Red Rom to sabotage for City

[Original Dub]

Just a small admin point - all this Hughes discussion over the last few pages - should it (or could it) not be on another thread??

This has been a good thread - discussing an important point which could / may not have major impact for our club's future - would just like to keep that discussion going and worry that this is getting lost

Apologies, that's my fault. I was merely trying to frame my comments in reference to the effect of these proposals on the club as a whole and to do so I wanted to try and explain that this isn't about being negative but realistic and wide awake to dangers. There is a false impression amongst many that I'm a naturally negative poster - which is historically just not true! - and my position could only be fully explained by referencing the fact that my pro-change postings early in the year were in fact based on these very fears. I'm also explaining why we now HAVE to get there with Hughes and that change is no longer an option and people must keep their objectivity if things go wrong.

To my relief we have seen a new urgency from Hughes and Khaldoon and the apparent complacency that was scaring me back then has been overtaken by a realisation of our predicament and some very firm action in the transfer market. I agree there is now a major chance this can be translated into results on the pitch and get us the ECL qualification we now desperately need to secure if the future is to be truely blue.

My fault too. I just didn't want to start a new thread about a few comments I strongly disagreed with. It's only ok to start a Mark Hughes thread when we're not winning... everyone knows that!

On topic, in response to your post above Socs - you say to your 'relief' we have seen 'a new urgency from hughes and Kaldoon'. I don't that's the case at all. What you've seen is the first genuine opportunity that the club has had to build ourselves into a top side. That cannot be done with 8 hours to go on deadline day and cannot be done in the notoriously difficult January transfer window.

I'm quite confident that this was ALWAYS the plan. Its just that you make sound like they are trying to find out how to build a footballing super power willy nilly and stumbling to each step as they feel the need to. That they just realised that they should build quickly given these cicumstances, which was something you saw before they did? I'm sorry mate, I think you're a very good poster but in almost every thread you do try to proclaim that you saw situations devloping before the rest of us... shit, you're seeing things before the hierarchy of the club.

Sorry, but that's BOLLOX.

[Dameerto]

The biggest friend we could make is Sky. Pretty much the only ally we would need.

[ronk]

The biggest friend we could make is Sky. Pretty much the only ally we would need.

SKY would want us to almost get kicked out of Europe.

[Socrates]

Just a small admin point - all this Hughes discussion over the last few pages - should it (or could it) not be on another thread??

This has been a good thread - discussing an important point which could / may not have major impact for our club's future - would just like to keep that discussion going and worry that this is getting lost

Apologies, that's my fault. I was merely trying to frame my comments in reference to the effect of these proposals on the club as a whole and to do so I wanted to try and explain that this isn't about being negative but realistic and wide awake to dangers. There is a false impression amongst many that I'm a naturally negative poster - which is historically just not true! - and my position could only be fully explained by referencing the fact that my pro-change postings early in the year were in fact based on these very fears. I'm also explaining why we now HAVE to get there with Hughes and that change is no longer an option and people must keep their objectivity if things go wrong.

To my relief we have seen a new urgency from Hughes and Khaldoon and the apparent complacency that was scaring me back then has been overtaken by a realisation of our predicament and some very firm action in the transfer market. I agree there is now a major chance this can be translated into results on the pitch and get us the ECL qualification we now desperately need to secure if the future is to be truely blue.

My fault too. I just didn't want to start a new thread about a few comments I strongly disagreed with. It's only ok to start a Mark Hughes thread when we're not winning... everyone knows that!

On topic, in response to your post above Socs - you say to your 'relief' we have seen 'a new urgency from hughes and Kaldoon'. I don't that's the case at all. What you've seen is the first genuine opportunity that the club has had to build ourselves into a top side. That cannot be done with 8 hours to go on deadline day and cannot be done in the notoriously difficult January transfer window.

I'm quite confident that this was ALWAYS the plan. Its just that you make sound like they are trying to find out how to build a footballing super power willy nilly and stumbling to each step as they feel the need to. That they just realised that they should build quickly given these cicumstances, which was something you saw before they did? I'm sorry mate, I think you're a very good poster but in almost every thread you do try to proclaim that you saw situations devloping before the rest of us... shit, you're seeing things before the hierarchy of the club.

