. They'll find that they can't come up with a piece of legislation that cocks up City without hurting their mates so if they do anything at all, it'll be some watered down piece of crap.

If they do anything that damages those clubs they'll both get kicked out before it happens anyway, or end up sleeping with the fishes.