Sorry, but that's BOLLOX.

You are saying that Mark Hughes is talking BOLLOX then as he has gone on record himself saying we have brought forward our spending and have done in two windows what was originally intended to be done in four or five! A few months ago we had direct quotes from Khaldoon that were talking in terms of five years to achieve anything. No way was this the plan! And I'm not saying they were stumbling as such, just feeling their way. New to the industry, only to be expected - they are businessmen not gods and having a rookie chief exec in at the same time there were bound to be some teething problems. I'm not criticising them, just being honest about the facts.

Same as I'm honest about our progress to date, modest but welcome. Hoping to see much more very soon...

[Socrates]

Socs,
You are right regarding the threat we pose to the European based cartel clubs. I should have said that I don't think they see us as a BIGGER threat than the one posed by the present English Top 4. The present Top 4 have always been able to generate funding ( mainly by increasing their debt) and have never had a problem with inflating players' wages whenever it suited their needs.
I can see positives for the European based cartel clubs in dealing with us. Transfers will be paid promptly and they know they are dealing with a club who has a stable financial base.
If the rags and L'Pool start to fade and fail strengthen, it will make their product less of an attraction . As City strengthen our attractiveness will increase.
You are right when you assert that we MUST get our books balanced...that is a big Must.
I also think money talks and it will be easier than you think to attract allies.

I'm not convinced at all John. We are a much bigger threat to them as our wages our higher than any previous English club and we have already shown we are a threat to even Real in the transfer market by being in there with a bigger and earlier bid on a major target of their's, Kaka. I think money is indeed talking but it is talking us into trouble not out of it!

How did that one work out for Real?

We've now spent over £100m this summer so we've proven that we would have been able to back up a bid for Kaka. There isn't really any evidence that the price that Real paid was inflated by us. Instead we started the debate about the player leaving and lubricated his path out of there. Real didn't really get any abuse for their role.

If anything we spurred Madrid and Barcelona into action.

It was a warning shot across their bows and they know full well that if we had been a year further along in our development we might have beaten them to a major target. They will be taking the threat very seriously, until now they have been the biggest club in the world in terms of spending power. You honestly think they will take the threat to that status lightly?

[Original Dub]

Just a small admin point - all this Hughes discussion over the last few pages - should it (or could it) not be on another thread??

This has been a good thread - discussing an important point which could / may not have major impact for our club's future - would just like to keep that discussion going and worry that this is getting lost

Apologies, that's my fault. I was merely trying to frame my comments in reference to the effect of these proposals on the club as a whole and to do so I wanted to try and explain that this isn't about being negative but realistic and wide awake to dangers. There is a false impression amongst many that I'm a naturally negative poster - which is historically just not true! - and my position could only be fully explained by referencing the fact that my pro-change postings early in the year were in fact based on these very fears. I'm also explaining why we now HAVE to get there with Hughes and that change is no longer an option and people must keep their objectivity if things go wrong.

To my relief we have seen a new urgency from Hughes and Khaldoon and the apparent complacency that was scaring me back then has been overtaken by a realisation of our predicament and some very firm action in the transfer market. I agree there is now a major chance this can be translated into results on the pitch and get us the ECL qualification we now desperately need to secure if the future is to be truely blue.

My fault too. I just didn't want to start a new thread about a few comments I strongly disagreed with. It's only ok to start a Mark Hughes thread when we're not winning... everyone knows that!

On topic, in response to your post above Socs - you say to your 'relief' we have seen 'a new urgency from hughes and Kaldoon'. I don't that's the case at all. What you've seen is the first genuine opportunity that the club has had to build ourselves into a top side. That cannot be done with 8 hours to go on deadline day and cannot be done in the notoriously difficult January transfer window.

I'm quite confident that this was ALWAYS the plan. Its just that you make sound like they are trying to find out how to build a footballing super power willy nilly and stumbling to each step as they feel the need to. That they just realised that they should build quickly given these cicumstances, which was something you saw before they did? I'm sorry mate, I think you're a very good poster but in almost every thread you do try to proclaim that you saw situations devloping before the rest of us... shit, you're seeing things before the hierarchy of the club.

Sorry, but that's BOLLOX.

You are saying that Mark Hughes is talking BOLLOX then as he has gone on record himself saying we have brought forward our spending and have done in two windows what was originally intended to be done in four or five! A few months ago we had direct quotes from Khaldoon that were talking in terms of five years to achieve anything. No way was this the plan! And I'm not saying they were stumbling as such, just feeling their way. New to the industry, only to be expected - they are businessmen not gods and having a rookie chief exec in at the same time there were bound to be some teething problems. I'm not criticising them, just being honest about the facts.

Same as I'm honest about our progress to date, modest but welcome. Hoping to see much more very soon...

What they say and what they do is not the same thing and for a very valid reason. Hughes said it could take 4 windows to become genuine challengers. It was also stated that we wouldn't be spending a huge amount of money this summer. Which I think is the correct message to send out. The shooting off at the mouth that Al Fahim did in the immediate aftermath of the takeover did us no favours and it was obvious that they were going to slow perception and expectation down as much as possible.

Of course if the right players became available all in one go, we were going to buy them, surely you don't think its something they decided to do now instead of waiting? Why the fuck would they wait?

No mate, this isn't from a sense of urgency due to any recent speculation. These people wanted success as fast as possible, structured in the right way and that's exactly what they are doing and have been doing. Was it Toure that said a deal was on the cards since Oct? Didn't the initial Kaka talks begin around that time? When did we talk to Villa/Buffon's agents? The Terry bid was in there too, not to mention Berbatov and a few others.

The plan was to get to the top as soon as possible.

NOTHING has, nor will, change that.

[Socrates]

Just a small admin point - all this Hughes discussion over the last few pages - should it (or could it) not be on another thread??

This has been a good thread - discussing an important point which could / may not have major impact for our club's future - would just like to keep that discussion going and worry that this is getting lost

Apologies, that's my fault. I was merely trying to frame my comments in reference to the effect of these proposals on the club as a whole and to do so I wanted to try and explain that this isn't about being negative but realistic and wide awake to dangers. There is a false impression amongst many that I'm a naturally negative poster - which is historically just not true! - and my position could only be fully explained by referencing the fact that my pro-change postings early in the year were in fact based on these very fears. I'm also explaining why we now HAVE to get there with Hughes and that change is no longer an option and people must keep their objectivity if things go wrong.

To my relief we have seen a new urgency from Hughes and Khaldoon and the apparent complacency that was scaring me back then has been overtaken by a realisation of our predicament and some very firm action in the transfer market. I agree there is now a major chance this can be translated into results on the pitch and get us the ECL qualification we now desperately need to secure if the future is to be truely blue.

My fault too. I just didn't want to start a new thread about a few comments I strongly disagreed with. It's only ok to start a Mark Hughes thread when we're not winning... everyone knows that!

On topic, in response to your post above Socs - you say to your 'relief' we have seen 'a new urgency from hughes and Kaldoon'. I don't that's the case at all. What you've seen is the first genuine opportunity that the club has had to build ourselves into a top side. That cannot be done with 8 hours to go on deadline day and cannot be done in the notoriously difficult January transfer window.

I'm quite confident that this was ALWAYS the plan. Its just that you make sound like they are trying to find out how to build a footballing super power willy nilly and stumbling to each step as they feel the need to. That they just realised that they should build quickly given these cicumstances, which was something you saw before they did? I'm sorry mate, I think you're a very good poster but in almost every thread you do try to proclaim that you saw situations devloping before the rest of us... shit, you're seeing things before the hierarchy of the club.

Sorry, but that's BOLLOX.

You are saying that Mark Hughes is talking BOLLOX then as he has gone on record himself saying we have brought forward our spending and have done in two windows what was originally intended to be done in four or five! A few months ago we had direct quotes from Khaldoon that were talking in terms of five years to achieve anything. No way was this the plan! And I'm not saying they were stumbling as such, just feeling their way. New to the industry, only to be expected - they are businessmen not gods and having a rookie chief exec in at the same time there were bound to be some teething problems. I'm not criticising them, just being honest about the facts.

Same as I'm honest about our progress to date, modest but welcome. Hoping to see much more very soon...

What they say and what they do is not the same thing and for a very valid reason. Hughes said it could take 4 windows to become genuine challengers. It was also stated that we wouldn't be spending a huge amount of money this summer. Which I think is the correct message to send out. The shooting off at the mouth that Al Fahim did in the immediate aftermath of the takeover did us no favours and it was obvious that they were going to slow perception and expectation down as much as possible.

Of course if the right players became available all in one go, we were going to buy them, surely you don't think its something they decided to do now instead of waiting? Why the fuck would they wait?

No mate, this isn't from a sense of urgency due to any recent speculation. These people wanted success as fast as possible, structured in the right way and that's exactly what they are doing and have been doing. Was it Toure that said a deal was on the cards since Oct? Didn't the initial Kaka talks begin around that time? When did we talk to Villa/Buffon's agents? The Terry bid was in there too, not to mention Berbatov and a few others.

The plan was to get to the top as soon as possible.

NOTHING has, nor will, change that.

Ok. Your version is correct. Hughes and Khaldoon are liars. The plan for organic change but incorporating a marquee signing for marketing purposes if possible was completely made up. It never happened.

[Original Dub]

Ok. Your version is correct. Hughes and Khaldoon are liars. The plan for organic change but incorporating a marquee signing for marketing purposes if possible was completely made up. It never happened.

No mate, you are dead right of course. Everything you have predicted has come true.

Has it fuck.

Are you trying to say that if Berbatov had agreed to come to city we wouldn't have signed Robinho even though we agreed the fee? Are you saying that we didn't go for Kaka and Terry, amongst others, in the same Jan window?

You honestly believe that we only want world superstar footballers for marketing reasons. How very very silly.

We'll go for top players if they fit the squad and become available.

If you honestly think we only ever wanted to sign one superstar per window for marketing reasons you're even more deluded than I thought you were earlier in the thread, when you tried to proclaim that our hierarchy have only now caught up your way of thinking.

Come on mate, a bit of perspective here. Our hierarchy haven't been scared into having a very busy and successful transfer window, don't be so ridiculous.

You seem to want to show a fearful and 'genuinely concerned' angle for every major decision the club make, whilst saying things like "just as I had feared".... "this now appears to be the case"...

Everything is going according to plan and there is NOTHING to suggest that it isn't.

[ronk]

It was a warning shot across their bows and they know full well that if we had been a year further along in our development we might have beaten them to a major target. They will be taking the threat very seriously, until now they have been the biggest club in the world in terms of spending power. You honestly think they will take the threat to that status lightly?

Once again they're the biggest club in the world in terms of spending power. We haven't stopped them signing a single target. All our signings are coming from within the Premier League where most players are available at a price right now.

We didn't inflate Kaka. We didn't the Ronaldo price. Benzema was well within our price range but we weren't within a shot. The other big names who didn't move like Aguero and Villa are still at their clubs (and always an option in the future).

Now there's a chance that their super-spree is fuelled by the knowledge that they may later sign up to a spending limit. Mostly, I'd say that they aren't particularly worried about us. One team can't stop them buying all the good players. A squad can only be a certain size.

[Socrates]

It was a warning shot across their bows and they know full well that if we had been a year further along in our development we might have beaten them to a major target. They will be taking the threat very seriously, until now they have been the biggest club in the world in terms of spending power. You honestly think they will take the threat to that status lightly?

Once again they're the biggest club in the world in terms of spending power. We haven't stopped them signing a single target. All our signings are coming from within the Premier League where most players are available at a price right now.

We didn't inflate Kaka. We didn't the Ronaldo price. Benzema was well within our price range but we weren't within a shot. The other big names who didn't move like Aguero and Villa are still at their clubs (and always an option in the future).

Now there's a chance that their super-spree is fuelled by the knowledge that they may later sign up to a spending limit. Mostly, I'd say that they aren't particularly worried about us. One team can't stop them buying all the good players. A squad can only be a certain size.

No they aren't. And they surely know that? They are still number one for combined spending and pulling power but not spending power alone and with any amount of success we will overtake them. We are their biggest threat in the medium and long term. They are not likely to have missed that fact!

[Ted Hughes]

Ted,
I posted earlier that I thought any threat was being generated from within the present English top four and that they were using their cohorts in the cartel to assist them politically.
I also added that I cannot see that we pose any threat to the European based clubs in the cartel. In fact, for them it may be beneficial to deal with City...a club that can pay its way...rather than the present four who have major debt problems.

With regard to the funding of a breakaway Euro Super league, it would be not only self funding, but a very lucrative product to sell on the World market. The World TV rights alone would generate massive amounts of money through Worldwide sales. TV audiences and marketting of merchandise. Such a major league containing the European giants, playing each other on a weekly basis could be the football product that broke the USA market.

Though I see this as a serious threat and I see our weakness as the new kids/threat on the block, there are steps we can take to overcome it. The most important is to make allies. I do not feel it is inevitable that we will be shut out.

In order to succeed with a European super league, they have to bring in money from tv. Our owners are already involved in television in various parts of the world plus we became involved with the media while Frank was here. We've been very busy in the last few years & imo we're already far too well connected to be pushed aside. That's without taking into consideration the further manoevres our people will be involved with now & in the future. I just don't see this as a problem. We will be leaders not followers in this.

The future imo & the real money to be made will be from individual clubs selling their own games to tv companies & individuals around the world via the net, mobiles whatever. I'll bet our people will already be involved in the distribution of that. They're way ahead of everyone on everything & that will be no exception. Frank was already working on it, so Cook will be right on the money with it.

[john68]

Ted,
I am well aware that our owners are powerful men in financial and global terms. I don't know sufficient about them to confirm, deny or argue about what their interests are and I trust your comments implicitly.

I am only dealing with what is before me and with the information I have or have gleaned from a variety of sources, principally from announcements made by City, UeFA, other clubs and conversations with a variety of people who have greater knowledge than I.

It is quite obvious that we are under attack and will be in the future. It is quite clear too that there are football interests that would like to exclude us from joining the elite clubs and it is also clear that City are aware of this and have taken some steps to negate any attack or possible exclusion. I do know that it is a serious threat to our future progress.
I am also aware that our continued progress, if we are successful, will severely damage, particularly, the English top 4, possibly to the point of financial extinction.

What I do not know, is the ability of City to cope with any attack and continue to progress in the face of it and beat off any opposition to our interests. Though we are obviously well connected at the top, we seem to be friendless in the football World.

[Grob]

I trust that cleverer men than me and you and the entire collective of mancityfans.net are at the helm and will unleash armies of lawyers, accountants and men with thick moneystuffed envelopes to ensure that even if it comes to fruition, it will not touch us.

I'd assumed this also

[mcfc1632]

Ted,
I am well aware that our owners are powerful men in financial and global terms. I don't know sufficient about them to confirm, deny or argue about what their interests are and I trust your comments implicitly.

I am only dealing with what is before me and with the information I have or have gleaned from a variety of sources, principally from announcements made by City, UeFA, other clubs and conversations with a variety of people who have greater knowledge than I.

It is quite obvious that we are under attack and will be in the future. It is quite clear too that there are football interests that would like to exclude us from joining the elite clubs and it is also clear that City are aware of this and have taken some steps to negate any attack or possible exclusion. I do know that it is a serious threat to our future progress.
I am also aware that our continued progress, if we are successful, will severely damage, particularly, the English top 4, possibly to the point of financial extinction.

What I do not know, is the ability of City to cope with any attack and continue to progress in the face of it and beat off any opposition to our interests. Though we are obviously well connected at the top, we seem to be friendless in the football World.

What a very good post - we all need to stop contemplating the intricacies of how revenue can be input to the club (although important) and other such obvious thoughts (that is in a way denial) that come from this 'initiative' and recognise it for what it is - an orchestrated ATTACK from self-interest groups with major motivation from 'stopping' us - we need to become friends with influential parties through - using our financial clout - having a dialogue with top euro clubs that make them think they are better off with us that the scum - and some straight forward 'sucking up to Uefa' - whatever is required

[Ted Hughes]

Ted,
I am well aware that our owners are powerful men in financial and global terms. I don't know sufficient about them to confirm, deny or argue about what their interests are and I trust your comments implicitly.

I am only dealing with what is before me and with the information I have or have gleaned from a variety of sources, principally from announcements made by City, UeFA, other clubs and conversations with a variety of people who have greater knowledge than I.

It is quite obvious that we are under attack and will be in the future. It is quite clear too that there are football interests that would like to exclude us from joining the elite clubs and it is also clear that City are aware of this and have taken some steps to negate any attack or possible exclusion. I do know that it is a serious threat to our future progress.
I am also aware that our continued progress, if we are successful, will severely damage, particularly, the English top 4, possibly to the point of financial extinction.

What I do not know, is the ability of City to cope with any attack and continue to progress in the face of it and beat off any opposition to our interests. Though we are obviously well connected at the top, we seem to be friendless in the football World.

Well Neil Warnock likes us.

The thing is, even if they were to band together to try & stop us, it'll still take them years to do it. By that time the financial situation will have changed one way or another & if their fears are realised, we'd already be in such a powerful position that it'd be better to be with us than against us. It wouldn't be easy to form a breakaway league & we'd know all about it well before it happened. We could even start our own & offer more money! I just think they'll have to cut their cloth accordingly, learn how to survive without guarenteed chumps league & put up with us. Judging by this transfer window, they've already realised that.

[mcfc1632]

I trust that cleverer men than me and you and the entire collective of mancityfans.net are at the helm and will unleash armies of lawyers, accountants and men with thick moneystuffed envelopes to ensure that even if it comes to fruition, it will not touch us.

I'd assumed this also

Thankfully for us this is very much the case - we have a management team that is in every way highly professional

These guys are the real deal and are on a strategic plan - and well able to handle this - but the fact is that the 'opposition' are marshalling in ways they have not had to before - but our guys are more than up to it

All more the reason the reason that I think that all fans should be behind them 4 square - not finding opportunities to nit pick like some do for really facile reasons

[ronk]

No they aren't. And they surely know that? They are still number one for combined spending and pulling power but not spending power alone and with any amount of success we will overtake them. We are their biggest threat in the medium and long term. They are not likely to have missed that fact!

I don't agree. Chelsea never really made it to being much of a threat to them in the transfer market. They bought Makelele because Madrid dropped the ball. Chelsea never really managed to lure a top player from another superclub until they bought Shevchenko. We all know now why Milan relented.

Real didn't have to break a sweat to get Robben out of Chelsea.

It was only after Madrid looked at swapping Robinho (and Chelsea had his ex international-coach) that they seriously considered selling him.

We've failed to sign any big names from abroad who weren't ready for a quick sale. Even this year Tevez was on the way out of the scum if possible, Adebayor had tried to get out of Arsenal a year earlier and had seen his relationship with the fans deteriorate, even Toure wasn't speaking to Gallas and one of them had to go.

Real Madrid know that we might manage to mess up a deal or two for them. Overall effect won't be large. We'll do more damage to the top4 in the prem and we'll stretch them financially at a time when they're pushed for cash. This year we've directly weakened the squads of Arsenal, Chelsea and the scum. But probably boosted their finances to the point that Arsenal may have fended off interest from Barcelona over Fabregas.

The scum won a CL final and then were runners up. Didn't help them hold onto Ronaldo. It didn't count for anything when they were trying to sign Benzema and it wasn't enough to get Ribery. They've really only ever made one big signing from a top tier club: Veron. Other than that they've been the big fish in the small pond.

If we have the money then why haven't we broken the fee we paid for Robinho? There are players out there, and it takes more than simply being in the CL or having won the prem.

[Socrates]

No they aren't. And they surely know that? They are still number one for combined spending and pulling power but not spending power alone and with any amount of success we will overtake them. We are their biggest threat in the medium and long term. They are not likely to have missed that fact!

I don't agree. Chelsea never really made it to being much of a threat to them in the transfer market. They bought Makelele because Madrid dropped the ball. Chelsea never really managed to lure a top player from another superclub until they bought Shevchenko. We all know now why Milan relented.

Real didn't have to break a sweat to get Robben out of Chelsea.

It was only after Madrid looked at swapping Robinho (and Chelsea had his ex international-coach) that they seriously considered selling him.

We've failed to sign any big names from abroad who weren't ready for a quick sale. Even this year Tevez was on the way out of the scum if possible, Adebayor had tried to get out of Arsenal a year earlier and had seen his relationship with the fans deteriorate, even Toure wasn't speaking to Gallas and one of them had to go.

Real Madrid know that we might manage to mess up a deal or two for them. Overall effect won't be large. We'll do more damage to the top4 in the prem and we'll stretch them financially at a time when they're pushed for cash. This year we've directly weakened the squads of Arsenal, Chelsea and the scum. But probably boosted their finances to the point that Arsenal may have fended off interest from Barcelona over Fabregas.

The scum won a CL final and then were runners up. Didn't help them hold onto Ronaldo. It didn't count for anything when they were trying to sign Benzema and it wasn't enough to get Ribery. They've really only ever made one big signing from a top tier club: Veron. Other than that they've been the big fish in the small pond.

If we have the money then why haven't we broken the fee we paid for Robinho? There are players out there, and it takes more than simply being in the CL or having won the prem.

pointless continuing this. You are talking about the past and present and I am talking about the future. You obviously haven't grasped how much more money and potential we have than Chelsea so let's leave it there.

[ronk]

pointless continuing this. You are talking about the past and present and I am talking about the future. You obviously haven't grasped how much more money and potential we have than Chelsea so let's leave it there.

I was using examples from the recent past to support my analysis.

Money can buy success. The future is great for us. But it will take a lot more than a bit of success before we're matching Real Madrid and Barcelona as a draw. We'd need to establish ourselves as one of the all time great teams to make a serious dent in their image.

It's an exciting time for our club, we've come a long way and this is only the tip of the iceberg. But we have no real reason to believe that we'll be the beneficiaries of limitless amounts of money and ambition. Chelsea sacked their manager for finishing 2nd the year Arsenal went unbeaten in the league (and closing the gap as the season went on) and losing in the CL semi final. Mourinho's failure to win the CL cost him his job despite winning back to back prems.

You can put much of it down to the single mindedness and patience of our owner and the capriciousness and impatience of Chelsea's but we don't seem to be on a path to throw a billion or two at a goal of becoming the greatest team in the world. We seem to more modest ambitions and the rate of spending should slow somewhat.

It makes sense because there aren't really that many players (left) around who are worth going for world record bids on at the moment.

[gillie]

pointless continuing this. You are talking about the past and present and I am talking about the future. You obviously haven't grasped how much more money and potential we have than Chelsea so let's leave it there.

I was using examples from the recent past to support my analysis.

Money can buy success. The future is great for us. But it will take a lot more than a bit of success before we're matching Real Madrid and Barcelona as a draw. We'd need to establish ourselves as one of the all time great teams to make a serious dent in their image.

It's an exciting time for our club, we've come a long way and this is only the tip of the iceberg. But we have no real reason to believe that we'll be the beneficiaries of limitless amounts of money and ambition. Chelsea sacked their manager for finishing 2nd the year Arsenal went unbeaten in the league (and closing the gap as the season went on) and losing in the CL semi final. Mourinho's failure to win the CL cost him his job despite winning back to back prems.

You can put much of it down to the single mindedness and patience of our owner and the capriciousness and impatience of Chelsea's but we don't seem to be on a path to throw a billion or two at a goal of becoming the greatest team in the world. We seem to more modest ambitions and the rate of spending should slow somewhat.

It makes sense because there aren't really that many players (left) around who are worth going for world record bids on at the moment.

I get what you are saying Ronk we have all the cash but the shelves in the shops are empty.So we need to build from within so to speak and build a dynasty please correct me if i have got you wrong.